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 oldzoggy wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

It's a green tide formation

The green tide formation wished it could be this monster.
They are all fearles, have hatred, all have power swords, reroll saves in close combat and can be all 2++ if you add draigo.

"Hey, what are you doing with that bucket?"

"It's for my close combat phase. Too many dice to roll by hand, the bucket's faster."

"(expletive deleted)"

 MarsNZ wrote:
Another C:IA thread derailed into a SoB cry thread. This time only on page 1, impressive.

at no point was anyone sobbing.

Lol fair enough but I am more interested in getting it for the Inquisition and the possibility to field an allied unit of Grey Knights, Deathwatch, and maybe some Sisters depending. Anyways, in regards to the Inquisition, does anyone know if the FW Inquisitor Solomon Lok is mentioned or how he would be affected with this? And how did the Acolytes change exactly in regards to their wargear, as I am aware their Stats didn't change much at all.

Waaaghpower wrote:

Warbands are now a formation instead of a unit, with a few noteworthy changes:
First, you have to include a unit of Acolytes, meaning you have at least 3 guardsman statlines in your Warband.
Second, you buy the other types of guys by the unit, instead of by the model, usually limited to one unit of each. This means that if you want any of them you have to take at least two crusaders (but up to 10,) at least 2 DCA, at least 3 Arco-flagellants, you can only bring one Priest or Astropath, etc. (Jaekero and Daemonhosts are 0-6, so you can take them in variable quantities.)

I must have missed the clarification on this... there was some discussion as to whether it was 0-1 units or 0-1 models. The wording was a little funky, and "unit" was only used in reference to Acolytes. Did we get a definitive answer at some point? Having multiple DCAs and Crusaders is obviously preferable, so I'm liking the way you explained it... hope it's true!

 Ironwolf45 wrote:
Lol fair enough but I am more interested in getting it for the Inquisition and the possibility to field an allied unit of Grey Knights, Deathwatch, and maybe some Sisters depending. Anyways, in regards to the Inquisition, does anyone know if the FW Inquisitor Solomon Lok is mentioned or how he would be affected with this? And how did the Acolytes change exactly in regards to their wargear, as I am aware their Stats didn't change much at all.

Mostly their armor just got cheaper. Carapace is now 2ppm, and Power Armor is now 5ppm, making psuedo-Marines only 10ppm, and making psuedo-veterans only 6ppm. Solomon Lok is not mentioned at all. The other Acolyte gear is exactly the same.

GW: "Hey guys buy this book with unneeded, unwanted nerfs for an interesting, not cheesy army respectful of the old style of 40k. Also, we removed an iconic character from an already controversial army list. Please buy it, we need it as an experiment for the AoSification of 40k that you guys are totally going to enjoy. Thanks".

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
GW: "Hey guys buy this book with unneeded, unwanted nerfs for an interesting, not cheesy army respectful of the old style of 40k. Also, we removed an iconic character from an already controversial army list. Please buy it, we need it as an experiment for the AoSification of 40k that you guys are totally going to enjoy. Thanks".

LOL

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
GW: "Hey guys buy this book with unneeded, unwanted nerfs for an interesting, not cheesy army respectful of the old style of 40k. Also, we removed an iconic character from an already controversial army list. Please buy it, we need it as an experiment for the AoSification of 40k that you guys are totally going to enjoy. Thanks".

Pouncey: "Hi GW, thank you for your helpful suggestion to simply abandon the tabletop game now instead of waiting until my army gets the axe during the AoS40k 'tidying' of minor armies. It's very nice of you to be so up front about it for once, as all that false hope and empty promises were starting to wear thin."

Please, somebody, explain to me: What are all these damned nerfs you're talking about? The cheesy, unfluffy psyker batteries that weren't even an intended squad? (And that still pretty much exist through Astropaths?)
There's only two real "Nerfs" that I can see - Celestine, and Servo Skulls. Yeah, losing Celestine sucks, and Servo Skulls (while responsible for some cheesy spamming) were neat, but we have gotten at least as many useful new rules and gear back, so what the heck is everyone on about?

Chimeras went from the 5 man fire port version to the much more garbage 2 man fire port with lasgun arrays. Henchmen squads can't take 10 point psyker so that hurts things like having a cheap psychic shriek out of that 5 fire port chimera. Servos going away hurts deep strike heavy lists. Also think they upped the cost of some of the inquisitor power weapons but I'm not 100% sure on that. No idea if chimeras lost psy ammo or not but if so then that hurts my heavy bolter chimeras.

Waaaghpower wrote:
Please, somebody, explain to me: What are all these damned nerfs you're talking about? The cheesy, unfluffy psyker batteries that weren't even an intended squad? (And that still pretty much exist through Astropaths?)
There's only two real "Nerfs" that I can see - Celestine, and Servo Skulls. Yeah, losing Celestine sucks, and Servo Skulls (while responsible for some cheesy spamming) were neat, but we have gotten at least as many useful new rules and gear back, so what the heck is everyone on about?

In a sense you are kind of right. At the same time as a sisters player, getting a weak 6th edition style codex at the end of 7th edition missing a strong hq choice that ends up nerfing one of your other units sucks.
Some of the acts of faith are worded a little better now, but are less than ideal in most cases still. They need a slight points tweak in places and acts of faith that actually help the units that can use them.
A couple formations, penitent engines to elites section and celestine would be nice( I assume she will be back in a LOW slot with a bigger model at some point).

The rest of the book is a mess of poorly worded rules and stuff you could have done before minus a couple options.

 Vankraken wrote:
Chimeras went from the 5 man fire port version to the much more garbage 2 man fire port with lasgun arrays. Henchmen squads can't take 10 point psyker so that hurts things like having a cheap psychic shriek out of that 5 fire port chimera. Servos going away hurts deep strike heavy lists. Also think they upped the cost of some of the inquisitor power weapons but I'm not 100% sure on that. No idea if chimeras lost psy ammo or not but if so then that hurts my heavy bolter chimeras.

Psy ammo is still available, and the power weapons are the same cost. I'll admit, I missed the Chimera thing.
You still get a 25pt psyker, by the way - 15pts more, which in my opinion is a great move. Psykers were never meant to be that cheap, it was a janky artifact from the transition into 7th ed.

I think the real problem is that, while things did not get worse, they also didn't get significantly better, which comes as a bit of a shock. If you're expecting steak and you get a hamburger, it's going to be a lot more disappointing than just havinh hamburger all along. Since it seems like a lot of people were expecting significant buffs and didn't get any, then all the minor nerfs seem to hurt a lot more than they really do, and all the buffs don't appear as helpful as they really are.

Did i get it wrong or inq still get cheaper chimeras? like 55 pt, right? A steal for such a transport.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:
Chimeras went from the 5 man fire port version to the much more garbage 2 man fire port with lasgun arrays. Henchmen squads can't take 10 point psyker so that hurts things like having a cheap psychic shriek out of that 5 fire port chimera. Servos going away hurts deep strike heavy lists. Also think they upped the cost of some of the inquisitor power weapons but I'm not 100% sure on that. No idea if chimeras lost psy ammo or not but if so then that hurts my heavy bolter chimeras.

Psy ammo is still available,.

It is no longer an upgrade for vehicles in the new book. The only upgrade for the I chimera in the new book is true silver armour.
So I greatly prefer the old versions since +1 Str heavy bolters infinitely more useful in casual games than those silly servoskulls.
[edit] I was wrong they still have the option it is just not listed under equipment in the appendix

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:
Did i get it wrong or inq still get cheaper chimeras? like 55 pt, right? A steal for such a transport.

I Chimera's are 55 points in the new book.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am totally fine with the fire point thing since it wasn't clear at all where those 5 fire points where located. This was questioned quite a lot, in recent games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vankraken wrote:
Also think they upped the cost of some of the inquisitor power weapons but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Power weapons cost 10 points in the codex and cost 15 in the new book.

afk1sec wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
Please, somebody, explain to me: What are all these damned nerfs you're talking about? The cheesy, unfluffy psyker batteries that weren't even an intended squad? (And that still pretty much exist through Astropaths?)
There's only two real "Nerfs" that I can see - Celestine, and Servo Skulls. Yeah, losing Celestine sucks, and Servo Skulls (while responsible for some cheesy spamming) were neat, but we have gotten at least as many useful new rules and gear back, so what the heck is everyone on about?

In a sense you are kind of right. At the same time as a sisters player, getting a weak 6th edition style codex at the end of 7th edition missing a strong hq choice that ends up nerfing one of your other units sucks.
Some of the acts of faith are worded a little better now, but are less than ideal in most cases still. They need a slight points tweak in places and acts of faith that actually help the units that can use them.
A couple formations, penitent engines to elites section and celestine would be nice( I assume she will be back in a LOW slot with a bigger model at some point).

The rest of the book is a mess of poorly worded rules and stuff you could have done before minus a couple options.

Dude our codex is still valid. GW have said so themselves. This book is purely for other players to include sisters in their armies.

 captain bloody fists wrote:
Dude our codex is still valid. GW have said so themselves. This book is purely for other players to include sisters in their armies.

Is the Allies Matrix going somewhere in the next edition?

And what if you want to ally your Sisters with Imperial Guard?

 Pouncey wrote:

 captain bloody fists wrote:
Dude our codex is still valid. GW have said so themselves. This book is purely for other players to include sisters in their armies.

Is the Allies Matrix going somewhere in the next edition?

And what if you want to ally your Sisters with Imperial Guard?

ugh, just ask your local chaos player how to handle multiple books with different rules.
Hint you will like the answer a lot ; )

 Pouncey wrote:

 captain bloody fists wrote:
Dude our codex is still valid. GW have said so themselves. This book is purely for other players to include sisters in their armies.

Is the Allies Matrix going somewhere in the next edition?

And what if you want to ally your Sisters with Imperial Guard?

Wouldn't have the foggiest.
Well you would use the IA book to ally sisters to IG. I would say.

 captain bloody fists wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 captain bloody fists wrote:
Dude our codex is still valid. GW have said so themselves. This book is purely for other players to include sisters in their armies.

Is the Allies Matrix going somewhere in the next edition?

And what if you want to ally your Sisters with Imperial Guard?

Wouldn't have the foggiest.
Well you would use the IA book to ally sisters to IG. I would say.

I fail to see how C:IA is a superior option to simply relegating each of its codices to a 20 dollar softcover mini-dex, if you wanted to make allying different forces together easy. Simply have the Allies Matrix dictate Imperium is Battle Brothers with Imperium, then in each Imperium codex indicate that the Codex is an Imperium Codex.

Also, I subscribe to the theory that if you want to play four different armies at once, owning, updating, and carrying four books is an acceptable price.

 oldzoggy wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:
Chimeras went from the 5 man fire port version to the much more garbage 2 man fire port with lasgun arrays. Henchmen squads can't take 10 point psyker so that hurts things like having a cheap psychic shriek out of that 5 fire port chimera. Servos going away hurts deep strike heavy lists. Also think they upped the cost of some of the inquisitor power weapons but I'm not 100% sure on that. No idea if chimeras lost psy ammo or not but if so then that hurts my heavy bolter chimeras.

Psy ammo is still available,.

It is no longer an upgrade for vehicles in the new book. The only upgrade for the I chimera in the new book is true silver armour.
So I greatly prefer the old versions since +1 Str heavy bolters infinitely more useful in casual games than those silly servoskulls.

I was wrong. Looked again and they still have the Psy ammo upgrade .
I vehicle equipment options of the new book are.
Storm bolters.
Dozer blades
Psy blot ammo
Extra armour
Hunter killer missiles
True silver armour

 oldzoggy wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:
Chimeras went from the 5 man fire port version to the much more garbage 2 man fire port with lasgun arrays. Henchmen squads can't take 10 point psyker so that hurts things like having a cheap psychic shriek out of that 5 fire port chimera. Servos going away hurts deep strike heavy lists. Also think they upped the cost of some of the inquisitor power weapons but I'm not 100% sure on that. No idea if chimeras lost psy ammo or not but if so then that hurts my heavy bolter chimeras.

Psy ammo is still available,.

It is no longer an upgrade for vehicles in the new book. The only upgrade for the I chimera in the new book is true silver armour.
So I greatly prefer the old versions since +1 Str heavy bolters infinitely more useful in casual games than those silly servoskulls.

I was wrong. Looked again and they still have the Psy ammo upgrade .
I vehicle equipment options of the new book are.
Storm bolters.
Dozer blades
Psy blot ammo
Extra armour
Hunter killer missiles
True silver armour

Are the Sisters of Battle vehicle options in a different section of vehicle equipment?

 Pouncey wrote:


I fail to see how C:IA is a superior option to simply relegating each of its codices to a 20 dollar softcover mini-dex, if you wanted to make allying different forces together easy. Simply have the Allies Matrix dictate Imperium is Battle Brothers with Imperium, then in each Imperium codex indicate that the Codex is an Imperium Codex.

Also, I subscribe to the theory that if you want to play four different armies at once, owning, updating, and carrying four books is an acceptable price.

Fully agree

yes they are. This book is not a single codex its multiple codexes in a single cover with everything in them including their own equipment list, warlord traits appendixes etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sister vehicle exuipment.
Storm bolter
Dozer blade
Extra armour
Hunter killer missile
Laud hailer

 oldzoggy wrote:
yes they are. This book is not a single codex its multiple codexes in a single cover with everything in them including their own equipment list, warlord traits appendixes etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sister vehicle exuipment.
Storm bolter
Dozer blade
Extra armour
Hunter killer missile
Laud hailer

Cool.

Can we get this idea applied to Space Marines next?

 Smotejob wrote:
It's also full of poorly written rules that don't really make sense.

Pretty much this. I like the idea, I like most of the content of the book, but the rules are written poorly, even by GW standards. A Valkyrie detachment that can only ever bring in a single model thanks to the official BRB FAQ is just the tip of the iceberg. Having what looks like a replacement for the Inquisitors, removing Servo Skulls on all three datasheets but still allowing the old datasheets - with the servo skulls - is just as ridiculous. It's the same name, same everything except for that one stupid option they clearly wanted to get rid of. But they didn't. The Henchman Warband is now available as both a formation AND a unit. There's so much wrong with this book on a mechanical level it's just unbelievable.
And even stuff like the Chamber Militant - sure, the idea is really cool. But can someone please explain to me why I'd EVER use that rule if there's a detachment option available with literally the same units in each of them, but with a command benefit on top of that? Chamber Militants gain nothing from being Chamber Militant, all it does is "you loose the benefits of their one-unit-detachment". If you have an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, just bring that Kill Team detachment. It's literally the same units on the table, but better.

The book summed up: Good ideas written down by someone who has basically no clue on how to design rules both in general and specific to 40k. Asked whether or not he'd taken the FAQ into account resulted in an angry shout of "Did you just call me a faq?!".

One might also look on Page 37 of the codex to see that it's intended to be used in conjunction with previously existing armies of the imperium army books.

One wouldn't argue that the Deathwatch Veterans replace the existing Deathwatch Veterans unit profile in Codex: Deathwatch, would you? Because if so, where are the people screaming and crowing about how Deathwatch lost access to rhinos razorbacks and drop pod dedicated transports, and that all Deathwatch players just have to get over it?

No. And if you own Codex: IA, and you want to run your Deathwatch Vets with a drop pod transport, you can just take them in the new Kill Team detachment but use the troop choice present in Codex: Deathwatch if you'd like.

Exactly the same situation with Celestine. Did you purchase and pay money for the digital codex with Celestine in it? Feel free to use her as an HQ choice for the Sisters of Battle faction...which she is. Just like you can take the new Grey Knights detachment from the book and use any Grey Knights troops, Fast Attack and Heavy Support choice you want that has Faction: Grey Knights.

the_scotsman wrote:
One might also look on Page 37 of the codex to see that it's intended to be used in conjunction with previously existing armies of the imperium army books.

One wouldn't argue that the Deathwatch Veterans replace the existing Deathwatch Veterans unit profile in Codex: Deathwatch, would you? Because if so, where are the people screaming and crowing about how Deathwatch lost access to rhinos razorbacks and drop pod dedicated transports, and that all Deathwatch players just have to get over it?

No. And if you own Codex: IA, and you want to run your Deathwatch Vets with a drop pod transport, you can just take them in the new Kill Team detachment but use the troop choice present in Codex: Deathwatch if you'd like.

Exactly the same situation with Celestine. Did you purchase and pay money for the digital codex with Celestine in it? Feel free to use her as an HQ choice for the Sisters of Battle faction...which she is. Just like you can take the new Grey Knights detachment from the book and use any Grey Knights troops, Fast Attack and Heavy Support choice you want that has Faction: Grey Knights.

So basically I should feel free to completely ignore C:IA's existence since I bought the Sisters of Battle eBook codex like 3-4 years ago, it gets free updates, and I don't want to play any other faction in C:IA?

Okay then. I'm not mad, I'm just kinda wondering why Codex: Imperial Agents was even a thing that was created if it's not intended to replace any of the Codices in it but instead provide a slightly-worse version of all the armies in it for people who want to play a combination of them for some reason.

So...why would you need this book?

 koooaei wrote:
So...why would you need this book?

It's a supplement. You don't need it. You can use it, however, if you feel like it. Nobody forces a Space Marine player to use Angels of Death. You can buy and use it, but it's not required of you.

nekooni wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
So...why would you need this book?

It's a supplement. You don't need it. You can use it, however, if you feel like it. Nobody forces a Space Marine player to use Angels of Death. You can buy and use it, but it's not required of you.

Supplements normally add extra units. This really doesn't, and the formations could've been done as dataslates.