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 Crazyterran wrote:
Cawl is a warhound stand in with his 12" gun and 6" movement? Not to mention a refractor is a 5+ invuln, unless it's different in CM.

Warhound stand in. Good one. Luls.

Refractor Field is 5+ as normal.

I think comparing Cawl to a Warhound is the most rediculous thing I've read on Dakka so far in 2017.

Still, the year is young...

 Nostromodamus wrote:

Still, the year is young...

Never let it be said that Dakka doesn't love to indulge in a bit of hyperbole now and then

Interesting how these formations mix in a lot of factions.. shape of things to come in 8th?

 Crazyterran wrote:
Since the next book is going to have an updated Abaddon model, I imagine there will be some new formations to plug him into, especially if another Chaos character comes along with it.

It better be called "Abaddon and the Arms of Chaos."

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
... traitors hate...

"New Content"

HA!

The paper is new though... maybe...

 Latro_ wrote:
Interesting how these formations mix in a lot of factions.. shape of things to come in 8th?

Almost certainly. GW wants to sell every product for every customer. What better way than to reduce as much limitations who can use what. They don't want AM player ignore black templar releases. They want them to buy both.

tneva82 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
Interesting how these formations mix in a lot of factions.. shape of things to come in 8th?

Almost certainly. GW wants to sell every product for every customer. What better way than to reduce as much limitations who can use what. They don't want AM player ignore black templar releases. They want them to buy both.

The interesting quote is 'You must use the profiles, points costs, equipment, options, special rules and any Dedicated Transports available to each unit as described on their datasheet'. Not 'from the relevant codex entry' as they might of written in previous years.

EDIT: they mention codex in the next paragraph, doh

Interesting the Castellans formation does not have space wolves

 Latro_ wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
Interesting how these formations mix in a lot of factions.. shape of things to come in 8th?

Almost certainly. GW wants to sell every product for every customer. What better way than to reduce as much limitations who can use what. They don't want AM player ignore black templar releases. They want them to buy both.

The interesting quote is 'You must use the profiles, points costs, equipment, options, special rules and any Dedicated Transports available to each unit as described on their datasheet'. Not 'from the relevant codex entry' as they might of written in previous years.

EDIT: they mention codex in the next paragraph, doh

And units entry in codex IS their datasheet. Don't see how that's so interesting note.

How do orders work with Tempestus Command Squads (MT), Tempestus Squads (MT), AM Command Squads and AM Tempestus Platoons?

I guess one must still use orders within the same faction.. MT commands to MT and AM command to AM...

Still, adding the Vendettas in, one can use AM command squad for ignore cover orders (and possibli FRFSRF for a squad taken in the elite).

The cheese is potentially big if used with all the imperial units, but one can exploit the list to built a more flexible MT army...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
Interesting how these formations mix in a lot of factions.. shape of things to come in 8th?

Almost certainly. GW wants to sell every product for every customer. What better way than to reduce as much limitations who can use what. They don't want AM player ignore black templar releases. They want them to buy both.

But still yes, this is the main reason. This release can lead to perhaps better under-developed armies like MT, but the final effect is dilute any specificity of the armies, sacrificed to the motto "sell everything to everybody".

 Latro_ wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
Interesting how these formations mix in a lot of factions.. shape of things to come in 8th?

Almost certainly. GW wants to sell every product for every customer. What better way than to reduce as much limitations who can use what. They don't want AM player ignore black templar releases. They want them to buy both.

The interesting quote is 'You must use the profiles, points costs, equipment, options, special rules and any Dedicated Transports available to each unit as described on their datasheet'. Not 'from the relevant codex entry' as they might of written in previous years.

EDIT: they mention codex in the next paragraph, doh

Interesting the Castellans formation does not have space wolves

Castellans doesn't have any of the Space Marines factions besides Codex Space Marines. It is really disappointing since I wanted Hatred on my Blood Angels.

Did someone already muse if the Flock to the Front line rule covers a rhino? e.g. SM unit and Rhino d you roll for the 5+ for both the SM squad and the rhino or wait for both to be destroyed

It makes perfect sense that you can only get Codex Marines and no Blood Angels or Wolves. Besides some Wolfen, they aren't on Cadia at the moment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But Hatred and Blood Angels... Juicy

 Latro_ wrote:
Did someone already muse if the Flock to the Front line rule covers a rhino? e.g. SM unit and Rhino d you roll for the 5+ for both the SM squad and the rhino or wait for both to be destroyed

Once the Tactical Squad disembarks from the Rhino, they are two separate units, so if the squad is wiped out, only they would come back on the 5+.

But you aren't thinking big. A Crusader Squad in a Land Raider Crusader is where it is at.

diepotato47 wrote:
It makes perfect sense that you can only get Codex Marines and no Blood Angels or Wolves. Besides some Wolfen, they aren't on Cadia at the moment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But Hatred and Blood Angels... Juicy

Do we know for def that no Blood Angel Successors are present?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
Did someone already muse if the Flock to the Front line rule covers a rhino? e.g. SM unit and Rhino d you roll for the 5+ for both the SM squad and the rhino or wait for both to be destroyed

Once the Tactical Squad disembarks from the Rhino, they are two separate units, so if the squad is wiped out, only they would come back on the 5+.

But you aren't thinking big. A Crusader Squad in a Land Raider Crusader is where it is at.

your avatar says it all XD

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
Did someone already muse if the Flock to the Front line rule covers a rhino? e.g. SM unit and Rhino d you roll for the 5+ for both the SM squad and the rhino or wait for both to be destroyed

Once the Tactical Squad disembarks from the Rhino, they are two separate units, so if the squad is wiped out, only they would come back on the 5+.

But you aren't thinking big. A Crusader Squad in a Land Raider Crusader is where it is at.

Annoying drop pods are probably way more amusing though. Oh, you finally cleared a drop pod off that objective? Have another one.

So, that grand convocation....what? A giant, unwieldy, ludicrous detachment with all the benefits loaded onto vehicles with basically zero vehicles involved?

Plus, all 3 vehicles you can take either have 1 gun or are walkers, meaning they don't care about moving and firing anyway. What's the point of getting PotMS?

At least the Aquisitorial thingy seems to be a possibility as a more casual version of War Convo, for when you want to play admech as a coherent single army like they should be but don't want to be a tourney grade douche.

diepotato47 wrote:
It makes perfect sense that you can only get Codex Marines and no Blood Angels or Wolves. Besides some Wolfen, they aren't on Cadia at the moment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But Hatred and Blood Angels... Juicy

But up to 997 other space marine chapters are there? Terrible explanation lol

 pretre wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
Did someone already muse if the Flock to the Front line rule covers a rhino? e.g. SM unit and Rhino d you roll for the 5+ for both the SM squad and the rhino or wait for both to be destroyed

Once the Tactical Squad disembarks from the Rhino, they are two separate units, so if the squad is wiped out, only they would come back on the 5+.

But you aren't thinking big. A Crusader Squad in a Land Raider Crusader is where it is at.

Annoying drop pods are probably way more amusing though. Oh, you finally cleared a drop pod off that objective? Have another one.

Amusing, yes. Crazy awesome? Not as much as the Land Raider that won't die.

The best way to make use of this rule is to combat squad the Tacticals so they can sit on more objectives, but keep coming back when they die. Too bad there isn't away to get multiple special weapons on Tactical Squads. Makes the sting of no SW even worse.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
Did someone already muse if the Flock to the Front line rule covers a rhino? e.g. SM unit and Rhino d you roll for the 5+ for both the SM squad and the rhino or wait for both to be destroyed

Once the Tactical Squad disembarks from the Rhino, they are two separate units, so if the squad is wiped out, only they would come back on the 5+.

But you aren't thinking big. A Crusader Squad in a Land Raider Crusader is where it is at.

Annoying drop pods are probably way more amusing though. Oh, you finally cleared a drop pod off that objective? Have another one.

Amusing, yes. Crazy awesome? Not as much as the Land Raider that won't die.

The best way to make use of this rule is to combat squad the Tacticals so they can sit on more objectives, but keep coming back when they die. Too bad there isn't away to get multiple special weapons on Tactical Squads. Makes the sting of no SW even worse.

If you just want cheap special weapons, take BSS. 60 points for 5 and can take 2 specials.

Black Templar crusaders and Land raiders are still pretty terrible even if they come back on a 5+. You're still taking extremely subpar units to have a 33% chance of doing something useful, and a 66% chance of being just as bad as before.

the_scotsman wrote:
So, that grand convocation....what? A giant, unwieldy, ludicrous detachment with all the benefits loaded onto vehicles with basically zero vehicles involved?

Plus, all 3 vehicles you can take either have 1 gun or are walkers, meaning they don't care about moving and firing anyway. What's the point of getting PotMS?

At least the Aquisitorial thingy seems to be a possibility as a more casual version of War Convo, for when you want to play admech as a coherent single army like they should be but don't want to be a tourney grade douche.

Yup, it's honestly pretty hilarious how sad the Grand Convocation is.

The troops coming back rule will be fairly decent for Adepta Sororitas

5 sisters with 2 meltaguns and an immolator with twin linked multi-melta is 140 points.

Both are their own units so can both come back on a 5+ when dead. That sounds like a decent way to recycle Immolators to keep putting those multi-meltas on the table.

Units of 20 sisters are 240 points and with a single priest can be an annoying tarpit to deal with. Now give this unit a chance to come back, even if it has to walk from your table edge, and that's bound to cause headaches. Opponents might think twice about wiping this unit completely if it has a chance to come back.

 Kirasu wrote:
Black Templar crusaders and Land raiders are still pretty terrible even if they come back on a 5+. You're still taking extremely subpar units to have a 33% chance of doing something useful, and a 66% chance of being just as bad as before.

My templars are special and winners and painted nicely just like my grandma said so you shut up.

Is there a way to make terminators troops? Taking a Captain in terminator armor should make it so!

Ooh! That Captain Tyberious the Red Wake from Forge World!

Belisarus Cawl looks like he will be completely impossible to kill. T6, W5, and regenerating D3 wounds each turn. Unless one can put 5 wounds on him in a single turn (which would take a substantial firepower investment) I just don't see how he could be killed. (Well.... maybe a 50 Guardsmen blob with FRFSRF and a few lucky rolls...)

Thoughts on that? (Killing Cawl specifically)

EDIT: Looked over his entry again, looking it over quickly I didn't see any invulnerable saves, perhaps just using anti-tank weapons on him to negate the AP2?

My Ta'unar would make short work of him. A Stormsurge firing a bunch of D-missiles also works.

 Cothonian wrote:
Belisarus Cawl looks like he will be completely impossible to kill. T6, W5, and regenerating D3 wounds each turn. Unless one can put 5 wounds on him in a single turn (which would take a substantial firepower investment) I just don't see how he could be killed. (Well.... maybe a 50 Guardsmen blob with FRFSRF and a few lucky rolls...)

Thoughts on that? (Killing Cawl specifically)

EDIT: Looked over his entry again, looking it over quickly I didn't see any invulnerable saves, perhaps just using anti-tank weapons on him to negate the AP2?

He has a refractor field iirc from reading a few pages back so 5++ if true.

Voldrak wrote:
The troops coming back rule will be fairly decent for Adepta Sororitas

5 sisters with 2 meltaguns and an immolator with twin linked multi-melta is 140 points.

Both are their own units so can both come back on a 5+ when dead. That sounds like a decent way to recycle Immolators to keep putting those multi-meltas on the table.

Units of 20 sisters are 240 points and with a single priest can be an annoying tarpit to deal with. Now give this unit a chance to come back, even if it has to walk from your table edge, and that's bound to cause headaches. Opponents might think twice about wiping this unit completely if it has a chance to come back.

no obsec though...

 Latro_ wrote:

Voldrak wrote:
The troops coming back rule will be fairly decent for Adepta Sororitas

5 sisters with 2 meltaguns and an immolator with twin linked multi-melta is 140 points.

Both are their own units so can both come back on a 5+ when dead. That sounds like a decent way to recycle Immolators to keep putting those multi-meltas on the table.

Units of 20 sisters are 240 points and with a single priest can be an annoying tarpit to deal with. Now give this unit a chance to come back, even if it has to walk from your table edge, and that's bound to cause headaches. Opponents might think twice about wiping this unit completely if it has a chance to come back.

no obsec though...

Cortez is now your 100pt tax to add obj secured to your entire detachment. Along with all his old benefits.

However if you kill Cortez does your entire detachment lose obj secured?

gungo wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:

Voldrak wrote:
The troops coming back rule will be fairly decent for Adepta Sororitas

5 sisters with 2 meltaguns and an immolator with twin linked multi-melta is 140 points.

Both are their own units so can both come back on a 5+ when dead. That sounds like a decent way to recycle Immolators to keep putting those multi-meltas on the table.

Units of 20 sisters are 240 points and with a single priest can be an annoying tarpit to deal with. Now give this unit a chance to come back, even if it has to walk from your table edge, and that's bound to cause headaches. Opponents might think twice about wiping this unit completely if it has a chance to come back.

no obsec though...

Cortez is now your 100pt tax to add obj secured to your entire detachment. Along with all his old benefits.

OMG Good catch!