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Commissar Benny wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

Commissar Benny wrote:

dosiere wrote:
Hopefully it will mean a new plastic line of guardsmen. I've always wanted to collect an imperial army but the poses and proportions just don't do it for me. Bring it on.

It would be a great excuse to retire the Cadian line. Cadians will still be present in the universe (in the billions) but it will be nice to see some of the other IG regiments in plastic or entirely new ones. One of the largest draws of the IG for me is the vast number of regiments and how each of them vary not only in appearance but also have very different combat doctrines. Currently that isn't really reflected on the tabletop. 9 times out of 10 you will see Cadian IG players because you cannot buy any of the other regiments in stores and many of the models are OOP entirely.

What happened to the Catachan plastics, exactly?

The catachan as badass as they are, are an intimidating army to start collecting. The amount of skin exposed on catachan is an absolute nightmare to paint. It put me off from collecting the army entirely. I'm sure I am not alone in that. I'd even go as far as to say it is probably the most difficult army to paint in all of 40k. Reasons being, the models are human. We are human. We know what humans are supposed to look like so naturally we are going to be overly critical if said models look off in any way. With so much skin exposed on catachans, there is literally tens of hours of extra work to do per model vs. other IG lines. You need to add scars, tattoo, extra dry brushing for muscles etc etc.

Love the catachan background, but it was a bad choice as an alternative regiment to stock in stores.

Uhh... You know that all Tyranid models are fully naked, right?

Also personally I've, uh, kinda recognized I'm not a very good painter and am willing to settle for "good enough" instead of insisting on near-perfect paintjobs. I actually owned a Catachan army before the Cadian plastics came out, and my paint jobs were pretty bad. If I remember right, I even misinterpreted the entirely bare chests for thin vests and painted them in the same color as the rest of the uniform.

 Pouncey wrote:

Commissar Benny wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

Commissar Benny wrote:

dosiere wrote:
Hopefully it will mean a new plastic line of guardsmen. I've always wanted to collect an imperial army but the poses and proportions just don't do it for me. Bring it on.

It would be a great excuse to retire the Cadian line. Cadians will still be present in the universe (in the billions) but it will be nice to see some of the other IG regiments in plastic or entirely new ones. One of the largest draws of the IG for me is the vast number of regiments and how each of them vary not only in appearance but also have very different combat doctrines. Currently that isn't really reflected on the tabletop. 9 times out of 10 you will see Cadian IG players because you cannot buy any of the other regiments in stores and many of the models are OOP entirely.

What happened to the Catachan plastics, exactly?

The catachan as badass as they are, are an intimidating army to start collecting. The amount of skin exposed on catachan is an absolute nightmare to paint. It put me off from collecting the army entirely. I'm sure I am not alone in that. I'd even go as far as to say it is probably the most difficult army to paint in all of 40k. Reasons being, the models are human. We are human. We know what humans are supposed to look like so naturally we are going to be overly critical if said models look off in any way. With so much skin exposed on catachans, there is literally tens of hours of extra work to do per model vs. other IG lines. You need to add scars, tattoo, extra dry brushing for muscles etc etc.

Love the catachan background, but it was a bad choice as an alternative regiment to stock in stores.

Uhh... You know that all Tyranid models are fully naked, right?

Also personally I've, uh, kinda recognized I'm not a very good painter and am willing to settle for "good enough" instead of insisting on near-perfect paintjobs. I actually owned a Catachan army before the Cadian plastics came out, and my paint jobs were pretty bad. If I remember right, I even misinterpreted the entirely bare chests for thin vests and painted them in the same color as the rest of the uniform.

Yeah, Orks/Tyranids etc are all skin but with those being xenos its much easier to overlook painting errors and abnormalities because they are not human. I commend anyone who attempts to paint a catachan army. It has to be the hardest army to paint out there. All skin, muscle drybrushing, need to add scars, tattoos, have a mixture of racial colors, and if anything looks off you'll be criticized for it. A normal Steel Legion guardsman takes me close to 30 hours per model. I'd be looking at closer to 40-45 on a catachan.

Getting a little side tracked, but I guess the point I was making is with the fall of Cadia it opens up new opportunities for GW to either bring some of the older regiments back in plastic or create an entirely new regiment. I feel like after 1-2 pewter runs, 1-2 plastic runs and Cadian models available from Forgeworld, anyone who was interested in the Cadian aesthetic has likely made their investment. Catachans as mentioned above are a totally badass regiment and while their availability is good, it is completely off putting for new players. Very very difficult to paint.

Commissar Benny wrote:
Yeah, Orks/Tyranids etc are all skin but with those being xenos its much easier to overlook painting errors and abnormalities because they are not human. I commend anyone who attempts to paint a catachan army. It has to be the hardest army to paint out there. All skin, muscle drybrushing, need to add scars, tattoos, have a mixture of racial colors, and if anything looks off you'll be criticized for it. A normal Steel Legion guardsman takes me close to 30 hours per model. I'd be looking at closer to 40-45 on a catachan.

Getting a little side tracked, but I guess the point I was making is with the fall of Cadia it opens up new opportunities for GW to either bring some of the older regiments back in plastic or create an entirely new regiment. I feel like after 1-2 pewter runs, 1-2 plastic runs and Cadian models available from Forgeworld, anyone who was interested in the Cadian aesthetic has likely made their investment. Catachans as mentioned above are a totally badass regiment and while their availability is good, it is completely off putting for new players. Very very difficult to paint.

Given that one of the supposedly serious roadblocks you're stating is literally just, "You have to have some extra colors in your paint collection," I think you're overstating the difficulty.

Also, you play a horde army but spend 30 hours on each model? I think you just have really high personal standards that don't apply to most painters.

 Pouncey wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Chaos will spend so much resources on pushing through Cadia that will not be able to push further in, the Imperium will set up a new Cadia on the nearest planet(s) worth holding

Now that you mention it, given how, uh, space works, why have the Chaos commanders never said, "Cadia's too much of a pain in the butt, we'll probably never take it. Let's just bypass the system entirely and go for other targets that aren't so ludicrously well-defended."

One justification is that there's no other safe path that allows major fleets. If you try to just leave there you get noticed and attacked.

Also supply lines are still a thing. If your supply line goes through enemy held bottleneck then guess what? All your supplies are going to be under attack while they are heading. Wars are won and lost on logistics and that doesn't sound logistically viable situation...

Which is why with Cadia standing chaos is limited to smaller raids out of the eye of terror as they can only use smaller and less safe paths. Attempting to bring major fleet there would result in horrendous losses.

 andysonic1 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
They said a loyalist Primarch was coming back as well as Magnus.

I hope he's as big as Magnus for no reason.

Oh god. It's going to be Guilliman in a Primarch-scale Dreadknight baby-carrier. I can feel it in my bones...

 Verviedi wrote:
I'd love some models with EVA-style full face helmets. I have an idea, and would like a solution that doesn't involve mass-cloning that one DE head.

There's 4 in the Reaver Jetbike kits.

Tell you what, you buy enough Jetbike kits to make an army. You can have the heads and I'll have the Jetbikes yeah

With a bit of GS covering the eyes on those two semi-blank Wych heads you could get some more out of those...

Just because Chaos Space Marines tend to love them some Chaos, doesn't mean taking an unstable path out of the eye won't lead to their ship being destroyed, shorn in two, devoured by a giant Daemon, invaded by daemons of another God, or some other catastrophe from occurring.

tneva82 wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Chaos will spend so much resources on pushing through Cadia that will not be able to push further in, the Imperium will set up a new Cadia on the nearest planet(s) worth holding

Now that you mention it, given how, uh, space works, why have the Chaos commanders never said, "Cadia's too much of a pain in the butt, we'll probably never take it. Let's just bypass the system entirely and go for other targets that aren't so ludicrously well-defended."

One justification is that there's no other safe path that allows major fleets. If you try to just leave there you get noticed and attacked.

Also supply lines are still a thing. If your supply line goes through enemy held bottleneck then guess what? All your supplies are going to be under attack while they are heading. Wars are won and lost on logistics and that doesn't sound logistically viable situation...

Which is why with Cadia standing chaos is limited to smaller raids out of the eye of terror as they can only use smaller and less safe paths. Attempting to bring major fleet there would result in horrendous losses.

...It's space. Gaps between star systems are measured in lightyears. A lightyear is the distance light takes one Earth year to travel at a speed of roughly 300,000 kilometers per SECOND, and your ships are only 5 miles long. No one would even notice your ships going right by it.

I mean, really, asteroid belts aren't a serious navigation hazard because the asteroids are so far spread out you can go between them very easily.

 Pouncey wrote:
...It's space. Gaps between star systems are measured in lightyears. A lightyear is the distance light takes one Earth year to travel at a speed of roughly 300,000 kilometers per SECOND, and your ships are only 5 miles long. No one would even notice your ships going right by it.

I mean, really, asteroid belts aren't a serious navigation hazard because the asteroids are so far spread out you can go between them very easily.

Yet Imperium(and others) can detect ships moving in warp. Especially bigger the fleet easier the detection. So you try to head in warp toward elsewhere Imperium detects and sends their own fleets. And then when you try to send supplies same thing.

SURE you could try non-sublight speeds and hope you don't get noticed(note how we can detect asteroids moving in our solar system. Think asteroids are tad smaller than 5km and are unpowered. I imagine tech tens of thousands of years ahead are easier to detect...) but how long you think it's going to take?

We aren't talking about manouvering between asteroids. We are talking about detecting presence in warp. Which is possible. And big fleets don't get past undetected just like that. Especially when said path they take is known and small.

There has been a lot of hinting that the Emperor's secret project was building webway gates for Man.

My guess is Cadia falls, Terra is besieged, the Golden Throne is destroyed, and the Astronomicon is no more. Chaos is repulsed, and Mankind turns to the webway as a means to reclaim it's empire.

Would be kind of like the realms for Age of Sigmar, on a galactic scale.

 techsoldaten wrote:
There has been a lot of hinting that the Emperor's secret project was building webway gates for Man.

My guess is Cadia falls, Terra is besieged, the Golden Throne is destroyed, and the Astronomicon is no more. Chaos is repulsed, and Mankind turns to the webway as a means to reclaim it's empire.

Would be kind of like the realms for Age of Sigmar, on a galactic scale.

Magnus destroyed the Emperor's webway project with the psychic blast he used to warn the Emperor of Horus' betrayal.

Commissar Benny wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

Commissar Benny wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

Commissar Benny wrote:

dosiere wrote:
Hopefully it will mean a new plastic line of guardsmen. I've always wanted to collect an imperial army but the poses and proportions just don't do it for me. Bring it on.

It would be a great excuse to retire the Cadian line. Cadians will still be present in the universe (in the billions) but it will be nice to see some of the other IG regiments in plastic or entirely new ones. One of the largest draws of the IG for me is the vast number of regiments and how each of them vary not only in appearance but also have very different combat doctrines. Currently that isn't really reflected on the tabletop. 9 times out of 10 you will see Cadian IG players because you cannot buy any of the other regiments in stores and many of the models are OOP entirely.

What happened to the Catachan plastics, exactly?

The catachan as badass as they are, are an intimidating army to start collecting. The amount of skin exposed on catachan is an absolute nightmare to paint. It put me off from collecting the army entirely. I'm sure I am not alone in that. I'd even go as far as to say it is probably the most difficult army to paint in all of 40k. Reasons being, the models are human. We are human. We know what humans are supposed to look like so naturally we are going to be overly critical if said models look off in any way. With so much skin exposed on catachans, there is literally tens of hours of extra work to do per model vs. other IG lines. You need to add scars, tattoo, extra dry brushing for muscles etc etc.

Love the catachan background, but it was a bad choice as an alternative regiment to stock in stores.

Uhh... You know that all Tyranid models are fully naked, right?

Also personally I've, uh, kinda recognized I'm not a very good painter and am willing to settle for "good enough" instead of insisting on near-perfect paintjobs. I actually owned a Catachan army before the Cadian plastics came out, and my paint jobs were pretty bad. If I remember right, I even misinterpreted the entirely bare chests for thin vests and painted them in the same color as the rest of the uniform.

Yeah, Orks/Tyranids etc are all skin but with those being xenos its much easier to overlook painting errors and abnormalities because they are not human. I commend anyone who attempts to paint a catachan army. It has to be the hardest army to paint out there. All skin, muscle drybrushing, need to add scars, tattoos, have a mixture of racial colors, and if anything looks off you'll be criticized for it. A normal Steel Legion guardsman takes me close to 30 hours per model. I'd be looking at closer to 40-45 on a catachan.

Getting a little side tracked, but I guess the point I was making is with the fall of Cadia it opens up new opportunities for GW to either bring some of the older regiments back in plastic or create an entirely new regiment. I feel like after 1-2 pewter runs, 1-2 plastic runs and Cadian models available from Forgeworld, anyone who was interested in the Cadian aesthetic has likely made their investment. Catachans as mentioned above are a totally badass regiment and while their availability is good, it is completely off putting for new players. Very very difficult to paint.

30-50 hours on a guardsmen, yikes!!!

Golden throne is also keeping the webway gate on Terra the emperor made from being opened as Magnus' blast breached the tunnels there thus the daemons would be able to freely flow out.

tneva82 wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
...It's space. Gaps between star systems are measured in lightyears. A lightyear is the distance light takes one Earth year to travel at a speed of roughly 300,000 kilometers per SECOND, and your ships are only 5 miles long. No one would even notice your ships going right by it.

I mean, really, asteroid belts aren't a serious navigation hazard because the asteroids are so far spread out you can go between them very easily.

Yet Imperium(and others) can detect ships moving in warp. Especially bigger the fleet easier the detection. So you try to head in warp toward elsewhere Imperium detects and sends their own fleets. And then when you try to send supplies same thing.

SURE you could try non-sublight speeds and hope you don't get noticed(note how we can detect asteroids moving in our solar system. Think asteroids are tad smaller than 5km and are unpowered. I imagine tech tens of thousands of years ahead are easier to detect...) but how long you think it's going to take?

We aren't talking about manouvering between asteroids. We are talking about detecting presence in warp. Which is possible. And big fleets don't get past undetected just like that. Especially when said path they take is known and small.

Uhh, okay...

So, can the Imperium, like, fight a Chaos fleet within the Warp itself?

Like, if a Chaos fleet does Warp travel and just doesn't stop at literally the first star system they come across, what sort of effective resistance can the Imperium offer against a Chaos fleet within the Warp that is interested in just going somewhere else instead of fighting at Cadia?

Because the Chaos ships are damned well not going to have any Gellar fields, and I'm pretty damned sure ship-to-ship combat in the Warp is extremely difficult for the Imperium but wouldn't be any issue for Chaos since they, you know, live there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 techsoldaten wrote:
There has been a lot of hinting that the Emperor's secret project was building webway gates for Man.

My guess is Cadia falls, Terra is besieged, the Golden Throne is destroyed, and the Astronomicon is no more. Chaos is repulsed, and Mankind turns to the webway as a means to reclaim it's empire.

Would be kind of like the realms for Age of Sigmar, on a galactic scale.

Mankind would declare the webway to be xenos heresy and try to destroy it.

They, like, regressed. A LOT.

 Pouncey wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
...It's space. Gaps between star systems are measured in lightyears. A lightyear is the distance light takes one Earth year to travel at a speed of roughly 300,000 kilometers per SECOND, and your ships are only 5 miles long. No one would even notice your ships going right by it.

I mean, really, asteroid belts aren't a serious navigation hazard because the asteroids are so far spread out you can go between them very easily.

Yet Imperium(and others) can detect ships moving in warp. Especially bigger the fleet easier the detection. So you try to head in warp toward elsewhere Imperium detects and sends their own fleets. And then when you try to send supplies same thing.

SURE you could try non-sublight speeds and hope you don't get noticed(note how we can detect asteroids moving in our solar system. Think asteroids are tad smaller than 5km and are unpowered. I imagine tech tens of thousands of years ahead are easier to detect...) but how long you think it's going to take?

We aren't talking about manouvering between asteroids. We are talking about detecting presence in warp. Which is possible. And big fleets don't get past undetected just like that. Especially when said path they take is known and small.

Uhh, okay...

So, can the Imperium, like, fight a Chaos fleet within the Warp itself?

Like, if a Chaos fleet does Warp travel and just doesn't stop at literally the first star system they come across, what sort of effective resistance can the Imperium offer against a Chaos fleet within the Warp that is interested in just going somewhere else instead of fighting at Cadia?

Because the Chaos ships are damned well not going to have any Gellar fields, and I'm pretty damned sure ship-to-ship combat in the Warp is extremely difficult for the Imperium but wouldn't be any issue for Chaos since they, you know, live there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 techsoldaten wrote:
There has been a lot of hinting that the Emperor's secret project was building webway gates for Man.

My guess is Cadia falls, Terra is besieged, the Golden Throne is destroyed, and the Astronomicon is no more. Chaos is repulsed, and Mankind turns to the webway as a means to reclaim it's empire.

Would be kind of like the realms for Age of Sigmar, on a galactic scale.

Mankind would declare the webway to be xenos heresy and try to destroy it.

They, like, regressed. A LOT.

I'm now imagining the Black Templar going into the webway, seeing what it is, and then hitting the walls with their chainswords or shooting the wall with their bolters in an attempt to purge the Xenos filth.

Also aren't some of the custodes supposed to be stuck in some sort of secret battle to help hold back the daemons on the other side of the gate or something while the emperor holds it shut?

I'm not sure about the chaos marine ships not having gellar fields (or an equivalent). They might be chaos-corrupted humans, but they're still dependent on 'normal' laws of physics to a certain extent (otherwise they wouldn't need ships).

Yeah from what I understand CSM exist in the Eye of Terror because it's sort of a blending of realspace and the warp.

Unprotected exposure to the warp would be just as deadly to a CSM as it would be to anyone else.

Also, I'm fairly certain you can't just zip your ships straight to Holy Terra undetected. There might not be an explanation in the fluff as yet, but simply by the fact that it hasn't happened in the context of the universe suggests that it's not possible.

If rumors of the Templar entering the Webway is true, then myb we will see Khan s our first Loyalist Primarch.

And on a giant Bike with some decent guns he can totally compete with Daemon Primarchs.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
If rumors of the Templar entering the Webway is true, then myb we will see Khan s our first Loyalist Primarch.

And on a giant Bike with some decent guns he can totally compete with Daemon Primarchs.

If Khan comes back I so hope that Doomrider explodes out of the warp as well. They won't bring him back but I can hope.

My local retailer has heard talk that the plan is to bring everything to the absolute brink of collapse and leave it there for 8th edition. So 8th edition won't be post apocalypse like AoS is, it'll be more like a perpetual Crap splatter as it will be hitting the fan for years to come. Personally I am good with that, it advances the story line, but does not push it too far. I think GW went to far with AoS storyline, being mid apocalypse is a good place to leave things, it allows so many options for future releases.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Yeah from what I understand CSM exist in the Eye of Terror because it's sort of a blending of realspace and the warp.

Unprotected exposure to the warp would be just as deadly to a CSM as it would be to anyone else.

Also, I'm fairly certain you can't just zip your ships straight to Holy Terra undetected. There might not be an explanation in the fluff as yet, but simply by the fact that it hasn't happened in the context of the universe suggests that it's not possible.

The Beast did it with a moon, but he was kind of cheating with his magic teleportgubbinz.

Also, the Eldar did it. Granted, they did it when Terra's defences were a shambles, but they still got in right under the noses of Mars and Titan.

Pretty sure the Necrons did it once too but got discovered the moment they entered the Solar System. They actually managed to land on Mars.

Basically, sure you can, if you're hax enough. Chaos just needs to step their game up and learn how to play with the big boys

tneva82 wrote:

Davor wrote:

ChazSexington wrote:Retcon.

At least that's what happened last time.

Yeah sadly no matter what GW does, while I will enjoy the ride they are doing, I have this nagging feeling this is all for not and it will be just like Dallas and "it was all a dream" and means nothing.

Wish that had been so in fb side.

I am sure that can still happen. It's one of the first things I thought of when reading Age of Sigmar starter box set.

mrhappyface wrote:So are they going to retcon the retcon they made after the black crusade campaign? I wonder if they will retcon the fall of Cadia after this campaign, this will become retconception.

Maybe they are taking a page from Marvel and DC now and will just keep rebooting everything.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
They said a loyalist Primarch was coming back as well as Magnus.

I hope he's as big as Magnus for no reason.

Man, Guilliman's really let himself go.

Girlyman be like...

Tremble before his might heretics! Lest you be clensed within his folds of righteousness and drown in his sweat of faith!

 Robin5t wrote:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Yeah from what I understand CSM exist in the Eye of Terror because it's sort of a blending of realspace and the warp.

Unprotected exposure to the warp would be just as deadly to a CSM as it would be to anyone else.

Also, I'm fairly certain you can't just zip your ships straight to Holy Terra undetected. There might not be an explanation in the fluff as yet, but simply by the fact that it hasn't happened in the context of the universe suggests that it's not possible.

The Beast did it with a moon, but he was kind of cheating with his magic teleportgubbinz.

Also, the Eldar did it. Granted, they did it when Terra's defences were a shambles, but they still got in right under the noses of Mars and Titan.

Pretty sure the Necrons did it once too but got discovered the moment they entered the Solar System. They actually managed to land on Mars.

Basically, sure you can, if you're hax enough. Chaos just needs to step their game up and learn how to play with the big boys

I'm not a chaos fan, but the chaos gods got to earth and messed up the primarchs and scattered them through the warp.... looong before any of that.

Edit
An interesting theory of the DE guiding them picture and also rumored to be true. He is guiding them away from Cadia since they got their ass kicked.

 General Kroll wrote:
Chaos are going to swarm across the galaxy and there's going to be even MORE grimdark.

Sweet baby Emperor, there will be entire PLANETS of SKULLS!!

Seriously though, I think it's great that they are taking steps to move the story forward. Even if a faction or two gets squashed (as a BattleTech player this is par for course), which I don't really see happening for 40k...

Heartland wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:
Chaos are going to swarm across the galaxy and there's going to be even MORE grimdark.

Sweet baby Emperor, there will be entire PLANETS of SKULLS!!

Or alternatively Chaos will bring the exaggerated tongue-in-cheek theme that was hunted down and eliminated in 5e back. Planets of skulls seems more like typical chaos ridiculousness than actual takes-itself-seriously grimdark.

 Pouncey wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
I believe the only way to destroy the pilons is to perform millions of Daemonic rituals on Cadia to overlord them with warp energy... Or something to that affect.

Something wrong with cyclonic torpedoes?

Chaos use to have a ship called the "Planet Killer" It shot a beam that destroyed planets deathstar style. I wonder why it has never dawned on them to use it.

 Exergy wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
I believe the only way to destroy the pilons is to perform millions of Daemonic rituals on Cadia to overlord them with warp energy... Or something to that affect.

Something wrong with cyclonic torpedoes?

Chaos use to have a ship called the "Planet Killer" It shot a beam that destroyed planets deathstar style. I wonder why it has never dawned on them to use it.

1. They still have it, it was 'destroyed' in the Gothic War but was sighted again afterwards.
2. Plot armour. The Pylons can only be destroyed by overloading them with warp energy.

 Robin5t wrote:
On the livestream today, they confirmed that Fall of Cadia is only the start of the story - they also confirmed that the galaxy will still be standing when this is all done.

in other words "don't panic, we're not AoSing 40k"