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Hi, I've just started chaos and thought that I'd go for the thousand sons but I am struggling to build a list for them.

I played my first game with them today against a death Guard list that had a load of t5 terminators and I barely beat him.

I feel as though my list struggles with ap2 and the heldrakes just fluffed every time they tried to burn anything.

Below is the list that I ran today;

Sorcerer- level 2, astral grimoire, spell familiar, combi bolter, mark of tzeentch, votlw- 153

Chosen squad- 3 meltaguns, rhino, mark of tzeentch, votlw-165

Scarab occult squad- hellfyre missiles, soul reaper cannon- 300

5 man CSM Squad- mark of tzeentch, votlw, plasma gun, rhino-135

5 man CSM Squad- mark of tzeentch, votlw, plasma gun, rhino-135

Heldrake- 170

Heldrake-170

Habits- mark of tzeentch, votlw, 4x autocannons

Herald of tzeentch- 45

11 Pink horrors - 99






Has anyone any hints or tips to make this run better, I feel like I may need to scrap at least one heldrake.

Thanks in advance.

A couple of things:
- Sorcs should always be ML3 unless you're taking them as a requirement for a CAD since they're the cheapest option. Ditch the combi bolter while you're at it. You're also 5 points over on the sorc, he should only be 148 with the gear you've given him here.
- Not sure why you've got chosen in there when Havoks can do the same job for much cheaper, nor why you've got 3 specials if the plan is to fire out the top hatch of the rhino.
- I assume the scarabs are there to hide your Sorceror in? Don't bother, take normal termies, they're better and cheaper
- CSM squads get very little out of the MoT, though if you had to run them, the way you've got them here isn't the worst thing ever
- Heldrakes are fine, especially since you have no other ignores cover.
- Definately get the herald ML3 and Paradox if you can, guaranteed summoning on 5 dice is very good.
- Pink horrors are fine, but if you need to shave points, 11 blues does pretty much the same thing.

Overall, there's nothing about your list that actually says Thousand Sons and you're taking a bunch of units that get virtually no benefit at all from the MoT. You need to have a think about how you want to play the army and then build to that. This looks more like a chaos warband without a lord or fast attack selection. The only benefits you get out of a Sons detatchment is +1 invo if your unit is affected by a blessing, Rubricae are troops and you hand out hatred to spess woofs. Is that really something that you think your list will benefit from?

Thanks for the reply, this army is just what models I have, I just liked the idea of thousand sons, we have a lot of death Guard and black legion in my gw so wanted something a little different then them, the other choice was Alpha Legion. The models I've got are;

Sorcerer in power armour
Sorcerer with terminator armour

3 aspiring champs,
3 csm with plasma guns
3 csm with melta guns
5 csm with autocannons
18 bolter csm
5 scarab occult with hellfyre and soul reaper
5 terminators, 1 with power weapon, 1 reaper autocannon, 1 claws, 1 chainfist, 1 powerfist
3 rhino
2 heldrakes
Herald of tzeentch
11 pink horrors
22 blue horrors
22 brimstone horrors

Flaming chariot of tzeentch





I have got various knights to use as renegades, and can probably get hold of some cultists if I was to go down the alpha legion route, got any idea where I can go from here?

I'd probably do Alpha Legion unless you really, really like Thousand Sons. Sorry to say, but the Sons are just that bad at the moment (and have been for many, many years now) and since they only just got their book, they're going to be bottom of the pile for a long time to come unless 8th somehow makes them better, though I can't see it happening.

Have you considered Tz daemons as your primary force with some Allied Thousand Sons instead? An ML3 sorc, MoT cultists, a single unit of scarabs and a heldrake would make for a decent enough allied force with Tz daemons being able to be built into a fairly strong force.

You may have to proxy a Chaos Lord and Raptors, but otherwise you have enough for the below.

Chaos Warband
- 1x Lord
- 1x Terminators
- 2x CSM w/Rhino
- 1x Raptors
- 1x Havocs
Heldrake Terror Pack
- 2x Heldrakes

Allied Detachment (Thousand Sons)
- Sorcerer, Astral Grimoire
- Scarab Occult
- CSM w/Rhino

Allied Detachment (Daemons)
- Herald
- 11x Pink Horrors
- Burning Chariot

Warband+Heldrakes is a standard composition, so you can try different legions as you prefer. If you're running Scarab Terminators, absolutely make sure their HQ brings the Astral Grimoire, so everyone gets a jump move. Add Daemons to taste, adjust the entire army to points.

I thought you can't have a detachment thats the same faction as your primary?

 Snoopdeville3 wrote:
I thought you can't have a detachment thats the same faction as your primary?

i think youre wrong. Units cannot be part of the same grouping.

The Thousand Sons allied detachment is illegal, as its the same faction as the primary.

Just verify with your group that you have permission to self-ally. Otherwise, adding a single CSM troop will make it a CAD.

If you're playing friendly games for fun, the main thing is getting all your models on the board.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The Thousand Sons allied detachment is illegal, as its the same faction as the primary.

Thanks for verifying.