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So here is a dumb/simple question. I haven't played 40k since call it 2006, though recently I have thought more and more about getting back into the game. I understand this is a simple way of asking and there are probably tons of things that have changed, but what has changed in the last 10 years? Are there new over-arching powers, rules? Is it the same game with more armies? Same army constructs?

More specifically, what has happened to the below armies:

Chaos (Thousand Sons):

Tau:

Eldar (Saim Haan):

Imperial Guard:

Are there new armies?

In the words of Samuel L. Jackson..."Hold onto your butts..."

I'll let the current 7th players answer this one, but suffice to say that quite a lot has changed.

Short version:

Army building has changed dramatically with the new detachments and formations available. Super heavies are now part of the standard game.

Re your armies:

Thousand Sons have just had a big release and are no longer terrible.

Tau have been boosted substantially and have received a variety of big robots as well as a vastly superior crisis suit kit.

Jetbike eldar is the new hotness now that every bike can have a scatter laser (mid-strength multi-shot weapons are the tool of choice for just about everything in this edition).

IG are now "astra militarium" and the new edition has not been kind to them. With vehicles being weaker and with many of the traditional anti-tank weapons now being poor against vehicles and against the much more common monstrous creatures they're struggling.

There are new armies and many of the existing ones have changed quite a bit.

 Scott-S6 wrote:
Short version:

Army building has changed dramatically with the new detachments and formations available. Super heavies are now part of the standard game.

Re your armies:

Thousand Sons have just had a big release and are no longer terrible.

Tau have been boosted substantially and have received a variety of big robots as well as a vastly superior crisis suit kit.

Jetbike eldar is the new hotness now that every bike can have a scatter laser (mid-strength multi-shot weapons are the tool of choice for just about everything in this edition).

IG are now "astra militarium" and the new edition has not been kind to them. With vehicles being weaker and with many of the traditional anti-tank weapons now being poor against vehicles and against the much more common monstrous creatures they're struggling.

There are new armies and many of the existing ones have changed quite a bit.

I think I remember talk of detachments and that stuff starting up when I was getting out of the game. Essentially being able to use "mini armies" within your army? If I'm not mistaken?

By formations, do you mean vehicles being in "squads"? I remember that started coming up as well.

The super heavies thing saddens me as I was never a huge fan of forgeworld style armies as they take some of the fun out of the game. It's like jackasses who used to run the Imperial Guard Armored companies... Not that I was against having 3-6 Basilisks on a table

Armies:
I'm actually really sad that Eldar jetbikes are the cool thing now. I used to run games because I'd run Vypers and war walkers with star cannons and guide and just shred terminators and heavy support.


Where is the best place to begin in trying to pick this back up again? Are there any new, cool armies that have been brought back? I always liked the idea of a praetorian army. I was looking on GW and saw that there are new harlequins also?

A detachment is a force organization, such as 1 HQ, 2 Troops and up to one more HQ, 4 Troops, 3 Elites, 3 Fast Attack, 3 Heavy support, 1 fortification, and 1 Lord of War. This one is the standard Combined Arms Detachment, and if you use it, you may re-roll your Warlord Trait and your troops gain Objective Secured. There are many detachments found throughout all the current codexes.

A formation is a specific grouping of select units that gain certain bonuses for being in the same formation.

Several formations can be included in a detachment. Indeed, most of the Space Marine detachments require several formations.

There is also the detachment that no one speaks of, for it is the path of madness: It's called Unbound. The only restriction for this detachment is the points level you are playing. Want to bring a Hive Tyrant, unit of Terminators, Tau Crisis Suits in one army? Use Unbound. Wanna see what 2,000 points of Wraith Knights will do on the table? Play Unbound. It's not often used or welcomed, especially at tournaments.

The game has changed significantly in 10 years. Army creation is probably the biggest change with detachments and formations. Close Combat has changed significantly with the introduction of random charge ranges and over watch. Your best bet would be to travel to your local FLGS, and watch a couple games and ask questions.

Good luck! 8th Edition is next year! The Sigmification of 40K, and the return of the Primarchs and Emperor!

Really depends on the playstyle you enjoy the most for the game side, and how much you enjoy the model side.

If modding and the like are your thing Chaos is usually the one to come back to. A big boost just happened with Traitor Legions, and GW is flaring up the next crusade so expect a big focus on Chaos and Xenos in 2017. TSons aren't quite there yet as a solo force (points prohibitive) but I have a feeling CSM will be getting significant point/rules adjustments in 8th since most content being released is very general.

Eldar, while "OP" by some, are a solid choice as you can fly around with Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Harleys with how allies work. Great looking models aesthetically, and very interesting to play.

Tau are generally with Eldar at the big kids table for competition. That said, it is very much a spam big units for competitive. If you like Patlabor, Gundam, Eva, Escaflowne, etc. I would run towards boxes of these guys. That said, expect adjustments to these guys in upcoming 8th. I think shooting phase and special rules as a whole is going to be very heavily adjusted.

I'd doubt very much change in 8th to these guys (Tau and Eldar) as, among Marines, "balance" seems to fall towards the powerful side. GW lately hasn't been very nerf focused, more towards rules development and boosting weaker armies through special rules/formations.

Astra Militarum is pretty fun to play and paint for variety. With 8th Edition coming I'd say expect a boost in power level, but for Man to be tied more to Marine unfortunately as the community has a feeling that we'll see 4 arms of factions instead of individuality. I personally think we'll see a meld of Sigmar (army centralization) and 40k (expansive rule sets).

Detachments and formations are basically modified force organization charts that give bonuses to the units involved (ie. +1 invuln save for TSons legion, or ObSec and RR Warlord on many detachments). Generally detachments and groups of specific formations that grant further rules.

If you're a painter I'd go Harleys with Eldar. They're cool and would provide something neat to paint (racing stripes, checkers, think pretty Orc vehicles). Otherwise I'm all Chaos. If I wasn't Chaos though I'd Tau it up for sure.

Regarding big guys (Titans): ITC Q3 survey just finished and they're banning Titans. Individual tournament organizers can make the judgement call and still hold ITC events but the main show (LVO) is going titan-less at a 2-1 vote against.

One last thing. Do not forget the psychic phase. It is one of the most significant factors in 7th right now. I guarantee adjustments are coming with 8th (TSons rules seem lack luster, but if thr psychic phase drops or changes how warp charges work or how powers are handled we could see shenanigans) but at the moment the boosts from Powers are so significant you can't ignore them.

Hope this helps!

Allies were a thing back then, but they are very, very different now.

Formations are where you take certain units and get a bunch of special rules for free. What you're thinking about is squadrons, which usually come with their own special rules attached.

Almost every army has their own lord of war or superheavy vehicle available from GW (though FW still make a bunch too).

As for the best place to pick stuff up again, just wander back into your local GW or local gaming shop and they should be able to sort you out fairly quickly.

As for cool new armies, well, as mentioned, thousand sons got a new release, including a plastic daemon primarch Magnus, so that's got quite a few people talking (though saying they're good is probably stretching the truth a bit). Skitari and Adeptus Mechanicus have a bunch of kits and seperate books. Imperial Knights have half a dozen different models and variations of big stompy robot. Harlequins are their own army again, as are genestealer cults. All signs point towards plastic sisters in 2017 (for really realz this time though). Khorne got a release that allows you to take mortals, marines and daemons in the same army. Deathwatch has their own codex and special rules along with a handful of special models.

It's been a pretty crazy year for new releases with GW digging deep into their nostalgia bucket and actually giving people what they want (mostly).

 Drasius wrote:
Allies were a thing back then, but they are very, very different now.

Formations are where you take certain units and get a bunch of special rules for free. What you're thinking about is squadrons, which usually come with their own special rules attached.

Almost every army has their own lord of war or superheavy vehicle available from GW (though FW still make a bunch too).

As for the best place to pick stuff up again, just wander back into your local GW or local gaming shop and they should be able to sort you out fairly quickly.

As for cool new armies, well, as mentioned, thousand sons got a new release, including a plastic daemon primarch Magnus, so that's got quite a few people talking (though saying they're good is probably stretching the truth a bit). Skitari and Adeptus Mechanicus have a bunch of kits and seperate books. Imperial Knights have half a dozen different models and variations of big stompy robot. Harlequins are their own army again, as are genestealer cults. All signs point towards plastic sisters in 2017 (for really realz this time though). Khorne got a release that allows you to take mortals, marines and daemons in the same army. Deathwatch has their own codex and special rules along with a handful of special models.

It's been a pretty crazy year for new releases with GW digging deep into their nostalgia bucket and actually giving people what they want (mostly).

That is interesting regarding the formations stuff. Seems almost like Warhammer Fantasy re squat/formation rules? Again that is something I haven't touched in probably 15 years.

The Thousand Sons look cool. When I was getting out of the game I was actually really looking to build out a Thousand Sons army for almost entirely creative purposes because I wanted to hobble together some sick thousand sons terminators.

I may end up going back to Eldar as it was what I was most familiar with and aligned most with on a strategy basis. The only other army I ever really enjoyed playing with was Imperial because of the platoon structure. I used to run 12+ lascannons just in my troop selections.

I have a couple old school Harlequin jetbike canopies laying around so I need to find a way to get more. I don't think you can top those.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tamwulf wrote:
A detachment is a force organization, such as 1 HQ, 2 Troops and up to one more HQ, 4 Troops, 3 Elites, 3 Fast Attack, 3 Heavy support, 1 fortification, and 1 Lord of War. This one is the standard Combined Arms Detachment, and if you use it, you may re-roll your Warlord Trait and your troops gain Objective Secured. There are many detachments found throughout all the current codexes.

A formation is a specific grouping of select units that gain certain bonuses for being in the same formation.

Several formations can be included in a detachment. Indeed, most of the Space Marine detachments require several formations.

There is also the detachment that no one speaks of, for it is the path of madness: It's called Unbound. The only restriction for this detachment is the points level you are playing. Want to bring a Hive Tyrant, unit of Terminators, Tau Crisis Suits in one army? Use Unbound. Wanna see what 2,000 points of Wraith Knights will do on the table? Play Unbound. It's not often used or welcomed, especially at tournaments.

The game has changed significantly in 10 years. Army creation is probably the biggest change with detachments and formations. Close Combat has changed significantly with the introduction of random charge ranges and over watch. Your best bet would be to travel to your local FLGS, and watch a couple games and ask questions.

Good luck! 8th Edition is next year! The Sigmification of 40K, and the return of the Primarchs and Emperor!

I don't remember the name but this almost seems like a smaller scale version of the behemoth like 20k point battles with several "armies" / "detachments" that each abide by the normal force organization construct. The Detachment concept I guess is what I'm used to as a generic "army" for the purposes of 6th edition (or 5th? don't remember what number we were at)

Yes a lot has changed. Thing is, a new edition is coming in about 6 months from now so will change again.

So question is, do you want to just buy minis and borrow rules from friends, or buy rules that will be in most cases invalidated in June.

Davor wrote:
Yes a lot has changed. Thing is, a new edition is coming in about 6 months from now so will change again.

So question is, do you want to just buy minis and borrow rules from friends, or buy rules that will be in most cases invalidated in June.

I guess I will just wait until June

Is it standard/acceptable to use all of the ancillary formations found across Imperial Armour, White Dwarf, etc? Or is the norm to only use the codex formation then anything else is agreed upon?

I come from the time when essentially you weren't allowed to use Imperial Armour or non-codex lists.

Davor wrote:
Yes a lot has changed. Thing is, a new edition is coming in about 6 months from now so will change again.

So question is, do you want to just buy minis and borrow rules from friends, or buy rules that will be in most cases invalidated in June.

Davor, do you have a source? I've seen no reliable source state a new edition is coming then.

 jreilly89 wrote:

Davor wrote:
Yes a lot has changed. Thing is, a new edition is coming in about 6 months from now so will change again.

So question is, do you want to just buy minis and borrow rules from friends, or buy rules that will be in most cases invalidated in June.

Davor, do you have a source? I've seen no reliable source state a new edition is coming then.

Actual proof? No. But I am going by what I am reading on Dakka News and Rumours forum where a lot of people are saying it's most likely it's going to happen. 30th anniversary is coming. GW even said they have big plans for the upcoming year. Natfka, BoLS, and of course if they can't be taken serious as people will suggest we have Warseer, Dakka, Lady Atia, all have mentioned it one way or the other.

I was able to find my license # for Army Builder and am just playing around figuring out the new squad structure stuff. Between that and the various guides I think the structure of the detachment/formation system is starting to make sense (though I'm not a fan at least in reading).

It looks like the hornets have replaced the Vyper as a fast skimmer to crush terminators and vehicles (without having to be open-topped).

War-walkers are useless now that falcons and fire prisms come in squads (throwing guide on 6 starcannons used to be my fav).

I'm liking the Night Spinner more than the Fire Prism (assuming you have anti-tank elsewhere).

It also seems like the Crimson Death formation is great, albeit expensive depending on the size of the game you are playing. Seems like Hornets w/ Pulse Lasers are a cheaper/better bet?

I need to read more into the changes to the psychic powers, the "psychic phase" seems exponentially more complicated. I do like that they kept the seer council. Nothing is more fun than a jetbike council and with the hornets you you can guide fast moving pulse lasers (seems like another plus).

1,750 Pt CAD List (from just messing around for the last couple hours)

1 Farseer Skyrunner - Spirit Stone + Singing Spear
1 Farseer Skyrunner - Singing Spear
6 Windriders - All w/ Scatter Lasers
6 Windriders - All w/ Scatter Lasers
3 Hornets - All w/ Pulse Lasers + Holo Fields
3 Hornets - All w/ Pulse Lasers + Holo Fields
3 Night Spinners - Stock
3 Night Spinners - Stock





Automatically Appended Next Post:

BankisLyfe wrote:
I was able to find my license # for Army Builder and am just playing around figuring out the new squad structure stuff. Between that and the various guides I think the structure of the detachment/formation system is starting to make sense (though I'm not a fan at least in reading).

It looks like the hornets have replaced the Vyper as a fast skimmer to crush terminators and vehicles (without having to be open-topped).

War-walkers are useless now that falcons and fire prisms come in squads (throwing guide on 6 starcannons used to be my fav).

I'm liking the Night Spinner more than the Fire Prism (assuming you have anti-tank elsewhere).

It also seems like the Crimson Death formation is great, albeit expensive depending on the size of the game you are playing. Seems like Hornets w/ Pulse Lasers are a cheaper/better bet?

I need to read more into the changes to the psychic powers, the "psychic phase" seems exponentially more complicated. I do like that they kept the seer council. Nothing is more fun than a jetbike council and with the hornets you you can guide fast moving pulse lasers (seems like another plus).

1,750 Pt CAD List (from just messing around for the last couple hours)

1 Farseer Skyrunner - Spirit Stone + Singing Spear
1 Farseer Skyrunner - Singing Spear
6 Windriders - All w/ Scatter Lasers
6 Windriders - All w/ Scatter Lasers
3 Hornets - All w/ Pulse Lasers + Holo Fields
3 Hornets - All w/ Pulse Lasers + Holo Fields
3 Night Spinners - Stock
3 Night Spinners - Stock

One immediate question would be on the formations/detachments rules. Can the different formations be taken outside of the Craftworld War Host? Is the Doom of Mymaera / Pale Courts thing a standard list? I guess if its Imperial Armour like the Hornets you get them both or none? I just feel like using Eldar and resorting to CAD takes some of the fun out of it and you don't get all of the special benefits.


I'm trying to figure out how to work within the Craftworld Detachment but am not a fan of the guardian/windrider formations. I don't like odd numbers of jetbikes and in having hornets now I don't want Vypers at all so being forced to use one is annoying. Though loading up the whole formation with shuriken cannons could be fun for a turn