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 Sentinel1 wrote:


But you must agree it is an interesting time to live in, everything political is upside down! Rights in, USA, UK, THEME IN EUROPEAN STATES, Out is all the Left wingers, who across the board are struggling to fight back. And now its no longer the Right Wingers on the Aggression, the Liberal Lefties are the ones out of control, if anything actions such as Berkeley will sway more people against them and towards Conservatism. So at the moment as I see it, the Left is struggling to find a footing for resistance, whilst individual groups go over the top and shoot Liberalism in the foot

Your country hasn't had a "left" leader since Blair usurped the Labour movement. America has never been left. What's happening, is the "right" has increasingly been going down the path to authoritarianism. Isolated incidents like Berkely do not paint the whole of the "left", any more than the Westboro Baptists paint the whole of the "right".

 feeder wrote:
Looks like Christian values and respect for thedead is an item of history with Christians, courtesy of the followers there.
Nothing like a little hate speech, intolerance and disrepect to promote Christ, in a bigoted kind of way.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/06/16/westboro-church-protest-orlando-shooting-victims-funerals/86013966/

The aren't' Christians. They are an extended family that makes its living from suits against people who interfere with their protests.

The sweeping generalizations are about to get this thread locked, folks... if you want it open, make your arguments politely and without insulting vast people groups of any stripe, please...

 Sentinel1 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Sentinel1 wrote:
Certainly from Trumps point of view I don't see why he should honour the agreement

Because part of being able to make deals with other nations is having a reputation for being trustworthy. If every other country knows that any deals they make with the US are subject to change as soon as a new president comes in then why should they bother making a deal in the first place? Are those ~1000 refugees really such an unacceptable burden on the US that it's worth trashing our reputation and sacrificing our future bargaining power to avoid them?

And let's not overlook the fact that this is Australia we're talking about. You know, a close ally that we actually care about, not some irrelevant minor country that can be discarded at will if it's convenient to do business elsewhere. Breaking a deal, in a spectacularly public and insulting manner, is just unbelievable incompetence. It's absolutely inexcusable that the president of the US would be such an arrogant clown.

As he said, he is putting America first, so hopefully that should mean no foreign appeasement for a change.

No you completely missed my point, I am not disagreeing that the USA shouldn't honour agreements, I was questioning the morality of the deal in the first place. Here are 1,250 who landed in Australia seeking refuge there, the Ausies don't want them so make a deal with Obama to get rid of them. Is it not wrong for Australia to treat them in this way? Surely said deal makes them as bad as Trump on such matters. Regarding honouring the agreement, many politicians when coming to power scrap or U-turn policies they have never agreed with. Whether Trump can force this one through, I don't know.

That is a fair point, however Trump isn't challenging the deal on the grounds of morals, he is just being a massive dick as usual.

The thread is about US politics.

 RiTides wrote:
The sweeping generalizations are about to get this thread locked, folks... if you want it open, make your arguments politely and without insulting vast people groups of any stripe, please...

Its ok to make fun of cat people though, right? After all, they're all hollow inside.

And of course the terrorzone that is Leichtenstein, real life inspiration for Tolkein's Mordor.

Behold, the terror field lands of Leuchtenstein!
http://www.touristmaker.com/liechtenstein/

In other news: Pence may make first vote as VP to overcome potential deadlock over Education Secretary nominee:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4184606/VP-Pence-break-tie-deVos-confirmed.html

 Frazzled wrote:


In other news: Pence may make first vote as VP to overcome potential deadlock over Education Secretary nominee:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4184606/VP-Pence-break-tie-deVos-confirmed.html

may have to cats a tie-breaking vote

Herzlos wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
[

East Berlin.
Korean DMZ.
These walls worked quite well.

However, as noted, an in depth security screen would be better at both interdicting human trafficking and drug trafficking.

The Berlin wall didn't work that well though; loads of folk crossed it either one-way or for day trips, despite it being heavily manned.

There's no way Trumps wall will work.

Of course it won't work. It isn't intended to work. There's no way the "working" can be measured.

The point of the wall is to pander to Trump's core bigot constituency by a huge policy announcement that (A) promises to stop immigration, and (B) sticks it to those yucky Mexicans.

 jasper76 wrote:
If this behavior is typical, and if I should expect adult college students to act like 3 year olds, maybe I need to move even deeper into the woods.

That's the bad solution. The good solution is to move to Switzerland. You will get nice people, nice scenery, very good chocolate, and H.R. Giger's museum.
Also you'll get:
- Debates on gun control that are appeased, with very little acrimony
- Direct democracy
- A country that isn't extremely polarized between two sides that hate the gut out of each other
- Real cheese. This is Europe, goddamit.

Herzlos wrote:
but a wall is just a total waste of time unless you cease all interaction with Mexico and shoot anyone that goes anywhere near it.

I guess that would be the plan then. Why do you believe that Trump wouldn't do that? That totally seems like something completely irrational and stupid, it fits the description perfectly.

 RiTides wrote:
The sweeping generalizations are about to get this thread locked, folks... if you want it open, make your arguments politely and without insulting vast people groups of any stripe, please...

So that means anyone defending Trump's ban is breaking the rules? Because that is what this ban is all about.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
If this behavior is typical, and if I should expect adult college students to act like 3 year olds, maybe I need to move even deeper into the woods.

That's the bad solution. The good solution is to move to Switzerland. You will get nice people, nice scenery, very good chocolate, and H.R. Giger's museum.
Also you'll get:
- Debates on gun control that are appeased, with very little acrimony
- Direct democracy
- A country that isn't extremely polarized between two sides that hate the gut out of each other
- Real cheese. This is Europe, goddamit.

At least until Trump pulls out of NATO...

 Kilkrazy wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
[

East Berlin.
Korean DMZ.
These walls worked quite well.

However, as noted, an in depth security screen would be better at both interdicting human trafficking and drug trafficking.

The Berlin wall didn't work that well though; loads of folk crossed it either one-way or for day trips, despite it being heavily manned.

There's no way Trumps wall will work.

Of course it won't work. It isn't intended to work. There's no way the "working" can be measured.

The point of the wall is to pander to Trump's core bigot constituency by a huge policy announcement that (A) promises to stop immigration, and (B) sticks it to those yucky Mexicans.

Can we get off this train of people who don't like illegal immigration being bigots? I mean hell, another one of you mods just said cut out with the generalizations.

 Frazzled wrote:

Its ok to make fun of cat people though, right? After all, they're all hollow inside.

Step off dude, the Cat People rocks!

 Kilkrazy wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
[

East Berlin.
Korean DMZ.
These walls worked quite well.

However, as noted, an in depth security screen would be better at both interdicting human trafficking and drug trafficking.

The Berlin wall didn't work that well though; loads of folk crossed it either one-way or for day trips, despite it being heavily manned.

There's no way Trumps wall will work.

Of course it won't work. It isn't intended to work. There's no way the "working" can be measured.

The point of the wall is to pander to Trump's core bigot constituency by a huge policy announcement that (A) promises to stop immigration, and (B) sticks it to those yucky Mexicans.

Its interesting how your post is an attack on millions of Americans. It would be more effective if GB had allowed 5mm or so illegal immigrants into its country. If not, please tell us more about racism and xenophobia? Canada can call us on it. Britain, Europe, Asia, Japan, Central America, mmmm no.

 whembly wrote:
Just don't wear your MAGA hats on these protests/riots/crybaby-fest:

A woman wearing a #Trump-style hat was pepper sprayed at #UCBerkeley protests. She & @WayneFreedman are alright: https://t.co/g7WofodFyD pic.twitter.com/JD3Bt1y7rE

— ABC7 News (@abc7newsbayarea) February 2, 2017

...you just might eat some pepper spray in the face.

Isn't it strange to call these people "crybabies" and paint them as weaklings when what they do is organise to attack their enemies? Like, when Spencer got punched people started being all "the attacker was a cuck!!" and dug up someone completely different who was heavily into sexual humiliation and it turned out had even died two years ago to paint the puncher as supposedly a simpering wuss (I am of the opinion that it would only have made him cooler, really). But... he beat your dude. He beat your dude so bad, he has publicly said he fears for his movement if they aren't able to defend themselves. The goal was to get him to go away and he went away. A small victory but a victory none the less.

These crybabies, as you say, organised and braved the police in order to drive away Yiannopolous and Trump supporters. They have so far succeeded in this and had the support of the masses of other protesters. Hundreds of young leftists have now been given a taste of successful direct organising to protect their community. If this is weakness, them coming into strength would probably make you faint.

(sorry, double-post)

Rosebuddy wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Just don't wear your MAGA hats on these protests/riots/crybaby-fest:

A woman wearing a #Trump-style hat was pepper sprayed at #UCBerkeley protests. She & @WayneFreedman are alright: https://t.co/g7WofodFyD pic.twitter.com/JD3Bt1y7rE

— ABC7 News (@abc7newsbayarea) February 2, 2017

...you just might eat some pepper spray in the face.

Isn't it strange to call these people "crybabies" and paint them as weaklings when what they do is organise to attack their enemies? Like, when Spencer got punched people started being all "the attacker was a cuck!!" and dug up someone completely different who was heavily into sexual humiliation and it turned out had even died two years ago to paint the puncher as supposedly a simpering wuss (I am of the opinion that it would only have made him cooler, really). But... he beat your dude. He beat your dude so bad, he has publicly said he fears for his movement if they aren't able to defend themselves. The goal was to get him to go away and he went away. A small victory but a victory none the less.

These crybabies, as you say, organised and braved the police in order to drive away Yiannopolous and Trump supporters. They have so far succeeded in this and had the support of the masses of other protesters. Hundreds of young leftists have now been given a taste of successful direct organising to protect their community. If this is weakness, them coming into strength would probably make you faint.

In other cities of course it would end with a couple of loads of buckshot and all the survivors arrested. Throw a rock...meh. Throw a firebomb-time to engage targets as lethal threats to the police and others.

Rosebuddy wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Just don't wear your MAGA hats on these protests/riots/crybaby-fest:

A woman wearing a #Trump-style hat was pepper sprayed at #UCBerkeley protests. She & @WayneFreedman are alright: https://t.co/g7WofodFyD pic.twitter.com/JD3Bt1y7rE

— ABC7 News (@abc7newsbayarea) February 2, 2017

...you just might eat some pepper spray in the face.

Isn't it strange to call these people "crybabies" and paint them as weaklings when what they do is organise to attack their enemies? Like, when Spencer got punched people started being all "the attacker was a cuck!!" and dug up someone completely different who was heavily into sexual humiliation and it turned out had even died two years ago to paint the puncher as supposedly a simpering wuss (I am of the opinion that it would only have made him cooler, really). But... he beat your dude. He beat your dude so bad, he has publicly said he fears for his movement if they aren't able to defend themselves. The goal was to get him to go away and he went away. A small victory but a victory none the less.

These crybabies, as you say, organised and braved the police in order to drive away Yiannopolous and Trump supporters. They have so far succeeded in this and had the support of the masses of other protesters. Hundreds of young leftists have now been given a taste of successful direct organising to protect their community. If this is weakness, them coming into strength would probably make you faint.

Yep, no evidence whatsoever in a rise in violent attitudes and actions from the left. Free speech and the right to peacefully assemble safe and sound!

 jasper76 wrote:
At least until Trump pulls out of NATO.

I am going to ask you to develop here, because I really can't see any kind of connection.
For reference, Switzerland isn't part of NATO, is surrounded by friendly European countries, and is one of the rare country where “defense” isn't an euphemize. It went through WWI and WWII completely unscathed, for two reasons: it was never considered a threat due to their very strict principle of neutrality, and it was just extremely well defended.
There is really no reason to imagine Switzerland having any problem with NATO disappearing.

Is this just a display of the usual US arrogance, believing themselves essential to the rest of the world, or is there something I am missing?

Rosebuddy wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Just don't wear your MAGA hats on these protests/riots/crybaby-fest:

A woman wearing a #Trump-style hat was pepper sprayed at #UCBerkeley protests. She & @WayneFreedman are alright: https://t.co/g7WofodFyD pic.twitter.com/JD3Bt1y7rE

— ABC7 News (@abc7newsbayarea) February 2, 2017

...you just might eat some pepper spray in the face.

Isn't it strange to call these people "crybabies" and paint them as weaklings when what they do is organise to attack their enemies? Like, when Spencer got punched people started being all "the attacker was a cuck!!" and dug up someone completely different who was heavily into sexual humiliation and it turned out had even died two years ago to paint the puncher as supposedly a simpering wuss (I am of the opinion that it would only have made him cooler, really). But... he beat your dude. He beat your dude so bad, he has publicly said he fears for his movement if they aren't able to defend themselves. The goal was to get him to go away and he went away. A small victory but a victory none the less.

These crybabies, as you say, organised and braved the police in order to drive away Yiannopolous and Trump supporters. They have so far succeeded in this and had the support of the masses of other protesters. Hundreds of young leftists have now been given a taste of successful direct organising to protect their community. If this is weakness, them coming into strength would probably make you faint.

It *is* weakness when you won't tolerate dissenting views.

 jasper76 wrote:
(sorry, double-post)

Just an OT piece of advice. Don't delete a post if you double post. It's just the forum having a hiccup. It will correct itself in a few minutes and delete the extra post. If you delete one posts texts, the text is gone FOREVER!

*ominous music*

 whembly wrote:

Rosebuddy wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Just don't wear your MAGA hats on these protests/riots/crybaby-fest:

A woman wearing a #Trump-style hat was pepper sprayed at #UCBerkeley protests. She & @WayneFreedman are alright: https://t.co/g7WofodFyD pic.twitter.com/JD3Bt1y7rE

— ABC7 News (@abc7newsbayarea) February 2, 2017

...you just might eat some pepper spray in the face.

Isn't it strange to call these people "crybabies" and paint them as weaklings when what they do is organise to attack their enemies? Like, when Spencer got punched people started being all "the attacker was a cuck!!" and dug up someone completely different who was heavily into sexual humiliation and it turned out had even died two years ago to paint the puncher as supposedly a simpering wuss (I am of the opinion that it would only have made him cooler, really). But... he beat your dude. He beat your dude so bad, he has publicly said he fears for his movement if they aren't able to defend themselves. The goal was to get him to go away and he went away. A small victory but a victory none the less.

These crybabies, as you say, organised and braved the police in order to drive away Yiannopolous and Trump supporters. They have so far succeeded in this and had the support of the masses of other protesters. Hundreds of young leftists have now been given a taste of successful direct organising to protect their community. If this is weakness, them coming into strength would probably make you faint.

It *is* weakness when you won't tolerate dissenting views.

Why should we tolerate nazis?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
At least until Trump pulls out of NATO.

I am going to ask you to develop here, because I really can't see any kind of connection.
For reference, Switzerland isn't part of NATO, is surrounded by friendly European countries, and is one of the rare country where “defense” isn't an euphemize. It went through WWI and WWII completely unscathed, for two reasons: it was never considered a threat due to their very strict principle of neutrality, and it was just extremely well defended.
There is really no reason to imagine Switzerland having any problem with NATO disappearing.

Is this just a display of the usual US arrogance, believing themselves essential to the rest of the world, or is there something I am missing?

I am suggesting that your defense and security is in no small part provided for by the United States' contribution to the NATO alliance. If stating facts is US arrogance, than color me arrogant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
(sorry, double-post)

Just an OT piece of advice. Don't delete a post if you double post. It's just the forum having a hiccup. It will correct itself in a few minutes and delete the extra post. If you delete one posts texts, the text is gone FOREVER!

*ominous music*

Thanks! This has happened to me several times. Next time I'll just be patient

 kronk wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
(sorry, double-post)

Just an OT piece of advice. Don't delete a post if you double post. It's just the forum having a hiccup. It will correct itself in a few minutes and delete the extra post. If you delete one posts texts, the text is gone FOREVER!

*ominous music*

It's the secret "PreBane" function that Lego has been building into the software leaking out. It removes your post before it ever actually gets posted.

 Frazzled wrote:

 feeder wrote:
Looks like Christian values and respect for thedead is an item of history with Christians, courtesy of the followers there.
Nothing like a little hate speech, intolerance and disrepect to promote Christ, in a bigoted kind of way.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/06/16/westboro-church-protest-orlando-shooting-victims-funerals/86013966/

The aren't' Christians. They are an extended family that makes its living from suits against people who interfere with their protests.

So is it okay to refer to ISIS as 'not really Muslim'?

Just because someone uses religion as a justification doesn't make them representative of a religion, but it doesn't necessarily mean they aren't a member of it. There's really not much of an entrance exam.

 jasper76 wrote:

Yep, no evidence whatsoever in a rise in violent attitudes and actions from the left

There is indeed more violent leftist action the past few weeks.. But that is a mere observation. It's also obviously one that my post is based on. I don't contradict any claims of leftists starting to beat Trump supporters. I simply point out that doing so is not a sign of weakness.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
At least until Trump pulls out of NATO.

I am going to ask you to develop here, because I really can't see any kind of connection.
For reference, Switzerland isn't part of NATO, is surrounded by friendly European countries, and is one of the rare country where “defense” isn't an euphemize. It went through WWI and WWII completely unscathed, for two reasons: it was never considered a threat due to their very strict principle of neutrality, and it was just extremely well defended.
There is really no reason to imagine Switzerland having any problem with NATO disappearing.

Is this just a display of the usual US arrogance, believing themselves essential to the rest of the world, or is there something I am missing?

He's snarking...

Trump won't pull out over the objections of many people he holds in high regards (ie, SoD Mattis, SoS Tillerman). He's just blowhard'ing...

Rosebuddy wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

Yep, no evidence whatsoever in a rise in violent attitudes and actions from the left

There is indeed more violent leftist action the past few weeks.. But that is a mere observation. It's also obviously one that my post is based on. I don't contradict any claims of leftists starting to beat Trump supporters. I simply point out that doing so is not a sign of weakness.

To me, it is indeed a sign of an underlying weakness. When people can't win the battle of ideas, they sometimes resort to other methods; in this case, violence, destruction, and mayhem.

 Ustrello wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Rosebuddy wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Just don't wear your MAGA hats on these protests/riots/crybaby-fest:

A woman wearing a #Trump-style hat was pepper sprayed at #UCBerkeley protests. She & @WayneFreedman are alright: https://t.co/g7WofodFyD pic.twitter.com/JD3Bt1y7rE

— ABC7 News (@abc7newsbayarea) February 2, 2017

...you just might eat some pepper spray in the face.

Isn't it strange to call these people "crybabies" and paint them as weaklings when what they do is organise to attack their enemies? Like, when Spencer got punched people started being all "the attacker was a cuck!!" and dug up someone completely different who was heavily into sexual humiliation and it turned out had even died two years ago to paint the puncher as supposedly a simpering wuss (I am of the opinion that it would only have made him cooler, really). But... he beat your dude. He beat your dude so bad, he has publicly said he fears for his movement if they aren't able to defend themselves. The goal was to get him to go away and he went away. A small victory but a victory none the less.

These crybabies, as you say, organised and braved the police in order to drive away Yiannopolous and Trump supporters. They have so far succeeded in this and had the support of the masses of other protesters. Hundreds of young leftists have now been given a taste of successful direct organising to protect their community. If this is weakness, them coming into strength would probably make you faint.

It *is* weakness when you won't tolerate dissenting views.

Why should we tolerate nazis?

So dissenting views are nazisms...

...and you see the problem here?

 Ustrello wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Rosebuddy wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Just don't wear your MAGA hats on these protests/riots/crybaby-fest:

A woman wearing a #Trump-style hat was pepper sprayed at #UCBerkeley protests. She & @WayneFreedman are alright: https://t.co/g7WofodFyD pic.twitter.com/JD3Bt1y7rE

— ABC7 News (@abc7newsbayarea) February 2, 2017

...you just might eat some pepper spray in the face.

Isn't it strange to call these people "crybabies" and paint them as weaklings when what they do is organise to attack their enemies? Like, when Spencer got punched people started being all "the attacker was a cuck!!" and dug up someone completely different who was heavily into sexual humiliation and it turned out had even died two years ago to paint the puncher as supposedly a simpering wuss (I am of the opinion that it would only have made him cooler, really). But... he beat your dude. He beat your dude so bad, he has publicly said he fears for his movement if they aren't able to defend themselves. The goal was to get him to go away and he went away. A small victory but a victory none the less.

These crybabies, as you say, organised and braved the police in order to drive away Yiannopolous and Trump supporters. They have so far succeeded in this and had the support of the masses of other protesters. Hundreds of young leftists have now been given a taste of successful direct organising to protect their community. If this is weakness, them coming into strength would probably make you faint.

It *is* weakness when you won't tolerate dissenting views.

Why should we tolerate nazis?

Oh come on, that's from the sublime to the extreme! Where did you pull that one out of? Is this debate spiralling down a black hole now?

Specific:

If a guy wears an arm badge and makes a Nazi-esque salute, he's a fething Nazi and should be called one.

General:

If someone has a differing opinion from you, it's possible he's a Nazi, but unless he's making the salute, wearing the uniform, or quoting Mein Kamph, maybe don't call him one.

 Spinner wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 feeder wrote:
Looks like Christian values and respect for thedead is an item of history with Christians, courtesy of the followers there.
Nothing like a little hate speech, intolerance and disrepect to promote Christ, in a bigoted kind of way.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/06/16/westboro-church-protest-orlando-shooting-victims-funerals/86013966/

The aren't' Christians. They are an extended family that makes its living from suits against people who interfere with their protests.

So is it okay to refer to ISIS as 'not really Muslim'?

Just because someone uses religion as a justification doesn't make them representative of a religion, but it doesn't necessarily mean they aren't a member of it. There's really not much of an entrance exam.

When ISIL does activities that aren't motivated by their religion its not religious. Westboro (remember we are talking ONE extended family that could all live in a trailer park) is not suing etc because of freedom or church, they are suing to get money in settlements. Its how they earn their living.

Also LOTS of people argue ISIL is not Moslem, but effectively an apostasy, as real Muslims don't go cutting of heads and " and that if you do you have violated His word and Insulting His teachings. There is great merit in it.