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I feel like the deathwatch needs an update even though it's only a few months old. They're missing champions, apothecaries and some other things. Technically they should have devastator squads but the veterans sort of do the same thing.

Hmmm that's an interesting point
Champions - isn't that role filled by blackshields?
Apothecaries yes ok some FNP would be nice for the deathwatch
Technically you're right veterans with heavy weapons are better devastators - can devastators take frag cannons?
I think if you filled them out too much they would just become another marine chapter - their specialities are what make them interesting imo.
I can see where you're coming from but I think the deathwatch can cope with most things as they're meant to in the fluff - the only thing they're missing really is long range firepower but every army needs a weakness, and I think that and the small model count makes deathwatch more of an elite army for the more experienced player, rather than just being a marine chapter specializing in killing xenos

They desperately need Techmarines. In the RPG the Techmarine was one of the most essential classes for a mixed covert kill team to have since they could go into any number of xenos worlds with their own technology that needs to be hacked or bypassed.

Apothacaries are also needed for long term missions.

There was a DW champion prestige class in one of the rpg's if I recall correctly. They are almost never deployed off Watch Fortress and are instead the only permanent guards at the fortress or a critical stasis vault in the fortress.

I would also like to see some more DW exclusive vehicles and weapons that shows off their high tech compared to the regular forces of the Imperium.

I knew I forgot something. Techmarines were something else I was going to point out.

Also new apothecaries would be nice.

TBH more deathwatch specific vehicles such as the Corvus would be awesome!

If anyone should be rocking hover tanks/vehicles in the Imperium in 40k it's the Deathwatch. Stealth ground transport would be cool that hovers. It would only fit 6 marines though. A more shooty tank then a Predator that hovers. Finally we need to get some crazy dumb Dread Knight. They need a cool giant walker of some kind since its 40k tradition at this point. I kinda of imagine it looking like a mechwarrior timberwolf with arms and axes.

Apothecaries and Techmarines should be in there - they should be attached like to units like with 30k Apothecaries.

Another things would be to change what Blackshields can carry (or at least not hardcap it to the two swords) and allow Watch Captains and Masters to carry more and be differently equipped (jump packs, Bikes, TDA, etc etc)

Being forced to attach doesn't make sense (not familiar with 30k). The DW are more flexible than any other force in Imperium. Sometimes missions require Apothcaries or even Techpriests to peel off from the main squad to do something while they make a distraction or are waiting for one of them to do something mission critical.

They should have the option, but not be forced to do that.

I agree to having more options for black shields, captains, and masters.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Apothecaries and Techmarines should be in there - they should be attached like to units like with 30k Apothecaries.

Another things would be to change what Blackshields can carry (or at least not hardcap it to the two swords) and allow Watch Captains and Masters to carry more and be differently equipped (jump packs, Bikes, TDA, etc etc)

You can have them with other stuff. I think.

Also, Deathwatch scouts.

 Gamgee wrote:
If anyone should be rocking hover tanks/vehicles in the Imperium in 40k it's the Deathwatch. Stealth ground transport would be cool that hovers. It would only fit 6 marines though. A more shooty tank then a Predator that hovers. Finally we need to get some crazy dumb Dread Knight. They need a cool giant walker of some kind since its 40k tradition at this point. I kinda of imagine it looking like a mechwarrior timberwolf with arms and axes.

Almost like the Custodes? I guess they get the guardian spears

And deathwatch scouts would be completely awesome

An actual terminator kit would be nice as well.

I agree they left a lot out that seems odd chaplain can't take TDA? They really need a better upgrade sprue. No aux melta fist? Jump vets can take blood angels hand flamers and fusion pistols as can any vet. Perhaps a assault upgrade sprue. 2 of each pistol 2 melta fists terminator shoulder pads and 2 smaller DW storm shields. And a stalker bolt gun not being reloaded?

Gamgee wrote:If anyone should be rocking hover tanks/vehicles in the Imperium in 40k it's the Deathwatch. Stealth ground transport would be cool that hovers. It would only fit 6 marines though. A more shooty tank then a Predator that hovers. Finally we need to get some crazy dumb Dread Knight. They need a cool giant walker of some kind since its 40k tradition at this point. I kinda of imagine it looking like a mechwarrior timberwolf with arms and axes.

I don't think they need hover tanks. It's nowhere in DW lore, and the role of fast moving transport is occupied by the Corvus Blackstar. Not to mention that they are plenty other faction who could have hover tanks too if that were the case (Inquisition, Grey Knights). Just the Custodes is fine.

And no, the Deathwatch do not need a mech. It doesn't fit their fluff, and it doesn't have any basis in any lore book. Dreadnoughts fill that role.

Gamgee wrote:Being forced to attach doesn't make sense (not familiar with 30k). The DW are more flexible than any other force in Imperium. Sometimes missions require Apothcaries or even Techpriests to peel off from the main squad to do something while they make a distraction or are waiting for one of them to do something mission critical.

They should have the option, but not be forced to do that.

If that's the case, then why can't I have my Blackshield split off and engage a weakened unit alone? Why can't my frag cannon specialist engage a different target to the rest of the squad, if they're so flexible?

For simplicities sake, the 30k method works.


Deathwatch Scouts would just be normal Deathwatch vets in 4+ armour with the Scout and Infiltrate rules. Probably best to make them like Terminator squads.

Ooh. That's sounds awesome. A lone sniper scoring a headshot on a magus.

Stick in the mud says they shouldn't have anything interesting or new that makes us see them in a new light. Yeah and before the Corvus existed I told people they should have something very similar to that and people got mad "they don't need ANY custom vehicles the Stormraven is all they need or a Thunderhawk". Not on this forum but a lot on the internet and even in real life.

I'm getting real sick of being told that stuff doesn't work or won't happen or fit into the lore when it can easily be expanded. The Corvus is one of the DW most popular models and a best seller. I'm not looking for something as ridiculous looking ad a DreadKnight, but a small mech a little larger than a dreadnought would work wonders for all the large Xenos monsters out there especially trying to fight Tau suits.

I'm going to have to doubt your opinion as very... boring.

Right but a black shield is just an ordinary member of the kill team with a mysterious past. Techmarines and Apothecaries are very specialized and often need to be away from the team itself.

Scouts would be cool to see. In the rpg there was even needler snipers as distinct weapons from stalker pattern. It would be cool to see dedicated DW snipers who have a much larger anti-material rifle than the typical stalker pattern.

Old skool wrist mount grenade launchers would be cool. As for vehicles a new tank would be nice. But I always pictured them slamming into the ground drop pod style, only to be picked up mission complete. Failure being worse than death and all. A legitimate terminator squad and bike squad would be nice. The white scars biker has a blinged out gun/faring regular bikes upgrade+ sprue=lame. Same for terminators. And why do vanguards nor get specialist ammo but ground guys do in their pistols? Same for stormbolters even if it was pick ammo type for whole game why would they not have special ammo?

 Gamgee wrote:
Stick in the mud says they shouldn't have anything interesting or new that makes us see them in a new light. Yeah and before the Corvus existed I told people they should have something very similar to that and people got mad "they don't need ANY custom vehicles the Stormraven is all they need or a Thunderhawk". Not on this forum but a lot on the internet and even in real life.

Thanks for the slightly insulting label, much appreciated.
Interesting is subjective - I wasn't aware having a floating tank or a mech suit made a faction interesting as per fact. I guess the Eldar and Tau must be absolutely fascinating.
Speaking of interesting, how did the Dreadknight make the Grey Knights interesting? I'd very much like to know.

Purely hypothetically, why do the Deathwatch need the Corvus? What can it do that the Stormraven can't?

I'm getting real sick of being told that stuff doesn't work or won't happen or fit into the lore when it can easily be expanded. The Corvus is one of the DW most popular models and a best seller. I'm not looking for something as ridiculous looking ad a DreadKnight, but a small mech a little larger than a dreadnought would work wonders for all the large Xenos monsters out there especially trying to fight Tau suits.

If that's the case, why can't my Guardsmen all wear power armour and my Tau be masters of close combat? The lore can be expanded, as you say.

The Corvus may be a bestseller, maybe because it's for a new arny, and looks like a decent flyer. Comparatively, let's look at another new unit retconned in - Mutilators. Not doing quite so well. Or how about Warp Talons? No? The Dreadknight and Centurions? Many people hate their aesthetic. Or the Gork/Morkanaughts? New units =/= a guarenteed good thing.

I have no issue with the lore being expanded, for a reason. More info on the Halo Stars? Great, that's fine! Introduce a hover tank into the Deathwatch - why? WWhy do they need one? It fills no tactical niche they require. Same with the the mech suit - they use man-portable weaponry and Dreadnoughts in the fluff to bring down xeno beasts, because they're more easily transportible. With the Deathwatch, they need that emphasis on man-portable tech and as little reliance on unwieldy systems as they can. A massive battlemech wouldn't fit that image. Dreadnoughts are fine - they need to be brought up to be that source of MC killing.

I'm going to have to doubt your opinion as very... boring.

And I quote: "Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude, The Big Lebowski.
Subjective.

Right but a black shield is just an ordinary member of the kill team with a mysterious past. Techmarines and Apothecaries are very specialized and often need to be away from the team itself.

The Blackshield used to be that - now he is locked into a weapon choice. That makes him specialised. Not to mention that you didn't address the point of the heavy weapon in the unit. His weapon should dictate a different choice of targets, but no. His frag cannon must absolutely fire at the same target as my shotguns. It's essential.

The Apothecary would be just as fine here as they would in a normal Space Marine command squad. If you're trying to suggest that being in the Deathwatch means that Apothecaries learn to leave units mid-battle, I don't think it works. It's a gameplay abstraction, and could work just like it does in either the 30k list, or exactly like how current units can form hybrid KIll Teams. Speaking of those hybrid Kill Teams, you think it wouldbe okay for the Apothecary to leave the unit, but the guy on the Bike or with the Jump Pack has to stay at the same speed as the rest of the team and not go too far away and use their equipment? Gotcha.

Does Angel's Blade come with any good formations for taking a bunch of Sanguinary Priests? That'd be a good way to get some apothecaries into a Deathwatch army. An Iron Hands formation would be a good way to get techmarines (heck, use a Librarius Conclave instead of Death Watch Librarians and you've unlocked 9-15 techmarines.)

 Lansirill wrote:
Does Angel's Blade come with any good formations for taking a bunch of Sanguinary Priests? That'd be a good way to get some apothecaries into a Deathwatch army. An Iron Hands formation would be a good way to get techmarines (heck, use a Librarius Conclave instead of Death Watch Librarians and you've unlocked 9-15 techmarines.)

+1 for abusing the allies matrix for proper fluffy reasons.

I would love if they had Techmarines or Apothecaries. I modeled some of mine to be them already, but it would be nice to have an actual entry into the codex.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Stick in the mud says they shouldn't have anything interesting or new that makes us see them in a new light. Yeah and before the Corvus existed I told people they should have something very similar to that and people got mad "they don't need ANY custom vehicles the Stormraven is all they need or a Thunderhawk". Not on this forum but a lot on the internet and even in real life.

Thanks for the slightly insulting label, much appreciated.
Interesting is subjective - I wasn't aware having a floating tank or a mech suit made a faction interesting as per fact. I guess the Eldar and Tau must be absolutely fascinating.
Speaking of interesting, how did the Dreadknight make the Grey Knights interesting? I'd very much like to know.

Purely hypothetically, why do the Deathwatch need the Corvus? What can it do that the Stormraven can't?

I'm getting real sick of being told that stuff doesn't work or won't happen or fit into the lore when it can easily be expanded. The Corvus is one of the DW most popular models and a best seller. I'm not looking for something as ridiculous looking ad a DreadKnight, but a small mech a little larger than a dreadnought would work wonders for all the large Xenos monsters out there especially trying to fight Tau suits.

If that's the case, why can't my Guardsmen all wear power armour and my Tau be masters of close combat? The lore can be expanded, as you say.

The Corvus may be a bestseller, maybe because it's for a new arny, and looks like a decent flyer. Comparatively, let's look at another new unit retconned in - Mutilators. Not doing quite so well. Or how about Warp Talons? No? The Dreadknight and Centurions? Many people hate their aesthetic. Or the Gork/Morkanaughts? New units =/= a guarenteed good thing.

I have no issue with the lore being expanded, for a reason. More info on the Halo Stars? Great, that's fine! Introduce a hover tank into the Deathwatch - why? WWhy do they need one? It fills no tactical niche they require. Same with the the mech suit - they use man-portable weaponry and Dreadnoughts in the fluff to bring down xeno beasts, because they're more easily transportible. With the Deathwatch, they need that emphasis on man-portable tech and as little reliance on unwieldy systems as they can. A massive battlemech wouldn't fit that image. Dreadnoughts are fine - they need to be brought up to be that source of MC killing.

I'm going to have to doubt your opinion as very... boring.

And I quote: "Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude, The Big Lebowski.
Subjective.

Right but a black shield is just an ordinary member of the kill team with a mysterious past. Techmarines and Apothecaries are very specialized and often need to be away from the team itself.

The Blackshield used to be that - now he is locked into a weapon choice. That makes him specialised. Not to mention that you didn't address the point of the heavy weapon in the unit. His weapon should dictate a different choice of targets, but no. His frag cannon must absolutely fire at the same target as my shotguns. It's essential.

The Apothecary would be just as fine here as they would in a normal Space Marine command squad. If you're trying to suggest that being in the Deathwatch means that Apothecaries learn to leave units mid-battle, I don't think it works. It's a gameplay abstraction, and could work just like it does in either the 30k list, or exactly like how current units can form hybrid KIll Teams. Speaking of those hybrid Kill Teams, you think it wouldbe okay for the Apothecary to leave the unit, but the guy on the Bike or with the Jump Pack has to stay at the same speed as the rest of the team and not go too far away and use their equipment? Gotcha.

I'm not sure where you get this idea that blackshields only get swords. You can give them anything but heavy thunder hammers.

NivlacSupreme wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Stick in the mud says they shouldn't have anything interesting or new that makes us see them in a new light. Yeah and before the Corvus existed I told people they should have something very similar to that and people got mad "they don't need ANY custom vehicles the Stormraven is all they need or a Thunderhawk". Not on this forum but a lot on the internet and even in real life.

Thanks for the slightly insulting label, much appreciated.
Interesting is subjective - I wasn't aware having a floating tank or a mech suit made a faction interesting as per fact. I guess the Eldar and Tau must be absolutely fascinating.
Speaking of interesting, how did the Dreadknight make the Grey Knights interesting? I'd very much like to know.

Purely hypothetically, why do the Deathwatch need the Corvus? What can it do that the Stormraven can't?

I'm getting real sick of being told that stuff doesn't work or won't happen or fit into the lore when it can easily be expanded. The Corvus is one of the DW most popular models and a best seller. I'm not looking for something as ridiculous looking ad a DreadKnight, but a small mech a little larger than a dreadnought would work wonders for all the large Xenos monsters out there especially trying to fight Tau suits.

If that's the case, why can't my Guardsmen all wear power armour and my Tau be masters of close combat? The lore can be expanded, as you say.

The Corvus may be a bestseller, maybe because it's for a new arny, and looks like a decent flyer. Comparatively, let's look at another new unit retconned in - Mutilators. Not doing quite so well. Or how about Warp Talons? No? The Dreadknight and Centurions? Many people hate their aesthetic. Or the Gork/Morkanaughts? New units =/= a guarenteed good thing.

I have no issue with the lore being expanded, for a reason. More info on the Halo Stars? Great, that's fine! Introduce a hover tank into the Deathwatch - why? WWhy do they need one? It fills no tactical niche they require. Same with the the mech suit - they use man-portable weaponry and Dreadnoughts in the fluff to bring down xeno beasts, because they're more easily transportible. With the Deathwatch, they need that emphasis on man-portable tech and as little reliance on unwieldy systems as they can. A massive battlemech wouldn't fit that image. Dreadnoughts are fine - they need to be brought up to be that source of MC killing.

I'm going to have to doubt your opinion as very... boring.

And I quote: "Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude, The Big Lebowski.
Subjective.

Right but a black shield is just an ordinary member of the kill team with a mysterious past. Techmarines and Apothecaries are very specialized and often need to be away from the team itself.

The Blackshield used to be that - now he is locked into a weapon choice. That makes him specialised. Not to mention that you didn't address the point of the heavy weapon in the unit. His weapon should dictate a different choice of targets, but no. His frag cannon must absolutely fire at the same target as my shotguns. It's essential.

The Apothecary would be just as fine here as they would in a normal Space Marine command squad. If you're trying to suggest that being in the Deathwatch means that Apothecaries learn to leave units mid-battle, I don't think it works. It's a gameplay abstraction, and could work just like it does in either the 30k list, or exactly like how current units can form hybrid KIll Teams. Speaking of those hybrid Kill Teams, you think it wouldbe okay for the Apothecary to leave the unit, but the guy on the Bike or with the Jump Pack has to stay at the same speed as the rest of the team and not go too far away and use their equipment? Gotcha.

I'm not sure where you get this idea that blackshields only get swords. You can give them anything but heavy thunder hammers.

My bad, I knew they were locked out of something, wasn't sure how much. Either way, his statline and rules would still imply a different combat role to the rest of the team, as does the wargear of a heavy weapon bearer.

I mostly just wish the Blackshield bought melee weapons at Vanguard/Biker prices instead of the totally not worth it Tactical costs or I wish the upgrade wasn't so steep.

Techmarines and Apothecaries would be welcome. Is there anything Devestator squads do that Vets don't? I thought you just add extra shoulder upgrades to them and call it good.

Overall I really like how they're designed with a small number of codex entries with a large number of build configurations. Very little I'd feel they desperately need.

I wouldn't care about techmarines, just because I'd never bring them, but I would kill for apothecaries.

As stated above, the large number of build configurations is probably the coolest part of the DW army, at least for me.

OP, in what world do Deathwatch need hover tanks or powerful battlemechs?
Neither of them really fits with the theme of an elite precision strike team.

 master of ordinance wrote:
OP, in what world do Deathwatch need hover tanks or powerful battlemechs?
Neither of them really fits with the theme of an elite precision strike team.

I never said that. I said we need stuff that they are known to have.

Of the "other things" the OP mentions, I would like to bring up Jump Packs. Is there a reason Chaplains and Librarians suddenly forget how to use them when being relegated to the Death Watch?

I do not think that Champions are missing - there are lots of character options, each attachable to units. What are the Veterans really missing in that regard? The option for challenges - is that such a big deal?

As for Apothecaries and Techmarines: agreed, they are missed. I do not understand why they were kept out...

My personal wishlist? Any addition should strictly support the theme of the Death Watch that is "swift intervention force". Maybe a new Landspeeder variant? Why not add the Stormraven? How about a Droppod variant with heavy weapons (FW does somethign similar already - a simple upgrade sprue would do the trick)?

 Darnok wrote:
Of the "other things" the OP mentions, I would like to bring up Jump Packs. Is there a reason Chaplains and Librarians suddenly forget how to use them when being relegated to the Death Watch?

I do not think that Champions are missing - there are lots of character options, each attachable to units. What are the Veterans really missing in that regard? The option for challenges - is that such a big deal?

As for Apothecaries and Techmarines: agreed, they are missed. I do not understand why they were kept out...

My personal wishlist? Any addition should strictly support the theme of the Death Watch that is "swift intervention force". Maybe a new Landspeeder variant? Why not add the Stormraven? How about a Droppod variant with heavy weapons (FW does somethign similar already - a simple upgrade sprue would do the trick)?

Lacking the option to challenge is both a blessing and a pain.
My Wolves come with Character options in most packs, even though at the start of matches I tell opponents there is no leader they still assume there's some kind of character and crash in expecting Challenge Bonuses, only to be reminded - there's nothing to challenge...

Jump Packs and Bikes on generic HQs would be nice.

Apothecaries are a huge oversight as you can get them in plastic in nearly all command squads. GW has been following a no plastic no rules approach to things of late. Hence my TDA chaplain being useless except as a bog standard termie. My larger disappointment is the inability to get all the heavy weapon options i.e. las,melta,plasma cannons on anything other than vehicles. Missile launchers can only go so far. I would love a plastic tecmarine. In deathwatch I would see them being able to fire all servo harness weaponry per turn, or buff friendly machines. Having to pilfer for BA guns to pad out my vanguard is honking me off.