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Don't know if it's just my local meta, but people tend to avoid plasma like the plague. It's great for killing priority targets, monstrous creatures and light vehicle hunting. I prefer it over melta because it has the extra shot, and I'd only ever put melta in a unit that is dedicated to hunting vehicles. Plasma is great in a tac squad, but hardly anyone uses it, why? As far as I can tell, the chances of it burning the fingers off of a marine are quite slim.

Cassor the Damned wrote:
Don't know if it's just my local meta, but people tend to avoid plasma like the plague. It's great for killing priority targets, monstrous creatures and light vehicle hunting. I prefer it over melta because it has the extra shot, and I'd only ever put melta in a unit that is dedicated to hunting vehicles. Plasma is great in a tac squad, but hardly anyone uses it, why? As far as I can tell, the chances of it burning the fingers off of a marine are quite slim.

Because no matter how low the odds, it will always blow up in your face when you least want it to.

For those with access to it, grav preforms better in most circumstances. Plasma still has a few places where it is better, but not enough to outweigh the advantages grav brings to the table.

Plasma cannons suffer from being a small blast, which is a disadvantage a large chunk of the time.

Plasma pistols are comically overpriced.

Plasma is expensive and can kill your own men and grav do almost the same thing.
However, in my casual meta, I still use plasma on my tac squads and it is pretty good.
Especially with the reroll of 1'.

Grav Cannons are usually the "best gun" for Loyalists. Chaos doesn't want to "hang back" with plasma (Obliterators are the odd exception since they can use Plasma weapons) except for some specific builds. Guard can do Plasma-Vets if they run the Emperor's Blade Assault Company.

Imperial Agents may well have made a monster out of the War Convocation though, as it lets you take Servitors as Cult Mechanicus units, those dudes are 10 points apiece, get their Plasma Cannons for (wait for it) free, they ignore Gets Hot...plop them next to a Haemotrope Reactor, and optionally find some cheap ICs to babysit them, and watch them start deleting the map.

Since my Death Guuard got Relentless now there's no reason to take anything else than plasma, aside from one maybe two squads with melta for Vehicle killing. But usually Oblits do that job good enough.
For loyalists it seems that grav is simply better most of the time so pasma gets overshadowed. There are several things in the game that aren't bad per se but alternatives are simply better in nearly every way. Jump packs vs Bikes, grav vs. plasma, monstrous creatures vs walkers...

Never thought about it before, but yeah, Grav is exponentially better than plasma. All the damage, none of the crisped fingers. But, I do have one tac squad sergeant with a combi-plasma for character killing purposes.

Lets put it this way Vs 3 very common targets. I use bikes alot, so lets say I have a plasma and a Grav squad
Vs a Wraithknight. Grav Wounds on 3+ while a Plasma wounds on a 5+ and can kill you
Storm Surge: Grav wounds on a 3+ as does Plasma, but grav has more shots and cant kill you.
Riptide: Grav wounds on a 2+ while a Plasma on a 3+, still worse and can kill you
What about Armies without grav, like guard? Well plasma will certainly kill you. And you have better stuff to take on MCs with.

Too much risk for too little return, you can lose games because of plasma when you could have taken something else with those points. AP 2 weapons are no longer the kings of the battlefield, especially when they only fire one or two shots. Weight of fire to force failed saves is king now. The only time I ever use Plasma is with Skitarii where plasma culverin its self (3 shots at assault 18'') and the rules of the Skitarii (avoiding ones thanks to doctrinas) makes them a viable choice. The only other time I occasionally take Plasma weaponry is on Executioner Leman Russ Tanks when I have reliable access to Preferred Enemy, like taking Pask or the Steel Host. Again, needing additional rules to make the weapons safer.

As mentioned, mostly because Grav is better and at S7, Plasma is one point of Strength too weak to have a rationale for taking the risk with it.

I play World Eaters and I can't afford to stop my units from running towards enemy units, so Melta is my bread and butter. I'm starting to experiment with Havocs running with 4 Meltas and a Combi. Cheaper than Chosen, frightening when they get close, and with the free 2D6 pre-game move, they will get close.

I use Plasma. 4 S7 AP2 shots isn't bad. But then I'm not blessed by Grav.

I'm just thinking of my RW black knights. While I'm pulling stupid shenanigans with invisibility and a rerollable 2+ cover save, enemy shooting is basically a joke. 1 in 6 to hit, usually 1/2 or 1/3 to wound, plus a 1 in 36 chance of killing. We'll say 0.22% chance of killing something. Now, assuming I've jinked, I fire my plasma... 5/6 fail the first to hit, and 1 in 6 on the second, 1 in 3 kill me, something like a 4.6% chance to blow myself up. Something like 21 times more likely to die to my guns than to my enemies.

Usually take plasma on non relentless platforms, just plasma guns. cannons are expensive and and, pistols are expensive.

really like plasma/combo plasma out of a pod in battle company tough, same in razorbacks

Grav is generally useless against the top tier daemons so plasma is always fun.

Against most enemies, Grav is going to be better, as is said above. The problem is that whatever Grav isn't going to kill, you probably don't want Plasma against. The number of T6+ models with no save in the entire game can be counted on both hands, unless we add in Forge World, in which case... Maybe both hands and a foot. (Hint: They're pretty much all Daemons.)

Melta, meanwhile, is better against most tanks since you're twice as likely to get an Explodes result, and all-but guaranteed to get a Penetrating hit if you're within Melta range. To put it another way: Plasma can get maybe two hull points, but against AV11 you're averaging one hull point for every two hits. Against AV14, you're doing nothing. Melta, meanwhile, is averaging .7 Hull Points or so for every hit against AV14, and is liable to blow it up on top of that. Plus, if you're facing T4 models with multiple wounds or FNP, then the Melta is the way to go just for Instant Death.

It could seem incredible but imperial armies that are not Space Marines do exist. Such armies have no access to Grav and can fill squads with 3-4 plasma guns if possible. Guard/Scions have orders, of course. Same with Plasma Calivers and Skitarii. Is 5-7 points overpriced but whatever.

Plasma is not bad per se: the damage output is devastating and the range acceptable. The "gets hot" rule was designed in a period before power creep and designers filling armies with special snowflake weapons. In the current 40k, gets hot for plasma is a nonsense. The designer do not assign it for balance reasons, becaus an early draft, soon FAQed of Militarum Tempestus assigned "gets hot" to Hot-shot volley guns. Only a complete and utter incompetent would even conceive to assign such rule to such mediocre weapon.

Plasma cannon is just a no-no for many but the main problem is not the gets hot, because most platforms can handle it. Is the fact that is a small blast, and small blast scatter in an incredibly stupid way compared to their diameter, and regardless the BS of the shooter.

Comparison with grav is obvious, but Gravs are just a design abomination that makes no sense at all. Not only is too good against too many things, but the very concept is beyond stupid. Other weapons exist or existed targeting the enemy in a different way from T + Armor Save rolls. The Callidus template weapon used to wound differently in base of the enemy's discipline, and then you have those wire weapons on the Eldar (like the warp spiders) targeting initiative. But all those weapons had a thing in common with the "standard" ones: the chance to wound was lower with a lower stat in the enemy.
It means that paying more points for the model made you less vulnerable. With Grav, a model is punished for paying more points, and ironically, for paying more points for ITS SURVIVABILITY, because Grav targets Armour.

I bet this idea is from Cruddace. It MUST be Cruddace.

I use 3 plasma calivers in my Skitarii Vanguard unit when its champion is my HQ, which gives the unit "preferred enemy".
9 S7 ap2 shots, with rerolls ones to-hit and to-wound, hits like a ton of bricks at almost any unit and can take down light vehicles in one volley.

To be honest plasma is a lot of fun, but unless you got something to re-roll those ones it is not really a competitive option.

I run Chaos as my main army, and I usually stick to using the Warband as my core. This means I need at least one unit of either Chosen, Terminators, or Possessed. One can immediately rule out Possessed, and while Chosen are interesting, they're ultimately "Marines + 1" and only really running in certain lists.

This leaves Chaos Terminators. I can take them in 3-man units instead of 5-man, and 3 Combi-Plasma shots are 12 points (the Champion pays 2 more points sadly).

Alpha Legion run "5 Chosen, 2 Plasma, Rhino" as troops and they get Infiltrate/Outflank as part of the package.

 kingbobbito wrote:
I'm just thinking of my RW black knights. While I'm pulling stupid shenanigans with invisibility and a rerollable 2+ cover save, enemy shooting is basically a joke. 1 in 6 to hit, usually 1/2 or 1/3 to wound, plus a 1 in 36 chance of killing. We'll say 0.22% chance of killing something. Now, assuming I've jinked, I fire my plasma... 5/6 fail the first to hit, and 1 in 6 on the second, 1 in 3 kill me, something like a 4.6% chance to blow myself up. Something like 21 times more likely to die to my guns than to my enemies.

Haha class. Have an exalt!

I consider Ork plasma (kustom mega guns) more worth it because the jump from str7 to str8 is significant in today's T4+ meta.That and orks are more likely to lose a few models to guardsmen armed with sticks and run off the table then get wiped out by their own guns.

Because grav weapons ruined everything.

HandofMars wrote:
Because grav weapons ruined everything.

That's why my 1850 pt lists have six grav weapons total in them.

On relentless platforms grav is absolutely better, but I too am surprised most people seem to also stick grav in tac squads and stuff like that. You're only getting the 3rd shot if you stay still, and if you move you're only getting 2 shots and only at 9"! If you want your boys moving up and taking ground, I think plasma works out better for you.

If plasma guns were 10 points instead of 15, I'd take more.

If plasma pistols were 5 points instead of 15, I'd take more.

The expense of plasma is the biggest drawback, IMHO. I'm not afraid of the Get's Hot.

Private Steve is, though.

fething Steve.

 kronk wrote:
If plasma guns were 10 points instead of 15, I'd take more.

If plasma pistols were 5 points instead of 15, I'd take more.

The expense of plasma is the biggest drawback, IMHO. I'm not afraid of the Get's Hot.

Private Steve is, though.

fething Steve.

Not that I need more plasma gunners, but I really want to build a Gets Hot! marine.

On the topic of Salvo: it’s not that bad. I treat it the same way I think of heavy weapons. On the turn you disembark, you are getting two shots. You should be in range (I hop out of tansports and flame things all the time, grav has better range then that. Next turn you stand still while the rest of the squad wheels around you. Full shots, full range. On a pure footslogging squad, the range of plasma on the move is going to be better. For for meched/poded squads, the grav works just fine.

Im planning a Ravenguard army, and my tac squads are min with a grav cannon in a rhino, the plan is they can shoot out the hatch at full range as long as the Rhino doesn't move too much.

I don't mind plasma too much, my grey hunters make good use of it, but grav is just so much better its hard justifying plasma or melta when grav can do both of those things.

If you include plasma in your army but don't have a Gets Hot Steve, then you don't deserve to ever win a game of 40k.

If you are mixing a bit of pre-drinking with Warhammer, I recommend using the 'Get Shot' rule, where each time gets hot is rolled you get a shot of drink.

nareik wrote:
If you include plasma in your army but don't have a Gets Hot Steve, then you don't deserve to ever win a game of 40k.

If you are mixing a bit of pre-drinking with Warhammer, I recommend using the 'Get Shot' rule, where each time gets hot is rolled you get a shot of drink.

All plasma, all the time! "feth it, ally in some Imperial Guard Plasma Leman Russ tanks!"

I run a Lion's Blade in my 1850 list and have 3 plasma guns for things like demons and what not. I still have a pretty grav heavy list 6 cannons and 5 grav guns (relentless) but I take 3 tac with melta and 3 with plasma. The plasma seems to come in handy to after their razorback gets popped so I can still move and shoot effectively but I still prefer grav for the most part.