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 Pacific wrote:
I agree, feel exactly the same way.

Glad I'm not the only one!

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:
Ok I cannot find a definitive answer on this.

How do we get the O-Yoroi pilot?
If we don't want to participate in the kickstarter, will there be a standard release later? Some details would be appreciated especially since it's a limited edition

Not exactly sure the layout yet. Kickstarter should be up soon though. Wasn't it meant to go up almost 2 hours ago? They said 12am on the 14th which is ripe for confusion but we know there is a deal only available today so surely they meant for it to be live already? Think this sort of delay is pretty common though.

RPG kickstarter as a precedent? All those characters hit general release with minor changes.

 Micky wrote:
RPG kickstarter as a precedent? All those characters hit general release with minor changes.

Joan of Arc's updated model still has yet to be general release.

Same with the Unknown Ranger's rifle profile.

 Micky wrote:
RPG kickstarter as a precedent? All those characters hit general release with minor changes.

Different situation. They were already being made as the HVT models. When Modiphius wanted models for the Kickstarter, CB offered those with alternate arms. The O-Yoroi pilot seems to have been specifically made as the 75mm for this Kickstarter and then scaled down to 32mm for the same kickstarter. There's no evidence yet it was based on anything intended for general release.

This keeps on growing.

For every Infinity lover, a figure suitable for playing could not be missing in this project. Here is pilot Oyori, a perfect figure for painting and playing. This is a present from Corvus Belli, so that all kind of customers can take part in the campaign. You can purchase it as an add-on after choosing the pledge that you prefer and only for orders over or equal than 40$.

You can add the quantity of miniatures that you want. 11$/ unit.

As always, thank you for keeping this going on. You are the best.

So, that mini will cost you $51 + shipping.

Unless you want to gamble on it being available later on down the road...as a general release.

 Alpharius wrote:
So, that mini will cost you $51 + shipping.

Unless you want to gamble on it being available later on down the road...as a general release.

You shouldn't have to buy a bust just to get the mini. Not impressed. :(

And I'm a guy who ONLY wants the busts. Shape up Corvus.

 Casey's Law wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
So, that mini will cost you $51 + shipping.

Unless you want to gamble on it being available later on down the road...as a general release.

You shouldn't have to buy a bust just to get the mini. Not impressed. :(

And I'm a guy who ONLY wants the busts. Shape up Corvus.

OK, sell me your O-Yoroi.

Actually, you could just take orders and add a bunch of them to your pledge.

It's not '2014 ITS Authorized Bounty Hunter' awesome level - and apparently that miniature is now impossible to find.

I'm not THAT impressed/tempted by it - and certainly not $51 + shipping tempted.

 TalonZahn wrote:

 Casey's Law wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
So, that mini will cost you $51 + shipping.

Unless you want to gamble on it being available later on down the road...as a general release.

You shouldn't have to buy a bust just to get the mini. Not impressed. :(

And I'm a guy who ONLY wants the busts. Shape up Corvus.

OK, sell me your O-Yoroi.

Actually, you could just take orders and add a bunch of them to your pledge.

I'm tempted to take one on the off chance that the resale value is profitable. I've been selling off a few LE's that I don't need and they seem to fetch £25+ each now.

I'm not totally against the idea of getting them at face value + shipping for people but it would really need to be in the UK only or it'd get silly expensive.

 Alpharius wrote:
It's not '2014 ITS Authorized Bounty Hunter' awesome level - and apparently that miniature is now impossible to find.

I'm not THAT impressed/tempted by it - and certainly not $51 + shipping tempted.

I saw you were looking for that, haven't seen one for sale anywhere, you tried many more places than the swap shop?

When I remember, I check eBay - and I've never seen one there either...

He secretly has me hunting for one, so don't tell anybody.

I found one for myself a long time back, still trying to help Alph.

That mini is like the Holy Grail.

I had less trouble finding the 2013 ITS mini. Hell, I had 3 Battlefoam Yuan Yuan's in hand before I had the 2014 ITS, and there were only 750 Yuan Yuans made.

Anyway, O-Yoroi... I would pay someone cost + S&H from where ever they lived, because it would be cheaper than $51.

Not much cheaper! I think the most basic postage to the US is like £20 these days. Ridiculous really. You may as well buy a bust and resell it at that point.

I'll keep an eye out for that chick too. I'm done with collecting LE stuff so I don't need it.


Okay sounds like there is a fair bit of interest in getting the O-Yoroi 32mm via someone else. I'm going to price up postage and stuff to various locations and then I'll take orders on her if people want to get one without pledging.

I'm sure there's people here in the States that might do the same thing. Just need to find them.

 Casey's Law wrote:
I feel like it's as part of Infinity as skulls are to 40k, it's an artistic choice and as long as that's all it is then that's great. I keep a lot of platonic female company and if I thought any of them would be offended then I'd seriously reconsider my position on cheesecake, so far they all think it's great fun.

When certain characteristics are implemented too much the product is simply an eye sore, regardless of the product or standards that I'd use to measure it. For 40k for instance it would be the size, bulk, needless spikes and skulls. I'm not overly bothered with few skulls here an there, although it's not my preferred sight. It's really a shame in Tech Bee case, if they'd make female combat engineer like they did it for JSA, YJ, Nomads or doctor for Haqqislam I'd buy max of her AVA. To make the matters worse, the Tech Bee feels to me as a direct plug from Bootleg line, it really makes me wonder how much did the Bootleg sold or is it aimed for a promotion for their Bootleg line.

 Knight wrote:

 Casey's Law wrote:
I feel like it's as part of Infinity as skulls are to 40k, it's an artistic choice and as long as that's all it is then that's great. I keep a lot of platonic female company and if I thought any of them would be offended then I'd seriously reconsider my position on cheesecake, so far they all think it's great fun.

When certain characteristics are implemented too much the product is simply an eye sore, regardless of the product or standards that I'd use to measure it. For 40k for instance it would be the size, bulk, needless spikes and skulls. I'm not overly bothered with few skulls here an there, although it's not my preferred sight. It's really a shame in Tech Bee case, if they'd make female combat engineer like they did it for JSA, YJ, Nomads or doctor for Haqqislam I'd buy max of her AVA. To make the matters worse, the Tech Bee feels to me as a direct plug from Bootleg line, it really makes me wonder how much did the Bootleg sold or is it aimed for a promotion for their Bootleg line.

She's no eyesore to me. Art is subjective and if you don't like something then that's cool but you also can't tell the artist they are wrong.

With 40k as an example, I like the heavy gothic stuff that's caked in skulls, the more the better, I appreciate the artistic choice. I don't like heroic scale at all and I don't like the huge, armoured, child friendly toys that they have pouring resources into. I could whine about it every time they release a model but instead I just don't buy them. And I'm not "voting with my wallet" because I don't expect them to change, lots of people like the style which I find inelegant and will continue to buy them. Just because I don't like something doesn't mean it has to change, it's artistic freedom.

If all art was designed to please everyone then we'd be devoid of culture and what a depressing thought that is.

 TalonZahn wrote:
I'm sure there's people here in the States that might do the same thing. Just need to find them.

I'm looking into cheaper options for US postage too!

Just because I don't like something doesn't mean it has to change, it's artistic freedom.

It's why they've made Bootleg line, isn't it? To have wiggle room to play with.

Art is subjective and if you don't like something then that's cool but you also can't tell the artist they are wrong.

Heh, I think many artists that I know of would chuckle at this. If you think of it this way, we don't know what the artist that was drawing the dossier really thought of Tech Bee (I like to think he liked it tho). Similar to how many artists are going to do a piece, scene or whatever creative subject they're doing, more on a basis of wishes of their clients.

 Knight wrote:


It's why they've made Bootleg line, isn't it? To have wiggle room to play with.

Pretty sure Bootleg was meant for old artworks that didn't have a place in the game to be made into models.

Heh, I think many artists that I know of would chuckle at this. If you think of it this way, we don't know what the artist that was drawing the dossier really thought of Tech Bee (I think he liked it tho). Similar to how many artists are going to do a piece, scene or whatever creative subject they're doing, more on a basis of wishes of their clients.

The only objective criticism you can give art is in its quality, i.e. how well it's drawn/painted/sculpted, and if it has any content of note (sorry modern art, but I still don't think a blank canvas can qualify as good art).

Outside that, it's pretty much a subjective view, and one that everyone's entitled to. Point here is that Cheesecake is not poor quality artwork because it's Cheesecake.

@Knight
The bootleg line has nothing to do with the type of artistic queues it's there to provide models which are not intended for tabletop and therefore not bound by it's strictures.

So why do all these artists, of questionable existence, and yourself, "Heh", find my statement about art and it's freedom of expression to be so hilarious? Is it because your definition of art appears to be only wide enough for something that takes place on paper or canvas to squeeze through? Or is it just because you couldn't muster up an actual response? Someone better tell all those so called artists through time immemorial that their work is invalid because they didn't put it down on paper. I'm sure there are going to be some embarrassed faces!

But let's not quibble over semantics! There are plenty of sources you can reference for definitions. Of course arguing with a dictionary is like bleeding a stone but you won't get much more from me either.

TLDR: "Heh."

@G.A
I would actually propose "quality" is simply another aesthetic choice that you can take or leave on a massive spectrum. There are plenty of artists who shirk the shackles of realism and attention to detail in search of something else. Plenty of artistic movements have focussed on exactly that abandonment and created whole era's of wonderful art that enrich our cultures. So it's all subjective from the roots up. Art is simply the free expression and product of a mind or minds, if we impose our own rules on that then all we are doing is bringing negatives into our own and other's lives.

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Knight wrote:


It's why they've made Bootleg line, isn't it? To have wiggle room to play with.

Pretty sure Bootleg was meant for old artworks that didn't have a place in the game to be made into models.

There's three different "explanations" that I have seen get trotted out.

1) The Bootleg line was meant for models that served no in-game purpose, but the sculptors/designers wanted to do.
2) The Bootleg line was meant to lower the "cheesecake" factor.
3) The Bootleg line was meant to give the sculptors a chance to do something they wanted to do without having to be restrained by the necessities of designing something for the game.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Knight wrote:
It's why they've made Bootleg line, isn't it? To have wiggle room to play with.

Pretty sure Bootleg was meant for old artworks that didn't have a place in the game to be made into models.

There's three different "explanations" that I have seen get trotted out.

1) The Bootleg line was meant for models that served no in-game purpose, but the sculptors/designers wanted to do.
2) The Bootleg line was meant to lower the "cheesecake" factor.
3) The Bootleg line was meant to give the sculptors a chance to do something they wanted to do without having to be restrained by the necessities of designing something for the game.

Out of interest do we have references for that? Just for my personal reading.

 Casey's Law wrote:
@G.A
I would actually propose "quality" is simply another aesthetic choice that you can take or leave on a massive spectrum. There are plenty of artists who shirk the shackles of realism and attention to detail in search of something else. Plenty of artistic movements have focussed on exactly that abandonment and created whole era's of wonderful art that enrich our cultures. So it's all subjective from the roots up. Art is simply the free expression and product of a mind or minds, if we impose our own rules on that then all we are doing is bringing negatives into our own and other's lives.

Point taken, but you can still criticise artwork for being of inferior quality, be it due to the proportions being wrong (even within certain art styles) or the drawing/sculpt lacking depth, in a similar way that you would call a video game objectively poor because it doesn't work properly, or calling a movie objectively bad because the cinematography is out of whack.

I'd definitely separate quality from what you can garner from art, since I've found hundreds of pieces of quality art that I dislike, and even vice versa.

Opinion is never 100% objective, but I'd say that debating the quality of a certain artwork is certainly many times more objective than "is it good". Case in point, that Tech Bee model; pretty sure we can all agree that the quality of that sculpt in terms of definition and detail is excellent, but we will not agree on whether it's a "good" model or not.

 Kanluwen wrote:
There's three different "explanations" that I have seen get trotted out.

1) The Bootleg line was meant for models that served no in-game purpose, but the sculptors/designers wanted to do.
2) The Bootleg line was meant to lower the "cheesecake" factor.
3) The Bootleg line was meant to give the sculptors a chance to do something they wanted to do without having to be restrained by the necessities of designing something for the game.

I've actually heard that third one in a video with Beasts of War first introducing the Bootleg model line with one of the designers at CB.

Honestly, it could be all three, but I personally reckon CB couldn't give a damn about trying to lower any cheesecake factor.

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Casey's Law wrote:
@G.A
I would actually propose "quality" is simply another aesthetic choice that you can take or leave on a massive spectrum. There are plenty of artists who shirk the shackles of realism and attention to detail in search of something else. Plenty of artistic movements have focussed on exactly that abandonment and created whole era's of wonderful art that enrich our cultures. So it's all subjective from the roots up. Art is simply the free expression and product of a mind or minds, if we impose our own rules on that then all we are doing is bringing negatives into our own and other's lives.

Point taken, but you can still criticise artwork for being of inferior quality, be it due to the proportions being wrong (even within certain art styles) or the drawing/sculpt lacking depth, in a similar way that you would call a video game objectively poor because it doesn't work properly, or calling a movie objectively bad because the cinematography is out of whack.

I'd definitely separate quality from what you can garner from art, since I've found hundreds of pieces of quality art that I dislike, and even vice versa.

Opinion is never 100% objective, but I'd say that debating the quality of a certain artwork is certainly many times more objective than "is it good". Case in point, that Tech Bee model; pretty sure we can all agree that the quality of that sculpt in terms of definition and detail is excellent, but we will not agree on whether it's a "good" model or not.

Valid points, well said.

Although what we would then be giving critique on is actually the skill of the artist, which is different from telling the artist that their art is wrong. We would also have to consider what the intent and objective the artist had, what if a sculptor's aim was not perfection of form and that they completed a sculpture as intended? It would be unfair to then criticize their work for not being a realistic portrayal.

Luckily we can make a very educated guess on the brief of the Tech Bee for example and, as you say, can agree that the artist nailed it.

 General Annoyance wrote:
I personally reckon CB couldn't give a damn about trying to lower any cheesecake factor.

Agreed!

Bootleg was initiated for reasons Kan stated. You can find the references on the Official Forums. Early 2013, IIRC. My search-fu is weak, and I am lazy, so DIY the research.

 Knight wrote:
When certain characteristics are implemented too much the product is simply an eye sore, regardless of the product or standards that I'd use to measure it. For 40k for instance it would be the size, bulk, needless spikes and skulls. I'm not overly bothered with few skulls here an there, although it's not my preferred sight. It's really a shame in Tech Bee case, if they'd make female combat engineer like they did it for JSA, YJ, Nomads or doctor for Haqqislam I'd buy max of her AVA. To make the matters worse, the Tech Bee feels to me as a direct plug from Bootleg line, it really makes me wonder how much did the Bootleg sold or is it aimed for a promotion for their Bootleg line.

Looking at the pose of the Tech-Bee, I've come to the conclusion that it is far too close to that of the flirty fusilera from the Pan-O starter to be coincidental. My guess is that flirty fusilera traded a pair of pants-- the very pants that it was wearing (WIP12, what do you expect?)-- to a Space Marine™ for the Space Marine's™ Power Claw®.

 Alpharius wrote:
So, that mini will cost you $51 + shipping.

Unless you want to gamble on it being available later on down the road...as a general release.

CB is on the record as saying that there will be a general release O-Yoroi. Not a gamble about the 'if' part, ust the 'when' part. Now if you want this specific miniature it seems to be 'KS or bust'. (Hmmm, a pun. And a bad one too. Excellent.) I don't. I'll probably fill out my Yu Jing (Turns out the Red Veil minis really were worth getting. ) with a Su Jian and a few other units, just to have 300 points and a small amount of variety. However, I have plenty of other minis to paint, so I am in no hurry at all.

 Casey's Law wrote:
So why do all these artists, of questionable existence, and yourself, "Heh", find my statement about art and it's freedom of expression to be so hilarious? Is it because your definition of art appears to be only wide enough for something that takes place on paper or canvas to squeeze through? Or is it just because you couldn't muster up an actual response? Someone better tell all those so called artists through time immemorial that their work is invalid because they didn't put it down on paper. I'm sure there are going to be some embarrassed faces!.

Cut that aggressiveness. I've talked and listened to people who do art projects for a living (I do enjoy hearing people's view of their work, probably giving insight into what I could only scratch the rough surface), you can nitpick as there aren't that many of them, however there hasn't been unified consensus among them. I think the general preference is leaning more towards pragmatism over being picky and searching for projects that are completely aligned with their wishes. Then there is entire category, if you can judge an art at all or can you judge it based on certain factors, what those factors could be is also up to debate and so on (judging a picture that's 50 years old with a mindset that you currently have, with political climate as it is now). I think you can, with certain room left for personal bias (author's interpretation for instance) and why review of a product (art, play) should be done by a team of peers.

Looking at the pose of the Tech-Bee, I've come to the conclusion that it is far too close to that of the flirty fusilera from the Pan-O starter to be coincidental

Maybe, let me know, if you ever find out.

 Knight wrote:

 Casey's Law wrote:
So why do all these artists, of questionable existence, and yourself, "Heh", find my statement about art and it's freedom of expression to be so hilarious? Is it because your definition of art appears to be only wide enough for something that takes place on paper or canvas to squeeze through? Or is it just because you couldn't muster up an actual response? Someone better tell all those so called artists through time immemorial that their work is invalid because they didn't put it down on paper. I'm sure there are going to be some embarrassed faces!

Cut that aggressiveness. I've talked and listened to people who do art projects for a living, you can nitpick as there aren't that many of them, however there hasn't been unified consensus among them. I think the general preference is leaning more towards pragmatism over being picky and searching for projects that are completely aligned with their wishes. Then there is entire category, if you can judge an art at all or can you judge it based on certain factors, what those factors could be is also up to debate and so on (judging a picture that's 50 years old with a mindset that you currently have, with political climate as it is now). I think you can, with certain room left for personal bias (author's interpretation for instance) and why review of a product (art, play) should be done by a team of peers.

"Cut that aggressiveness"? You know fine well you are being being dismissive and I was treating it with the derision it warranted. You need to check your attitude at the door if you want to have a serious discussion with someone. If you're just going to be rude then at best you're going to be lightly mocked, if you don't like that then don't put yourself in that position.

As for your points, I know English is your second language but it's a bit hard to read in places so forgive me if I've glazed over anything. Based on the thoughts I presented; you appear to be arguing that art isn't objective in support of your opinion that the Tech Bee is an eyesore. I don't see any references or attempts to prove your position other than that you think it. That's fine, it's your opinion, your entitled to it.

Since conjecture isn't enough to change my mind and I've already presented my counter argument, with a few leads for references, there is nothing more for me to offer in response.

 Red Harvest wrote:
Bootleg was initiated for reasons Kan stated. You can find the references on the Official Forums. Early 2013, IIRC. My search-fu is weak, and I am lazy, so DIY the research.

Nah I'm feeling pretty lazy too. It was just in case Kan had them on hand, would have enjoyed reading them, he always seems to have cool stuff like that to post.

 Casey's Law wrote:
Although what we would then be giving critique on is actually the skill of the artist, which is different from telling the artist that their art is wrong. We would also have to consider what the intent and objective the artist had, what if a sculptor's aim was not perfection of form and that they completed a sculpture as intended? It would be unfair to then criticize their work for not being a realistic portrayal.

Precisely, which reinforces the point that cheesecake is not inherently bad, nor should it be criticised as bad art; if it was the artist's intention, then they've nailed it.

Although again, just because an artist meets their intention on paper, doesn't mean they've produced a good piece of artwork. There are plenty of "imperfect" artworks that are of great quality, and there are some that aren't, usually because the skill of the artist has not been enough to execute such a concept.

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Casey's Law wrote:
Although what we would then be giving critique on is actually the skill of the artist, which is different from telling the artist that their art is wrong. We would also have to consider what the intent and objective the artist had, what if a sculptor's aim was not perfection of form and that they completed a sculpture as intended? It would be unfair to then criticize their work for not being a realistic portrayal.

Precisely, which reinforces the point that cheesecake is not inherently bad, nor should it be criticised as bad art; if it was the artist's intention, then they've nailed it.

Although again, just because an artist meets their intention on paper, doesn't mean they've produced a good piece of artwork. There are plenty of "imperfect" artworks that are of great quality, and there are some that aren't, usually because the skill of the artist has not been enough to execute such a concept.

Indeed, seems like we're singing from the same hymn book.

Yes, the ironic hymn book about why cheesecake is fine

But what is and is not imperfect is in the eyes of the beholder.

Bootleg was created for the reasons stated, the new techbee is not part of the bootleg range.

-Amended-