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 Melissia wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
To see Sisters players getting psyched about the new Celestine and Dark Eldar players speculating about maybe getting Lady Malys back, and then having CSM and SM players complaining that the marines didn't get anything in this release is reasonably frustrating.

Indeed. And yet sadly this is pretty much normal. I had several Space Marine players (of several varieties) delivering personal insults to me in the news section (which the mods thankfully dealt with after a while) because I didn't get as hyped as they felt I should be about getting what turned out to be a single character mini with a couple minions she uses to become more survivable, a bland re-hash of rules, and a meta-detachment that forces me to include non-sisters minis in order to use.

Because, apparently, how dare I find it underwhelming to get a single new character-- however nice the character is-- when I'm still using metal miniatures from 2nd and 3rd edition as the foundation of my entire army, when Marine players of all stripes AND YES THIS INCLUDES CHAOS PLAYERS BEFORE YOU TRY TO PRETEND YOU ARE AN EXCEPTION get new toys all the damn time.

Oh look Sisters players playing martyr again.

Heaven forbid a Marine player would like more stuff too, huh?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Heaven forbid a Marine player would like more stuff too, huh?

Oh look a strawman argument, how droll.

I never stated that Space Marine players have no right to want more stuff, and if you had bothered to read the post you'd have noticed that.

But you didn't which is really fething disrespectful.

Instinctive behavior is a penalty rule designed as a penalty rule from the outset.

Mob Rule used to be a great rule that kept your boyz from running away or being swept.

Went from fearless above 10models to LD7. Boss poles went from rerolling LD checks and hitting 1 boy to Rerolling MOb Rule table killing D6.

Trukk Boyz barely benefit from Mob rule at all, same for small units below 10 models.

Could we not have another sister/chaos fight, please? We're all in this mess together, so lets keep chill and... um, complain abut how bad orks have it. :V

There's quite a few things that got worse in the change over, not just Mob Rule.

Waaagh! now requires a warboss, so if you decided to play a big mek lead army you don't get to use the iconic ork ability
Attack Squigs went from +1 attack to reroll one attack, even though they cost the same as they did before. Oh yeah, and making cybork useless
KFF is now per model rather than per unit. and can't bubble out of vehicles. But we're going to take it anyway, because it's our only way to get inv saves
It's just a straight up shame what happened to the ork special characters
Stormboyz's rokkit packs are more lethal to themselves, and the special ability only gives an additional 1d6 when you run, so they can't assault when they use their one special ability (except on the waagh!), vs getting 1d6 on your movement phase and only losing a guy if you roll a 1.
Burnaboyz used to be AP2 back in 5th, then became power swords in 6th for AP3 (enough though power axes would have made 100% more sense with the fluff)
Grots actually got worse (or more specifically, the runtherders)
Shootaboyz went up a point, rather than making slugga boyz more useful
the new ramshackle rarely helps and vehicles exploding will kill half your boyz
And the battle wagon did not need to go up by 20 points after they already nerfed the Deff Rolla into uselessness (and can we talk about how they gave GSC a better Deff Rolla?)
Lootas getting moved to the incredibly competitive HS slot isn't really fixed by the 1pt drop
Oh God, those killa kans didn't know what hit them

Edit: I guess I should make it fair and point out the buffs
Ere We Go
Weirdboyz actually got a massive buff. No more chances to blow yourself up, not more random powers each turn, has an actual weapon (a force maul, too!) Waaagh! Energy works like you expect (although the cap of 1 extra warp dice is sad), and despite all that he went down in price! the problem is more that the current psychic phase is very "Go big or go home", so when you do take a weirdboy he can't actually do anything because he's going to be shutdown by anything that bothered.
Painboyz are a massive boon now that they're HQs instead of options in certain units. Although they're now practically mandatory.
Rokkit launchers costing 5 points was definitely needed.
Tankbustas finally got tankhunters! And Glory Hound isn't a massive millstone! but they also made tankhammer bad and that made me sad (oh yeah, and the grenade nerf)
Meganobz do benefit from Mob Rule, and killsaws are great.
Kommandos finally have stealth! They can't assault out of infiltrate or outflank anymore, but at least they have stealth
The huge price drop for biker makes up for no longer having a permanent +4 cover save
Buggies having outflank is really good and has helpped in a lot of my games
the Big/Mek Gunz going down in price and the improvement to artillerty. Although half of them are still duds, the others are still useful.
Deff dreads did get better. Kinda. Big shootas standard, all options got cheaper. Problem is that with SM dreadnoughts getting more attacks across the board, there's no way deff dread come off as anything but worse dreadnaughts.

Looking between the the books, it really does seem like most of the changes were made based on old 5th edition builds

Mob Rule used to be a great rule that kept your boyz from running away or being swept.

Yes and no.
It's defendant on which edition your playing. I'll take mob rule for 7th in 7th over mob rule in 5th for 4th.
It seems better, the old mob rule, but it also had it's problems. Your Orks are fearless, you loose combat. Combat resolution say you loose by 10. you try to make 10 more saves. you save one.
You lost 19 model in total that round. Huzza! Next round your mob evaporates into green mist. (I really hated 5th edition.)
Or you loose and take maybe 6 hits and saves.

I absolutely hate that they gave GSC a better version of the old deff rolla and made ours useless.... I loved that thing even though I was just starting and it rarely got to do anything because of that. It was just a ton of fun and now everytime I sit there and go oh how I wish this were useful without needing the enemy to do something stupid.... In the 5-6 years I have been playing I have seen a grand total of 1 death or glory.... I like to ram a lot as well and that's all I have seen that rule used...

 warhead01 wrote:

Mob Rule used to be a great rule that kept your boyz from running away or being swept.

Yes and no.
It's defendant on which edition your playing. I'll take mob rule for 7th in 7th over mob rule in 5th for 4th.
It seems better, the old mob rule, but it also had it's problems. Your Orks are fearless, you loose combat. Combat resolution say you loose by 10. you try to make 10 more saves. you save one.
You lost 19 model in total that round. Huzza! Next round your mob evaporates into green mist. (I really hated 5th edition.)
Or you loose and take maybe 6 hits and saves.

On the otherhand, No Retreat only applied to melee combat, where as this version of mob rule can kill your own guys from being pinned, shoot at, or your trukk exploding. it doesn't apply to fear (making orks the only army that's actually negatively effected by fear), or any other leadership realted stuff (where as old mob rules let you replace your leadership with the # of boyz at any time) and there's always that small chance you roll a 1 twice and your massive horde of boys are running for the table edge.

No Retreat sucked, but the current Mob Rule is far more likely to make playing aggravating (vs the rare time your 30 boy mob didn't obliterate whatever you assaulted)

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

Mob Rule used to be a great rule that kept your boyz from running away or being swept.

Yes and no.
It's defendant on which edition your playing. I'll take mob rule for 7th in 7th over mob rule in 5th for 4th.
It seems better, the old mob rule, but it also had it's problems. Your Orks are fearless, you loose combat. Combat resolution say you loose by 10. you try to make 10 more saves. you save one.
You lost 19 model in total that round. Huzza! Next round your mob evaporates into green mist. (I really hated 5th edition.)
Or you loose and take maybe 6 hits and saves.

On the otherhand, No Retreat only applied to melee combat, where as this version of mob rule can kill your own guys from being pinned, shoot at, or your trukk exploding. it doesn't apply to fear (making orks the only army that's actually negatively effected by fear), or any other leadership realted stuff (where as old mob rules let you replace your leadership with the # of boyz at any time) and there's always that small chance you roll a 1 twice and your massive horde of boys are running for the table edge.

No Retreat sucked, but the current Mob Rule is far more likely to make playing aggravating (vs the rare time your 30 boy mob didn't obliterate whatever you assaulted)

Most armies are effected by fear - Necrons, IG, DE, Chaos marines, some Eldar units and Tau (well melee is some thing that they don't like anyways). Really the only armies that are immune to fear are SM and Daemons (and maybe Tyranids dont know on that). Mob rule sucks just because its horrible mechanics wise, on the table tho you tend to only lose a random ork boy or two. They should just change it to a reroll, or a bonus to moral checks and get away from the million rolls that are required atm (and give stubborn to large units).

IG are not affected by fear cause they have army-wide fearless and ld9-10 with stubborn and ability to ignore any ld if they kill a guy. All worthwhile CSM mellee units are fearless and with legions - they're all ld10 and half of the legion tactics involve fearless. All necrons are ld10 and their most common mellee units are fearless - could help vs warrior blobs if you have fear modifiers, though. Eldar mellee units are either fearless or ld10. Tau don't care about mellee and fear cause. DE have it rough but you generally see a corpsethieft claw or a bunch of homunculus-juiced dudes that are often ld10 or fearless too.

And now ork mellee units are also fearless cause bully boyz. And even if you're running a ton of boyz, you've probably either taken a FW stompa with a fearless bauble or Ghazcurion with army-wide fear from turn1.

It's night lords that have it rough cause fear is their main tactics and it matters SO rarely. Vs harlequins, necron warriors, other night lords or an occasional ork boy squad taken out of stompa fearless range or out of ghazcurion.

I'd not call it too bad - it just forces orks to shift to another approach. Ditch masses of boyz, get bully boyz and just run an occasional trukk or so. It's not a rarity to see an ork army with zero ork boyz in it. Kinda like a marine army without tactical marines or chaos space marine army without chaos space marines. I blame the ruleset for it. In the world where bikers can climb walls and fight in mellee while being faster, tougher, somehow better with shooting and just a couple points more expensive than footslogging dudes. And all that this very dudes can do is either hide in a metal bawx to roll around grabbing objectives - that others are not much worse at grabbing either - or hide in fortifications made out of explodium covered with newspaper armored plates. End everything is just so damn tough, fast, killy and cheap that there is just not much your troops can do other than being a tax or min support.

Luckilly, ork boyz can be a passable min support. Just min guyz inside a trukk - even without a nob - can be ok at disrupting the backline or scoring. They can still kick the opponent's tax units' arse or even tie up something not particularly choppy.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

Lootas getting moved to the incredibly competitive HS slot isn't really fixed by the 1pt drop

This is actually a good thing, they cost 1 point less and don't compete with meganobz and tankbustas, which i take everytime. 3 elites are always taken in my lists, i never have an elite slot available. But with trukks spam or the blitz brigade you can have 3 shooty HS choices, typically 5 lobbas and 2x5 lootas, sometimes i go with 3x5 lootas. So lootas can find a room quite easily now. If they were elites i'd never include them in my lists as i always want 3x5 tankbustas or 2x5 tankbustas and a manz missile if i don't use the bullyboyz formation.

Looking between the the books, it really does seem like most of the changes were made based on old 5th edition builds

THIS!

Any builds/units that were good in the previous codex were for the most part nerfed into borderline uselessness.

Kan Wall: BEFORE
35pt Kanz with S10 DCCWs. You would see between 6-18 of these Kanz walking across the board.

Kan Wall: AFTER
50pt Kanz with S7 DCCWs, and Leadership issues. The only thing the benefited from was weapons got marginally cheaper.

Boyz Spam: BEFORE
2-6 30x Boyz with a Nob BP/PK Leading them across the table in a gigantic swarm. Fearless for all intents and purposes.

Boyz Spam: AFTER
Well this is still a tactic but its not nearly as effective. LD7 now with Mob rule which tends to kill between 1-4 boyz a check. No longer fearless and shootas got more expensive. On the plus side Rokkitz and Big Shootas got cheaper, but whose going to pay extra points for a handful of S5 or 1 S8 shot at BS2?

Deff Rolla Rush: BEFORE
3-5 Battlewagons with Deff Rollas running across the table, disgorging units in the face of the enemy and then ramming them with D6 S10 hits. EVERY vehicle in the game feared a battelwagon with a Deff Rolla.

Deff Rolla Rush: AFTER:
Nope. I have yet to see Deff Rollas taken. Why? because its now D3 S10 hits and ONLY if they death or glory....or in other words its a 15?pt upgrade that can be ignored by your enemy not choosing to be stupid.

Dakkajet: BEFORE
Buy the extra Supa Shoota and on the waaagh your jet is firing 18! TL S6 shots at BS3

Dakkajet: AFTER
Buy the extra Supa Shoota and on the Waaagh your jet is firing 12 TL S6 shots at BS2? (I don't know the new rules from flyer supplement)

Nob Biker Spam: BEFORE
A unit of Nobz on bike with hidden PKs for relatively expensive, but you could play with the wound pool so they stayed alive longer

Nob Biker Spam: AFTER
Again, nope. 18pts for a Nob, 27pts to buy him a bike...wtf? And god help you if you want a powerklaw. 70pts for a PK Nob, and you can no longer do wound pool shenanigans. I don't see Nob bikers ever anymore. They eed their price cut by 15pts and even then its a tough call.



I mean I am ok with GW nerfing the best stuff from a codex, They probably need to do this to force players to buy the new cool toys in order to turn a profit. I got that. But they didn't replace our USEFUL builds with anything. Meganobz didn't get any better really. A Bosspole was almost as good as the new Mob rule and the other build? Warbike spam? Not really a replacement because its been around in FW forever.

Dakkajet: BEFORE
Buy the extra Supa Shoota and on the waaagh your jet is firing 18! TL S6 shots at BS3

Dakkajet: AFTER
Buy the extra Supa Shoota and on the Waaagh your jet is firing 12 TL S6 shots at BS2? (I don't know the new rules from flyer supplement)

Well, the new supplement is optional.
With out it you'd still have strafing run so it'd still be bs 3.
Your only really loosing shots. Which does hurt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
bs 3 most of the time.

 warhead01 wrote:

Dakkajet: BEFORE
Buy the extra Supa Shoota and on the waaagh your jet is firing 18! TL S6 shots at BS3

Dakkajet: AFTER
Buy the extra Supa Shoota and on the Waaagh your jet is firing 12 TL S6 shots at BS2? (I don't know the new rules from flyer supplement)

Well, the new supplement is optional.
With out it you'd still have strafing run so it'd still be bs 3.
Your only really loosing shots. Which does hurt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
bs 3 most of the time.

ok thanks for the heads up

Even then though, the Dakkajet is still a flying Burning pile of garbage. Nobody is really scared of 12 S6 BS3 shots these days. especially when it costs you 130-145 (Flyboss) points on an AV10 platform. Eldar can get 5 Scat bikes for the same price which can put out 20 S6 shots and at a higher BS.

Nobody is really scared of 12 S6 BS3 shots these days.

I've had trouble getting them to do much. 2 of them shooting at a White Scars command squad 24 twin linked shots. I may have killed 2 at best 3 in that unit. I've had a lot of success with Blitz bombers wiping whole squads of Marines out. But I use the formations which keeps them out of a fast attack slot.

In all fairness, mob rule in 5-th killed way more boyz than mob rule in 7-th.

 koooaei wrote:
In all fairness, mob rule in 5-th killed way more boyz than mob rule in 7-th.

It's true. More than once was a full 30 man mob of boyz of mine lose half their number from No Retreat! wounds from blenderhouses like a unit of charging Khorne Berserkers.

SemperMortis wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

Dakkajet: BEFORE
Buy the extra Supa Shoota and on the waaagh your jet is firing 18! TL S6 shots at BS3

Dakkajet: AFTER
Buy the extra Supa Shoota and on the Waaagh your jet is firing 12 TL S6 shots at BS2? (I don't know the new rules from flyer supplement)

Well, the new supplement is optional.
With out it you'd still have strafing run so it'd still be bs 3.
Your only really loosing shots. Which does hurt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
bs 3 most of the time.

ok thanks for the heads up

Even then though, the Dakkajet is still a flying Burning pile of garbage. Nobody is really scared of 12 S6 BS3 shots these days. especially when it costs you 130-145 (Flyboss) points on an AV10 platform. Eldar can get 5 Scat bikes for the same price which can put out 20 S6 shots and at a higher BS.

AV10 flyer with BS3 Twin Linked but still its not amazing. Also your picking Eldar Scat Bikes as the comparison and very few things in the game can compare to those undercosted piles of cheddar.

 Vankraken wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

Dakkajet: BEFORE
Buy the extra Supa Shoota and on the waaagh your jet is firing 18! TL S6 shots at BS3

Dakkajet: AFTER
Buy the extra Supa Shoota and on the Waaagh your jet is firing 12 TL S6 shots at BS2? (I don't know the new rules from flyer supplement)

Well, the new supplement is optional.
With out it you'd still have strafing run so it'd still be bs 3.
Your only really loosing shots. Which does hurt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
bs 3 most of the time.

ok thanks for the heads up

Even then though, the Dakkajet is still a flying Burning pile of garbage. Nobody is really scared of 12 S6 BS3 shots these days. especially when it costs you 130-145 (Flyboss) points on an AV10 platform. Eldar can get 5 Scat bikes for the same price which can put out 20 S6 shots and at a higher BS.

AV10 flyer with BS3 Twin Linked but still its not amazing. Also your picking Eldar Scat Bikes as the comparison and very few things in the game can compare to those undercosted piles of cheddar.

It's bs2 twin-linked vs ground targets cause of DFTS that adds a -1 bs modifier.

 koooaei wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

Dakkajet: BEFORE
Buy the extra Supa Shoota and on the waaagh your jet is firing 18! TL S6 shots at BS3

Dakkajet: AFTER
Buy the extra Supa Shoota and on the Waaagh your jet is firing 12 TL S6 shots at BS2? (I don't know the new rules from flyer supplement)

Well, the new supplement is optional.
With out it you'd still have strafing run so it'd still be bs 3.
Your only really loosing shots. Which does hurt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
bs 3 most of the time.

ok thanks for the heads up

Even then though, the Dakkajet is still a flying Burning pile of garbage. Nobody is really scared of 12 S6 BS3 shots these days. especially when it costs you 130-145 (Flyboss) points on an AV10 platform. Eldar can get 5 Scat bikes for the same price which can put out 20 S6 shots and at a higher BS.

AV10 flyer with BS3 Twin Linked but still its not amazing. Also your picking Eldar Scat Bikes as the comparison and very few things in the game can compare to those undercosted piles of cheddar.

It's bs2 twin-linked vs ground targets cause of DFTS that adds a -1 bs modifier.

for the 5% of players that actually use the DFTS supplement

 CrownAxe wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

Dakkajet: BEFORE
Buy the extra Supa Shoota and on the waaagh your jet is firing 18! TL S6 shots at BS3

Dakkajet: AFTER
Buy the extra Supa Shoota and on the Waaagh your jet is firing 12 TL S6 shots at BS2? (I don't know the new rules from flyer supplement)

Well, the new supplement is optional.
With out it you'd still have strafing run so it'd still be bs 3.
Your only really loosing shots. Which does hurt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
bs 3 most of the time.

ok thanks for the heads up

Even then though, the Dakkajet is still a flying Burning pile of garbage. Nobody is really scared of 12 S6 BS3 shots these days. especially when it costs you 130-145 (Flyboss) points on an AV10 platform. Eldar can get 5 Scat bikes for the same price which can put out 20 S6 shots and at a higher BS.

AV10 flyer with BS3 Twin Linked but still its not amazing. Also your picking Eldar Scat Bikes as the comparison and very few things in the game can compare to those undercosted piles of cheddar.

It's bs2 twin-linked vs ground targets cause of DFTS that adds a -1 bs modifier.

for the 5% of players that actually use the DFTS supplement

I concur. DFTS is rarely used and in all honestly over the course of probably 6+ games of using that rule set I can honestly say its as much garbage as everyone complains about and this is with my Dakkajets having a winning reconds in DFTS games.

Mob Rule rewards units with a decent armor save, eg MANZ and anything with 'eavy Armor and either numbers or multiple wounds. This is just Orks 'ard Boyz edition!

This is just Orks 'ard Boyz edition!

How have you been getting that to work? what's the trick to it?

 warhead01 wrote:

This is just Orks 'ard Boyz edition!

How have you been getting that to work? what's the trick to it?

Basically, you have to forego the notion that the Boyz will be cheap, putting them in Trukks while they have armor removes the problems Mob Rule typically gives them. Utilizing MANZ missiles in addition to those 'ard Boyz Trukks provides target saturation. That's what I have concluded the writers intended when wrote this current Dex.

Well, when you need 5s and 6s ain't so bad for lootaz shooting at flyers, it's not so bad.

 Vankraken wrote:


AV10 flyer with BS3 Twin Linked but still its not amazing. Also your picking Eldar Scat Bikes as the comparison and very few things in the game can compare to those undercosted piles of cheddar.

AV10 Flyer with BS3 TL S6 3shot weapons for 130pts. OK since you dont like Scat bike comparison lets do something else. For 130pts I can take 9 Lootas who put out on average 18 S7 shots with longer range and more durable then an AV10 flyer, which when it jinkz (and it will jink) has 9 TL BS1 shots.

Or Against a SM player they can take a Stormtalon for the same price, which is better BS, better AV all around and has 4 TLS6 shots at BS4 (averages almost 4 hits) and with upgrades fires 2 S8 AP3 Krak missiles or 2 S4 blasts.

How about IG?

For 25pts more (or 5 if the ork bought fighter ace) you can get a Vulture Gunship which puts out 20 TL S5 shots and 3 S5 AP4 shots at BS3 Ohh and its AV12/12/10.

Tau?

The horrible Razorshar which for 15pts more is AV11/10/10 BS3 and has 4 S5 shots, 2 Seeker missiles S8 AP3 and a Quad Ion Turret which puts out either 4 S7 AP4 shots OR 1 S8 AP4 large blast.



So again, 130pts for 9 TL S6 shots on a BS1/3 (Jinking, and what not) platform is not scary nor is it cost effective or useful.

Mob Rule rewards units with a decent armor save, eg MANZ and anything with 'eavy Armor and either numbers or multiple wounds. This is just Orks 'ard Boyz edition!

Mob rule on Manz doesn't work nor does it really work on Trukk Boyz. Why? In the shooting phase any unit that has to take a morale test that is below 10 models (IE Manz or Trukk Boyz who got shot at and reduced by 3 or more) fail their Mob rule on a 1,4,5,6 In other words you have a 1/3rd chance to pass that test, and when you do you take D6 hits which on 2+ isn't a big deal but on 4+ (Trukk Boyz) your still losing at least 1 more model on average.

In CC That changes to 1/2 but is still not that good. Of course you could always waste 5pts and buy a bosspole to better your chances of passing your test.

A bosspole is very rarely a waste of 5 points in my mind and certainly not so on Meganobz who dont have to pay to upgrade a model to be eligible to buy one, like Tankbustas for example. You've got roughly a 50% chance to pass that leadership test, then a re-rollable 33% chance to pass it even if you fail at the expense of D6 S4 hits that bounce off your armour 83% of the time. The odds of succeeding increase respectably if you're also in combat, but you shouldn't really be in combat with things you'll lose to anyway and if you are that bosspole won't help much. A MANz bosspole isn't useful every game but it can allow them to cause some real trouble, an exploding Trukk that pins your Meganobz, disallows them from charging and subsequently gets them AP2'd off the board is always unwelcome. It's for units like these that I'm actually glad Mob Rule got changed, it really hurts footsloggers (compared to the old Fearless) but it gives us options for MSU (necessary for the new-at-the-time Maelstrom missions) and allowed our other units to benefit from one of our faction's inherent rules. Note: I really wish Mob Rule was better than it is, but it only really benefited Boyz before.

The slugga boyz are good, the problem is how to transport them.

xlDuke wrote:
A bosspole is very rarely a waste of 5 points in my mind and certainly not so on Meganobz who dont have to pay to upgrade a model to be eligible to buy one, like Tankbustas for example. You've got roughly a 50% chance to pass that leadership test, then a re-rollable 33% chance to pass it even if you fail at the expense of D6 S4 hits that bounce off your armour 83% of the time. The odds of succeeding increase respectably if you're also in combat, but you shouldn't really be in combat with things you'll lose to anyway and if you are that bosspole won't help much. A MANz bosspole isn't useful every game but it can allow them to cause some real trouble, an exploding Trukk that pins your Meganobz, disallows them from charging and subsequently gets them AP2'd off the board is always unwelcome. It's for units like these that I'm actually glad Mob Rule got changed, it really hurts footsloggers (compared to the old Fearless) but it gives us options for MSU (necessary for the new-at-the-time Maelstrom missions) and allowed our other units to benefit from one of our faction's inherent rules. Note: I really wish Mob Rule was better than it is, but it only really benefited Boyz before.

Totally my point. Good job spelling it out.

I think the problem with Orks at the moment isn't the lack of super cheesy units, it's the nerfing of their basic 'bread and butter' strengths. Most notably, Furious Charge and the Bosspole have been nerfed in a way which makes Orks both more likely to take wounds and more likely to rout after failing Morale tests. The +1 Initiative from the old Furious Charge rules made Orks much more effective against low-mid Initiative armies such as Necrons and Guard.

I dislike that Orkz strike slower than Guardsmen, but *shrug*