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Da Kommizzar wrote: I dislike that Orkz strike slower than Guardsmen, but *shrug*
It matters more with things like Cron Flyed Ones. And even if your opponent has Guard or Tau which are medicore in CC at best, sometimes you need every single one of that 12-model Trukk squad to count. I'm not saying that Orks should have great Initiative as having I2 is one of the things which makes them Orks. However another thing which makes them Orks is charging at the enemy, and that thing has been made significantly worse with the nerfing of Furious Charge.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/29 19:06:24
SDFarsight wrote: and that thing has been made significantly worse with the nerfing of Furious Charge.
Don't you mean nerfing Assault generally?
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
the nerfs aren't too bad; it was just never mated to an appropriate adjustment in cost. In fact, the trend has been the opposite.
Things that were auto includes prior were points adjusted upwards to make them less attractive, and things were nerfed as well. But the two sides of those efforts seem to have been completely not in communication with each other.
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
SDFarsight wrote: and that thing has been made significantly worse with the nerfing of Furious Charge.
Don't you mean nerfing Assault generally?
I don't mind that really, it's more the blunt way that the Ork codex is handled. At first glance it looks great, even cheesy with a whole army of 'ardboy 4+ armour and super-heavy walkers being made standard rather than Forgeworld, but when you get closer it's nerfed. As well as the Furious Charge and Bosspoll that I mentioned earlier, there's also the fact that Mob Rule doesn't work in the same way either. It all looks like a poisoned chalice.
xlDuke wrote: A bosspole is very rarely a waste of 5 points in my mind and certainly not so on Meganobz who dont have to pay to upgrade a model to be eligible to buy one, like Tankbustas for example. You've got roughly a 50% chance to pass that leadership test, then a re-rollable 33% chance to pass it even if you fail at the expense of D6 S4 hits that bounce off your armour 83% of the time. The odds of succeeding increase respectably if you're also in combat, but you shouldn't really be in combat with things you'll lose to anyway and if you are that bosspole won't help much. A MANz bosspole isn't useful every game but it can allow them to cause some real trouble, an exploding Trukk that pins your Meganobz, disallows them from charging and subsequently gets them AP2'd off the board is always unwelcome. It's for units like these that I'm actually glad Mob Rule got changed, it really hurts footsloggers (compared to the old Fearless) but it gives us options for MSU (necessary for the new-at-the-time Maelstrom missions) and allowed our other units to benefit from one of our faction's inherent rules. Note: I really wish Mob Rule was better than it is, but it only really benefited Boyz before.
If you're bringing 3 units of Boyz, 3 units of Elites (Meganobz, Tanbustas), and 2 squads of fast attack (Bikes or stormboyz) you are spending 40pts on Bosspoles which are situational at best. If those units are all under 10 (Most will be) that bosspole is basically equivalent to a rerollable 5+ save. It's not that good and I honestly never use them.
The fact is that GW has fethed the orks in LD while making LD in almost every other army a secondary concern. I honestly can't remember the last time I benefited from forcing my opponent to take a leadership check, on the other hand, my opponents start salivating every time they force me to do a check because 50% of the time I lose 2-3 more boyz.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
oldzoggy wrote: Yeah strike last + no saves + low LD is bad for close combat.
They are orks so they should have bad LD They are orks so they should have bad SVs They are orks so they should have bad Initiative They are orks so they should have bad Rules
Basically sums up every argument against orks getting buffs.
We are a Mob CC army. We suck at CC and our units are either Over priced or to weak to really be a Mob for more then turn 1.
The fact that we, a HORDE ARMY, rely on MSU units paints the picture perfectly, we got beaten with the nerf stick to hard and to often.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/30 14:58:16
I actually prefer the MSU style, moving blobs of 30 boyz is really annoying, i wouldn't play a footslogging army even if it was overpowered. Orks in trukks/BWs is how i imagine them anyway.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/30 18:07:43
Can anyone explain why Buzzgob’s Kustom Stompa only costs 300 points in comparison to a regular stompa of 770 points? Orks will be very competitive if all their point costs cut down by half. On the other hand, I don't think I will be that patient to paint up so many orks.
wildger wrote: Can anyone explain why Buzzgob’s Kustom Stompa only costs 300 points in comparison to a regular stompa of 770 points? Orks will be very competitive if all their point costs cut down by half. On the other hand, I don't think I will be that patient to paint up so many orks.
It's a typo, Buzzgob is supposed to get the bare bones stompa for an extra 300pts and has to spend another 400 odd points on upgrades.
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
To be fair why would anyone ever use his kustom stompa when they could just buy a normal big mek stompa and buzzgob and save 300 points for all the same options. That makes even less sense than discounting his stompa by half. I know people like to say that FW released a statement saying it was a typo but I personally feel that was more due to the outrage of a half priced stompa than anything else.
My Armies:
Orks about 15000-16000 mostly unpainted but slowly being worked on
Militarum Tempestus about 2000 points just built
Inquisition about 2000 points unpainted
Officio Assassinorum 570 unpainted
I dont paint quickly
cranect wrote: To be fair why would anyone ever use his kustom stompa when they could just buy a normal big mek stompa and buzzgob and save 300 points for all the same options. That makes even less sense than discounting his stompa by half. I know people like to say that FW released a statement saying it was a typo but I personally feel that was more due to the outrage of a half priced stompa than anything else.
And who cares honestly? All versions of the Stompa are still utter trash. Seriously, BS2 with Strength D 1 shot weapons? The thing has to shoot 3 times before its statistically going to hit one time. So in a 6 turn game your going to hit twice if your luck is average.
The regular Stompa 770pts for a 12hp AV13 super heavy walker whose best gun usually jams by turn 2.
Nah, you'll get more mileage out of a couple units of killa Kanz for the same price then you will the stompa.
cranect wrote: To be fair why would anyone ever use his kustom stompa when they could just buy a normal big mek stompa and buzzgob and save 300 points for all the same options. That makes even less sense than discounting his stompa by half. I know people like to say that FW released a statement saying it was a typo but I personally feel that was more due to the outrage of a half priced stompa than anything else.
And who cares honestly? All versions of the Stompa are still utter trash. Seriously, BS2 with Strength D 1 shot weapons? The thing has to shoot 3 times before its statistically going to hit one time. So in a 6 turn game your going to hit twice if your luck is average.
The regular Stompa 770pts for a 12hp AV13 super heavy walker whose best gun usually jams by turn 2.
Nah, you'll get more mileage out of a couple units of killa Kanz for the same price then you will the stompa.
I generally agree completely, the Stompa is a terrible model for the points with the current codex Stompa taking the cake for being most terrible. There is however something appealing about a Klawstompa (needs updated rules and currently requires pre-game negotiation) and particularly a Kustom Stompa with two Bursta Kannons, Belly Gun and Deff Arsenal.
cranect wrote: To be fair why would anyone ever use his kustom stompa when they could just buy a normal big mek stompa and buzzgob and save 300 points for all the same options. That makes even less sense than discounting his stompa by half. I know people like to say that FW released a statement saying it was a typo but I personally feel that was more due to the outrage of a half priced stompa than anything else.
And who cares honestly? All versions of the Stompa are still utter trash. Seriously, BS2 with Strength D 1 shot weapons? The thing has to shoot 3 times before its statistically going to hit one time. So in a 6 turn game your going to hit twice if your luck is average.
The regular Stompa 770pts for a 12hp AV13 super heavy walker whose best gun usually jams by turn 2.
Nah, you'll get more mileage out of a couple units of killa Kanz for the same price then you will the stompa.
I generally agree completely, the Stompa is a terrible model for the points with the current codex Stompa taking the cake for being most terrible. There is however something appealing about a Klawstompa (needs updated rules and currently requires pre-game negotiation) and particularly a Kustom Stompa with two Bursta Kannons, Belly Gun and Deff Arsenal.
Yeah, none of the stompas are at all point-efficient, but the klawstompa is cheap and if everything goes right can do some serious damage.
40k drinking game: take a shot everytime a book references Skitarii using transports.
I don't think you can even field a klawstompa as unbound these days. FW never clarifies the rules for klawstompa since they are not even compatible with the 6th edition. The new update of the ork dread mob army list only allow for big mek stompa and Buzzgob's special.
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