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GREETINGS fellow nerds, i have come bearing questions of GREAT importance. So get ready cos were gonna paint this forum RED.

#1 Is it possible for a loyalist space marine chapter to have the gene seed of a traitor primarch? Let's say magnus for example. Can a loyalist chapter have the gene seed of the thousand sons?

#2 how rare is cataphractii termie armor for a space marine chapter? Can a chapter have a squad worth of them?

#3 can 2 freeblades be partners in their never ending crusade of vengance. Like wrath and blade of finality

#4 how fast are space marine tanks ?

#5 is it possible to jump in terminator armor Gabriel angelos can do it can a normal space marine can?

#6 can space marines have chainspears? Like captain sevatarion of the night lord. (Why the feth does he get one?)

#7 how long does an imperial knight live?

I thank you all for putting up with my gak and thank you for answering my questions. Happy slaaneshmas and sanguinala everyone. (even though it's already been a month)



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feth my grammar is heretical.

Don't start your thread with "fellow nerds". It's impolite and demeaning. Learn to be nice, espescially when you're asking for something. It makes you seem spoiled.

Now then, the questions.
1: yes, though not officially. The blood ravens are rumoured descendants of the Thousand sons. Since most of your questions are Dow related I assume this is what you where fishing for.

2: don't know the pattern. Yes it's definetly possible to have a squad wearing it. Either a STC of that particular design exist, a bunch of suits have survived or they could have been found say, ob board a Space hulk strapped on long dead marines.
In short: rare, yes.

3: yes

4: depends on the loadout. White scars tanks typically avoid sponsors to increase the speed potential. I'm not familiar with real life tanks so I'll go with the vauge "potentially fast".

5: Not with regular gravity. Lower gravity worlds or ships could definetly see jumping terminators, which also incidently functions in vaccum. Gabriel Angelos is a very specific snowflake who's summersaulting terminator leaps are more visually pleasing then lore representative.

6: yes.

7: The knight is a machine, so as long as it's maintained. The driver is human, so as long as a human with rejuvination treatments can survive. I'd say up to 1.400years maximum looking at Dante, but I have no better source.

Please behave nicer next time. This is not a Youtube comment section.

Well, as for the whole can space marines (assuming they are a loyalist chapter) have chain-glaives? No they cannot, this is a legion specific piece of equipment used by the Night Lords and only by them. Sevatar only has one because he is a Night Lords legionnaire. If you are planning on giving them chain glaives then they definitely need some kind of connection to the 8th legion.

 Nerak wrote:
Don't start your thread with "fellow nerds". It's impolite and demeaning. Learn to be nice, espescially when you're asking for something. It makes you seem spoiled.

Now then, the questions.
1: yes, though not officially. The blood ravens are rumoured descendants of the Thousand sons. Since most of your questions are Dow related I assume this is what you where fishing for.

2: don't know the pattern. Yes it's definetly possible to have a squad wearing it. Either a STC of that particular design exist, a bunch of suits have survived or they could have been found say, ob board a Space hulk strapped on long dead marines.
In short: rare, yes.

3: yes

4: depends on the loadout. White scars tanks typically avoid sponsors to increase the speed potential. I'm not familiar with real life tanks so I'll go with the vauge "potentially fast".

5: Not with regular gravity. Lower gravity worlds or ships could definetly see jumping terminators, which also incidently functions in vaccum. Gabriel Angelos is a very specific snowflake who's summersaulting terminator leaps are more visually pleasing then lore representative.

6: yes.

7: The knight is a machine, so as long as it's maintained. The driver is human, so as long as a human with rejuvination treatments can survive. I'd say up to 1.400years maximum looking at Dante, but I have no better source.

Please behave nicer next time. This is not a Youtube comment section.

Woah, bro, you need to seriously chill out. It's self-depreciating humour intended to build a relationship with the reader through a shared interest. It is not in anyway meant to be an insult. While it may be consindered impolite at a formal occasion like a funeral, let's try to remember this is dakka and we're supposed to be an informal, friendly community. I hate to say it, but right now, you're the one that has come off as impolite and spoiled. Expecially when you're issuing imperatives through minor sentences like you have a higher relative status than him.

Reading it again I agree that I worded things a bit to strongly. My apologies.

Then again he is an inquisitorial interrogator and i'm just a neophyte theying to earn my black carapace.


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Trying*


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Relating to the chainglaive can't i just steal a couple from some dead nightlords? or get off of some dead nightlords in a space hulk?

I also saw nothing wrong with the intro.

#1: Yes, but they probably don't know it and if they do, they'll likely have developed a few guilt issues because of it. If anyone outside the upper echelons of the chapter found out, they would likely be sent on a suicide penitential crusade or declared traitors outright.
#2: Rare, but not prohibitively so.
#3: Don't see why not.
#4: About 40kph, give or take depending on on surface conditions on tonnage of the tank.
#5: No. DoW3 is going to be a bigger disappointment than the Imperial Webway project.
#6: They can, they just don't outside of the NL/WE. Just like how most people didn't use katanas outside Japan. It's just a cultural thing.
#7: Most high class humans can live to around 200 years. They could probably live a few hundred more with extensive mechanical augmentation.

 corfortius74 wrote:
Relating to the chainglaive can't i just steal a couple from some dead nightlords? or get off of some dead nightlords in a space hulk?

It's possible. But why would they want to adopt the cultural weapon of a traitor legion? We may think the NL are cool dudes, but to loyal marines, they are the most deplorable bastards this side of Terra.

As I see it, your options are:
You have one glaive in your army belonging to one of your captains who took it as a trophy after he killed a particularly skilled NL/WE champion.
Your chapter regularly fights the NL/WE and has a culture of taking the weapon of the most powerful foe they've slain.
Your chapter is secretly descended from the NL/WE and have gradually adopted much of their culture from the genetic memory in their gene seed or something. Thus leading to chainglaive use being widespread.
Do what you want and use chainglaives anyway because they aren't totally exclusive to NL/WE they're just rare and no one will really bat an eye at your army using them.

1. A Loyalist Chapter *can* have traitor geneseed, but it isn't common by any stretch of the imagination, and would be frowned upon, to the point of possible purges, by other Imperial forces. Remember, no Chapter has ever outright said they are of Traitor geneseed, but a few are rumoured to be. It's doubtful they'd even know, or if they did, they would be disgusted at the mere association of such vile heretics.

2. Cataphractii is rare, no longer in production really, but it's certainly possible that they may have received some if they were founded directly from a First Founding Chapter (so no traitor geneseed there), or happened to find some in a ruin of some kind. However, alongside the massive rarity of finding Cataphractii, finding a workable set would be even more rare. So, possible, but very rare.

3. Freeblades can do whatever they want. They're unburdened from the chains of their households, so a pair of Knights could easily find themselves working together indefinitely.

4. Well, I don't believe I know any solid stats, but I can say that Blood Angels have the fastest. 40k/h sounds fair.

5. No. They might hop, like an Encumbered character in TES V: Skyrim might, but as for the leaps and bounds Angelos does? Nope, that's a creative license right there, and not supported by canon. Especially not Cataphractii, as the slowest armour variant.

6. Night Lord chainglaives were exclusive to them. Sevatarion, and many Night Lords officers, had them because they were the Legion's signature weapon, like Ultramarines had Legatine Axes, Emperor's Children had Phoenix Spears and Death Guard had Power Scythes. Your chapter may have some, if they can find somewhere which produces them (unlikely, due to the next point), but why would a loyalist chapter take up the weapon of a filthy heretic?

7. A Knight can live as long as it's repaired, and the Pilot can live as long as they receive juvenant treaments and aren't killed in battle. Juve treatments might be the price the pilot asks for in exchange for their services.

Unofficial 8. If you plan to loot them off Night Lords, good luck finding some Night Lords carrying chainglaives. It's a big galaxy, and chainglaives are rarely used anymore by the very elusive Night Lords. Not to mention that, if you happened to stumble across any, they might be faulty, damaged, and you have no way to sanction a repair on them. And again, why would a Loyalist Chapter want to use the tools of the enemy, unless you're not quite that loyal.

What's the stability of the night lords gene seed


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I know the night lords hated everyone but there must gave beet atleast a couple of them that remained loyal or something right?

 corfortius74 wrote:
What's the stability of the night lords gene seed

One of the more pure geneseeds. However, it's doubtful a chapter would have it because traitor geneseed is not really used for the creation of new Chapters, and there's no Chapter confirmed to have traitor geneseed. However, it's possible, but VERY unlikely.

I know the night lords hated everyone but there must gave beet atleast a couple of them that remained loyal or something right?

If you're suggesting having your Chapter made up of Loyalist Night Lords, there's a few issues. Firstly, being made up of Loyal Traitor Legionnaires is very often seen as Snowflakey. Might not be very popular or original. Is there a particular reason they need to be descended from Night Lords?
Next, the "loyal traitors" thing works with most legions, barring a few - these being the Word Bearers, who practically started the heresy and the Night Lords. The Night Lords, to my knowledge, had no purge to kill their loyalists, and even then, the standard of loyalty isn't high. You're looking at a legion of prisoners, murderers, convicts, rapists, sadists, you name it - the Night Lords are very unlikely to have any love for the Emperor. Coupled with the fact that they would struggle to fit into the Imperium post-heresy, have no recruiting planet, and lack geneseed support, logistical support, or any real aid, the chance of some Loyal Night Lords descendants is possible, but very low.

Why do you want loyal Night Lords?

Well if you want to go for the Night Lords angle for your Fanon Chapter, then your best bet is to start by reading the Night Lords Lexicanum page and Night Lords Wiki page. Become familiar with them. (P.S. Your question with regards to Gene-Seed should be answered on at least one of those pages.) Then I found that the best way to have similarities with a Traitor Legion is to essentially try to imagine a Loyalist version of the Legion in question. For example, I tried to do this with my Fanon Chapter, The Knights of the Hawk, where I tried to create a Chapter with a number of similarities to the Iron Warriors Legion. This may be the best way to achieve what you want as well as allow you to say pull the juicy 'Blood Ravens Syndrome' and have them be suspected of succeeding the Night Lords Legion.

I know the night lords hated everyone but there must gave beet atleast a couple of them that remained loyal or something right?

I can't remember the Astartes' name off the top of my head, but there was an Iron Warriors Commander and a few fellow Iron Warriors who remained loyal.



So it is possible for there to have been Loyalist Astartes from every Traitor Legion and Traitor Astartes from every Loyalist Legion, but whether or not these Loyalists from Traitor Legions lived on to become Chapters after the Heresy is completely unknown.

Even though a "loyal" night lord is still a night lord.

There culture was fear.
They where reprimanded even before heresey...

Unlikely. But could happen and there founders still be no good guys.

 corfortius74 wrote:
What's the stability of the night lords gene seed

The stability of the night lords gene seed is nearly devoid of mutation and exceptionally pure. It compares well with that of ultras or imperial fists. It is by far the most stable of the traitor gene seeds.

But it gives a slice of Curze's precognicion. As it drove Curze insane it is believe that it also drives the marines insane.

I know the night lords hated everyone but there must gave beet atleast a couple of them that remained loyal or something right?

In some of the fluff, the night lords never fell to chaos, they just felt like betraying the emperor without any additional corruption. Their was no quest for supreme power, promise of forbidden knowledge, or precious reward in store for them when they went traitor. That should give you some idea of what kind of group they were. They saw the imperium for the lie it was, but rather than beliving in what the chaos gods were providing, they just decided they could do better. Already inclined to be spacebatman, fighting injustice in brutal/unscanctioned ways they became pure thugs.

You also have to look at what they did to their home planet. Even a loyal night lord would have still butchered thousands of innocent lives with their bare hands. That was the good one, the truely evil ones killed millions.

I haven't read any of responses, so I apologize if I repeat something that has already been said.

On the chain glaive issue, if you are building your chapter off of Konrad Kurze's gene seed, then I wouldn't be opposed, especially if it looked awesome

If I remember correctly, There was a loyalist and traitor sect of each chapter if I recall correctly, like certain White Scars fell to chaos, and some Iron Warriors stayed loyal (I think they mentioned that in Garro, but I am probably wrong so please correct me)

a whole chapter/company might be a bit much, but anything is possible in the 41st Millenium.

So in general if i wanted my chapter to have any relation to the night lords they would have to have many similarities to them and have them suspected OR actually be succesors to the night lords. (Like, Let's say you have some miraculous nightlord captain or officer think "i know the imperium stupid but i think chaos is more stupid" or some gak and remains loyal "BARELY "
Then he's chewed up for his legion going traitor and then his gene seed is collected or something, then in the future the high lords of terra want to make an space marine chapter and then slaps the gene seed in for se fething reason and does some tinkering to get rid of the insane gak and poof space marine chapter that's hopefully not Bat gak crazy.)
P.S The reasoning behind why i'm diving into this subject is because i want my space marine chapter to have some rich lore.
And I'm sorry to all of you who have to put up with my gak. So thank you all you beautiful battle brothers you. *hugs*


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Also as a additional note to the loyalist night lords would it help if they don't know where they come from?


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The capter i meant


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Curse my heretical spelling

Well you can basically do anything in this respect. You can say that a company was lost in the warp, and only later reappeared to see the post heresy imperium, and disguised themselves as a chapter to maintain survivability. You can even include some Black Dragon level conspiracies, like Apothecaries killing astartes of other chapters for geneseed and the such.

Really 40k is a setting and not a storyline, so you can do whatever you want.

The Blood Ravens are suspected successors of the Thousand Sons because the Thousand Sons were super psychic and the such, so maybe say that it is thought your chapter is a descendant of the Night Lords because a Night Lords company was lost during the heresy and hasn't reappeared, but your chapter uses many of the same combat doctrines of the Night Lords, and has a similar armory (chainglaives and the such), maybe even throw some night lord bits in there.

corfortius74 wrote:So in general if i wanted my chapter to have any relation to the night lords they would have to have many similarities to them and have them suspected OR actually be succesors to the night lords. (Like, Let's say you have some miraculous nightlord captain or officer think "i know the imperium stupid but i think chaos is more stupid" or some gak and remains loyal "BARELY "

The only way to be an actual Night Lord is to be descended from them. Behaving like them would likely cause many Imperials to deem them too savage, and be a one-way ticket on the Heresy train, considering how brutal they were.
So, that leaves us with geneseed. The problem with your idea of a single officer making it through the Heresy is that why would he turn to the Imperium? Sure, he might think it better than Chaos, but what's to stop him simply going rogue, like most Night Lords did? If he was the only Loyalist too, why don't the HLOT/whoever was in charge when he was discovered either put him down, as a filthy heretic, or assign him to the Deathwatch or Knights Errant - not give him a whole Chapter of his own.

Then he's chewed up for his legion going traitor and then his gene seed is collected or something, then in the future the high lords of terra want to make an space marine chapter and then slaps the gene seed in for se fething reason and does some tinkering to get rid of the insane gak and poof space marine chapter that's hopefully not Bat gak crazy.)

Why would the HLOT use traitorous Night Lord geneseed, instead of the more reliable Ultramarine or Dark Angel geneseeds?
Not to mention that geneseed tinkering is no laughing matter - over ten thousand years, the Blood Angels and their descendants haven't cured the Red Thirst at all.

P.S The reasoning behind why i'm diving into this subject is because i want my space marine chapter to have some rich lore.
And I'm sorry to all of you who have to put up with my gak. So thank you all you beautiful battle brothers you. *hugs*

The thing is, you don't need to have your Chapter be descended from traitors, or have a super secret secret, or be the best at something, or be super elite - that doesn't make them have rich background. What makes them have rich background is a well written outline of the Chapter, their beliefs and traditions, their history - and it doesn't have to be OTT.

Really, it's your Chapter, and you can do what you want, but making your Chapter out of ex-Traitors is one of the biggest fluff things people pick out.

Also as a additional note to the loyalist night lords would it help if they don't know where they come from?

That depends if they're ALL Night Lords, or just some of the Chapter were actual Night Lords.

If only some are ACTUAL Night Lords, then it would undoubtedly be better if they were kept in the dark.

You can do what you want, but your idea is sounding very snowflakey.

If this is about justifying the use of chainglaives, don't worry about it and just use them, no one will question it.
If this is about playing a NL army but without using the CSM codex, just use the SM codex and say they're simply a renegade NL warband.
If you want to play a loyalist segment of a chainglaive using traitor legion, consider making them WE (or Warhounds to be precise) instead. They were actually somewhat reasonable before the Nails happened.

If you REALLY want to play loyalist NL, merely hint at it ("they are plagued by dark premonitions" or "they are savage, callous and undisciplined" etc) rather than outright saying "they have Kurze's geneseed".
To justify them being NL, it should really be an accident such as "during the creation of their chapter, a stock of NL geneseed which had been mistakenly categorised as the geneseed of a loyalist legion was used." The idea of NL staying loyal to the Imperium is pretty out there, they were some seriously bad dudes.

So it just had to be an accident? Of some sort

 corfortius74 wrote:
So it just had to be an accident? Of some sort

Yes, probably one the Chapter isn't even aware of. They have precog abilities and a savage nature in combat, but they might believe that they are just descendents of White Scars or Blood Angels. However, the "accidental geneseed sample" isn't a flawless approach. If the Chapter suffered massive losses in battle and needed a restock of geneseed from the HLOT, they wouldn't get Night Lord geneseed, but whatever Chapter they think they are. They would also have no access to chainglaives, because they would have no facilities to make/use them, and geneseed doesn't affect what weapons you like using. They might not even fight in a Night Lords manner, trying to follow the Codex like a normal Chapter, but being plagued by precog nightmares of the Chapter being purged and having a lust for savagery in combat.

In that respect, you can have them not embody the whole "Night Lords BUT THEY'RE LOYALIST!!11!" approach but rather have them as slaves to a tainted father, trying to be the best they can be, but being hampered by their own unwitting flaws. That would mean them trying to fit with Codex approved tactics, but having that hidden urge to flay and skin their opponents alive. That, to me, in an infinitely more engaging army prospect.

Like all the best parts of 40k lore, descendence from Traitor geneseed is best left as an unconfirmed suggestion for the reader to interpret/research as they so desire.

In your case, I like Duckshape's idea of hinting at their tactics being exceptionally cruel and brutal, and other things like that than outright stating that 'they've got Night Lord geneseed'. Much more fun

Write snippets of diary entries of IG regiments fighting against them, and how they were appalled by what they were seeing.

Write a snippet of the research notes of a techpriest assigned to creating the chapter. Note the physical description of his prototypes: their lank black hair and pallid skin. Write about what happens when one of his test subjects escapes...

Write another snippet of a requisition order to the deranged Magos Biologis who undertook the experiment. Build into it how the Segmentum Lord in question was having difficulty with a chaos cult that was so unshaken in its belief of salvation after death that they would never retreat from battle. Put in how the desperate Lord has the fervent, almost irrational desire to 'teach these heretics how to fear the Imperium'.

Writing about your chapter from an outsider's perspective is one of the more powerful tools available to you

Take inspiration from the Carcharadons of how to do a 'mysterious possibly traitor in origin chapter' properly.

Most of those questions are already answered - so a quick note about the number of Loyalists from the Traitor LegionsI've put them in order of magnitude:

1. The Iron Warriors possess the greatest known number of Loyalists. In addition to a few named individuals such as Barabus Dantioch, the entirety of the 77th and 114th Grand Companies (Nominally a GC is circa 1000 before casualties) under Kyr Vhalen and Narik Dreygur respectively remained loyal. So, circa 2000 Iron Warrior Loyalists are known about.

2. Death Guard: Nathenial Garro lead the 7th Company to Terra on the Eisenstien. whilst he became a Knight-Errant, it can be assumed his Loyalist Death Guard were packed off somewhere else when they got to Terra and Dorn. Similarly, other individual Loyalist DG lead small warbands to fight for the Emperor such as those under Crysos Morturg.

3. World Eaters. Like Garro, Macer Varren lead his 10th Company away from Isstvan III and then went off to be a Knight-Errant. Presumably, the 10th Company went off to fight for the Emperor.

4. Emperor's Children: Macer Varren was joined by loyalist EC forces under Rakatio - who was later killed. However, it's likely that there are a few scattered individuals of the EC who escaped Isstvan III and still fought for the Emperor and Rakatio wasn't said to lead a whole Company from Isstvan III.

5. Luna Wolves. As Horus's personal Legion, there are only really scattered individuals such as Iacton Qruze, Severian and Garviel Loken.

6. Night Lords: Only two. Fel Zharost was inducted into the Knights Errant and Kasati Nuon fought alongside the Raven Guard after the Dropsite Massacre.

7. Word Bearers: Only one known. Barthusa Narek. Even then, he wasn't full Loyalist, he was just more loyal to the 'Old' Legion, than what the Legion had become.

8. Thousand Sons: Only one confirmed, Revuel Arvida, who became the first Grand Master of the Grey Knights. However, it is known that a significant proportion of the Legion, possibly around 100 or so, were ordere to leave Prospero prior to the burning of Prospero. Revuel Arvida was one - hence it is plausible that a great many TS Loyalist may potentially have existed.

9. Alpha Legion: The ultimate mystery. Nobody knows if the whole Legion were Traitors or Secret Loyalists. Furthermore, new lore hints or suggests that perhaps the twin Primarchs were opposed to each other, resulting in a possible split down the middle of the Legion.

The last two are highly speculative. The rest are accurate as far as the novels and FW books do support the info. Hope that helps.

So the best course of action is to have another imperial force look at them from a different point of view for example: like what wraith said have imperial documents of what each imperial force record what they saw, being out right disgusted of what they saw or how relived they were when the chapter turned things around with much ferocity.

TBH, unless they really have to have a Night Lords link, you can use normal 'unbranded' chainglaives as much as you want. At the end of the day, a chainglaive is just like any other chain-weapon, it just so happens that the only ones we hear about using chainglaives are Night Lords. It's not unlikely that somebody somewhere else just decided to stick a chainsword on a pole to give him some extra reach. Take thunder-hammers for example - Salamanders are renowned for using hammers, but just about any other chapter does as well. It's just a weapon that they're often seen using.

 corfortius74 wrote:
I guess i can just have my chapter fight the night lords alot and just claim a captains chainglaive as they're prize. Or better yet have a new weapon entirely.

Yes, that's probably a better route than trying to find a way to give them traitor geneseed.

Maybe their chapter's culture revolves around individual martial pride to justify the trophy taking.

That said, simply giving them chainglaives would be easier still, it's uncommon to see them being used outside of the NL but they're hardly exclusive to them.

corfortius74 wrote:So the best course of action is to have another imperial force look at them from a different point of view for example: like what wraith said have imperial documents of what each imperial force record what they saw, being out right disgusted of what they saw or how relived they were when the chapter turned things around with much ferocity.

Essentially yes.

Sgt_Smudge wrote:However, the "accidental geneseed sample" isn't a flawless approach. If the Chapter suffered massive losses in battle and needed a restock of geneseed from the HLOT, they wouldn't get Night Lord geneseed, but whatever Chapter they think they are.

Well I have to disagree with you on this because it comes down to two things:

(1) How much of the Chapter's Gene-Seed is 'In Storage'. Because if they have a relatively significant store of their own Gene-Seed and they are indeed remnants of the Night Lords Legion, then they would indeed be getting the Night Lords Gene-Seed as opposed to the Gene-Seed of the Chapter they supposedly succeeded.

(2) If the Chapter is lucky enough to have one or more Successor Chapters, then this particular Chapter may take recruits from their successors (similar to what the Blood Angels and a number of other Chapters have done).

What I mean to say is that unless some extenuating circumstances apply, it is likely that the Chapter would retain their heretical Gene-Seed regardless of whether or not they're away of their origins.

 IllumiNini wrote:

Sgt_Smudge wrote:However, the "accidental geneseed sample" isn't a flawless approach. If the Chapter suffered massive losses in battle and needed a restock of geneseed from the HLOT, they wouldn't get Night Lord geneseed, but whatever Chapter they think they are.

Well I have to disagree with you on this because it comes down to two things:

(1) How much of the Chapter's Gene-Seed is 'In Storage'. Because if they have a relatively significant store of their own Gene-Seed and they are indeed remnants of the Night Lords Legion, then they would indeed be getting the Night Lords Gene-Seed as opposed to the Gene-Seed of the Chapter they supposedly succeeded.

(2) If the Chapter is lucky enough to have one or more Successor Chapters, then this particular Chapter may take recruits from their successors (similar to what the Blood Angels and a number of other Chapters have done).

What I mean to say is that unless some extenuating circumstances apply, it is likely that the Chapter would retain their heretical Gene-Seed regardless of whether or not they're away of their origins.

Chapters do not tend to have much of their own geneseed in storage. If they have excess they go crusading until attrition brings them down.

All loyal chapters also need to tithe 8% of their gene seed back to the IoM where it can be examined, tested, and stored(to make new chapters). If there was a snafu that resulted in Night Lord gene see being used in creation, it would not be something that could be hidden from the high lords of terra.

So in that circumstances what would the high lords do?

Exergy wrote:

 IllumiNini wrote:

Spoiler:

Sgt_Smudge wrote:However, the "accidental geneseed sample" isn't a flawless approach. If the Chapter suffered massive losses in battle and needed a restock of geneseed from the HLOT, they wouldn't get Night Lord geneseed, but whatever Chapter they think they are.

Well I have to disagree with you on this because it comes down to two things:

(1) How much of the Chapter's Gene-Seed is 'In Storage'. Because if they have a relatively significant store of their own Gene-Seed and they are indeed remnants of the Night Lords Legion, then they would indeed be getting the Night Lords Gene-Seed as opposed to the Gene-Seed of the Chapter they supposedly succeeded.

(2) If the Chapter is lucky enough to have one or more Successor Chapters, then this particular Chapter may take recruits from their successors (similar to what the Blood Angels and a number of other Chapters have done).

What I mean to say is that unless some extenuating circumstances apply, it is likely that the Chapter would retain their heretical Gene-Seed regardless of whether or not they're away of their origins.

So in a very circumstantial situation and if the High lords of terra don't purge these supposed loyalists night lords. It's within possibility, and that's only if they take the gene seed dub it "unknown" or keep it a highly guarded secret. have it used in a space marine chapter for a very specific reason, and then you have a space marine chapter.i have one question though: if these circumstances were to be filled out through some miracle of the emperor, would the High Lords of Terra alter the gene seed in anyway to remove the negative visions they have.


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I understand the flaws of having this traitor loyalist chapter. And i understand it may not work out but I'm committed to see if there is the slightest chance that this will work.