Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So another thread proposed that each Primarchs was an aspect of the Emperor, or at least that he had a specific use in mind for each of them..

Russ as the executioner, Guilliman as the Empire builder and so on.

But I'm not personally able to pin a tail on each particular donkey, some of them are pretty obvious. But others seem to be generic "great generals and leaders" so the theory doesn't hold up that much.

So would anyone care to have a bash at lining it all up for me?

Lion : the emperor's rationality, his analytical talent free from the burden of conscience and morality

Fulgrim : the "perfect" warrior, striving for that perfection and the vanity that might come from it.

Perturabo : the Emperor's Hammer which wreaks havoc on every one of His enemies' creations.

Khan : the part of uncertainty that exists in any system

Leman Russ : the executor, and the emperor's ferocity unshackled from reason.

Dorn : The praetorian, the defender, the last wall. Also the one that always follows, always obeys. The dutiful aspect of the Emperor.

Konrad : an instrument of justice by nature, to look the traitors and the thieves in the eyes before delivering the sentence. Justice through fear.

Sanguinius : the Emperor's vision and the best blend of all his attributes.

Ferrus : the incarnation of strength, both of character and body.

Angron : quite difficult since he didn't turned out as the Emperor wished it, but it's blind fury, the part of blind violence coming from Him.

Guilliman : the echo of the Emperor, of his soul and his aspirations. The one that would lead the Imperium if something happened to the Emperor.

Mortarion : the strength to endure everything, to be relentless whatever the circumstances

Magnus : the Emperor's psychic potential and his hunger for knowledge and powers, without any patience or restraint.

Horus : the Emperor's ambition devoid of humility. Also the one to bring all his brothers together as he can feel them, the star that shines the brightest.

Lorgar : Lorgar bears his father's face, and with it his hopes, his belief in a better life and the will to enlighten mankind to its full potential.

Vulkan : he inherited the role of Mankind's shield, to protect it against anything.

Corax : the Emperor's Shadow

Alpharius : pride, hubris, obsession.

A translation from a french forum, from informations gathered in the Horus Heresy novels.

Angron is loyalty and brotherhood. He was prepared to die by the side of his rebellious army, and his loyalty was broken when the Emperor betrayed his forces by taking him from the fight.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Angron is loyalty and brotherhood. He was prepared to die by the side of his rebellious army, and his loyalty was broken when the Emperor betrayed his forces by taking him from the fight.

Damn right, so many people miss that, I think had he not been corrupted he would have been the one th a unites his brother's.

 Formosa wrote:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Angron is loyalty and brotherhood. He was prepared to die by the side of his rebellious army, and his loyalty was broken when the Emperor betrayed his forces by taking him from the fight.

Damn right, so many people miss that, I think had he not been corrupted he would have been the one th a unites his brother's.

It's indeed interesting to be aware of the difference between what each Primarch was INTENTED TO BE (by the Emperor) and He put in them, and what they became by being scattered on "random" worlds. Guilliman seems to think that the scattering was actually willed by Big E to forge and temper them (hence the World Eaters disappointment when they realize their Primarch is the only one that couldn't conquer his own world).

Engrenages wrote:

Perturabo : the Emperor's Hammer which wreaks havoc on every one of His enemies' creations.

Perturabo had the emperor's technical genius. He was able to build the most fantastic machines and technology

Konrad : an instrument of justice by nature, to look the traitors and the thieves in the eyes before delivering the sentence. Justice through fear.

Curze had the emperors foresight, or perhaps even better. He saw things as they would become not as they were. Due to the planet he fell on, he tended to see the dark side of anyone and learned to use fear as his primary weapon, but in terms of raw ability, the dude is pure divination/foresight

Lorgar : Lorgar bears his father's face, and with it his hopes, his belief in a better life and the will to enlighten mankind to its full potential.

Lorgar was the premire builder of the primarchs. He ends up getting punished by big E for doing too much building and not enough fighting

Corax for when he felt like being a crow.

Everybody feels like that sometimes, you know?

I think Engrenages mostly has the right of it, there are a few I would argue though.

I'd put Russ down as the Big E's competitive aspect - He had no intention of being 'Warmaster' but Russ did want to be 'The Best' of his brothers. He was hardly unchecked rage or simply ferocity and I wouldn't call 'Executioner' a personality trait, nor was Russ particularly keen on executing his brothers - don't forget his official Primarch head count is a nice round number. 'Dutiful' may be the base trait.

Horus was the Emperor's insecurity, that niggling thought he's not up to the task - I think he was probably supposed to be the 'Sociable' aspect to back up being the leader, possibly the 'Charismatic' aspect - none of his brothers actually hated him, some weren't overly impressed with him having such favoritism from the Emperor but he wasn't hated before he turned. One of my friends claims Horus' aspect would be 'Intuitiveness' the ability to really see people and understand them - did a great job with Angron though...

Corax doesn't have much written about his personality but a look into ravens in Heraldry showed their meaning to be 'Providence' so it could be argued that Corax was the Emperor's 'Foresight' or the 'Protective' aspect of his personality, possibly even 'Prudence'.

Serious question: is there a connection between corax and norse mythology? Odin's ravens, and all that?

 amazingturtles wrote:
Serious question: is there a connection between corax and norse mythology? Odin's ravens, and all that?

That was my thought too, it's why I looked Ravens up as heraldry.
According to the page I was looking at the Vikings didn't use Heraldry to tell a story like France, England, Germany - they just like cool pictures. Not sure if there's truth in that but that's their belief.

Here's what I can make out. Bear in mind that these are aspects oof the Emperor's personality, not abilities or intents. for example, Vulkan may have had the ability of a Perpetual or te Intent of being Mankind's protector, but his aspect of the Emperor's personality was his Humanity.

Lion: Authority - Even amongst his peers, the Lion was regarded with a touch of awe. The First-Born, the Lion commanded the respect of all who faced him.

Fulgrim: Dedication - Fulgrim personifies the Emperor's will to do better, to go one further and to further his scope every waking minute.

Perturabo: Inventiveness - Perturabo represents the scientifically creative aspect of the Emperor, devising creative solutions to physical problems.

Khan - Mystique - Khan represents the secretive, mercurial nature of the Emperor, the ability to hide ones thoughts and intents behind a mask ofsomething else entirely. Khan was never understood by his brothers and was often thought of as a simple barbarian, but hidden was an intensely principled person.

Leman Russ: Passion - Russ personifies the intense belief in a whole way of life. Russ believed wholeheartedly in the righteousness of his orders from the Emperor, which made him such an effective enforcer, just as the Emperor was passionate about his duty towards Humanity.

Dorn: Militancy - Dorn possesses the Emperor's sense of militancy, with an affinity for war. Possessing a little of all the other Primarchs traits, Dorn had the ability to forge an effective military force whatever the conditions, drawing myriad assets into an effective fighting unit.

Curze: Justice - Curze, more than Russ had an innate sense of Justice and of the ability to inspire obedience, therefore, he more than any other, represents the Emperor's sense of Justice.

Sanguinius: Charisma - Sanguinius is the face of the Emperor than one cannot say 'No' to. His is the aspect that inspires trust and loyalty, the force that binds the others together.

Ferrus: Resolve - Different from Fulgrim's Dedication, Resolve is the willingness to stand, to not back down to a challenge and to give your all.

Angron: Loyalty - Ironic, but Angron was willing to die for his brothers. As has been said, the Emperor shattered this when he forced Angron to abandon his comrades. Different from Russ's passion, Angron's Loyalty is the sort of personal loyalty between individuals, rather than loyalty to an ideal.

Guilliman: Organisation - Guilliman exemplifies the organisational side of the Emperor, the ability to multi-task and develop complex and overwhelming ideas or data into effective, functioning systems.

Mortarion: Endurance - Different from Fulgrim's Dedication or Ferrus's Resolve, Mortarion represents the mind-numbing determination to prevale even under grinding hardship and harsh setbacks. The sort of dedication of that sustains a slave or a shipwrecked mariner.

Magnus: Knowledge - Magnus inherits the Emperor's desire to know more, to expand the mind as much as possible.

Horus: Logic - Horus represented the judicious use of force, the knowledge of exactly what needs to go where and it what magnitude to gain a result. Different to Guilliman's Organisation, an Analytical mind concerns itself with judging particular sets of circumstances in turn rather than preparing for any number of eventualities.

Lorgar: Faith - Again, Ironic, but Lorgar does seem to inherit the ability to believe, in the wrong thing perhaps, but the Emperor believed as devoutly in the ability of the Human Race as Lorgar did in the Emperor's divinity.

Vulkan: Humanity - Vulkan represents the core of the Emperor's motives, concern for the common person and a desire to do good. Different from Russ's general passion in the righteousness of a cause, Vulkan's humanity is more concerned with the will to do right by each individual in each circumstance he encounters.

Corax - Subtlety - Corax represents the ability to influence events by the most subtle of actions and the utility of observation and surgical action to create results.

Alpharius/Omegon: Manipulation - Alpharius and Omegon represent the genius of thought, the ability to find change conditions too bring about a certain end. Different to Perturabo's inventiveness or Corax's Subtlety, Alpharius/Omegon's Innovation is more in relation to the manipulation of facts and circumstances and peoples characteristics rather than the use of physical actions or problem-solving to gain a desired outcome.

I probably went overboard, but I always find this topic interesting.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Here's what I can make out. Bear in mind that these are aspects oof the Emperor's personality, not abilities or intents. for example, Vulkan may have had the ability of a Perpetual or te Intent of being Mankind's protector, but his aspect of the Emperor's personality was his Humanity.

Lion: Authority - Even amongst his peers, the Lion was regarded with a touch of awe. The First-Born, the Lion commanded the respect of all who faced him.

Fulgrim: Dedication - Fulgrim personifies the Emperor's will to do better, to go one further and to further his scope every waking minute.

Perturabo: Inventiveness - Perturabo represents the scientifically creative aspect of the Emperor, devising creative solutions to physical problems.

Khan - Mystique - Khan represents the secretive, mercurial nature of the Emperor, the ability to hide ones thoughts and intents behind a mask ofsomething else entirely. Khan was never understood by his brothers and was often thought of as a simple barbarian, but hidden was an intensely principled person.

Leman Russ: Passion - Russ personifies the intense belief in a whole way of life. Russ believed wholeheartedly in the righteousness of his orders from the Emperor, which made him such an effective enforcer, just as the Emperor was passionate about his duty towards Humanity.

Dorn: Militancy - Dorn possesses the Emperor's sense of militancy, with an affinity for war. Possessing a little of all the other Primarchs traits, Dorn had the ability to forge an effective military force whatever the conditions, drawing myriad assets into an effective fighting unit.

Curze: Justice - Curze, more than Russ had an innate sense of Justice and of the ability to inspire obedience, therefore, he more than any other, represents the Emperor's sense of Justice.

Sanguinius: Charisma - Sanguinius is the face of the Emperor than one cannot say 'No' to. His is the aspect that inspires trust and loyalty, the force that binds the others together.

Ferrus: Resolve - Different from Fulgrim's Dedication, Resolve is the willingness to stand, to not back down to a challenge and to give your all.

Angron: Loyalty - Ironic, but Angron was willing to die for his brothers. As has been said, the Emperor shattered this when he forced Angron to abandon his comrades. Different from Russ's passion, Angron's Loyalty is the sort of personal loyalty between individuals, rather than loyalty to an ideal.

Guilliman: Organisation - Guilliman exemplifies the organisational side of the Emperor, the ability to multi-task and develop complex and overwhelming ideas or data into effective, functioning systems.

Mortarion: Endurance - Different from Fulgrim's Dedication or Ferrus's Resolve, Mortarion represents the mind-numbing determination to prevale even under grinding hardship and harsh setbacks. The sort of dedication of that sustains a slave or a shipwrecked mariner.

Magnus: Knowledge - Magnus inherits the Emperor's desire to know more, to expand the mind as much as possible.

Horus: Logic - Horus represented the judicious use of force, the knowledge of exactly what needs to go where and it what magnitude to gain a result. Different to Guilliman's Organisation, an Analytical mind concerns itself with judging particular sets of circumstances in turn rather than preparing for any number of eventualities.

Lorgar: Faith - Again, Ironic, but Lorgar does seem to inherit the ability to believe, in the wrong thing perhaps, but the Emperor believed as devoutly in the ability of the Human Race as Lorgar did in the Emperor's divinity.

Vulkan: Humanity - Vulkan represents the core of the Emperor's motives, concern for the common person and a desire to do good. Different from Russ's general passion in the righteousness of a cause, Vulkan's humanity is more concerned with the will to do right by each individual in each circumstance he encounters.

Corax - Subtlety - Corax represents the ability to influence events by the most subtle of actions and the utility of observation and surgical action to create results.

Alpharius/Omegon: Manipulation - Alpharius and Omegon represent the genius of thought, the ability to find change conditions too bring about a certain end. Different to Perturabo's inventiveness or Corax's Subtlety, Alpharius/Omegon's Innovation is more in relation to the manipulation of facts and circumstances and peoples characteristics rather than the use of physical actions or problem-solving to gain a desired outcome.

I probably went overboard, but I always find this topic interesting.

I'll pay that.
+1 to you Good Sir, well reasoned.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 amazingturtles wrote:
Serious question: is there a connection between corax and norse mythology? Odin's ravens, and all that?

That was my thought too, it's why I looked Ravens up as heraldry.
According to the page I was looking at the Vikings didn't use Heraldry to tell a story like France, England, Germany - they just like cool pictures. Not sure if there's truth in that but that's their belief.

I think the Norse believed that ravens were messengers (or some other servant) of one of the Gods and were considered an ill omen - painting on shields would mean the enemy would see the raven, and the sign of ill omen for them.

icn1982 wrote:I'll pay that.
+1 to you Good Sir, well reasoned.

*Doffs top hat* My thanks, Sir.

icn1982 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 amazingturtles wrote:
Serious question: is there a connection between corax and norse mythology? Odin's ravens, and all that?

That was my thought too, it's why I looked Ravens up as heraldry.
According to the page I was looking at the Vikings didn't use Heraldry to tell a story like France, England, Germany - they just like cool pictures. Not sure if there's truth in that but that's their belief.

I think the Norse believed that ravens were messengers (or some other servant) of one of the Gods and were considered an ill omen - painting on shields would mean the enemy would see the raven, and the sign of ill omen for them.

Huginn and Muninn - They weren't so much messengers as the eyes and ears of Woden Allfather. Woden had sacrificed one of his eyes to drink from the Well of Mimisbrunnr to gain the wisdom it's water contained. As such, the Ravens then served to bring him information from all across the land, so that he could see and hear all. The sighting of a raven, or better yet two, was considered a good omen - that Woden was watching from afar. For their enemies, it mattered not. If the enemy was Norse, they would assume Woden was watching them (Unless, I suppose, the Raven blatantly showed some sort of preference, such as alighting near one particular army - you get the picture), if they were Christian, then it was just superstitious pagan nonsense.

Odin's Ravens were spies as well, acting as his eyes and ears in the world. Probably ties into the Raven Guard quite nicely there too.

A half-formed thought has just occurred to me. There appears to be some level of duality between the loyalist and traitorous primarchs. Perhaps they were always intended to be paired.

Russ/Angron - The attack dogs of the Emperor. Both with an ingrained sense of responsibility for those they deem their brothers (Russ with the Armageddon Guard units, Angron with his gladiators)

Sanguinius/Magnus - both powerful mutant psykers

Dorn/Perturabo - stoicism and strength

Guilliman/Lorgar - both world-builders, one on faith the other on reason

Someone else might be able to pair them up better than I, if they've read the HH novels...