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Hey guys as most of you probably already now know, the rules for everyone's new favorite Archmagos are now up. You can see them here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/5na3um/triumvirate_of_the_imperium_rules/ As I was looking at it I realized that with a few dunecrawlers killing all the threats that other things would pose, wouldn't a squad of Vangaurd all with Plasma Calivers hooked up with Belisarius be quite the Deathstar? Tell me what you guys think about his potential...

Sure that is a good possibility, you could also run him with some FW secutarii peltasts, put Cawl on front and enjoy a re-rollable 2+ save against anything not AP2.
Still I personally think that Cawl fits the best in Holy Requisitioner formation. No need for him to walk towards the enemy line then, he can just deep strike on a nearby objective without scatter and start his onslaught from there.

Cawl in a Cohort Cybernetica is pretty beastly too.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Cawl in a Cohort Cybernetica is pretty beastly too.

True, but with the robots not being the fastest, it might take a while for Cawl to actually fight. Otherwise he just acts like a buff machine.

 Arlen wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Cawl in a Cohort Cybernetica is pretty beastly too.

True, but with the robots not being the fastest, it might take a while for Cawl to actually fight. Otherwise he just acts like a buff machine.

Realistically, the reason I like Cawl in a Cohort?

Datasmiths can take Relics.

A very good point.

 xofox wrote:
Hey guys as most of you probably already now know, the rules for everyone's new favorite Archmagos are now up. You can see them here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/5na3um/triumvirate_of_the_imperium_rules/ As I was looking at it I realized that with a few dunecrawlers killing all the threats that other things would pose, wouldn't a squad of Vangaurd all with Plasma Calivers hooked up with Belisarius be quite the Deathstar? Tell me what you guys think about his potential...

Will the calivers bring his Toughness down so make it easier to put a lot of damage on him. Even if he does have the evil amount of saves and rerollable FnP

 rawne2510 wrote:

 xofox wrote:
Hey guys as most of you probably already now know, the rules for everyone's new favorite Archmagos are now up. You can see them here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/5na3um/triumvirate_of_the_imperium_rules/ As I was looking at it I realized that with a few dunecrawlers killing all the threats that other things would pose, wouldn't a squad of Vangaurd all with Plasma Calivers hooked up with Belisarius be quite the Deathstar? Tell me what you guys think about his potential...

Will the calivers bring his Toughness down so make it easier to put a lot of damage on him. Even if he does have the evil amount of saves and rerollable FnP

Another reason to bring him in a Cohort Cybernetica...

You're looking at 12 Wounds at T7(Kastelans), 4 Wounds at T4(Datasmiths), 5 Wounds at T6(Cawl).
And that's at minimum.

Wow...
You are right... The cohort cybernetica would be freaking unkillable (almost). Wouldn't he work well in a war convocation? While it is a pretty dang expensive formation I think it could still work. Do you guys think that He would have anything to add to that?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Arlen wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Cawl in a Cohort Cybernetica is pretty beastly too.

True, but with the robots not being the fastest, it might take a while for Cawl to actually fight. Otherwise he just acts like a buff machine.

Realistically, the reason I like Cawl in a Cohort?

Datasmiths can take Relics.

Ya this helps a lot, tho the datasmiths cannot take the It Will Not Die relic, but Cawl can probably repair them even better?

We'll need to see all of Cawl's rules to decide when he's worth the 95 points over the Dominus (often but not always?)

 axisofentropy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Arlen wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Cawl in a Cohort Cybernetica is pretty beastly too.

True, but with the robots not being the fastest, it might take a while for Cawl to actually fight. Otherwise he just acts like a buff machine.

Realistically, the reason I like Cawl in a Cohort?

Datasmiths can take Relics.

Ya this helps a lot, tho the datasmiths cannot take the It Will Not Die relic, but Cawl can probably repair them even better?

We'll need to see all of Cawl's rules to decide when he's worth the 95 points over the Dominus (often but not always?)

Cawl can do IWND as well, but once per turn.

The Datasmiths can take some reaaally nice Relics though.

It is how ever quite a lot of points, in quite a slow formation. Sure the robots got some tasty weapon options and the unit is incredibly tough, but you are looking at +/- 800 points here without all the upgrades and those tasty relics.
I really would have to try this formation before I go further on the speculation thou. I wonder how well it does against my friends Genestealer Cult.

 Arlen wrote:
Sure that is a good possibility, you could also run him with some FW secutarii peltasts, put Cawl on front and enjoy a re-rollable 2+ save against anything not AP2.
Still I personally think that Cawl fits the best in Holy Requisitioner formation. No need for him to walk towards the enemy line then, he can just deep strike on a nearby objective without scatter and start his onslaught from there.

I've been thinking of adding this formation to Tau lists, allied in, because Cawl is such an immense distraction for so few points, but I feel like the Breachers here mostly end up being a tax. Without enough Cult/Skitarii units to ensure the best Canticle buffs, they're just going to die out in the open the turn after they arrive. Breachers are just so... meh... that here it feels like a tax.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Arlen wrote:
Sure that is a good possibility, you could also run him with some FW secutarii peltasts, put Cawl on front and enjoy a re-rollable 2+ save against anything not AP2.
Still I personally think that Cawl fits the best in Holy Requisitioner formation. No need for him to walk towards the enemy line then, he can just deep strike on a nearby objective without scatter and start his onslaught from there.

I've been thinking of adding this formation to Tau lists, allied in, because Cawl is such an immense distraction for so few points, but I feel like the Breachers here mostly end up being a tax. Without enough Cult/Skitarii units to ensure the best Canticle buffs, they're just going to die out in the open the turn after they arrive. Breachers are just so... meh... that here it feels like a tax.

While having Cawl as fast as possible near Tau is quite good, breachers are really bad against Tau since their lists consist of MC most of the time. This formation is probably best used against IG, IK, Admech and armies that use a lot of vehicles like transports, such as Orks, DE, Necrons and the occasional Eldar player.
Also this formation is quite cheap and can provide your army with the backdrop it might need. I personally love to use them in combination with Destroyers. Use haywire to breakdown any enemy transport, then proceed killing any unit stepping out of its wreck with Grav or Plasma cannons.

No no... I meant use this formation WITH Tau. :-p

I frequently borrow the Necron Canoptek Harvest as a Tau player, because 400-ish points will give you an incredibly quick, HIGHLY distracting unit for opponents to contend with. The Holy Requisition could work very, very similarly for 500pts even, and would arguably have much more offensive punch against many opponents.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
No no... I meant use this formation WITH Tau. :-p

I frequently borrow the Necron Canoptek Harvest as a Tau player, because 400-ish points will give you an incredibly quick, HIGHLY distracting unit for opponents to contend with. The Holy Requisition could work very, very similarly for 500pts even, and would arguably have much more offensive punch against many opponents.

Ooooohw, seems like I read your post wrong. Yeah, this formation could really add that distracting punch to your army. Allowing you to kick your opponents list in its groin with your Tau

Yeah, i'm going to give it a go soon. In a serious, top-tier competitive meta, having Cawl with Kastellans would make an impenetrable death-star, but one that never sees combat against a skilled player, but I think Holy Req with Cawl might be a surprise item to ally into odd lists, which will catch people off-guard, and must be addressed.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Yeah, i'm going to give it a go soon. In a serious, top-tier competitive meta, having Cawl with Kastellans would make an impenetrable death-star, but one that never sees combat against a skilled player, but I think Holy Req with Cawl might be a surprise item to ally into odd lists, which will catch people off-guard, and must be addressed.

A deathstar is not a deathstar if its not fast enough to get within threat range.

My solution is to bring a Libby conclave with Tiggy and roll on fulmination to get magnetokinesis or electrodisplacement. With those 2 powers you can easily be in front of the enemy and with electrodisplacement you can also charge (NOVA format).

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Yeah, i'm going to give it a go soon. In a serious, top-tier competitive meta, having Cawl with Kastellans would make an impenetrable death-star, but one that never sees combat against a skilled player, but I think Holy Req with Cawl might be a surprise item to ally into odd lists, which will catch people off-guard, and must be addressed.

A deathstar is not a deathstar if its not fast enough to get within threat range.

My solution is to bring a Libby conclave with Tiggy and roll on fulmination to get magnetokinesis or electrodisplacement. With those 2 powers you can easily be in front of the enemy and with electrodisplacement you can also charge (NOVA format).

Yeah, but now you're in that realm of 900-1000pt Deathstars that are so, so very one-dimensional in function. I love my Pylonstar, but even stripped to the bare minimum of functionality, its 900pts... That's too much of a list to sink into anything and stay competitive against a wide array of lists.

I think, as I said, the only "cheap" way to ally in Cawl in a meaningful way, might legitimately be the Holy Req.

I think there is a certain flexibility that either Cybernetica Cohort or Vanguard Skitarii can work as a escort for Cawl... you're likely to have both in your army anyways... so it's easy enough to shuffle him from one unit to the other if you end up needing speed over survivability.

Imho Cawl isn't quite deathstar material, he's a good basic infantry bully that laughs at most vehicles and gives 2 very strong canticles.

Although War Convo Dominus with an Autopurger and a unit of Vanguard with a Pater with electromancy canticle up is a total blob breaker though. Could always just bring Cawl in through a holy requisitioner.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Yeah, i'm going to give it a go soon. In a serious, top-tier competitive meta, having Cawl with Kastellans would make an impenetrable death-star, but one that never sees combat against a skilled player, but I think Holy Req with Cawl might be a surprise item to ally into odd lists, which will catch people off-guard, and must be addressed.

A deathstar is not a deathstar if its not fast enough to get within threat range.

My solution is to bring a Libby conclave with Tiggy and roll on fulmination to get magnetokinesis or electrodisplacement. With those 2 powers you can easily be in front of the enemy and with electrodisplacement you can also charge (NOVA format).

Yeah, but now you're in that realm of 900-1000pt Deathstars that are so, so very one-dimensional in function. I love my Pylonstar, but even stripped to the bare minimum of functionality, its 900pts... That's too much of a list to sink into anything and stay competitive against a wide array of lists.

I think, as I said, the only "cheap" way to ally in Cawl in a meaningful way, might legitimately be the Holy Req.

Tiggy + 2 barebone libbys (or one with jump pack) with axes are only 295-310

In a War convo. If you want to use magneto, stick the conclave and Cawl in a unit of Gravphrons, pop the shrouding canticle, shunk 18" into a ruin and then cast prescience and shriek and shoot up whatever. If you get invis or shrouding, you can keep much of your army a live. The libby conclave is not really just for death stars its a force multiplier, whether to add mobility, defense or offense to a already strong army.

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Yeah, i'm going to give it a go soon. In a serious, top-tier competitive meta, having Cawl with Kastellans would make an impenetrable death-star, but one that never sees combat against a skilled player, but I think Holy Req with Cawl might be a surprise item to ally into odd lists, which will catch people off-guard, and must be addressed.

A deathstar is not a deathstar if its not fast enough to get within threat range.

The Kastalans dont need to be toting power fists. I have mine with all guns. 36" range makes for a pretty big threat bubble even if you choose the double shooting mode.

 Exergy wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Yeah, i'm going to give it a go soon. In a serious, top-tier competitive meta, having Cawl with Kastellans would make an impenetrable death-star, but one that never sees combat against a skilled player, but I think Holy Req with Cawl might be a surprise item to ally into odd lists, which will catch people off-guard, and must be addressed.

A deathstar is not a deathstar if its not fast enough to get within threat range.

The Kastalans dont need to be toting power fists. I have mine with all guns. 36" range makes for a pretty big threat bubble even if you choose the double shooting mode.

That's fair, and it is a way I have run Kastalan's in the past... but that is an expensive unit to just get a decent amount of S6, immobile shooting. Mechanicus can better use those points elsewhere. When in doubt... more Grav-Phrons. :-p

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Yeah, i'm going to give it a go soon. In a serious, top-tier competitive meta, having Cawl with Kastellans would make an impenetrable death-star, but one that never sees combat against a skilled player, but I think Holy Req with Cawl might be a surprise item to ally into odd lists, which will catch people off-guard, and must be addressed.

A deathstar is not a deathstar if its not fast enough to get within threat range.

The Kastalans dont need to be toting power fists. I have mine with all guns. 36" range makes for a pretty big threat bubble even if you choose the double shooting mode.

That's fair, and it is a way I have run Kastalan's in the past... but that is an expensive unit to just get a decent amount of S6, immobile shooting. Mechanicus can better use those points elsewhere. When in doubt... more Grav-Phrons. :-p

Yeah it's not the best. You get a huge number of Str6 AP3 shots on a very durable platform,
butttt...
It's not really that many str6 shots for the points.
It's durable against most things, grav makes a mockery of it like everything.
It's AP3 and doesnt ignore cover so some things dont care(the datasmiths have AP2 pistols though)

It's very rock paper scissorish. Some things it can slaughter without taking much damage in return, other things....

Yeah stick with Gravphrons.

Against other deathstars, you have Tiggy roll on biomancy to get endurance, then stick them and Cawl in a unit of Ruststalkers to tank and popping the 4++ canticle.

Or roll on telepathy for invis, and cast it on the IK to deal with deathstars hoping maybe you can stump some of them out.

with a mixture of Cult Mech and Skitarii one can get several very nasty mini-stars with a tanking character. I run 3 x 10 vanguards and more often then not, Cawl, a techpriest dominus and my enginseer are attached to them, scouting upfield and using shroudpsalm to keep the guys healthy. The one unit with the enginseer works best with an alpha that uses a conversion field and omnissiahs grace. Pretty costly though.

 Arlen wrote:
It is how ever quite a lot of points, in quite a slow formation. Sure the robots got some tasty weapon options and the unit is incredibly tough, but you are looking at +/- 800 points here without all the upgrades and those tasty relics.
I really would have to try this formation before I go further on the speculation thou. I wonder how well it does against my friends Genestealer Cult.

You want Dakkabots for Genestealers. I made mine with all Incendine Cumbustors because TORRENT FLAMERS on MCs with Split Fire is pretty beastly. Adding those TL Phosphor Blasters that mow down MEQs as well as provide fringe benefits against cover saves. Footslogging Genestealers basically HAVE to get a thick tarpit to stop that formation.