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Quick question here. Full disclaimer... I don't have the book yet.

Assumptions:
1. My understanding is that Cawl has the HQ Battlefield Role.
2. My understanding is that Cawl has the Cult Mechanicus Faction.
3. My understanding is that the Combined Arms Detachment has a restriction stating that all models in the Detachment must have the same Faction (or no Faction).
4. My understanding is that Cawl can be taken as an HQ choice for any of the Armies of the Imperium.

Questions:
1. Can Belisarius Cawl be taken as the HQ in an Adeptus Mechanicus Skitarii Combined Arms Detachment?
2. If so, how are we getting around the same Faction restriction?
3. Should I be interpreting Assumption #4 above as Cawl taking on the Faction of the army he's selected for? In other words, is there a Space Marines Cawl, a Blood Angels Cawl, a Skitarii Cawl, a Legion of the Damned Cawl, etc, etc?

The first 3 are all correct. The 4rth one is a little off. It is not that he can just be taken as an HQ in any detachment. The rules specifically call out the CAD and Allied detachment in the rules. I believe this is an exception to the normal rules, and that he simply retains his original faction.

 coblen wrote:
The first 3 are all correct. The 4rth one is a little off. It is not that he can just be taken as an HQ in any detachment. The rules specifically call out the CAD and Allied detachment in the rules. I believe this is an exception to the normal rules, and that he simply retains his original faction.

Would it be possible to quote the rule? My book and Cawl are on order and I'd love to be able to put a list together ahead of time.

 Kriswall wrote:

 coblen wrote:
The first 3 are all correct. The 4rth one is a little off. It is not that he can just be taken as an HQ in any detachment. The rules specifically call out the CAD and Allied detachment in the rules. I believe this is an exception to the normal rules, and that he simply retains his original faction.

Would it be possible to quote the rule? My book and Cawl are on order and I'd love to be able to put a list together ahead of time.

I'm away from my book right now, but when I get home in about 6 hours I can get it.

 coblen wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

 coblen wrote:
The first 3 are all correct. The 4rth one is a little off. It is not that he can just be taken as an HQ in any detachment. The rules specifically call out the CAD and Allied detachment in the rules. I believe this is an exception to the normal rules, and that he simply retains his original faction.

Would it be possible to quote the rule? My book and Cawl are on order and I'd love to be able to put a list together ahead of time.

I'm away from my book right now, but when I get home in about 6 hours I can get it.

Thanks. I really appreciate it.

"...But each of them can also be included as an HQ choice in any CAD or AD comprised of an Armies of the Imperium Faction, regardless of the individual character;s actual faction"

Cawl can also replace a TPD in any formation, and Greyfax any inquisitor.

 Iron_Warden wrote:
"...But each of them can also be included as an HQ choice in any CAD or AD comprised of an Armies of the Imperium Faction, regardless of the individual character;s actual faction"

Cawl can also replace a TPD in any formation, and Greyfax any inquisitor.

Ok, so there is a specific permission to allow Belisarius Cawl in a non-Cult Mechanicus Combined Arms or Allied Detachment, despite the normal restriction. Understood. He would still retain the Cult Mechanicus Faction? In other words, despite being in the same CAD, he'd effectively be Battle Brothers with the other units in his Detachment? As an example, he couldn't start the game in a Transport? I just want to confirm that I could take him in, say, a Space Marines Faction Combined Arms Detachment, but that he would have to deploy on foot as normal, with no option to start in a Transport.

It seems that way. poor Cawl....

More like bad GW for not thinking through their FAQ ruling, rather poor Cawl. The upside is that Skitarii can now use a CAD or AD.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
More like bad GW for not thinking through their FAQ ruling, rather poor Cawl. The upside is that Skitarii can now use a CAD or AD.

SJ

Being able to take a Skitarii CAD/AD is what interested me the most. I've been working on an army consisting of a rogue Magos who incorporates xenos archeotech into his forces. He calls them his Skitau'rii. It's a combination of Tau Empire, Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus. Lots of conversions! Garbage on the battlefield as I'm not taking any of the competitive choices, but boy does it all look pretty together.

I'm less concerned about the lack of Transport thing. One simply does not insult the sacred sands of Mars by choosing a base Transport when walking is an option.

If he is the HQ in your CAD or Allied Detachment why couldn't you have him start in a transport?

 Marmatag wrote:
If he is the HQ in your CAD or Allied Detachment why couldn't you have him start in a transport?

Because battle brothers can't deploy in each other's transports

 Marmatag wrote:
If he is the HQ in your CAD or Allied Detachment why couldn't you have him start in a transport?

Because he is still Faction: Cult Mechanicus, and only Faction: Space Marines can start is Faction: Space Marine transports.

Can't wait to embark in those fancy Cult Mechanicus transports ... when they finally come out!

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Can't wait to embark in those fancy Cult Mechanicus transports ... when they finally come out!

SJ

I'm not holding my breath. There are two 30k Mechanicum transports that 40k AdMech can't access.

 Kriswall wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Can't wait to embark in those fancy Cult Mechanicus transports ... when they finally come out!

SJ

I'm not holding my breath. There are two 30k Mechanicum transports that 40k AdMech can't access.

Rumor has it there are 40k plastics in the pipeline for 30k units usable in 40k. Excellent opportunity to fleece more cash from us with a new book to support the new models.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Can't wait to embark in those fancy Cult Mechanicus transports ... when they finally come out!

SJ

I'm not holding my breath. There are two 30k Mechanicum transports that 40k AdMech can't access.

Rumor has it there are 40k plastics in the pipeline for 30k units usable in 40k. Excellent opportunity to fleece more cash from us with a new book to support the new models.

SJ

I had not heard this. If true, it's exciting news for my AdMech army. Currently, the only 30k transports don't appear to be usable in 40k for AdMech Cult Mechanicus/Skitarii. We'd presumably need a rules change or new units. I wouldn't mind buying Forgeworld resin, but I need rules letting me use the units in 40k.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Can't wait to embark in those fancy Cult Mechanicus transports ... when they finally come out!

SJ

Come on Termites, Moles, and Hellborers!

Maybe...

DoW

I have a quick follow-up questions about mr. Cawl.

So apparently you can take him instead of the regular Tech Priest Dominus in Cult Mech formations, but how about the Start Collecting Skitarii formation?

Can he legally replace the Tech Priest from the Dominus Maniple?

Blakman wrote:
I have a quick follow-up questions about mr. Cawl.

So apparently you can take him instead of the regular Tech Priest Dominus in Cult Mech formations, but how about the Start Collecting Skitarii formation?

Can he legally replace the Tech Priest from the Dominus Maniple?

I think that's technically a Skitarii Formation. If he has explicit permission to replace the Tech Priest Dominus from a Cult Mechanicus Formation, then he wouldn't have permission to replace a Tech Priest Dominus in a Skitarii Formation.

 Kriswall wrote:

Blakman wrote:
I have a quick follow-up questions about mr. Cawl.

So apparently you can take him instead of the regular Tech Priest Dominus in Cult Mech formations, but how about the Start Collecting Skitarii formation?

Can he legally replace the Tech Priest from the Dominus Maniple?

I think that's technically a Skitarii Formation. If he has explicit permission to replace the Tech Priest Dominus from a Cult Mechanicus Formation, then he wouldn't have permission to replace a Tech Priest Dominus in a Skitarii Formation.

Looking at he datasheet, it doesn't seem that the dominos maniple has an inherent faction. It would probably be considered both a cult and skitarii formation in the same way a unit wig multiple factions counts as all of them. I highly doubt you'd be restricted from switching them out. The start collecting box is even listed in the cult section of the website.

 Dramagod2 wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

Blakman wrote:
I have a quick follow-up questions about mr. Cawl.

So apparently you can take him instead of the regular Tech Priest Dominus in Cult Mech formations, but how about the Start Collecting Skitarii formation?

Can he legally replace the Tech Priest from the Dominus Maniple?

I think that's technically a Skitarii Formation. If he has explicit permission to replace the Tech Priest Dominus from a Cult Mechanicus Formation, then he wouldn't have permission to replace a Tech Priest Dominus in a Skitarii Formation.

Looking at he datasheet, it doesn't seem that the dominos maniple has an inherent faction. It would probably be considered both a cult and skitarii formation in the same way a unit wig multiple factions counts as all of them. I highly doubt you'd be restricted from switching them out. The start collecting box is even listed in the cult section of the website.

You both make good points, I'll try it out with some of my regular opponents and should an faq show up at some point and disallow it, well...

it's easier to get forgiveness than permission, right...

Blakman wrote:


it's easier to get forgiveness than permission, right...

BLAM

Looking at the actual Dominus Maniple Formation, there is no Formation logo at all. Per the rules, this means it is neither a Skitarii nor a Cult Mechanicus Formation. It's simply a Formation that contains several units from two Factions. I don't think the rules support swapping in Cawl.

Regarding Cawl as HQ in a space marine CAD (I play IH so quoting from IH in AoD):

Any Detachment with the Space Marine Faction can be an IH Detachment if all units in the Detachment with the Chapter Tactics special rule are drawn from the IH. An IH Detachment retains the Space Marine Faction and is treated in all ways as a Space Marine Detachment.

He is part of the detachment (yes). Cawl doesn't have chapter tactics (yes). Does this mean he becomes a Space Marine Faction? Can't he then start in a transport? Does he get The Flesh is Weak, Machine Empathy (rhinos get it with no CT), Scions of Forge etc...

No
Thevdetachment retains the faction. Doesn't mean he gans it.

 Kenny P wrote:
Regarding Cawl as HQ in a space marine CAD (I play IH so quoting from IH in AoD):

Any Detachment with the Space Marine Faction can be an IH Detachment if all units in the Detachment with the Chapter Tactics special rule are drawn from the IH. An IH Detachment retains the Space Marine Faction and is treated in all ways as a Space Marine Detachment.

He is part of the detachment (yes). Cawl doesn't have chapter tactics (yes). Does this mean he becomes a Space Marine Faction? Can't he then start in a transport? Does he get The Flesh is Weak, Machine Empathy (rhinos get it with no CT), Scions of Forge etc...

No, he wouldn't want to be a puny space marine. He stays faction Cult Mechanicus and won't get anything that requires chapter tactics or faction space marines.

Interestingly, the same agreement that denies Cawl IH rules was used to grant Cerestus Knights IH rules when taken in the LoW slot. Per the Cerestus Knight rules, they may be taken as LoW in Imperium of Man armies, just as Cawl can be taken as an HQ in Imperium of Man CADs and ADs. The consensus for the Knights is that indeed they would gain the non-CT benefits as they would be legal units in that detachment.

So why is Cawl different?

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Interestingly, the same agreement that denies Cawl IH rules was used to grant Cerestus Knights IH rules when taken in the LoW slot. Per the Cerestus Knight rules, they may be taken as LoW in Imperium of Man armies, just as Cawl can be taken as an HQ in Imperium of Man CADs and ADs. The consensus for the Knights is that indeed they would gain the non-CT benefits as they would be legal units in that detachment.

So why is Cawl different?

SJ

Not disagreeing with you, but what faction is Cerastus Knight? What faction was it when the rules first came out?

It's because Cawl specifies that he retains the Cult Mechanicus faction, while the Cerastus do not.