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Depends on a lot of things. If Ghost Arks can carry non-Warriors again? Lychguard will be amazing. If you can charge out of Night Scythes? Ditto.

Too early to tell anything. Just trying to be patient and not lose my mind.

From the community update about weapon profiles-

The rules team behind the new game have taken the opportunity to rebalance a lot of the weapons in the game, and with the new armour modifier system and removal of the cap of 10 on Strength values, we’ve made sure that every weapon has its use on the battlefields of the 41st Millennium. D weapons, for example, are gone, and instead there is a scalable Strength and damage that matches the effectiveness you’d expect from every weapon.

Oh man, if they changed the choose-target-then-roll-for-powers for C'tan, I cannot WAIT to see how they turn out with these changes!

 skoffs wrote:

 Klowny wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Praetorians finally get to shine!
(I'm sure Wraiths will be fine, too)

And sytheguard! Finally have an excuse to run them!

Issue with those guys is, they'll probably still be pretty slow.
With no way to get them up the table AND charge in the same turn, they're almost always going to be receiving.

You are very true. Hmm, hopefully GA's are more receptive to non-warrior models riding in them, or you can charge from disembarking from a night scythe.

I just love the look of the scytheguard

 skoffs wrote:
From the community update about weapon profiles-

The rules team behind the new game have taken the opportunity to rebalance a lot of the weapons in the game, and with the new armour modifier system and removal of the cap of 10 on Strength values, we’ve made sure that every weapon has its use on the battlefields of the 41st Millennium. D weapons, for example, are gone, and instead there is a scalable Strength and damage that matches the effectiveness you’d expect from every weapon.

Oh man, if they changed the choose-target-then-roll-for-powers for C'tan, I cannot WAIT to see how they turn out with these changes!

I feel like C'tan will be wildly different, but I know I may still be disappointed :(

I want to run Necrons that are light on bots but heavy on Monsters, Vehicles, and Canoptek units. Would be so much fun!

Requizen wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
From the community update about weapon profiles-

I want to run Necrons that are light on bots but heavy on Monsters, Vehicles, and Canoptek units. Would be so much fun!

That's funny, I'm exact opposite. Give me all the angry toasters of death and leave the canoptek matrix units behind

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/26/warhammer-40000-weapons/

Looks like flamers get a huge boost in effectiveness.

This means Orks, Sisters, and Salamanders reap huge benefits while Necrons fare poorly in this regard.

For Necrons, flamers are hard to come by. But, I always liked throwing one on to a Bargelord.

Bargelords keep looking better and better.

Units that can run multiple flamers benefit from this but I feel single flamer units/models lose out? Well, flaming a full squad they do, against single models/ units >6 models they are more effective. So it hurts us doubly so as the only way to have multiple flamers is in a royal court/Death Star. I suppose they will be mandatory in stuff like that now.

col_impact wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/26/warhammer-40000-weapons/

Looks like flamers get a huge boost in effectiveness.

This means Orks, Sisters, and Salamanders reap huge benefits while Necrons fare poorly in this regard.

For Necrons, flamers are hard to come by. But, I always liked throwing one on to a Bargelord.

Bargelords keep looking better and better.

We actually benefit a lot for regular Lords and then Stalkers wanting to not shoot Melta.

How will warscythes work now? Armourbane is null and void, will they be doing d6 wounds @ -3 save or something comparable?

Also, can see the doom scythe potentially making a huge comeback? Now that blast templates and armourbane are gone, its going to put out a TON of wounds.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/26/warhammer-40000-weapons/

Looks like flamers get a huge boost in effectiveness.

This means Orks, Sisters, and Salamanders reap huge benefits while Necrons fare poorly in this regard.

For Necrons, flamers are hard to come by. But, I always liked throwing one on to a Bargelord.

Bargelords keep looking better and better.

We actually benefit a lot for regular Lords and then Stalkers wanting to not shoot Melta.

Lords and Stalkers are much pricier platforms for a flamer than a burna boy.

I am half hoping that Orks come out on top for Newhammer. Long live our new Ork overlords.

 Klowny wrote:
How will warscythes work now? Armourbane is null and void, will they be doing d6 wounds @ -3 save or something comparable?

Also, can see the doom scythe potentially making a huge comeback? Now that blast templates and armourbane are gone, its going to put out a TON of wounds.

I'm thinking Warscythes will be wither d3 or 3 damage, doubled against Vehicle keyword. Rend -2 or better for sure.

The removal of blast is such a blessing for Doomsday Arks and Doom Scythes. Can't wait to put them back on the table!

It's looking like AP2 has become -3, if the Lascannon is anything to go by.
It might be safe to assume that would mean AP3 is going to be -2 and AP1 will be a very rare -4 (rare for man-carried weapons, anyway).
So if that's the case and AP4 = -1, will Immortals be worth taking over Warriors? (assuming Gauss Flayers will have a 0 armor modifier, like bolters). Because if so, yeah, might have to consider changing my Ghost Arks out for Doomsday Arks (unless Lychguard get to ride in them, fingers crossed)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oop, looks like the new one is up.
This time, movement-

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/27/new-warhammer-40000-movement/

... so if everyone gets hit-and-run, now, what will Wraith's main role be?

I'm going to make a suggestion that is incredibly hard to actually follow (even for me).

Using the old rules PLUS the prior meta to assess the new rules using a hypothetical meta is the number one way to run into misassessments.

I'm not suggesting not to do it that way; it's fun to imagine old units with old rules in updated rule sets! But be onuard for false assumptions.

As an example, referring to skoffs's query about the role of Wraiths, consider the following:

Given they are revising all units in the game, is it reasonable to assume that Wraiths will be identical to their prior template in the re-hash? For example, Wraith whips in 6th forced them into striking first against anything in base to base, whichw as then revised to a simple 5-setting initiative. I'm not certain anyone totally predicted that they would therefore change roles from "killy" (remember Wraiths + Scythes was the go-to army?) to "tarpit" at first--even though many flagged that the new Harvest formation would make them more durable.

This change in role probably wasn't intentional by GW, especially given how moderately innocuous that wargear change was.

...so therefore, if (big "if!") the GW design intent for Wraiths is to be killy, with an option for striking first in most circumstance (or all, as in 6th) it's probably safe to assume that they will absolutely not be designed around the idea that they simply tarpit, and therefore it is a reasonable conclusion that (a) they will probably not be able to avoid folks retreating from them, and (b) that may not mean they're rubbish.

I suggest this same logic is useful for consideration elsewhere as well! Don't assume armourbane is going away nor that it will be useless; likely it will morph into a keyword triggered ability versus vehicles that may possibly be irrelevant versus infantry.

Finally, I would suggest it is unlikely in my view that Ghost Arks will be able to carry non-warrior units: likely because as modeled the vehicle appears to only have room for warriors. That's probably what drove the 7th ed. change.

True, it COULD be a full codex redo, but it will be more than likely that a bunch of entries will be practically the same.
In that eventuality it doesn't hurt to theorize... so long as you are aware it could be a complete upending of the codex.
(Shrodenger's Necrons: both exactly the same and completely different until you open the new book).

 skoffs wrote:

(Shrodenger's Necrons: both exactly the same and completely different until you open the new book).

 skoffs wrote:
True, it COULD be a full codex redo, but it will be more than likely that a bunch of entries will be practically the same.
In that eventuality it doesn't hurt to theorize... so long as you are aware it could be a complete upending of the codex.
(Shrodenger's Necrons: both exactly the same and completely different until you open the new book).

Yea!

 skoffs wrote:
Interesting to see the Sautekh dynasty getting some significant prominence on the galactic map. Wonder if that's any indicator of whether we'll have more of a role in the main narrative this time instead of being relegated to background threat (Trazyn making an appearance in Gathering Storm has my hopes up).

A man can dream. When he got announced, I was hoping either some Necron rules or a plastic Trazyn kit.

Snippet from today's announcement:

"Every faction will have its own psychic lore with a range of thematic powers"

EVERY faction? Crons getting psykers?

Worrying that our only mention on the Warzones page of the site is in the Baal sector as a side-party to Blood Angels. While the new narrative is supposed to be more focused on Imperium vs Chaos, I just hope we don't get brushed under the rug.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dew wrote:
Snippet from today's announcement:

"Every faction will have its own psychic lore with a range of thematic powers"

EVERY faction? Crons getting psykers?

I hope C'tan powers work the same. In the Psychic Phase, use their powers as if they were Psykers but can't be denied.

Nevermind, looks like it was already addressed on Facebook...

Lol. That's funny, right there.

While I've been in the 'Wraiths are useless' boat for sometime now, I can't help but notice their further uselessness with the release of each of these teasers. Of course this is all subject to them in their current state, but we're speculating right?

- Weapons are going to do multiple Wounds. So using AT weapons on Wraiths is going to be a bit less risky, since failing that 3i save will probably wipe out models.
- The removal of a Strength Cap is going to increase the instances of Instant Death. While it's true that we haven't seen if Instant Death is going to remain in the game with the Multiple Wound Weapons, it's a shuddering thought to process that Lascannon going from D6 Wounds to D6 Instant Death Wounds. This is great news for Lascannons, or other single shot high strength weapons if casualty removal works like AoS does, since having these weapons will still do more than fry 1 guy in a horde army.
- Charging first strikes first has already been discussed, but what happens in Ongoing combats? We haven't gotten that info (unless I missed it). Comparing to AoS, we could have multiple units swinging against the Wraiths before they swing, which will be rough if we get a Battleshock mechanic.
- With no more Tarpits, any unit simply becomes an irritation to deal with rather than an actual problem. They've announced they're doing something to stop Deathstars, but for an army that wants to avoid CC until they can handle it, Wraiths may not be the best option. Even if they do get into CC, your opponent can now just leave combat, and bring in a heavier hitting unit, and will most likely go first. Junk Units now become a frustration for Wraiths. (** Fun idea, Maybe Whip Coils would prevent any unit from retreating?)
- With Psychic Powers now confirming that Mortal Wounds will be introduced, all armies will have a way to reduce the unit and bypass their resilience.
- Movement rules are still the same-ish, but combo'd with the ability to retreat from CC, their foot print is one of the smallest we have available. It might not be enough to offset their Movement Value.

Still not anything to worry about, and I'm liking everything I'm seeing so far. Just couldn't help but notice since other armies are also feeling like their fanboy unit is also being personally attacked.

Casualty Removal is the big one that I want to know. Maelstrom Missions are a close second, as I really don't want it to go away.

Dew wrote:
Snippet from today's announcement:

"Every faction will have its own psychic lore with a range of thematic powers"

EVERY faction? Crons getting psykers?

I think they clarified later that Necrons, tau and Dark Eldar will not get psykers, as normal.
Woops, ninja'd
Hope they buff gloom prisms. 3" range is worthless.

 Akar wrote:
While I've been in the 'Wraiths are useless' boat for sometime now, I can't help but notice their further uselessness with the release of each of these teasers. Of course this is all subject to them in their current state, but we're speculating right?

- Weapons are going to do multiple Wounds. So using AT weapons on Wraiths is going to be a bit less risky, since failing that 3i save will probably wipe out models.
- The removal of a Strength Cap is going to increase the instances of Instant Death. While it's true that we haven't seen if Instant Death is going to remain in the game with the Multiple Wound Weapons, it's a shuddering thought to process that Lascannon going from D6 Wounds to D6 Instant Death Wounds. This is great news for Lascannons, or other single shot high strength weapons if casualty removal works like AoS does, since having these weapons will still do more than fry 1 guy in a horde army.
- Charging first strikes first has already been discussed, but what happens in Ongoing combats? We haven't gotten that info (unless I missed it). Comparing to AoS, we could have multiple units swinging against the Wraiths before they swing, which will be rough if we get a Battleshock mechanic.
- With no more Tarpits, any unit simply becomes an irritation to deal with rather than an actual problem. They've announced they're doing something to stop Deathstars, but for an army that wants to avoid CC until they can handle it, Wraiths may not be the best option. Even if they do get into CC, your opponent can now just leave combat, and bring in a heavier hitting unit, and will most likely go first. Junk Units now become a frustration for Wraiths. (** Fun idea, Maybe Whip Coils would prevent any unit from retreating?)
- With Psychic Powers now confirming that Mortal Wounds will be introduced, all armies will have a way to reduce the unit and bypass their resilience.
- Movement rules are still the same-ish, but combo'd with the ability to retreat from CC, their foot print is one of the smallest we have available. It might not be enough to offset their Movement Value.

Still not anything to worry about, and I'm liking everything I'm seeing so far. Just couldn't help but notice since other armies are also feeling like their fanboy unit is also being personally attacked.

Casualty Removal is the big one that I want to know. Maelstrom Missions are a close second, as I really don't want it to go away.

And you're probably literally the only person in that boat about Wraiths so what's your point?

The reworked psychic phase looks a lot better, less time stuffing about by the sounds of it.

Also, since running is now done in the movement phase, maybe the whole 'I do a psychic shooting, then turbo boost out of harms way in my shooting phase' thing that chaos psykers used to love to do is gone the way of the dodo.

Dew wrote:

Whoever is running their social media accounts needs a raise.
They are doing a great deal to heal the hurt that the old management inflicted on the user base with years of cold neglect.

 Klowny wrote:
Also, since running is now done in the movement phase, maybe the whole 'I do a psychic shooting, then turbo boost out of harms way in my shooting phase' thing that chaos psykers used to love to do is gone the way of the dodo.

Any ideas on Destroyers and the Jump-Shoot-Jump since moving and running is done in the same phase/before shooting?

 Nightfish wrote:

 Klowny wrote:
Also, since running is now done in the movement phase, maybe the whole 'I do a psychic shooting, then turbo boost out of harms way in my shooting phase' thing that chaos psykers used to love to do is gone the way of the dodo.

Any ideas on Destroyers and the Jump-Shoot-Jump since moving and running is done in the same phase/before shooting?

I expect that whole rule will be gone. Indeed, I'm not sure why they had different rules for Jump versus Jet Pack Infantry from a development perspective.

One is for assault, one is for shooting. Two variations for two different roles.
I would like destroyers to go back to being jetbikes. Call me a traditionalist, but they always felt more natural like that.

I don't think unit types like jump pack infantry, jetpack infantry, jet bike, are going to be a thing. Instead, they will have a movement value and the ability to ignore terrain while moving, and take dangerous terrain test if they end in terrain. Some might get extra movement when running to represent turbo boosting. I think tomb blades will be our fastest unit, followed by wraiths, followed by destroyers, with scarabs in there somewhere. I'm not sure on vehicles because a lot of the rules around barges seems to be punishment on awesome they were before our 7th ed codex. I'd guess barges are the fastest, followed by the arks, followed by our "When scenery attacks" units like the monolith and obelisk.

Another interesting question is how they will do quantum shielding or if they will even continue it. If I ran the zoo, I'd give our QS vehicles good armor saves (2+) at high wounds and mediocre armor saves (4+) as we progress down the wound chart to represent the shields failing as more damage is taken.

I'm also expecting us to be a slow army, at least for our infantry, like 4" inches slow. It's fluffy and will give us plenty of opportunities to be tough.

My final questions for the new edition is what happens to Gauss and Reanimation. Gauss will need to change since everything can wound on a six. I hope we end up with the Gauss rule from SW:A, which is rerolling failed to wounds. Reanimation is much trickier to guess, most likely it won't be a secondary save like it is now, so it probably goes back to being an end of the round thing. Beyond that, I can't even hazard a guess.