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 Xyxel wrote:
Cryptek will be imo useless as You have small units of infantry. Killing 5 Immortals in one turn won't be difficult so no Reanimation Protocols for them.

You bring up a good point, so should i use the cryptek points to make another unit of 10 immortals and up the other 5 man squad to 6? Or would you have a better recommendation?

Having a 2000 point match against a Nid's player, anyone got tactical advice against them in 8th? I have yet to face them and i'm sure he will spare no mercy. I was thinking probably mass tesla and deceiver bomb with either 2 squads of tesla immortals and an overlord for MWBD to alpha strike an important or large mob down. Backed up with a TA and Tomb stalker to threaten other CC problems and a Triarch stalker with twin guass for those rerolls of 1. Any ideas for what unit's work best against nids?

I don't think you'll need/want to get in his face with Deceiver bomb.

Bubble wrapping is key for swarms.

Volume of fire will be useful.

Fly units will be handy.

Tesla immortals or annihilation barges will be big for horde control, while destroyers can cause havoc with monsters. Praetorians are another option for monster hunting. I think DDarks will cause problems for most units in their army also. Targeting synapse is going to be important because it makes them immune to morale. Their psykers will be big problems, dishing out mortal wounds

Meant to mention this before but forgot, but seeing the discussion last page on C'Tan reminded me. There was some discussion much earlier in the thread on the C'Tan power Times Arrow and whether it could snipe out characters due to it not being a shooting attack - it cant.

If you look at page 179 of the rulebook under the characters heading "A character can only be chosen as a target in the shooting phase if they are the closest visible enemy unit to the model that is shooting".

The stipulation is on attacks made in the shooting phase, not that they are a shooting attack. Of which Times Arrow is definitely the former.

cheesedupree wrote:
Meant to mention this before but forgot, but seeing the discussion last page on C'Tan reminded me. There was some discussion much earlier in the thread on the C'Tan power Times Arrow and whether it could snipe out characters due to it not being a shooting attack - it cant.

If you look at page 179 of the rulebook under the characters heading "A character can only be chosen as a target in the shooting phase if they are the closest visible enemy unit to the model that is shooting".

The stipulation is on attacks made in the shooting phase, not that they are a shooting attack. Of which Times Arrow is definitely the former.

What about the

... that is shooting

part? He isn't shooting after all

I can see that you could focus on that part instead - but the first part of that sentence seems way more prevalent. If you are attacking in the shooting phase then you are in some manner of speaking "shooting". So that last bit can be read either way. Cannot target characters with attacks made in shooting phase (unless blah blah) is very clear language imo.

wombis wrote:
Having a 2000 point match against a Nid's player, anyone got tactical advice against them in 8th? I have yet to face them and i'm sure he will spare no mercy. I was thinking probably mass tesla and deceiver bomb with either 2 squads of tesla immortals and an overlord for MWBD to alpha strike an important or large mob down. Backed up with a TA and Tomb stalker to threaten other CC problems and a Triarch stalker with twin guass for those rerolls of 1. Any ideas for what unit's work best against nids?

I tabled nids with QS spam.

Tesseract vault, monolith, anni barge, DDA, stalker, spyder, 2x3 scarabs, tesseract ark and heat cannon sentry pylon. Lost 3 scarabs. He had two flyrants, 100 odd guants, 3x lictors and death leaped, OOE, 2x carnifex, trygpn prime and the other tunnelling one and 3 zoanthroaps.

 Klowny wrote:

wombis wrote:
Having a 2000 point match against a Nid's player, anyone got tactical advice against them in 8th? I have yet to face them and i'm sure he will spare no mercy. I was thinking probably mass tesla and deceiver bomb with either 2 squads of tesla immortals and an overlord for MWBD to alpha strike an important or large mob down. Backed up with a TA and Tomb stalker to threaten other CC problems and a Triarch stalker with twin guass for those rerolls of 1. Any ideas for what unit's work best against nids?

I tabled nids with QS spam.

Tesseract vault, monolith, anni barge, DDA, stalker, spyder, 2x3 scarabs, tesseract ark and heat cannon sentry pylon. Lost 3 scarabs. He had two flyrants, 100 odd guants, 3x lictors and death leaped, OOE, 2x carnifex, trygpn prime and the other tunnelling one and 3 zoanthroaps.

What HQ were you running?

Toholk. I misinterpreted his regen ability, camped very back corner of table behind DDA and screened by scarabs. Baited a trygon prime (or whatever one does the mortal wounds on arrival) and deathleaper to DS near, and subsequently got tied up/blown up. His overwatch killed deathleaper.

He didn't have anywhere near enough high damage weapons to deal with everything. Nids don't seem to have much outside biovores, everything else is in CC, and our guns are strong enough to blow up multiple big bugs a turn

cheesedupree wrote:
If you are attacking in the shooting phase then you are in some manner of speaking "shooting".

False. Abilities that happen during the shooting phase are not automatically "shooting attacks".
Are you rolling to hit or wound?
No, it's just an ability that goes off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blueguy203 wrote:

 Xyxel wrote:
Cryptek will be imo useless as You have small units of infantry. Killing 5 Immortals in one turn won't be difficult so no Reanimation Protocols for them.

You bring up a good point, so should i use the cryptek points to make another unit of 10 immortals and up the other 5 man squad to 6? Or would you have a better recommendation?

If you are making a Battalion you need a minimum two HQ.
You may be able to get away with fitting everything into one of the smaller detachments, but you'll lose out on Command Points.

Also, if you have those 5 man squads going after objectives they should really have Tesla.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Klowny wrote:
I tabled nids with QS spam.

Tesseract vault, monolith, anni barge, DDA, stalker, spyder, 2x3 scarabs, tesseract ark and heat cannon sentry pylon.

Heh, I don't know if I'd call that QS "spam". There's only four things there with QS.

You are picking the part of the rule that best benefits your army. Look at the rule objectively - the rule starts by saying you cannot targets characters with attacks that happen in the shooting phase. Which times arrow absolutely is.

Also look at the game. Abilities that can circumvent that rule explicitly state so. The faqs have had examples where people have tried to "interpret" their way around that rule and have been ruled against. It's clear that TA is not meant to snipe characters.

You're not targeting a character with a shooting attack. You're picking a unit in range. Characters are units. There is nothing vague or inconclusive about this.

How about somebody quote both rules?

Characters are units of 1 yes. When you select a unit to target, that's when the character keyword is prevalent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In any case, rather than getting into it further in here I'll put up a post in the rules question forum. Keep this place for actual Necron discussion.

So I added a list to the Army list section.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/731533.page#9471529

Spearhead supremacy consisting only of Vehicles and 2 monsters.

I will try this out as soon as I have time to play and if anyone in my gaming group wants to play against it
Will have to proxy 2 Tomb Stalkers and one Tesseract Ark or at least one Tomb Stalker since I'm probably going to order one of each today.

As a fairly new Necron player, I have a question regarding the subject:

Doomsday Ark vs. Destroyers (incl. HDestroyers)

I would like to ask which one was the better option to buy.

- Do they fullfill the same role in an army? (preferably shooting vehicles and big things)

- Which one gives you more bang for your points?

In DDAs vs HDs, I believe for equal points it came down to DDAs for survivability but HDs won out for putting out better damage (against vehicles/big things).
Though it's worth restating that HDs can easily get cover, giving them a 2+. The problem is they're obvious bait for multi damage weapons (which would ironically be somewhat wasted on DDAs, because of QS).

JohnnyRotten wrote:
As a fairly new Necron player, I have a question regarding the subject:

Doomsday Ark vs. Destroyers (incl. HDestroyers)

I would like to ask which one was the better option to buy.

- Do they fullfill the same role in an army? (preferably shooting vehicles and big things)

- Which one gives you more bang for your points?

As a fairly new player too, I would love a second Chart in the first post listing the roles for units.

- Anti-Infantry
- Anti-Vehicle
- Anti-Horde
- Screener
- Objective-Grabber / Holder
- CC
- ...

Of course some units would have multiple entries, but maybe different ratings as that role.
It would be really great if we could go there into more details, for example which weapon of the Triarch Stalker is best for which purpose.

nEcrol0rd wrote:

JohnnyRotten wrote:
As a fairly new Necron player, I have a question regarding the subject:

Doomsday Ark vs. Destroyers (incl. HDestroyers)

I would like to ask which one was the better option to buy.

- Do they fullfill the same role in an army? (preferably shooting vehicles and big things)

- Which one gives you more bang for your points?

As a fairly new player too, I would love a second Chart in the first post listing the roles for units.

- Anti-Infantry
- Anti-Vehicle
- Anti-Horde
- Screener
- Objective-Grabber / Holder
- CC
- ...

Of course some units would have multiple entries, but maybe different ratings as that role.
It would be really great if we could go there into more details, for example which weapon of the Triarch Stalker is best for which purpose.

We could probably work that out for new players, but it's going to need community input (just like the report card).

In analyzing the below linked article, it seems to suggest a critical weakness in QS against a potential major (and inexpensive) player in the shaping meta.

Further, doing the math as described, it would be just as effective against our Silver Tide style lists posted so far.

Thoughts?

https://www.warhammer-tactics.com/single-post/2017/07/03/How-much-wood-could-a-wood-chuck-chuck-if-wood-chuck-was-a-Stormraven

sieGermans wrote:
Thoughts?

If you see someone put down Girlyman and a bunch of Stormravens, just pack your stuff back up.
There's no point in even trying to play against a list that broken.

 skoffs wrote:
In DDAs vs HDs, I believe for equal points it came down to DDAs for survivability but HDs won out for putting out better damage (against vehicles/big things).
Though it's worth restating that HDs can easily get cover, giving them a 2+. The problem is they're obvious bait for multi damage weapons (which would ironically be somewhat wasted on DDAs, because of QS).

Do you mathammer this or its just your wishes?
DDA have better firepower if you include his arrays. Especialy for 12" range. Against evrything. Even if he move and can shoot only low power with dc.

sieGermans wrote:
In analyzing the below linked article, it seems to suggest a critical weakness in QS against a potential major (and inexpensive) player in the shaping meta.

Further, doing the math as described, it would be just as effective against our Silver Tide style lists posted so far.

Thoughts?

https://www.warhammer-tactics.com/single-post/2017/07/03/How-much-wood-could-a-wood-chuck-chuck-if-wood-chuck-was-a-Stormraven

Our best lists against flyer spam will involve a Gauss pylon, and lots of two plus wound infantry. Gauss pylon is pretty obvious because it eats flyers for breakfast, but the two wound infantry might need a little more elaboration. Storm ravens have two types of weapons, las cannons/meltas and heavy bolters/assault cannons, none of which work well against prats or destroyers. Destroyers can have a hidden heavy Gauss so I think they are the best choice. I'll put together that list a bit later.

 skoffs wrote:

sieGermans wrote:
Thoughts?

If you see someone put down Girlyman and a bunch of Stormravens, just pack your stuff back up.
There's no point in even trying to play against a list that broken.

Yup our supposed race speciality of beeing hard to kill is a joke to that kind of Dakka.

Seeing these kind of lists top the last few bashes makes me a little angry with the play testers (Frontline and such) they have been harping that spam is just a phase, that balanced lists are the way to go.... well any 'balanced' list will get tabled by this kind of spam without question.

 Grimgold wrote:
Storm ravens have two types of weapons, las cannons/meltas and heavy bolters/assault cannons, none of which work well against prats or destroyers.

Why wouldn't those work well against Praets and Destroyers, etc?

Also, did you mean Gauss Sentry Pylons or LoW Gauss Pylons?

Problem with Low Guss Pylons it that d6 for number of shots, but you probably can count to kill one per round. How many of them are in the spam list? Can they destroy pylon in one shooting phase?

If opponent starts the game, you put pylon in reserves, so you have at least one round of shooting.

 Pepe96 wrote:
If opponent starts the game, you put pylon in reserves, so you have at least one round of shooting.

Okay, but what do you deploy to ensure you don't get tabled turn one?
(or is this still part of the "Don't even bother setting up against lists like this" tactic?)

By the way, given the answers so far, this thread may be of interest to you:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/731474.page

How are people running their Tomb Blades? I just picked up two boxes and can't wait to get them on the table. It seems like you want the armour save and cover ignoring upgrades, but which way to go with weapons? Do people ever run a unit with a mix of both weapons?