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2017/12/15 16:25:55
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
On the subject of new Necron players has there been any confirmed info about a new codex besides the "not much in Chapter Approved - hope for one in Jan/Feb". I know GW is a lot tighter on rumours now and I don't recall a news post by them about releases coming in the new year relating to new codex orders and the like.
And googling just throws up a complicated mess of prior results for new codex and codex wishlists.
Overread wrote: On the subject of new Necron players has there been any confirmed info about a new codex besides the "not much in Chapter Approved - hope for one in Jan/Feb". I know GW is a lot tighter on rumours now and I don't recall a news post by them about releases coming in the new year relating to new codex orders and the like.
And googling just throws up a complicated mess of prior results for new codex and codex wishlists.
There's no "real" news but the fact that Tau and Necrons got nothing in CA feels pretty telling. The other armies that got no points are Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Daemons - who are all confirmed to be getting Codices or have already received them.
Unless GW thought Necrons and Tau are perfectly balanced as is, but they've taken feedback on literally every other army so that feels unlikely.
2017/12/15 16:53:42
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Dak - The relic is only 1x use so if I kept DL back to port Toholk later he wouldn't be around to buff the Destroyer screen for the CCB. That and T's low movement then slows the whole formation down to accomodate him. Granted once in range/position that's another story.
Art - If you're keeping them stationary you can give them a cryptek for enhanced rp (since coming back puts you at full wounds that makes bring them back very valuable) and some invul saves just in case you get hit by 3 or higher AP weaponry so at least you have some chance of save. Heck if it's a big enough building you could do 2 squads of 3 this way if you really wanted to.
Cth - Neat to know, I only started them I think 7th ed (maybe 6th?) so I don’t know much about their older editions.
Correct it would be a full squad purchase.
Main reason I could see still running some on foot is we've got decent porting capabilities, plus point cost would probably make it that if we got rid of our mobility weakness then we'd probably have far less then our normal model count of walking units.
Yeah I like the idea of more weapon options. But yeah if destroyer bodies were available for all types then you could do this by simply augmenting the correct support unit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/15 17:04:58
I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.
If only so I could begin the pardonné waghh.
2017/12/15 17:03:57
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
My wife will start with necrons. We're both new so i can't help her.
Whats a good start for 500-1000 Points? She bought a Start Collecting and now we think about what could be good. Can you give us a tipp? A must have or something?
Greetings an Thanks
more scarabs if you can get them
Automatically Appended Next Post: And your wife got into Necrons? Hold on to that woman!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/15 17:40:39
2017/12/15 18:05:12
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
With the new rules feedback email, what do you guys think about setting up a collaboratory and structured feedback Memorandum emailed in PDF format and gathering poll results for each highlighted issue or query?
Something like:
(Results based on data collected from Dakka Dakka participants)
Issue 1: Stuff happens in game
Based on poll data, this happens X times per Y number of games for Z% of the poll participants.
This was identified to be worth reviewing by H% of poll participants.
N# solutions were suggested following discussion and breakdown of popularity was as follows: N1: S%, N2: F%, etc.
Highlighted discussion points included the following...
What do you think?
2017/12/15 18:39:17
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I'm not sure. I suspect priority of issues may come down to quantity of feedbacks rather than quality. 100 individuals voicing the same concern in their own words might appear more important than a fancy civil letter claiming to represent those 100
Automatically Appended Next Post: Necron players voting favorably on necron improvemens I don't think will impress anyone, try to keep the polls on problems occuring perhaps, as you describe.
Eg 90% players report loosing all their heavy destroyers in turn 1 or 2, causing them to stop using them.
100% of necron players stopped using tolb world deployment because of the high risk of loosing the unit etc
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/15 18:44:26
2017/12/15 22:15:24
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
My wife will start with necrons. We're both new so i can't help her.
Whats a good start for 500-1000 Points? She bought a Start Collecting and now we think about what could be good. Can you give us a tipp? A must have or something?
Greetings an Thanks
more scarabs if you can get them
Automatically Appended Next Post: And your wife got into Necrons? Hold on to that woman!
Thank you, i'll try it
Btw: This scrabs she can only get in the start collecting? Maybe she should get 2 of them,
2017/12/15 22:20:19
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Scarabs are sold with the Necron Warriors. So in the getting started box and in the necron warrior box as well.
A second getting started box isn't a bad idea as each one gives you a free Necron Lord (compared to buying all the individual models outside of the getting started kit).
The getting started kit is also likely to change when the new codex comes out at some point next year (all the other factions have had a new getting started kit released).
That said she likely won't need more than two getting started boxed sets. Whilst the warriors are always good you don't need a legion of lords; meanwhile the stalker appears to currently be present in very smal numbers in many collections
At least according to the results in this thread https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/746349.page *
* I oft find collection threads interesting because whilst they have no tactical basis, they do give a rough idea what is and isn't popular and what kind of counts people have.
As far as I remember, Eldar and Tyranids were the only armies with existing Start Collecting kits that received a new ones with their codex update. Am I forgetting some?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/15 22:43:11
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress 2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
2017/12/16 02:51:07
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I'm saying the fluff behind it is that my Tomb World is only just waking up so mostly just the Canoptek units are defending against whoever has unfortunately uncovered their Tomb, while the Lord and some warriors have woken up to see what's up
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/16 02:51:58
2017/12/16 20:50:39
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
epaemil wrote: You should work on the fluff, atleast the Lord/warriors part
Haha yeah that's true.
The Lord wants to exact revenge on a certain Ultramarine sergeant. In a game of Black Crusade (converted to loyalists) the setting was a warp storm over a planet (which was a world belonging to the Overlord's Dynisty, who he was trying to wake up) and, long story short, the lord in his ship crashed due to the storm and his repairings were slowed right down due to the storm being funky. The group found him on the bridge and while he gave them a run for their money, the barely alive Ultramarine sergeant finished him off with a melta bomb that also imploded the ship (they ended up in the equivalent of an engine room). So after regenerating within this Tomb World (can they do that?), he's taking the warriors who've woken up the most, along with a group of Canoptek units, to face them again and bumped into the group of reinforcements.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/12/17 00:48:17
2017/12/17 11:10:57
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Troops:
10x immortals /w Tesla
15x warriors
15x warriors
Elites:
C'tan shard of the Nightbringer
10 Lychguard /w sword&shield
Triach Stalker
Fast Attack:
3x Scarabs
3x Scarabs
Heavy Support:
Doomsday Ark
Eldar list: Ilic Nightspear (the sniper character)
Farseer
2x Warlock
Dark Reaper character
3x 5 dire avengers
3x5 rangers
8x Wraithguard with D-scythes
7x Dark Reapers
2x Fire Prisms
1x Wave Serpent
I finished deploying first and got first turn. However, since the eldar can deploy his Rangers (and has placed his Wraithguard in the Webway) It was difficult for me to deploy my army properly.
I hid my C'tan all the way in the back since that had the only LoS blocking terrain in my deployment. I was too scared of all those Rangers + Illic sniping him in one turn.
Necrons, turn 1:
Warriors and immortals moved up, claiming a total of three objective markers and being in range of well, at least SOMETHING! it felt like a good start.
Szeras, with a CP re-roll, upgraded a Warrior squad to BS 2+, sweet.
I decided to keep the Overlord + Lychguard in the back
and in anticipation of the deepstriking Wraithguard. Same for the C'tan, still way too many snipers at large and no targets for him in sight.
Combined fire of Warriors + the Stalker killed about 6 rangers over two squads. The DDA whiffed after rolling a 1 on the D3, even with a CP re-roll.
Eldar turn 1:
The Dark Reapers jumped out of the Wave Serpent and placed themselves on the middle objective, along with a Warlock and the Farseer. Everything else pretty much stayed where it was.
With massive Psychic buffs, the Dark Reaper's opened fire on the Stalker, taking it down to four wounds. Their 3 damage meant Quantum Shielding didn't stop much.
But that was nóthing compared to what the Fire Prisms did. With a strategem that gave them reroll to hit AND to wound, they left the DDA at a measly 2 wounds. Again, the high quantity D3 damage shots really countered the Quantum Shielding.
After dumping it's cargo, the Wave Serpent thought it was a good idea to fly towards my Immortals and decides to tie them into combat. Yeey.
With no characters in sight, the Rangers fired on a Warrior squad, killing 8. Luckily I passed morale on them.
Necrons turn 2:
A glorious Reanimation roll brought back ALL 8 WARRIORS! HUZZAH!
With important tactical objectives drawn for the middle objective marker, all the Warriors, the Immortals and the C'tan marched towards it. The Scarabs stayed behind to control objectives and as anti-deepstrike.
I decided I had to go full on the offense if I wanted to score out a win, so I Veiled the Lychguard as close to the middle objective as possible.
Szeras upgraded another Warrior squad to BS 2+ (needed a CP-reroll again though). Combined for killed a Dire Avenger squad and a couple more rangers. Most impressive was the C'tan's Gaze of Death. With a 6 on the shots roll, he killed 4! Dark Reapers. That should compensate for failing his Anti-Matter meteor.
The Immortals were unfortunately locked in combat with the Wave Serpent. Since falling them back meant they would just get shot up and then locked in combat again, I decided to keep them locked to the Wave Serpent.
And then came the most important charge phase. For the Lychguard, I rolled a.... ONE AND TWO! FFFUUUUUU.....
Eldar, turn 2:
As expected, the Lychguard were now officially boned. The Wraithguard deep-struck close to them, got Quickened to get in flamer-range etc. However, it took my opponent áll his firepower to kill the Lychguard and the Overlord there.
Necrons turn 3:
A last desperate push towards was made towards the middle objective.
With not many targets left in range, one warrior squad advanced and another one moved up to try and charge the middle objective.
Immortals were still locked in combat with the bloody Wave Serpent.
Luckily, my opponent underestimated Living Metal, which meant my DDA and Stalker were a little better at shooting again. They still completely failed to do any damage though.
The C'tan tried his luck on the Wraithguard this time. He ágain failed his Meteor and did killed only one Wraithguard with his Gaze.
More sporadic fire killed some Dire avengers and rangers, nothing special.
And with double failed charge of both the Warriors to get on the objective and the C'tan into the Wraithguard, I shook my opponents hand. Major defeat for the Necrons...
Post match analysis: + Szeras + the warriors were the star of the show for me. Even with one Warrior squad not having any targets at turn 3, they still did a lot of work, even against -2 to hit rangers. Granted, the 8 Warriors returning in one Reanimation roll might make me a bit biased here.
Though I feel like 15 Warriors might be worth trying again. It has enough firepower to be relevant, yet won't be seen as threatening as 20 Warriors might.
Speaking of Szeras, I think he may be the best buffer to go with a lot of Warriors. While he doesn't have the 5++ aura, Warriors won't often get targeted by high AP weapons. On top of his upgrades, his hand-held Brightlance can provide some much-needed anti-tank.
Scarabs might be worth another go too. Their low cost makes them great for anti-deepstrike and as objective-holders.
- I was quite dissapointed by the Stalker. Not because he got shot to bits in one turn, but simple because I couldn't get him to work. His anti-tank is too short to handle enemy armour and his re-roll 1's to hit forced him to shoot at a sub-optimal target.
Not too sure what to think of the C'tan shard of the Nightbringer. While he had a REAL potential to do damage, the large amount of enemy snipers forced him to be very careful. Not to mention him failing his Meteor, twice. Maybe if there was more LoS blocking terrain could he have been more effective.
I definitely need a better method of getting the Lychguard in close combat. Even with MWBD and a command re-roll at hand, it is too big of a roll to fail.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/17 23:15:11
2017/12/17 22:09:06
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I guess that sums up the missery that Necrons are in at the moment. We rely heavily on an few key features to go off (LG charge, getting Nightbringer into play, DDA killing things), if they don't it'll be an all uphill struggle, at best
2017/12/17 23:55:01
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I was thinking of trying this list. Using the Veil of Shadows, Zhandrekh/Oberyn and a C'tan Shard of the Deceiver it should be possible to place the entire army close to the enemy.
It does rely quite heavily on you getting first turn though....
Battalion detachment, 1800 points:
Spoiler:
HQ: Nemesor Zhandrekh
Vargard Obyron
Cryptek /w Veil of Shadows
Elites: C'tan shard of the Nightbringer
C'tan shard of the deceiver
10x Lychguard /w sword and shield
The idea of this list is the following:
1: Place everything as far away as possible and if needed out of sight. Be sure that the Cryptek is close to Zhandrekh. Also make sure Zhandrekh himself is close to the Lychguard.
2: Place the shard of the Deceiver, along with the two Warriors squads (assuming you saved a re-roll for the D3, which should pretty much always give you a 2) on a vulnerable enemy flank. If you rolled a 3 on the D3, bring the Nightbringer along.
3: At the end of your moment phase, use Veil to bring the Cryptek and Zhandrekh 9" away from the enemy.
4: Have Obyron bring the Lychguard in, who are now 4" away from the enemy.
5: Let the fun begin!
Nooooww as I mentioned it does rely heavily on you getting first turn. If you don't, you can't teleport the Warriors + Deceiver, which pretty much throws the whole plan in the water.
I'd also love to replace the Cryptek with Szeras, but he can't take the Veil. And bringing another character is both too expensive and will cost a CP, since he'd have to go in a Auxillary detachment.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/18 08:41:22
2017/12/18 03:43:51
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
They take up half the page and are usually irrelevant to the discussion.
(and yes, I'm aware this thread is on its last legs and we'll be able to start a new one once the codex is out (hopefully soon), but I mean, come on! There's a completely separate section of the forum for them already, they shouldn't constantly be getting posted in the tactics thread. Last thing we need once the new thread is up and people are trying to figure out how to play new Necrons is for them to have to scroll through page after page of random lists being posted trying to look for the bits of real tactics discussion scattered and hidden in between)
2017/12/18 09:15:31
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
They take up half the page and are usually irrelevant to the discussion.
(and yes, I'm aware this thread is on its last legs and we'll be able to start a new one once the codex is out (hopefully soon), but I mean, come on! There's a completely separate section of the forum for them already, they shouldn't constantly be getting posted in the tactics thread. Last thing we need once the new thread is up and people are trying to figure out how to play new Necrons is for them to have to scroll through page after page of random lists being posted trying to look for the bits of real tactics discussion scattered and hidden in between)
I’ve been an offender of this. I agree, skoffs. Sorry guys!
I tested Wraiths in a game this weekend using the new RP stratagem. Super resilient!
2017/12/18 13:41:13
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
They take up half the page and are usually irrelevant to the discussion.
(and yes, I'm aware this thread is on its last legs and we'll be able to start a new one once the codex is out (hopefully soon), but I mean, come on! There's a completely separate section of the forum for them already, they shouldn't constantly be getting posted in the tactics thread. Last thing we need once the new thread is up and people are trying to figure out how to play new Necrons is for them to have to scroll through page after page of random lists being posted trying to look for the bits of real tactics discussion scattered and hidden in between)
I’ve been an offender of this. I agree, skoffs. Sorry guys!
I tested Wraiths in a game this weekend using the new RP stratagem. Super resilient!
Mathematically its quite.....bad. If you spent 2CP to give RP for the whole game, yep good, but most of the time you are getting 1 wraith back...
I understand this doesn't sound as impressive, but when you figure into how stupidly resiliant wraiths are, and the potential to get 2-3 back is huge. And the best thing to spend CP on atm. But thats not saying much.
But i dont think 1 wraith is worth 2CP, which is the most likely outcome
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/18 13:42:00
12,000
2017/12/18 13:57:14
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Klowny wrote: i dont think 1 wraith is worth 2CP, which is the most likely outcome
I'm assuming it will be too late to let them know for the codex (that it needs to be changed to be properly useful), too.
Looking at the currently released codexes, how many more strategems should we be expecting once ours arrives?
Because if the ones in C.A are anything to go by, looks like I'll be sticking to the generic reroll and morale auto-pass ones...
2017/12/18 14:12:39
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Klowny wrote: i dont think 1 wraith is worth 2CP, which is the most likely outcome
I think it is.
Remember this is a game winning wraith, its not the 38pt wraith in the army in your deployment zone. Its the wraith that locks down Mortarion for one more turn, or the wraith that makes the unit survive to charge the AM back line, or its the wraith that lets the unit daisy chane to the objective to score that VP that wins you the game. Definitely worth 2CP.
2CP to make a blob of warriors pass moral in second turn, 5" from your deployment zone, is likely not game winning.
Klowny wrote: i dont think 1 wraith is worth 2CP, which is the most likely outcome
I'm assuming it will be too late to let them know for the codex (that it needs to be changed to be properly useful), too.
Looking at the currently released codexes, how many more strategems should we be expecting once ours arrives?
Because if the ones in C.A are anything to go by, looks like I'll be sticking to the generic reroll and morale auto-pass ones...
By the look of ADmech for example, I'm hoping for lots! They had what? 3-4 themed factions with apropriately flavored stratagems?
If we get 3 dynasties with strong flavored stratagems, Im likely going to be happy. And lowered point costs of course.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/18 14:14:05
2017/12/18 15:55:51
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I think with a few edits on some of our datasheets we could actually be an effective army in both resilience and offense.
While we can't deny or produce Pysker powers what about a buff that let us deny powers based on our number of units. E.G. Magus from GSC has an aura that let's him and any friendly unit within 6" to deny one pysker test per unit per phase. Something like that on a Cryptek buffing 2 Warriors/Immortals units and Overlord is 4 DTW rolls which is a lot more then what we can currently have.
Also, if they let the DDA damage rolls of 1 or 2 automatically become 3 then that would make the DDA about 40% more effective if all it's damage is always between 3-6 wounds. I probably get over the D3 shots if that was done.
Might read this as a "wish list" but I do think that if certain paragraphs were re-worded or if we could "adopt" other armies rulls into our own version then we would be a better well rounded army.
We chatted about it before, but it's fun to think about. So far the "main" dynasties are Sautekh (main one), Nihilakh (Trazyn's dynasty), and Mephrit (Shield of Baal dynasty). Maynarkh are the FW dynasty, so won't get rules in the Codex, much like Raptors, Charcharodons, and Minotaurs don't get Chapter Tactics. There are a couple others that have minor fluff and confirmed color schemes, like Thokt, Novokh, Charnovokh, and Nekthyst. Of those, Novokh and Charnovokh are called out by name in the new Rulebook.
So likely we'll see Sautekh, Nihilakh, Mephrit, Novokh, and Charnovokh, maybe 1 other but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just those 5.
Sautekh - largest dynasty, will likely get some generalist ability or one that encourages high numbers of Troops.
Mephrit - "Star-killers", known for really powerful C'tan and having powerful energy weapons. Likely good shooting ability, some Strat that encourages a C'tan. Last edition they had a Relic that made one C'tan +1 Toughness and Strength, so will likely get that again.
Nihilakh - Trazyn is rich and has lots of treasures. Maybe something like Salamanders, where you get rerolls for having better gear than other people.
Novokh - Known for being really violent and bloody, so probably an Assault buff. Maybe something special for Flayed Ones.
Carnovokh - Described as "clinging defiantly to the edges of the Eastern Fringe" and that their worlds are small and scattered, so this one will likely get a Morale buff like Iyanden (who can only lose at most one model from Morale).
Thokt has a named Geosculptor character, so if they get Dynasty abilities maybe some special Relic or Stratagem for Crypteks.
2017/12/18 16:42:30
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Do you think with the recent strategem hints that they'll alter spyders to perhaps serve as a canoptek units version of a Cryptek?
v *Weird Tangent on the topic* v
Spoiler:
Yeah sure crypteks technically say 'friendly dynasty necron unit RPs' so I guess they still serve that purpose if we can give canopteks an rp.
And yeah sure even if Spyders had a Chronometron wargear option that worked on Canopteks it wouldn't mean much if there's no way to boost their mobility to be at least equivalent to the Scarabs~ but I cant help wanting to have a Spyder that can match pace with scarabs and then give scarabs at least some kind of die roll rather then just 'ok how many wounds do I take~' feel I usually get when playing them.
But yeah I honestly think if played for high number of squads of both spyders and scrabs with high numbers the spyders mechanics to spawn more bases could work like an RP albeit atm a bit of a suicidal gamble if you've taken any damage considering no HP regen and limited wounds.
*imagines the chittering tide actually becoming a thing*
Sadly without the ability to fix the mobility issue the lack of saves and that the spyders would get targeted quickly once they figured out what was going on ~Sigh~
On a similar topic. Anyone else kind of Hoping for an Alpha Wraith or a Queen spyder type Character for those models? Or heck, maybe a stationary AI building?
-------
Yeah considering that as non pyschers without a bonus to the DTW check I'd be more down for taking gloom prisms if it maybe had a secondary effect.
ex: Fail to deny an offensive power but also in range of that power? The GP model becomes a magnet for it and suffers the negative effect (maybe at an enhanced effect).
Succed at denying a defensive power? Redirect that power to a necron unit if applicable (opponent can attempt to DTW against himself as the original caster?) target.
Or maybe have the GP's gain charges or something as they leech energy off of warp powers, less for failures and more for successful denials and those charges can be spent to do things.
1 charge = 1 reroll for a unit in X inches.
1 charge = A temporary buff in a phase/turn for a unit.
1 charge = +1 to DTW checks per charge spent up to the cap. However if you spend charges to deny then you get no charges if you fail and only 1 back if you succede instead of the normal value.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/18 17:25:50
I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.