Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The NL tactics grant stealth, Stormbolt plate increases cover by +1 and grants a 2+ save (for the same cost as PA on a DP) and Daemon of Tzeentch grants rerolls of 1.
Combined this gives a rerollable 2+ cover save or if ignores cover is used or if in assault, a rerollable 2+ armour save. Take ML 3, roll twice on Biomancy, with 3/5ths of a chance of getting WarpSpeed, IronArm or both (If not, then Endurance and Enfeeble can instead make him into a buff/nerf giver, whilst Life Leech will keep him alive - basically anything but Hemmorage). Then let loose.

The NL rule of stealth is quite nice for non Nurgle DP and will give that AoBF Khornate DP a better chance of reaching the opponent. Talons of the Night Terror appear to be a Daemon Weapon without the consequences of rolling a 1 (I'm still not anywhere near 100% sure that you'd apply smash to these attacks but nobody has said otherwise yet on YMDC but feel free to say otherwise), by granting D6 extra attacks (plus normal charge bonus), when charging and the cherry on the top of shred, a 'half' daemon weapon when not having charged by granting d3 attacks. All for 20pts. On a Khorne DP this would be very nice with the FC bonus.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and all the NL Warlord traits would be greatly beneficial to the aforementioned DP of Khorne, aside from 2 and 5.

That one person who still takes a Hammerhead is going to be laughing if you don't get Iron arm though. Same with a Vidicator squadron or any non killa-kan walker with a powerfist or equivalent.

Also, welcome to September 2015 where this was all discussed ad infintum.

NL rule increases cover by 1 and in combination with the new relics opens up new avenues for discussion. There are a ton of relics in Traitor Legions that discussion of just DPs with them has potential for a huge discussion that will be different to discussions pre-Traitor Legions. The rules for the other legions can also benefit DPs. Hatred from BL, FnP from DG, summoning on a 3+ WB, 4++ rerollable TS... all bring a lot more to the DP discussion that "September 2015" didn't have (conversations I was involved in, conversations that always reverted to - should you take a DP of Nurgle as a Daemon dex for 3 rolls on Biomancy and lose access to Black Mace or go for the 2 rolls with the mace... how dull compared to the wealth of options we can discuss now).

The vindi squadron will indeed be an issue, but takes just one tank to go down to revert to the non cover ignoring normal shots. Plus it's rarely fielded. More common and more of an issue will be a Typhon Heavy Seige Tank as that does not go down easy at all. The DP can always be reserved or in flight mode until these are dealt with though on the rare occasions you face them. Or if you know you are facing lots of st10 ignore cover weapons, just roll on different psychic tables and instead fly around shooting/shrieking/summoning.
With walkers there are very very few that can survive a charge from an AoBF DP to be able to hit back. As to the other two types I mentioned - the DP is much more mobile and can avoid walkers very easily.
Hammerhand has to be rolled for just like Iron Arm the chances of getting it on a lvl2 psyker is 1/3, the chances of not getting iron arm is 2/3, so the chances of facing an opponent with Hammerhand and not having Iron Arm is 2/9. So just avoid the unit the psyker is in.

Don't get me wrong - they are all counters to a DP with a 2+ rerollable armour and cover save as well some being counters to the others. But they are very rare to encounter. Also because something does have a counter doesn't mean it isn't a good unit. In fact I can't think of a unit that doesn't have counters... Even a Fatey buffed and invised screamer star is countered by MSU.

The problem with the NL DPoT is that...

1) It's counters aren't actually that rare. DPs don't only die to S10. They are only T5 with 4 wounds, they are pretty easy to kill if you bypass the 2+ armor and cover saves. 3 armies have very easy access to ignore cover ap2 (SM can take Hunter's Eye with White Scars, Tau have Marker Lights, and Eldar psyker spam can easily get Perfect Timing) and pretty much every deathstar has high Str ap2 attacks hiding in it. There is still a lot of things for the DP to worry about

2) When the DP is countered it is countered hard. The DP's counters out right kill it, not just reduce its effectiveness or weakness its impact on the game. It just gets removed. Screamer Star being countered by MSU just means that its not killing as many points as it would normally. The DP getting countered means you are basically playing without 300 points in your army.

I'm thinking of running a nurgle dp as my iron warriors hq. Artefact gets me a 2+ and IWND which is sound. Looks like biomancy is the best option then? Only option?

I'm still to get my head around the four new power tables. Ruling out stupid stuff like moving terrain, are there any worth rolling?
Is the new nurgle table worthwhile? One roll has to go on it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean, obviously you have wings, so can circle and provide spell support whilst dangerous stuff is near. There's not much ap2 ignores cover skyfire. And using non skyfire shots on my dp is probably preferable to shooting the rest of my army..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or is grav such a threat.. that dropping the 2+ and taking something more traditional like the burning brand is better.. Hmm

 CrownAxe wrote:
The problem with the NL DPoT is that...

1) It's counters aren't actually that rare. DPs don't only die to S10. They are only T5 with 4 wounds, they are pretty easy to kill if you bypass the 2+ armor and cover saves. 3 armies have very easy access to ignore cover ap2 (SM can take Hunter's Eye with White Scars, Tau have Marker Lights, and Eldar psyker spam can easily get Perfect Timing) and pretty much every deathstar has high Str ap2 attacks hiding in it. There is still a lot of things for the DP to worry about

2) When the DP is countered it is countered hard. The DP's counters out right kill it, not just reduce its effectiveness or weakness its impact on the game. It just gets removed. Screamer Star being countered by MSU just means that its not killing as many points as it would normally. The DP getting countered means you are basically playing without 300 points in your army.

Good point on the WS relic, had totally forgotten about that. Yeh Marker lights are always an issue to cover save reliers - as is perfect timing. But this DP has a 2+ too which is twice as effective against ap4 or more and six times as effective against ap3 - thats before taking into account the reroll. Many still effectively run a Nurgle DP who doesnt have the 2+.
So what would you consider better - a DG DP of Nurgle with a 3+/2+(cover)/5++/5+++ or this NL one with a 2+ rerollable against most things but not FnP? The FnP makes the Nurgle one tougher against ignores cover ap2 but is weaker against most of the other things. However the NL one has only a 5++ against ap2 ignores cover whilst the DG one has a 5++/5+++ so is noticably more resilient in that case.
The opponent will have to dedicate 11 st7+ bs4 ap2/1 ignores cover shots to kill the NL one whilst having to dedicate 16 against the DG DP. Whilst the DG one is more vulnerable to mass firepower and the NL one is almost immune to it.
I think I'd still probably go for the NL one but I can see why there would be suggestions for the other one.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
I'm thinking of running a nurgle dp as my iron warriors hq. Artefact gets me a 2+ and IWND which is sound. Looks like biomancy is the best option then? Only option?

I'm still to get my head around the four new power tables. Ruling out stupid stuff like moving terrain, are there any worth rolling?
Is the new nurgle table worthwhile? One roll has to go on it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean, obviously you have wings, so can circle and provide spell support whilst dangerous stuff is near. There's not much ap2 ignores cover skyfire. And using non skyfire shots on my dp is probably preferable to shooting the rest of my army..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or is grav such a threat.. that dropping the 2+ and taking something more traditional like the burning brand is better.. Hmm

I like the Ectomancy Discipline myself of the 4 new ones. Two GREAT movement powers, Infernal claws is excellent if engaging in assault, Daemon Shriek has a huge diameter and will be perfect against Gladius and squadrons or just large mech presence in general, Empyric shield is awesome for a DP whilst the Primaris is a nice 2 heavy bolter attack for 1WC. The only dud power is Coruscating blaze.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or you could fly around with Telepathy, Psychic Shrieking every one and casting buffs and nerfs if not going Biomancy.

Last option I can think of is probably the weakest. Roll once on Telepathy and change for Shriek. Roll once on Sinistrum/Heretech/Ectomancy (based on who you are playing) and swap for primaris. Roll once on Tzeentch looking for Doombolt/Breath of Chaos/Baleful Devolution/Treason of Tzeentch. Now fly around and shoot stuff safe in the air. If you get Treason and take Corrupt Machine (primaris of Heretch), you could make the opponent destroy himself in short order... Very Tzeentch ;-).