What are instances of Primarchs getting defeated in fair 1 v 1 fights by regular astartes/humans

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**LightKing**

the only two I can think of is Curze getting defeated by the Assassin M'shen

and The Lion losing to Luther

although both M'shen and Luther weren't astartes, they were both regular trained humans

is there any other scenario where a primarch lost a duel against a regular astarte or another human

(it doesn't necessary have to be instances where they killed the primarch, but defeated them in some fight)

**Slayer-Fan123**

Curze wasn't really defeated though as he kinda let himself die.

**Mudrat**

In the climax of Legion;

Spoiler:

.

Also, in the Reflection cracked, a bunch of the EC manage to (briefly) subdue Fulgrim.

Finally, I believe an Alpha legion squad also came close to successfully assassinating Guilliman once. Notable because none of them were really main characters.

**Sgt_Smudge**

Wasn't Guilliman unarmed and unarmoured and still beat them alone?

Luther is far more than a normal human - he was strong as any astartes.

Assassins like M'Shen are also far above even Astartes, not to mention Kurze let it happen.

**SeraphimXIX**

Never happened and it never will. There is no scenario in which a regular human or Marine could ever defeat a Primarch in a duel. It's kind of like asking for instances in which a toddler has defeated a grown man in a fight. The physiological differences are too vast.

**AnomanderRake**

SeraphimXIX wrote:
...There is no scenario in which a regular human or Marine could ever defeat a Primarch in a duel...

For this statement it depends on how creatively you interpret 'regular', and on how you interpret '1 v 1'. Is the 'regular human' allowed a Titan? Is he an alpha-plus psyker? How cybernetically rebuilt is he? What happens if you put him in a Dreadnaught? How much top-tier Mechanicum tech is allowed, and are you defining 'human' in a way that allows them to build a Primarch-killing robot? Where's the bar between 'human' and 'daemon' (ex. the fellow who stabbed Horus with the nemesis blade early in the Heresy books)? Where do Daemon Weapons sit?

**jhe90**

Good old rowboat was taken on by several alpha legion troops in full armour, probbly veterans too.

He won not clad in amour just using his muscle.

Iirc that was it.
Yeah alone vs multiple armoured enemies.

**Dakka Wolf**

AnomanderRake wrote:
SeraphimXIX wrote:
...There is no scenario in which a regular human or Marine could ever defeat a Primarch in a duel...

For this statement it depends on how creatively you interpret 'regular', and on how you interpret '1 v 1'. Is the 'regular human' allowed a Titan? Is he an alpha-plus psyker? How cybernetically rebuilt is he? What happens if you put him in a Dreadnaught? How much top-tier Mechanicum tech is allowed, and are you defining 'human' in a way that allows them to build a Primarch-killing robot? Where's the bar between 'human' and 'daemon' (ex. the fellow who stabbed Horus with the nemesis blade early in the Heresy books)? Where do Daemon Weapons sit?

Does that include blindside strikes?
Grimnar beat Magnus if it does.

**Darth Bob**

Kaldor Draigo beat up Mortarion and carved his master's name in his heart.

But that's stupid, so ignore it.

**epronovost**

every daemon Primarch bent the knee before Abbadon. While not mentionned outright, I don't see people like Fulgrim or Angron bending before anybody without being humbled first. He did kill himself a clone of Horus. Than again, Abbadon is barely an Astartes anymore. He derives an enormous amount of power from the Gods of Chaos.

**Blackhair Duckshape**

Kor Phaeron managed to subdue Guilliman at Calth before he succumbed to his inner chaotic stupid.

**Kid_Kyoto**

Darth Bob wrote:
Kaldor Draigo beat up Mortarion and carved his master's name in his heart.

Close the thread, it's over.

Mat Ward beats any primarch ever.

**Ketara**

epronovost wrote:
every daemon Primarch bent the knee before Abbadon. While not mentionned outright, I don't see people like Fulgrim or Angron bending before anybody without being humbled first. He did kill himself a clone of Horus. Than again, Abbadon is barely an Astartes anymore. He derives an enormous amount of power from the Gods of Chaos.

Magnus the Red told Abbadon to get the hell out of his system before he vaporised him when Abby showed up looking for his blessing. Abby then had to track down Ahriman in order to get Tzeentch's approval. Magnus has also got sufficient warp muscle of his own to overmatch any blessing any God could bestow on anyone.

But then again, Magnus is the only Chaos Primarch who potentially still does things of his own volition any more. Lorgar always does what the Gods tell him, Curze is dead, Mortarion was tortured into submission by Nurgle, Angron is just an avatar of Khorne's rage, Perturabo spends his time teaming up with Abby in the Dark Gods name, and Alpharius is just a giant question mark.

**Otto Weston**

SeraphimXIX wrote:
Never happened and it never will. There is no scenario in which a regular human or Marine could ever defeat a Primarch in a duel. It's kind of like asking for instances in which a toddler has defeated a grown man in a fight. The physiological differences are too vast.

You could say that... but then again, a toddler with a Nuke could kill a million grown men. It all depends on circumstance, equipment and preparation as does all war.

**Mudrat**

Ketara wrote:
epronovost wrote:
every daemon Primarch bent the knee before Abbadon. While not mentionned outright, I don't see people like Fulgrim or Angron bending before anybody without being humbled first. He did kill himself a clone of Horus. Than again, Abbadon is barely an Astartes anymore. He derives an enormous amount of power from the Gods of Chaos.

Magnus the Red told Abbadon to get the hell out of his system before he vaporised him when Abby showed up looking for his blessing. Abby then had to track down Ahriman in order to get Tzeentch's approval. Magnus has also got sufficient warp muscle of his own to overmatch any blessing any God could bestow on anyone.

But then again, Magnus is the only Chaos Primarch who potentially still does things of his own volition any more. Lorgar always does what the Gods tell him, Curze is dead, Mortarion was tortured into submission by Nurgle, Angron is just an avatar of Khorne's rage, Perturabo spends his time teaming up with Abby in the Dark Gods name, and Alpharius is just a giant question mark.

Epronovost was referencing a line from the Talon of Horus. And I quote:

Spoiler:

As this is recent fluff, I think its safe to say Magnus had to give some sort of acknowledgement to Abaddon.

**Ketara**

Source of below quote:- Black Legion supplement to current Chaos Codex. Codices are usually held as trumping books in terms of authority, as books are written by whatever author is to hand and given too much free reign at times without much attention to content accuracy(C.S. Goto ring a bell?).

During his centuries of exile, Abaddon has visited each of the
six Daemon Primarchs in turn, seeking their aid in his quest
to destroy the Imperium of Man.
From Angron, Primarch of the World Eaters, he gained the
favour of Khorne. In the blood-soaked depths of the
Goreswirl, the Despoiler fought the Primarch's daemonic
champions, sending each one screaming back into the Warp
in a terrifying spectacle of blood and death.

From Mortarion, Primarch of the Death Guard, he earned the
putrescent embrace of Nurgle in exchange for the Hand of
Darkness. The decaying Daemon lord promised to use the
ancient artefact to craft a plague that would stir the rotting
dead to life, provided the Warmaster would see it spread
among the stars.

Though Magnus the Red, Primarch of the Thousand Sons,
refused Abaddon's requests for audience, the Despoiler still
gained the blessing of Tzeentch in exchange for the Eye of
Night, the sightless remnant of the Stone God. He turned
instead to Ahriman, greatest of the Legion's sorcerers, who
alone could see the extent of Abaddon's plan and pledged his
Rubricae in alliance

From Fulgrim, Primarch of the Emperor's Children, the
Despoiler was gifted with the favour of Slaanesh in exchange
for the Pythosian psyker, offered as an unblemished vessel to
contain the avatar of Fulgrim's god. Ancient hatreds were set
aside as the Emperor's Children aligned themselves with the
Black Legion.

From Lorgar, Primarch of the Word Bearers, the Warmaster
learned rare secrets of Daemon binding and the raising of vast
Warp hosts from beyond the Eye. Presented with an
opportunity to subvert and destroy the Church of the God-
Emperor, the Word Bearers turned a blind eye to their feud
with the Emperor's Children and focused their hatred on the
Imperium of Man and its corpse-god.

From Perturabo, Primarch of the Iron Warriors, the Despoiler
was given vast daemonic engines of battle fashioned deep
within the Eye of Terror, each the match for armies oflesser
foes. Eager to test their strength and ingenuity against the
towering fortresses and formidable defences of Cadia, the Iron
Warriors themselves also joined Abaddon's war effort.

That all having been said, your own quote is a personal reminisce/story, as opposed to the birds eye statement of the latter, and both can therefore be true without much difficulty. That is to say, Abbadon may well have told everyone Magnus bowed before him, wanting to give the impression he had the blessing/mastery/unity of all the Primarchs, and instructed his followers to do so the same. 'I got all but one' doesn't sound quite as good on the recruitment brochures, you know? When in reality, Magnus told him to get lost, and is powerful enough that he simply doesn't care what gossip Abby spreads about him.

That would be the logical conclusion to reach if we accept both sources as valid. Judging by the fact Magnus, the only battle-active Chaos Primarch, is off following his own plans instead of weighing in at Cadia, it would be a reasonable assumption that he has little interest in what Abby is up to. He's busy trying to rebuild Prospero and kick the Space Wolves in the gonads, as opposed to trying to topple the Imperium.

**jhe90**

Also it reads.

Each primarch tested, or got something out of the black crusade.
He did not force them to his side, he bought, earned or tapped into existing hatreds and motives.

To say they bowed before him no...
To say they where partners In a venture more like.

Still respect...
One alone could kill him with ease if they wanted to.

**Frazzled**

SeraphimXIX wrote:
Never happened and it never will. There is no scenario in which a regular human or Marine could ever defeat a Primarch in a duel. It's kind of like asking for instances in which a toddler has defeated a grown man in a fight. The physiological differences are too vast.

Melta pistol to the face would do it.

**Engrenages**

Frazzled wrote:
SeraphimXIX wrote:
Never happened and it never will. There is no scenario in which a regular human or Marine could ever defeat a Primarch in a duel. It's kind of like asking for instances in which a toddler has defeated a grown man in a fight. The physiological differences are too vast.

Melta pistol to the face would do it.

Primarchs have been tanking Plasma weaponry from a Warhound Titan

**reds8n**

This doesn't really seem any different than this thread :

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/710308.page

so any discussion can carry on in there.