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Fhionnuisce wrote:

mchammadad wrote:
just because it's not used doesn't mean it isn't there

just because a person uses a flamethrower doesn't mean he has no BS

Irrelevant. The rule says shooting attacks that don't use BS can't be fired as snap shots, nothing about whether the model has BS. No roll to hit, no use of BS, no snap shot.

Then why is it that beams and Nova's can hit a snap shot target, even though they are witch fire attacks that automatically hit

mchammadad wrote:

Fhionnuisce wrote:

mchammadad wrote:
just because it's not used doesn't mean it isn't there

just because a person uses a flamethrower doesn't mean he has no BS

Irrelevant. The rule says shooting attacks that don't use BS can't be fired as snap shots, nothing about whether the model has BS. No roll to hit, no use of BS, no snap shot.

Then why is it that beams and Nova's can hit a snap shot target, even though they are witch fire attacks that automatically hit

Because they're not targeting the Invisible unit, that's why.

 Ghaz wrote:

mchammadad wrote:

Fhionnuisce wrote:

mchammadad wrote:
just because it's not used doesn't mean it isn't there

just because a person uses a flamethrower doesn't mean he has no BS

Irrelevant. The rule says shooting attacks that don't use BS can't be fired as snap shots, nothing about whether the model has BS. No roll to hit, no use of BS, no snap shot.

Then why is it that beams and Nova's can hit a snap shot target, even though they are witch fire attacks that automatically hit

Because they're not targeting the Invisible unit, that's why.

What he said. They are in fact specifically prohibited from targetting the invisble unit. Since those types can hit a unit other than what is targetted they addressed the situation where that might happen, but that ruling has no bearing on Psychic Shriek.

But Nova's target and hit every unit in range..... so by that logic it wouldn't work cause of the whole 'you don't roll to hit'

unless...... the attack is resolved at BS 1 which automatically hits.


That is the only explanation how a nova can hit, otherwise you would be going against the very ruling in the FAQ

Nova (BRB) first two lines

A nova power automatically targets and hits all enemy units (including Flyers
and Flying Monstrous Creatures) within the psychic power’s maximum range,

Fhionnuisce wrote:

mchammadad wrote:
just because it's not used doesn't mean it isn't there

just because a person uses a flamethrower doesn't mean he has no BS

Irrelevant. The rule says shooting attacks that don't use BS can't be fired as snap shots, nothing about whether the model has BS. No roll to hit, no use of BS, no snap shot.

This is where you're going off the rails. You are invoking a rule that we can't get to unless we analogize Psychic Shriek to something like a Flamer, which we have no reason to do (and contextual evidence that we should not as outlined above). Novas and profile-less Witchfires are BS1 Snap Shots that auto-hit their targets. That's not the same as "does not use BS".

 Ghaz wrote:
From the Main Rulebook FAQ:

Q: How does the Invisibility psychic power work in relation to nova and beam powers, and Template and Blast weapons not initially targeting the invisible unit?

A: You cannot choose to target an invisible unit with such attacks, but should models from the unit end up beneath the template, marker or line of fire, then they can be hit using the normal rules. The invisible unit would be hit if it was on the line of a beam, if it was in the range of a nova, or if a blast ended up being scattered onto it. For Template weapons, as long as you follow the rules – ensuring that the template ‘covers as many models in the target unit as possible, without touching any other friendly units’ – then if the invisible unit was also fully or partially under the template, it would be hit.

States you cannot choose to have these types of attacks target an invisible unit but provides special permission for them to hit the invisble unit regardless. Novas auto target and hit everything in range so you do not choose targets, the rest can't target invisible but by their rules can hit non-targetted units so they clarify that can be an invisible one. Psychic Shriek only hits the targetted unit so these special handling clarifications don't apply. It works nothing like a nova, beam, template, or blast.

Psychic shriek uses normal targetting and shooting rules so would only be able to fire snap shots at invisible units, but since it doesn't use BS it is banned from snap shots so instead can't hit invis units at all.

Audustum has it right.

Nova's target everything. So by that logic (According to these post) should never be able to hit invisible units, again it would be contradicting the very FAQ

Audustum wrote:

Fhionnuisce wrote:

mchammadad wrote:
just because it's not used doesn't mean it isn't there

just because a person uses a flamethrower doesn't mean he has no BS

Irrelevant. The rule says shooting attacks that don't use BS can't be fired as snap shots, nothing about whether the model has BS. No roll to hit, no use of BS, no snap shot.

This is where you're going off the rails. You are invoking a rule that we can't get to unless we analogize Psychic Shriek to something like a Flamer, which we have no reason to do (and contextual evidence that we should not as outlined above). Novas and profile-less Witchfires are BS1 Snap Shots that auto-hit their targets. That's not the same as "does not use BS".

BS is only used to roll to hit. If there is no roll to hit then how is BS used?

Fhionnuisce wrote:

Audustum wrote:

Fhionnuisce wrote:

mchammadad wrote:
just because it's not used doesn't mean it isn't there

just because a person uses a flamethrower doesn't mean he has no BS

Irrelevant. The rule says shooting attacks that don't use BS can't be fired as snap shots, nothing about whether the model has BS. No roll to hit, no use of BS, no snap shot.

This is where you're going off the rails. You are invoking a rule that we can't get to unless we analogize Psychic Shriek to something like a Flamer, which we have no reason to do (and contextual evidence that we should not as outlined above). Novas and profile-less Witchfires are BS1 Snap Shots that auto-hit their targets. That's not the same as "does not use BS".

BS is only used to roll to hit. If there is no roll to hit then how is BS used?

It is being used, it's just you dont need to do anything.

Remember it is Auto hitting, meaning you could roll a dice but it will always resolve itself as though you rolled a '6' no matter what it rolls on.

An auto hit is still rolling to hit, in this case it is rolling to hit on BS 1. But always resolves itself as thought it will always hit

mchammadad wrote:
(Errata 2017 BRB)

Page 27 – The Psychic Phase, Witchfire
Add the following sentence after the fourth sentence of
the first paragraph:
‘However, some witchfire powers do not have a weapon
profile (such as the Telepathy power, Psychic Shriek);
where this is the case, no To Hit roll is required – the
attack hits automatically.

No roll to hit required means there is no roll to hit. Not roll if you want but all results are hits. You have to have permission to do things in the game, you can't decide to do them randomly and say they don't matter.

Fhionnuisce wrote:

mchammadad wrote:
(Errata 2017 BRB)

Page 27 – The Psychic Phase, Witchfire
Add the following sentence after the fourth sentence of
the first paragraph:
‘However, some witchfire powers do not have a weapon
profile (such as the Telepathy power, Psychic Shriek);
where this is the case, no To Hit roll is required – the
attack hits automatically.

No roll to hit required means there is no roll to hit. Not roll if you want but all results are hits. You have to have permission to do things in the game, you can't decide to do them randomly and say they don't matter.

There is a roll to hit thought, becuase it says the roll to hit is not (required) see what is in the brackets

This is different to 'there is no roll to hit" different context

It means that you don't need to roll, cause it already rolled for you, and it was a hit. Not you don't roll

Yeah, something not being 'required' doesn't mean it does not exist, it just means it's optional.

You are not required to bring a sandwich for lunch. This means you can bring one if you want to; it's optional.

mchammadad wrote:

Fhionnuisce wrote:

mchammadad wrote:
(Errata 2017 BRB)

Page 27 – The Psychic Phase, Witchfire
Add the following sentence after the fourth sentence of
the first paragraph:
‘However, some witchfire powers do not have a weapon
profile (such as the Telepathy power, Psychic Shriek);
where this is the case, no To Hit roll is required – the
attack hits automatically.

No roll to hit required means there is no roll to hit. Not roll if you want but all results are hits. You have to have permission to do things in the game, you can't decide to do them randomly and say they don't matter.

There is a roll to hit thought, becuase it says the roll to hit is not (required) see what is in the brackets

This is different to 'there is no roll to hit" different context

It means that you don't need to roll, cause it already rolled for you, and it was a hit. Not you don't roll

An attack only rolls to hit once, so your interpretation also means you don't roll.

The only way BS is used in this game is to compare to the chart to determine what roll you need to hit. If you don't need to view that chart to determine hit then it hasn't been used.

Looking from a different perspective, if auto hits do use BS as you think, then what is the situation they are addressing for shooting attacks that don't use BS?

Actually, BS is also used for scatter on blast weapons, not just for consulting the chart.

Audustum wrote:
Actually, BS is also used for scatter on blast weapons, not just for consulting the chart.

That is a fair point, but that use isn't applicable here either. So we aren't comparing to the chart to determine what is needed to hit and are not determining scatter on a blast. Unless there is another usage I've missed that is all you use BS for and neither apply to an auto hit attack. Once again leading to the conclusion tgat Psychic Shriek does not use BS so can not be snap shot.

I would say someone who has been reduced to BS 0. (although that is rare in 40k)

i would probably also say anything that is both a mallediction and a witchfire?..... i cant really say that there is something out there that has no need for a BS


Automatically Appended Next Post:
you can compare to the chart, but it wouldn't matter cause it's optional with psychic Shriek

like I've been saying, it is a witchfire power that is BS1 and automatically hits for the player, the player rolling to hit is optional but it is already done

It's also like the power on the tyranids powers, the one that's basically psychic Shriek but is 2D6 - 2 instead.

It's interesting how we are debating this one when we didnt even talk about tht one

Roll all you want. BS doesn't affect the roll, it is used to determine if that roll hits. Except in this case it didn't determine whether it hits because the rule says Psychic Shriek always hits. So we don't use BS to determine if there is a hit on Psychic Shriek and BS doesn't get used for anything besides determining if a shooting attack hits.

Again I ask you, how is BS being used with an auto hit attack?

Did you roll to hit? If not then BS was not used and you can't Snap Shot. How is this a difficult concept?

I have no business wadding in here, because I have none of the books in front of me, but let me see if I get this straight:

#1 - Invisibility makes it so that any shots against the unit are Snap Shots.

#2 - Snap Shots are done at BS1, but templates, blasts, and things that "automatically hit" cannot be fired as a Snap Shot.

#3 - Psychic Shriek is said to "hit automatically" (as per the official FAQ), but the question is if it was ever "fired".


Well, personally, my brain did a few jumps back and forth, but I think that in order to "hit automatically", something must be "fired" in the first place. In this case, I would side that Psychic Shriek CANNOT target an Invisible unit.

Actually Important Note:
The Genestealer Cult Draft FAQ specifically mentioned Psychic Shriek and how it interacted with the Patriarch, who was BS0 if I recall. There was a question of whether or not the Patriarch could "fire" the Psychic Shriek in the past (when some people thought you needed a to-hit roll for Shriek), since if you had BS0 the rules say you can't even fire a weapon. The Draft FAQ said that the Patriarch COULD still use it, which would require the attack to never have been "fired" at all. Had that ruling still been in place, I'd have argued that it was never "fired" and so could still target the Invisible unit. However, that ruling is conspicuously absent from the Final FAQ's. Since all the FAQ's are now final, the currently ruling must be that Psychic Shriek, as a focused witchfire power, must be "fired", and that means the Patriarch can't shoot it. Dang.

 Yarium wrote:
I have no business wadding in here, because I have none of the books in front of me, but let me see if I get this straight:

#1 - Invisibility makes it so that any shots against the unit are Snap Shots.

#2 - Snap Shots are done at BS1, but templates, blasts, and things that "automatically hit" cannot be fired as a Snap Shot.

#3 - Psychic Shriek is said to "hit automatically" (as per the official FAQ), but the question is if it was ever "fired".


Well, personally, my brain did a few jumps back and forth, but I think that in order to "hit automatically", something must be "fired" in the first place. In this case, I would side that Psychic Shriek CANNOT target an Invisible unit.

In addition to this, the only reason Beams and Novas CAN hit Invisible units has nothing to do with them not targeting the unit, well it does, but only because the FAQ says so.
Citing that Shriek should work because Beams & Novas do is wrong. Beams & Novas work because they have been given specific permission to, and by contrast Shriek has been denied permission by the same FAQ.

-

Be aware if the only unit that can be hit by the nova is the invisiable unit. Could you still use it as the only viable target for the spell is the invisible unit.

 rawne2510 wrote:
Be aware if the only unit that can be hit by the nova is the invisiable unit. Could you still use it as the only viable target for the spell is the invisible unit.

Novas don't target enemy units, they just affect those in range. So I don't see a conflict with the FAQ saying they are still affected.

Slipspace wrote:
Did you roll to hit? If not then BS was not used and you can't Snap Shot. How is this a difficult concept?

Because under that interpretation Nova's couldn't hit invisible units. While the roll is not 'required' that doesn't mean it's not technically there.

Fhionnuisce wrote:
Roll all you want. BS doesn't affect the roll, it is used to determine if that roll hits. Except in this case it didn't determine whether it hits because the rule says Psychic Shriek always hits. So we don't use BS to determine if there is a hit on Psychic Shriek and BS doesn't get used for anything besides determining if a shooting attack hits.

Again I ask you, how is BS being used with an auto hit attack?

It's there it's just not doing anything. You can roll, the roll just isn't required.

 Yarium wrote:
I have no business wadding in here, because I have none of the books in front of me, but let me see if I get this straight:

#1 - Invisibility makes it so that any shots against the unit are Snap Shots.

#2 - Snap Shots are done at BS1, but templates, blasts, and things that "automatically hit" cannot be fired as a Snap Shot.

#3 - Psychic Shriek is said to "hit automatically" (as per the official FAQ), but the question is if it was ever "fired".


Well, personally, my brain did a few jumps back and forth, but I think that in order to "hit automatically", something must be "fired" in the first place. In this case, I would side that Psychic Shriek CANNOT target an Invisible unit.

Actually Important Note:
The Genestealer Cult Draft FAQ specifically mentioned Psychic Shriek and how it interacted with the Patriarch, who was BS0 if I recall. There was a question of whether or not the Patriarch could "fire" the Psychic Shriek in the past (when some people thought you needed a to-hit roll for Shriek), since if you had BS0 the rules say you can't even fire a weapon. The Draft FAQ said that the Patriarch COULD still use it, which would require the attack to never have been "fired" at all. Had that ruling still been in place, I'd have argued that it was never "fired" and so could still target the Invisible unit. However, that ruling is conspicuously absent from the Final FAQ's. Since all the FAQ's are now final, the currently ruling must be that Psychic Shriek, as a focused witchfire power, must be "fired", and that means the Patriarch can't shoot it. Dang.

Mmm, this is where you're off base slightly. The rules do not say that something which "automatically hits" cannot be fired as a Snap Shot. It says something that "does not use BS", which is different.

 Galef wrote:

In addition to this, the only reason Beams and Novas CAN hit Invisible units has nothing to do with them not targeting the unit, well it does, but only because the FAQ says so.
Citing that Shriek should work because Beams & Novas do is wrong. Beams & Novas work because they have been given specific permission to, and by contrast Shriek has been denied permission by the same FAQ.

-

Not quite. The FAQ does say Novas can hit, but it's not because they have some special permission to: it's because RAW allows them to. To pull this back to the legal example, you don't just look at how a court ruled, you look at why it ruled that way.

The FAQ:

Q: How does the Invisibility psychic power work in relation to nova and beam powers, and Template and Blast weapons not initially targeting the invisible unit?

A: You cannot choose to target an invisible unit with such attacks, but should models from the unit end up beneath the template, marker or line of fire, then they can be hit using the normal rules. The invisible unit would be hit if it was on the line of a beam, if it was in the range of a nova or if a blast ended up being scattered onto it. For Template weapons, as long as you follow the rules - ensuring that the template 'covers' as many models in the target unit as possible, without touching any other friendly units' - then if the invisible unit was also fully or partially under the template, it would be hit.

So this says you can't choose to target an invisible unit with a Nova, which makes sense because Novas specifically say they automatically target everything; you never had any choice to begin with. The invisible unit is then hit if it is in range of the Nova. That's it. Nowhere does this answer make a special permission for Novas to hit invisible units: it's actually saying that they already had that ability.

Let's recap the evidence here:

1. Novas automatically target every unit in range (including invisible ones). They are not hitting like a blast but instead work as an individual 'shot' at each unit.
2. Novas automatically hit.
3. Novas can hit invisible units.

1. Psychic Shriek automatically hits.
2. Games Workshop uses the exact same language to describe how Psychic Shriek and Novas automatically hit.

Psychic Shriek should thus operate similar to a Nova and be able to target and hit an invisible unit.

 Galef wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:
Be aware if the only unit that can be hit by the nova is the invisiable unit. Could you still use it as the only viable target for the spell is the invisible unit.

Novas don't target enemy units, they just affect those in range. So I don't see a conflict with the FAQ saying they are still affected.

This is incorrect. RAW for Novas in the Rulebook:

A nova power automatically targets and hits all enemy units (including Flyers and Flying Monstrous Creatures) within the psychic power’s maximum range, regardless of line of sight, being locked in combat, intervening models/terrain and so on. Otherwise, a nova is treated like a shooting attack, and indeed will have a profile like a ranged weapon.

Audustum wrote:

Fhionnuisce wrote:


Again I ask you, how is BS being used with an auto hit attack?

It's there it's just not doing anything. You can roll, the roll just isn't required.

How do you figure? I have seen no evidence for this. Nothing in the rulebook or FAQ says that anything that hits automatically has an "optional to-hit roll."

Mmm, this is where you're off base slightly. The rules do not say that something which "automatically hits" cannot be fired as a Snap Shot. It says something that "does not use BS", which is different.

Something that does not use BS, such as a shooting attack that automatically hits due to not requiring a roll to hit. Evidenced by the fact that a model with BS0 can shoot it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Audustum wrote:


The FAQ:

Q: How does the Invisibility psychic power work in relation to nova and beam powers, and Template and Blast weapons not initially targeting the invisible unit?

A: You cannot choose to target an invisible unit with such attacks, but should models from the unit end up beneath the template, marker or line of fire, then they can be hit using the normal rules. The invisible unit would be hit if it was on the line of a beam, if it was in the range of a nova or if a blast ended up being scattered onto it. For Template weapons, as long as you follow the rules - ensuring that the template 'covers' as many models in the target unit as possible, without touching any other friendly units' - then if the invisible unit was also fully or partially under the template, it would be hit.

So this says you can't choose to target an invisible unit with a Nova, which makes sense because Novas specifically say they automatically target everything; you never had any choice to begin with. The invisible unit is then hit if it is in range of the Nova. That's it. Nowhere does this answer make a special permission for Novas to hit invisible units: it's actually saying that they already had that ability.

Let's recap the evidence here:

1. Novas automatically target every unit in range (including invisible ones). They are not hitting like a blast but instead work as an individual 'shot' at each unit.
2. Novas automatically hit.
3. Novas can hit invisible units.

1. Psychic Shriek automatically hits.
2. Games Workshop uses the exact same language to describe how Psychic Shriek and Novas automatically hit.

Psychic Shriek should thus operate similar to a Nova and be able to target and hit an invisible unit.

What you don't realize here is that you DO in fact have to choose a target for Psychic Shriek, unlike EVERY nova ever. Which disallows it from targeting an Invisible unit due to it being an automatically hitting TARGETED attack that can not be used as a snap shot.

Audustum wrote:

Fhionnuisce wrote:
Roll all you want. BS doesn't affect the roll, it is used to determine if that roll hits. Except in this case it didn't determine whether it hits because the rule says Psychic Shriek always hits. So we don't use BS to determine if there is a hit on Psychic Shriek and BS doesn't get used for anything besides determining if a shooting attack hits.

Again I ask you, how is BS being used with an auto hit attack?

It's there it's just not doing anything. You can roll, the roll just isn't required.

What you are saying doesn't match the conclusions you are reaching. If BS isn't doing anything then it isn't being used.

You keep trying to connect BS with your ability to roll the shooting attack. it doesn't do that. BS is used to determine if a shooting attack hits. If it automatically hits then you don't use BS to make that determination, you use the rules that make it auto hit. Whether BS "is there" doesn't matter, if you don't use the BS then it can't snap shot.

Jacksmiles wrote:

Audustum wrote:

Fhionnuisce wrote:


Again I ask you, how is BS being used with an auto hit attack?

It's there it's just not doing anything. You can roll, the roll just isn't required.

How do you figure? I have seen no evidence for this. Nothing in the rulebook or FAQ says that anything that hits automatically has an "optional to-hit roll."

Audustum wrote:

You can still make the roll and add your BS. It just doesn't matter what you roll. The same is true for Novas. You can't disqualify the one without disqualifying the other and the FAQ says Novas are O.K.

You don't "make the roll and add your BS" to resolve a shooting attack. In a normal non-blast shooting attack you make a roll then compare the result of that roll to chart to determine if it hit. If it auto hits you don't make that comparison so BS never comes into play and is not used.

It's also worth noting in all this discussion that for the same reasons nova attacks can't make snap shots either. They have rules that allow them to hit invisible units and flyers regardless, but you cannot fire a nova in overwatch and you cannot fire a heavy nova after moving.

Fhionnuisce wrote:

Audustum wrote:

You can still make the roll and add your BS. It just doesn't matter what you roll. The same is true for Novas. You can't disqualify the one without disqualifying the other and the FAQ says Novas are O.K.

You don't "make the roll and add your BS" to resolve a shooting attack. In a normal non-blast shooting attack you make a roll then compare the result of that roll to chart to determine if it hit. If it auto hits you don't make that comparison so BS never comes into play and is not used.

It's also worth noting in all this discussion that for the same reasons nova attacks can't make snap shots either. They have rules that allow them to hit invisible units and flyers regardless, but you cannot fire a nova in overwatch and you cannot fire a heavy nova after moving.

Or if you've jinked, I assume, which is more likely. What nova has "heavy" in its profile?

But seriously. You don't use BS with an attack that automatically hits. Believing that to be true is why you seem to believe everything else, and you need to let that go, because it's not true. Find it for me. Show me where you have the option "roll and add bs even though it doesn't matter" to a template weapon.

Jacksmiles wrote:

Fhionnuisce wrote:

Audustum wrote:

You can still make the roll and add your BS. It just doesn't matter what you roll. The same is true for Novas. You can't disqualify the one without disqualifying the other and the FAQ says Novas are O.K.

You don't "make the roll and add your BS" to resolve a shooting attack. In a normal non-blast shooting attack you make a roll then compare the result of that roll to chart to determine if it hit. If it auto hits you don't make that comparison so BS never comes into play and is not used.

It's also worth noting in all this discussion that for the same reasons nova attacks can't make snap shots either. They have rules that allow them to hit invisible units and flyers regardless, but you cannot fire a nova in overwatch and you cannot fire a heavy nova after moving.

Or if you've jinked, I assume, which is more likely. What nova has "heavy" in its profile?

But seriously. You don't use BS with an attack that automatically hits. Believing that to be true is why you seem to believe everything else, and you need to let that go, because it's not true. Find it for me. Show me where you have the option "roll and add bs even though it doesn't matter" to a template weapon.

Go back to the analogies on page 1. Psychic Shriek is more like a nova than a template weapons. Novas have an optional roll and can hit invisibility, thus Shriek can to. You're just making everyone regurgitate 2 pages of arguments at this point.

Fhionnuisce wrote:

Audustum wrote:

You can still make the roll and add your BS. It just doesn't matter what you roll. The same is true for Novas. You can't disqualify the one without disqualifying the other and the FAQ says Novas are O.K.

You don't "make the roll and add your BS" to resolve a shooting attack. In a normal non-blast shooting attack you make a roll then compare the result of that roll to chart to determine if it hit. If it auto hits you don't make that comparison so BS never comes into play and is not used.

Audustum wrote:

Jacksmiles wrote:

Fhionnuisce wrote:

Audustum wrote:

You can still make the roll and add your BS. It just doesn't matter what you roll. The same is true for Novas. You can't disqualify the one without disqualifying the other and the FAQ says Novas are O.K.

You don't "make the roll and add your BS" to resolve a shooting attack. In a normal non-blast shooting attack you make a roll then compare the result of that roll to chart to determine if it hit. If it auto hits you don't make that comparison so BS never comes into play and is not used.

It's also worth noting in all this discussion that for the same reasons nova attacks can't make snap shots either. They have rules that allow them to hit invisible units and flyers regardless, but you cannot fire a nova in overwatch and you cannot fire a heavy nova after moving.

Or if you've jinked, I assume, which is more likely. What nova has "heavy" in its profile?

But seriously. You don't use BS with an attack that automatically hits. Believing that to be true is why you seem to believe everything else, and you need to let that go, because it's not true. Find it for me. Show me where you have the option "roll and add bs even though it doesn't matter" to a template weapon.

Go back to the analogies on page 1. Psychic Shriek is more like a nova than a template weapons. Novas have an optional roll and can hit invisibility, thus Shriek can to. You're just making everyone regurgitate 2 pages of arguments at this point.

Fhionnuisce wrote:

Audustum wrote:

You can still make the roll and add your BS. It just doesn't matter what you roll. The same is true for Novas. You can't disqualify the one without disqualifying the other and the FAQ says Novas are O.K.

You don't "make the roll and add your BS" to resolve a shooting attack. In a normal non-blast shooting attack you make a roll then compare the result of that roll to chart to determine if it hit. If it auto hits you don't make that comparison so BS never comes into play and is not used.

Oh dear, if you're looking at the To-Hit chart that's the wrong place. That's for close quarters combat. For shooting, you deduct your BS from 7. Alternatively, you add your BS to your roll and attempt to equal or exceed 7. You can do this for Shriek ("not required" is permissive), it just hits anyway.

It's also worth noting in all this discussion that for the same reasons nova attacks can't make snap shots either. They have rules that allow them to hit invisible units and flyers regardless, but you cannot fire a nova in overwatch and you cannot fire a heavy nova after moving.

An errata is when a company adds rules. A FAQ is when they answer a question within the rules as written. The 'novas hit invisible stuff' is from the FAQ portion not an errata portion. That means, GW is saying under RAW novas target and hit invisible units and fliers. There is no special rule allowing them to do this.

GW uses the same language to describe Shriek and novas mechanisms for hitting units. Thus, under GW's interpretation of RAW, Shriek can hit invisible.

Novas have rules and FAQ text specifically saying they can hit those units. Psychic Shriek does not. You can't apply nova rules just because you have decided they work similar or they overlap on some of the rules wording.

There is a chart for shooting to hit as well. It happens that the number on the chart equate to 7-BS but the chart does exist. Either way it doesn't change the fact that you don't make that comparison if you auto hit. Rules only tell you to make one determination of whether the attack hits. You want to determine both ways then choose the better option.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even if you did use both options, if you compare using BS to determine hit then ignore that result because it auto hits then BS still wasn't used in game mechanics. You went through a mental exercise with BS to justify your position but it played no part whatsoever in the resolution of that attack.