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I'm thinking about branching out into Eldar with a start collecting box. I wrote a 250 point list with the windriders and farseer. Would this be ridiculously good against some marines?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if anybody has any advice for expansion...

Eldar arent really points reliant to bring out powerful stuff. That said, 250pts is hard to make a functional army of any kind, however wind riders are probably one of the most powerful things you could have in such a small game of what would primarily be armies of slow infantry opponents

Eldar are cheese at any points level. The only way to not bring cheese is to choose the handful of units they have which Eldar players consider Bad and every other army considers average to good.

Windriders w/ shuricannon or scatterlaser, warp spiders, or wraithknights are cheese at every level because they are all undercosted.

Are Guardians any good?

NivlacSupreme wrote:
I'm thinking about branching out into Eldar with a start collecting box. I wrote a 250 point list with the windriders and farseer. Would this be ridiculously good against some marines?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if anybody has any advice for expansion...

Yes, One of the best HQ's in the game and what is easily the best troop in the game (possibly the best unit period in the game) will be rediculously good against almost anything, especially at 250 points.

As for expansion, pick literally anything you like out of the eldar dex. Even stuff like Shining Spears are more than enough to make casual lists cry.

Dire Avengers would probably be a better bet than Guardians, as long as youre not giving them free BS5 theyre not terribly out of whack with similar units.

Eldar is cheese at any points level

They are that strong.

When your strongest list is based on a simple CAD setup the point's don't really factor into the cheese level all that much.

Eldar are strong, and the start collecting box is 2/3s really good stuff, and 1/3 not bad.

To play it friendly, ease up on the bikes. Run them with the old 1-in-3 heavy weapon restriction. You can magnetize them if you want to go full competitive in the future.

The Fire prism in not bad, but overshadowed my most other choices in it’s slot.

Where to go from there depends a lot on what you like. My personal suggestion would be to see if you can find one of the old battleforces (Wave Serpent, 10 guardians, 5 dire avengers, vyper) which adds some fluffy and fun units that are not the best. Get the job done without hitting the cheese. Alternatively, the new armored assault box could work (WS, 5xDA).

As long as you steer away from the broken stuff (spiders, scatbikes, WKs, D-spam) you should be able to put together a decent list that’s fun to play on both sides of the table.

Let's just say you'll have a hard time making a *bad* Eldar list as long as you don't take more than 3 of the worst units in the codex (rangers). Eldar are actually one of the best codexes out there in the fact that everything is playable, however certain stuff is decidedly too playable.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Let's just say you'll have a hard time making a *bad* Eldar list as long as you don't take more than 3 of the worst units in the codex (rangers). Eldar are actually one of the best codexes out there in the fact that everything is playable, however certain stuff is decidedly too playable.

12ppm snipers and Eldar wonder why we hate them so much

Any chance we can just get this thread locked since it is just an Eldar rant thread now?
Or is this just something the community has to do as a form a catharsis?

 Galef wrote:
Any chance we can just get this thread locked since it is just an Eldar rant thread now?
Or is this just something the community has to do as a form a catharsis?

Rant? I don't think you've understood the nature of the conversation here. The OP states he bought the start colllecting box and he'd like to know how to expand. The majority of responses here all say the same thing, the Eldar Codex is so good that when playing casual games you can take almost anything and you needn't worry you have a bad list. That is *exactly* what part of the OP's post has asked for.

As someone who just decided to start Eldar (before the three new models were announced) what I am noticing is that almost everything is good, and some things are too good. This can pose a problem if you like Jetbikes and Wraith units (like I do) but in general, the opinion seems to be moderation. If you take a unit of bikers, don't give them all scatter lasers. If you take a Wraithguard unit, maybe don't give them D-scythes. The Wraithknight is a weird thing because in any combination it's amazing, and it's super cheap.

I'm looking at building a small Eldar force (probably around 1500 points or so) and the core of my army is going to be:

Farseer on Bike
3x Windriders w/Shuriken Cannon, Warlock on bike
3x Windriders w/Scatter Laser, Warlock on bike
9x Dire Avengers, Exarch w/Power Sword and Shimmershield, Wave Serpent w/Missile Launcher
5x Wraithblades w/Axe + Shield (the idea here is with a fragile shooty force, I want something beefy)
2x Fire Prisms

Which is also economical as it's basically two Start Collecting boxes, and then two of the new armoed assault boxes (with the Dire Avengers + Wave Serpent). I'm not sure what else I want to add yet.

As to if it's cheese, I don't know so I can't answer that, but in general if you do it in moderation you should not have a problem.

Wayniac wrote:

Farseer on Bike
3x Windriders w/Shuriken Cannon, Warlock on bike
3x Windriders w/Scatter Laser, Warlock on bike
9x Dire Avengers, Exarch w/Power Sword and Shimmershield, Wave Serpent w/Missile Launcher
5x Wraithblades w/Axe + Shield (the idea here is with a fragile shooty force, I want something beefy)
2x Fire Prisms

This list is good without being too cheesy. Wraithblades are the least competitive way to get Wraith-constructs in, but they are at least semi-useful. They can counter charge and protect your Prisms from assault.
Warlocks add points to an already fragile unit, but aren't terrible. I would keep them

The only change I would suggest is to not upgrade every bike. So if you really have to, do all Shuricannons. They have less shots and range, so they aren't so OMG TFG!
I personally run my bikes with 2 Shuricannons & 1 Scatter laser. It allows me to get some use out of them outside 24", but I need risk getting closer to use their full affect.
So far, my opponents haven't complained....at least not to my face, lol.

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Having to get within 24" is much more hazardous than the absurd 36" on the scatterlaser. A bad battle focus roll and you are eating assault cannons and boltguns and the like.

Martel732 wrote:
Having to get within 24" is much more hazardous than the absurd 36" on the scatterlaser. A bad battle focus roll and you are eating assault cannons and boltguns and the like.

Exactly. It has happened to me plenty of times. Having just 1 Scatter laser allows me to stay farther away and still pop shots, but I'm paying for the other 2 guns, essentially meaning I am paying 80+pts for 1 Scatter laser that turn, or getting closer to risk using all the guns. After all, 1 dead bike means an LD8 moral check. I have failed plenty of those and ran off the board.

So take either all Shuricannons, or only 1 Scatter laser per 3 and you can greatly minimize the cheese. I also wouldn't take more than 2-3 units of bike if you are really worried about cheese.
I take 4 units, but as a Saim-Hann themed Eldar player sicne 4th ed, those are the only Troops I play, aside from the occasional Dire Avenger unit

Martel732 wrote:
Having to get within 24" is much more hazardous than the absurd 36" on the scatterlaser. A bad battle focus roll and you are eating assault cannons and boltguns and the like.

The flipside though, is that shuricannons get the Bladestorm rule. So, they're not that much less cheesy. Plus, don't forget Eldar jetbikes get a free movement in the assault phase, so they can move in, shoot, and then move back out again. The only way they're not cheesy is to limit them to 1-heavy-per-3, and even then they're stronger than most Troops choices.

I'm being as generous as possible here.

I let my friend have 195 extra points for a contemptor. Are shuricannons or scatterbikes better at killing armor?

NivlacSupreme wrote:
Are shuricannons or scatterbikes better at killing armor?

Considering both have the same strength and neither get any bonuses against armour, wouldn't the one with more shots and range be best?
This is why Scatter lasers are considered the "best" option. Because they can force enough saves to do the same damage as the Shuricannon with Bladestorm, yet can do more damage to light vehicles.

If you guys are doing a points difference in his favor, I would take Scatter lasers all day. You can only hurt AV12 on a 6 anyway. That takes 1 unit of Scatterbikes about 2 turns to drop. Or 1 really lucky turn.
I played a competitive game once and could kill a Rhino with 3 units worth of Scatters. I had to use my WK to pop a 35pt free Rhino.

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 Galef wrote:

NivlacSupreme wrote:
Are shuricannons or scatterbikes better at killing armor?

Considering both have the same strength and neither get any bonuses against armour, wouldn't the one with more shots and range be best?
This is why Scatter lasers are considered the "best" option. Because they can force enough saves to do the same damage as the Shuricannon with Bladestorm, yet can do more damage to light vehicles.

If you guys are doing a points difference in his favor, I would take Scatter lasers all day.

I've done some rolling. I can glance the thing to death from behind really easily. Way before it's short ranged anti TEQ weapons are in range. I might buy some of those cheap guardians to practice on.