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Got into a interesting event as our local will hold a "friendly tournament" (the victor will be nicknamed "friendship killer" ) that start at incoming March. Looks like going to be semi-competitive while encourage everyone to have fun.
Restrictions of the "tournament" is NO FORMATION allowed, Restricted LoW to one per army. AND single detachment. (i.e. No IK, and at most one WK per eldar army)
On myself, I've been tired of using marines and deathstars, so now want to bring up my Necrons in a CAD. It may be like the following:

HQ (180pts)
Destroyer Lord (180pts)
Void Reaper, Phase Shifter, Phylactery,

Troops (365pts)
Necron Warriors (130pts)

Necron Warriors (235pts)
Ghost Ark

Elite (410pts)
Triarch Stalker (135pts)
TL Heavy Gauss Cannon

Triarch Stalker (125pts)
Heat Ray

Lychguards (150pts)
5men Sword and Shield

Fast Attcks (280pts)
Scarab (100pts)
5 bases

Scarab (60pts)
4 bases

Tomb Blade (120pts)
5 Tomb Blades
Nebulo Scope, Shield Vain, Particle Beamer

Heavy Support (265pts)
Heavy Destroyer (100pts)
2 men Heavy Destroyers

Heavy Destroyer (50pts)

Tomb Spiders (115pts)
2 Spiders, one with Fabricator Claw Array, one with Gloom Prism


There goes a "combined arms fun Necron take all comer force". I hope that for most things on board, a gun line of 20 warriors backed by Ghost Ark (so 30 Gauss shots at 24 inch, 50 at 12 inches) and buffed by Destroyer Lord and Stalkers there will be 10 warriors at status of BS10 equivalent other 10 at BS5. For light to mid armor and MCs the Heavy Destroyers can deal with them, for hordes relying cover save there will be Tomb blades. While the Lychguard and Dlord stand guard against enemy assault units, and the Scarabs will try to go aggressive to destroy (at least tie up) anything at opportunity.

Any suggestions? Anything can be trimmed? Or anything can be added for more fun? Any comment is welcomed.

Looks quiet..... no ideas yet? is it too bad for a fun tournament?

I'll chime in and give some feedback for consideration since you don't have a response.

The list is well rounded, with elements covered. You're implementing several scattered combo's while not really committing to any of them. This is fine, but it's likely your opponent will find gaps in your army before you do, and I'm not seeing much to come back from that. Without knowing what Scenarios you're running I'll point out some generic things for you to look at.

- The Destroyer Lord doesn't really have an effective home to go into where that PE will have an impact early on in the game. Your Destroyers have the long range that you won't need to tank, the Warrior unit on the ground is too small, and the Lychguard are just as fast as the rest of the army. If you plan on branching him off, he won't last too long outside of a unit. This is only an issue if you're not doing enough damage, which is very generic.

- You might want to consider combining the scarab units (and I think your points are off). With anything S6+, so Tau/Eldar, they'll destroy these smaller units even when you add the two bases from the Spyders. After they go off skipping through the battlefield, they'll be out of range to make much use of the Spyders. If you have the one large unit, they might survive long enough to disrupt your opponents plans for a turn. The idea of having two units to cover more bases is a good idea, but you've got the Lychguard in there to cover that.

- Vehicles don't benefit from Stalkers. So the BS is bonus is really only being utilized by 20 Warriors and the Tomb Blades. Yes, they help the Heavy Destroyers, but as single shot weapons that come with PE, it shouldn't be common that they're missing much at this point level.

- Your Tomb Blade setup is exactly how I run mine. Keep them in range of the Stalkers and you'll have BS5 Templates for killer accuracy. Keep in mind that at S6, they'll still glance most Transports. They're phenomenal against the Dark Eldar, Harlequin, and Ork Transports which are pretty effective on lower point games and you might see them. My point is, don't limit them to just shooting hordes of infantry because that's the best use for them.

-----
Alternatives.

- The Lychguard is the one unit that's almost out of place. They're effectiveness is going to be entirely dependent on your opponent coming at you. Otherwise, they're going to sit out for 1/2 the game. I understand the 'Star' mentality by throwing the DLord in there but you have other options for the points. Wraiths or Praetorians fit better in here if you could find the points. Their speed will give you the flexibility to match the Scarabs instead of determining the order your opponent will kill you for him. Another option would be to divide the the points up and bulk out both units of Scarabs to do roughly the same thing, but you're banking on not running into S6+ weapons vs. Mass fire to take out the Lychguard. If you do this, then add a 3rd Spyder to be able to add 3 bases to either unit.

- Zahndrekh would be an effective replacement for the DLord. The change of WL traits and being central to the army could open up some doors for you. Target Priority+Stalkers+Warriors means you'll pretty much never miss a shot. You're just not really bringing enough to capitalize on that. Still something to look at. Szeras would be another decent choice despite not using him to the full capacity. He'll get your +1 RP back, and it's a bubble, so it can hop to the unit of Warriors, Destroyers, and Tomb Blades if they're near. Buff the unit on the ground and hope for T5. The BS bonus would be odd one with the Stalkers.

- With such an odd mix, you'd be fine with switching the 2nd Stalker out for a unit of Immortals. Immortals are great on smaller point CAD lists, since they aren't as dependent on synergy, so can operate on their own. Since you're running a CAD, both Gauss or Tesla would work, but I'd recommend Gauss to just have that extra pick up against Armor if needed. If you switched to Szeras, then you'd have a decent unit to receive the buff. Also, he has a 36" S8 Shot, so will fill the gap if you decided to drop the lone destroyer to shave points.

Not much, but all I got.

I like it how you are trying to power down a Necron list and go for something friendly however if I was I was raise a few points it would be based around what you may expect to come up against:

* Your Lychguard need a way to get into combat faster otherwise the faster lists will just keep you at a distance, or you'll spend most of your time marching at a gun line. Personally I would drop the Heavy Destroyers and buy those Lychguard a dedicated Night Scythe. This will allow you to deploy those slow moving Lychguard in a much more strategic manner (Its not like you are charging on turn 1 anyways) and the Nightscythe will probably be more effective than the Destroyers (also those Destroyers are just giving away First Blood).

* If you ditch the Destroyers, you then don't really need 2 Spyders or 2 Stalkers - if you have the models, I'd consider getting some faster units to try and help counter those pesky Eldar lists and to help with objectives. Another unit of Tomb Blades for example would be more survivable, and having 2 groups of 5 which place templates will do wonders for when you end up facing the like of Tyranids or Orks where your Gauss fire is just not going to get through enough models to save you from assault (they also wreak havoc on guard units and daemons). As such, I'd suggest combining your Scarabs to free up a slot for more Tomb Blades, and then pay for these by ditching the second Stalker. If you also ditch the second Spyder, you should have enough for a Cryptek with a Solar Staff to accompany those Lychguard and keep them alive.

* Finally, I love the Destroyer Lord, both the model and using it in games. As Akar has said however, you lack anything for it to naturally go with. This guy is designed to attack and you don't really have any fast-moving offensive units for him to accompany. If you want to keep it fun and friendly however, consider swapping him for someone like Orikan and put him with the Lychguard instead of the standard Crytek I suggest above (you could still put a normal Crytek with the warriors doe added survivability). This guy is cheaper than a tooled-up Destroyer Lord (more Lychguard perhaps?) but has that fun, random element about him essentially turning into a beast with C'Tan statlines. Alternatively Obyron allows for some further movement options or Zhandrekh for greater tactical adaptability.

These are opinions of course and it very much depends upon your local meta.

All advice is very strong and good.

My two cents is stuck up on the wording of your tactics. You say "10 warriors at status of BS10 equivalent other 10 at BS5"

The stalkers do not stack, so at best you get a +1 to units within 6". Meaning your warriors will be at BS5?

Well, I'd include a unit of 5 or 6 Wraiths led by the Destroyer Lord. This cc unit still works.
Lynchguard are too slow and can be avoided. Triarch Stalkers are hit and miss.
The units of Spyders and Scarabs don't really work on their own. If you want to take them, then in a Canoptek formation.

CAD Destroyers are not very effective because they are both missing the 4+ RP to stay survivable and the Extermination Protocols to become killy. They are mediocre at best outside of Decurions and you only have a few of them, limiting them even further. This applies even more to Heavy Destroyers who have very limited tactical roles in a list.1 Str9 Ap2 shot is very hard to find value, unless you're shooting the right thing, and usually, even then, you could shoot it more effectively with different units.
The Triarch Stalkers are very easy to kill, in any situation rendering them very hard to use to full effect, since they're usually dying in the first or second turn of the game. Even if yours were to survive, they would still not be as usefull since their buff bubble is not used to any great extend (buffing 10 warriors at best) and their shooting is lacking. (Heat Ray is good, but has a small range and the HGC is not enough)

The Lychguard with no delivery method will struggle to find themselves in combat. They might not even get in combat for an entire game, moving 6" a turn. It's very easy to outrun them and avoid them, and because of that they wouldn't even draw bullets. People will just ignore them, making them a points sink in your list. Either make them a threat by giving them a delivery mechanism (veil or nightscythe) or drop them.

Scarabs, being the only assault threat (and not actually a real threat) and being fast will draw fire. That would be almost fine in a Canoptek Harvest/Decurion situation where RP would make them somehow survivable, but in this case they will get slaughtered. Any decent opponent will make sure to remove them in the first turns, before Spyders spawn more and it will not take too many units focusing fire on them to remove them.

Spyders suffer just as much as the Lychguard. 6" movement per turn will mean you probably won't seem them in assault too much(although, arguably, they're not that great in asault either) and they have nothing else to threaten the enemy. They have absolutely no use in your list other than spawning Scarabs and if your scarabs die (which they are really prone to) they're rendered useless.

Honestly, your opponent would just need to shoot your Triarch Stalkers and scarabs dead the first turn (which is more than easy for most armies out there) and your list would just crumble.

Your Destroyer Lord has no unit to join, no delivery method. He's an assault beast looking to get in assault, but alone he will get shot dead. Give him a unit to join or go for another HQ like Zahndrek, like Akar suggested.

Generally, in CAD necrons (in my experience at least) the following choices shine:
Ghost Arks (obviously filled with warriors)
Lychstars with veil/Orikan
Destroyer Lords with Wraiths
Wraiths in general (since they don't mind the RP reduction)
Any kind of cryptek HQ with Warrior blobs (Szeras/Warrior blob, as Akar mentioned, even better when supported by Ghost Arks)


This list you've got here is weak(imo). It has no real answer to a lot of threats and absolutely 0 synergy, I can't imagine how it works as a whole. It looks like a random shopping list that just includes all the models you have/like with no vision of how it would work on the tabletop or any actual practice with it.

However, all those comments are made with a competitve setting in mind. It really depends on the power level of the other lists and your goals at this tournament. I'll give you the following advice. When list building, before including a unit think of how it would synergise with what you already included and what you would expect it to do in a game versus certain lists you'll probably face. Have a plan.

Thanks for all the replies and comments, all are good food of thought. The event I am joining looks like a fun and semi-competitive one, since all formations are banned, the missions are randomly rolled each game, one game per month. And most significantly, the organizers have announced that the only price of winning this "tournament" is the nickname "friends killer".

Looks like the Heavy Destroyers are bad in everyones eyes, I doubt its effectiveness too. I admit that not able to bring up the D-cult (a formation I used several times), will further limit their effetiveness, especially the one-shot problem is huge when it comes to armor penetration. However, HGC is only high-strength (S7/S8+) and AP2 shooting weapon in Necron arsenals, and maybe the only effective answer to MC or super models with T6 / T7 and Sv3+/2+, while the only good platform of this weapon is the Heavy Destroyer. By math, to stripe off one wound from a Riptide or Dreadknight would need 36 hits from Gauss Flayers (i.e. 18 warriors at 12inch, buffed by the joining D-Lord and Stalker), but only need 1.54 hits from a single H-Destroyer (so 3 models near a Stalker can reliably stripe off 2 wounds) at 36 inch afar, it is also threats to T4 multi wounds guys such as Mega Nobz, Paladins, Crisis Suit and Broadsides, etc. Anyway, I may try think of alternative to reliably deal with the MCs.

@Akar,
Thank you for all the ideas offered. Yes there is a typo , Scarabs are one of 5 bases, one of 3. I would consider combining them, a unit of 6 sounds more survivable. We are not using mostly low-profile, only two centre high-rise pre-set tournament terrains, instead, this event is like playing regular games where terrains are agreed by two players. So I am looking to grab high-rise ones for scarabs to "jump from cover to cover", hope to have enough time for the "scarab farm" to buffed their number to over 8 or even over 10.
Original plan of the list is have the D-Lord attached to a blob of warriors, and buffed by Stalkers to make every Gauss shot counts in order to get that valuable 6, while D-lord also provides combat anchors against enemy fast assualt units (just like in my Marine army I will likely have Lysander equivalent character added into Grav Centurions), and now I see that the Lychguard might be duplicated in the "guardian" role and I will review the use of them, you are right in which "guarding the gunline" is too conservative. Maybe squish in Overlord with Warscythe and Veil added into the Lychguard so as to have two "in your face" assault threats with scarabs.
And I just checked BRB WLs, sounds like Zahndrekh is better in buffing a gunline, very well. I think I'd take it.

@Sumilidon,
Thanks for the points you raised, I think I prefer teleport the Lychguards more but that is the same aim as your idea. I would consider taking them with a Veiled character.
I also like Tomb Blade, maybe I try to find points to add another unit of them, but the 2nd one of 4 man unit with Gauss?

@Klowny, @wuestenfux
Thanks for providing brief thoughts, "10 warriors at BS10 equivalent" is by joining the Dlord and gain PE, and standing near one of the Stalkers. I plan using a mini "Scarab Farms" alongside shooty Necrons, so bring up the Scarab and Spiders, is the farm that bad now? I might take into account using wratihs instead scarabs as assault units, though might be less killy for the points.

@necr0n
Thanks for the comment, I originally plan to use "British Gunline" formed by the warriors as the core, synergies are "rerolling 1s" and +1 BS, anti MC firepower provided by stalker themshelves and H-Destroyers. "Scarab Farm" is a bonus, to use swarm numbers to eat the scattered enemy when time is right and clear the MSU objective holders like 5 men Marines. You are right on the spiders, they are not going to assault aggressively, but to spawn scarab and repair the vehicles I have. May be it is happened to have two "synergies" squished into a single CAD made you feel that I have no plan? I admit it may feel lack dedication.
I will target the Stalkers first as well if I am fighting against a Necron forces, that is why I try to bring duplicate, and I don't think bubble wrapped (defintely by blocks of warriors, and Ghost Ark) covered (probably by Ghost Ark, which is high enough and large enough to block over 25% to gain 4+ cover, or by foot warriors to have 5+ intervening cover) and well deployed out of LoS of S8+ weaponarys of the enemy are "very easy to neutralize", AV13, so S6 does not work on it, S7 glances on 6s (i.e. by math it requires 2 full squad of missile Broadsides to exactly strip off the 3 hp it have), and that is before cover save being taken. The problem now concerned me is that whether the BS10 equivalent (will be "almost" whole-gunline wide if I take Zahndrekh instead of Dlord) worth the 250-270pts investment. Scarab Farms, well if they are really that squishy even with their numbers, I would consider minimize them or drop them all together for points to include Wraiths.

Neophyte2012 wrote:


@necr0n
Thanks for the comment, I originally plan to use "British Gunline" formed by the warriors as the core, synergies are "rerolling 1s" and +1 BS, anti MC firepower provided by stalker themshelves and H-Destroyers. "Scarab Farm" is a bonus, to use swarm numbers to eat the scattered enemy when time is right and clear the MSU objective holders like 5 men Marines. You are right on the spiders, they are not going to assault aggressively, but to spawn scarab and repair the vehicles I have. May be it is happened to have two "synergies" squished into a single CAD made you feel that I have no plan? I admit it may feel lack dedication.
I will target the Stalkers first as well if I am fighting against a Necron forces, that is why I try to bring duplicate, and I don't think bubble wrapped (defintely by blocks of warriors, and Ghost Ark) covered (probably by Ghost Ark, which is high enough and large enough to block over 25% to gain 4+ cover, or by foot warriors to have 5+ intervening cover) and well deployed out of LoS of S8+ weaponarys of the enemy are "very easy to neutralize", AV13, so S6 does not work on it, S7 glances on 6s (i.e. by math it requires 2 full squad of missile Broadsides to exactly strip off the 3 hp it have), and that is before cover save being taken. The problem now concerned me is that whether the BS10 equivalent (will be "almost" whole-gunline wide if I take Zahndrekh instead of Dlord) worth the 250-270pts investment. Scarab Farms, well if they are really that squishy even with their numbers, I would consider minimize them or drop them all together for points to include Wraiths.

If throwing a 180 points Destroyer Lord, with absolutely 0 shooting capabilities, who is a beast in combat, in a 130point 10man warrior unit with 24" Str4 Rapidfire weapons just so they can reroll "ones" (Which will grant you no more than 1 extra Str4 AP5 hit) is your idea of synergy, you've got it all wrong. The Destroyer Lord support is more expensive than the unit he's supposed to be supporting. It's the least ammount of efficiency capable of being achieved and you even like it. You're making his 180 worth combat-effectiveness completely wasted in a Warrior unit. There's really not enough people who actually want to assault a 10man warrior squad, willingly. It's just a tarpit. And shooting-wise, no matter how much you buff 10 Str4 AP5 hits, even if they all hit, they're still 10 Str4 AP5 hits. Capable of doing nothing. Even adding the Gauss rule, at best, they'll eat a single Hull point from a rhino. Or kill 1.67 Marines that do not have +1 T(Deathguard) or FNP.

If you wanna buff some squad with BS bubbles or PE, you gotta at least make sure they can put pain. Otherwise, you get no efficiency from throwing all the buffs on them. It's like paying Lib Conclave to buff 10 Tacticals with no upgrades with Divination. You can do it, you can call it synergy, but it's absolutely useless.

As for the anti-MC firepower. Your Heavy Destroyers and your Triarch Stalkers (especially your Triarch Stalkers) are really, really easy to kill. They're the only realistic threat your opponents are facing, so they're most probably going to get focused. I don't expect them to see more than 3 Turns in any game you play, because nothing else in the list is worth shooting at. Here's some interesting math about your "Anti MC Firepower":

If all your 3 Heavy Destroyers are in the +1 BS bubble, everything you have is in range of everything you want. Nothing in your army is killed for 3 turns (and that's really ridiculous, anyone can blow up your stalkers in less than 2 rounds) and they get 3 turns of pure shooting, with no cover saves, no range problems this is the result (versus the most common MC's/GMC's you're going to face, except the Flying MC's that are just going to stomp you, because you have no Anti-Air)

They will cause 4.45~ unsaved wounds to a Wraithknight, ultimately failing to kill it in 3 rounds of uncovered, free shooting. They will cause 4.5~ unsaved wounds to a Stormsurge (just reducing to half wounds, meaning your "anti mc firepower" is not enough to kill a single stormsurge in an entire game). They will cause 5.95~ unsaved wounds to a Riptide. (They will kill a single Riptide in 3 Turns)

And, let me remind you I assumed all synergy to be in effect. I gave +1 BS to Destroyers. I assumed they all survive for 3 Turns straight. I assumed they were all in range (even the melta) from Turn 1 and I also assumed no enemy is getting cover. The most ridiculous thing I assumed was that they even get to survive fully for 3 Turns to actually pull of that shooting, which is, as I already said, impossible.

Now let me elaborate on why it's impossible to survive 3 Turns with 2 AV13 Walkers. You seem to be misunderstanding how Cover Saves work for Vehicles.

I will target the Stalkers first as well if I am fighting against a Necron forces, that is why I try to bring duplicate, and I don't think bubble wrapped (defintely by blocks of warriors, and Ghost Ark) covered (probably by Ghost Ark, which is high enough and large enough to block over 25% to gain 4+ cover, or by foot warriors to have 5+ intervening cover) and well deployed out of LoS of S8+ weaponarys of the enemy are "very easy to neutralize"

Intervening cover does not work on vehicles. There is absolutely no way in the game that you can make Necron Warriors give your Triarch Stalker a cover save. The only way a Triarch Stalker can claim a cover save is by hiding 25% of the model and the model is huge, at the very least. You would need to block a lot of it with the Ghost Ark (placing your Ghost Ark in an awkward position) AND more terrain cover to claim 5+. The 4+ that you mention, I don't know where it's coming from, because there's no way for you to claim that unless if it's cover 25% by RUINS. There's hardly any ruins tall enough to actually cover a Triarch Stalker so that's mostly impossible. The main weakness of the Triarch Stalker is not being able to jink. More than 50% of all Marine players use Drop Pods either filled with Grav or Melta. You can't claim cover saves versus Drop Pods unless if you actually jink. A Triarch stalker cannot jink and therefore, it's impossible (or, possible but super rare to actually be able to hide 25% of the huge triarch stalker from all directions) to get a cover save versus Drop Pods. Chances are, versus Marines your Triarch Stalkers are dead Turn one to Melta/Grav Drop Pods. Versus TAU, a single Drop pod with 4 Destroyer missiles can equally take them out with a single shot. As well as Wraithknights with Dshots, any Grav Bike squad (that you have no way how to deal with) etc. What I'm trying to say, is you have to reread cover saves for vehicles, your Triarch Stalkers are way more vulnerable than you think.

The Claw Array is way more gimmicky than you believe it to be. You have to be in Base Contact with the vehicle that is damaged to actually use it. But, at the same time you want your Spyder to make new Scarabs, so you also have to be 6" of the Scarabs. Also, it really just gives you a single Hullpoint on a vehicle that's really, really easy to destroy completely. I'm not going to tell you more about it, try it yourself in a game. You might never get the chance to even think of using it.

The two Spyders at 105 points only spawning 2 Scarab bases per turn (and that's if they're in range and the Scarabs are obviously not entirely dead) is largely a points sink. At 105 points you could get 8 more warriors for your warrior squad.

The scarabs themselves are too weak to actually eat Marine squads like you want them too. The moment they are visible, they're dying to bolter fire. An 81 point squad of 3 Eldar Jetbikes will kill 4.5 scarbs per turn (even if they are in cover) from 48" range. Two squads, which is the minimum troops choice for an eldar player, at 162points will make 9 scarab bases disappear in a single turn, from 48" even if they are in cover.

For that Spyder-Scarab combo, you're paying 265 points for two spyders that are trying, but not reliably spawning 2 more bases per turn and doing nothing else really and 8 bases, that might become more, but are so susceptible to fire, that they cannot actually WIN any assault they join, but can merely tarpit something weak, if your opponent is not careful. The Scarab-farm combo is one of the weakest combos in our codex as of the new codex. It was only strong in 5th edition and even then it was not "reliable" just a gimick. And you, obviously, have to stick to it to make it worth. (all Heavy Support choices filled with Spyders plus a lot of Scarabs already on deployment to minimise the risk of getting blown off entirely) And we also had the Nightfighting mechanics to make them harder to kill. And even then, it was not reliable.

And, no, to answer your question. I don't think you have "two synergies" in your list. I think you have absolutely 0. You're wasting your Melee DestroyerLord in a weak MSU warrior squad and you're paying for the worst combo of the book and not even giving your spyders another reason to exist. You're also buying Stalkers and not having enough boots on the ground to make their buff worth. You're going for too much and you have nothing. Just because you play with buffs and combos doesn't mean they're efficient or there's any kind of synergy in the list.

EDIT: And I even forgot to comment on the Lychguard who are "protecting you warriors" by counter assault. So you're paying 150 points, just in case your opponents wants to assault your warriors. What if you play versus TAU who have no assault threat? What are you going to do with 5 Lychguard that move 6" a turn? Move them arround your deployment zone for fun?

Necr0n is the real "friend killer" here...

Ravemastaj wrote:
Necr0n is the real "friend killer" here...

Haha, to be fair, his view and ideas feels like "go win the top tournament, or go home", so tatically speaking some of his productive ideas like "Ghost Arks, Lychstars and Dlord w Wraiths" are good food of thought and worth taken into account, and is likely to compete for the title "friends killer" in my incoming event.

Well, for the way he makes his presentation, you also got that right description here.

Anyway, there will be resuffle of my list.