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Castellans of the Imperium. This detachment allows troops that are slain, on the result of a 5+, to be placed in to ongoing reserves.

Can a unit with deep strike (Tempestus Scions, for example) utilize their deep strike rule when RETURNING from Reserves the following turn, or are they forced to walk on from the table edge?

Personally, I am of the opinion they may utilize their rule and deep strike, however I would love to hear others opinions.

Based on an almost identical situation, and the following FAQ:

Q: In regard to Tyranid Formations like Endless Swarms, Skyblight Swarms and Sporefields, can units that are placed in Ongoing Reserve through the respawn mechanics choose to arrive via Deep Strike if they have the Deep Strike rule and, by extension, Flyers/Flying Monstrous Creatures that leave combat airspace?
A: No. They arrive from Reserve as described in Moving On From Reserve.

I'm inclined to say they must walk on.

To muddy the waters somewhat, from the Eldar Craftworlds FAQ:

"Q: Do Swooping Hawks that start the game on the table and
Skyleap on the first/subsequent turns re-enter the game via
Deep Strike?
A: Yes – they are placed into Ongoing Reserves and will
arrive by Deep Strike in your following turn."

I think for RAI purposes it depends on the background manner by which they are arriving from Ongoing Reserves.

In the case of Castellans of the Imperium it's really to represent, so far as I understand, a constant stream of troops "flocking to the front lines" so for RAI purposes I'd argue if the originally unit arrived via Deep Strike then thematically the replacement unit should too.

RAW? Well we've got two similar but contradicting FAQ scenarios/answers.

I can't picture any Scions "walking on the table", either. I agree, it's a grey area and it seems to be possible either way.

They are two dfft situations. The Tyranid units die and a new unit is produced, which is the same as how Castellens works.
The Eldar unit does not die and is removed from the table, and the same unit comes back.

Two dfft situations. Obviously there are similarities, but the Tyranid FAQ is a direct parallel, while the Eldar one isn't.

Right, right.

The ruling only affects Scions, as well, as I believe they're the only troops that have deep strike by default.

However, in theory, this would impact drop pods I'm the troop slot as dedicated transports as well.

I can't imagine a drop pod "walking on" the table, either.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Right, right.

The ruling only affects Scions, as well, as I believe they're the only troops that have deep strike by default.

However, in theory, this would impact drop pods I'm the troop slot as dedicated transports as well.

I can't imagine a drop pod "walking on" the table, either.

If you count the drop pod as part of the unit, then it would need to die in order to recreate the squad that it carried. So, if your opponent left your drop pod on the table, your unit wouldn't respawn. That doesn't make sense; the drop pod is a dedicated transport not a part of the unit it's transporting.

But the drop pod is purchased as a dedicated transport and will have the troop role therefore when it is destroyed can be rolled for to come back on from reserve.

A dedicated transport, as rawne said, becomes the unit type of it's unit. For example, if you took 5 Marines in a drop pod as troops, both would be Troops. If you kill the marines, they can come back as 5 marines without a transport. If you kill the pod, it can come back without marines.

The issue here is how things with deep strike would work, as there's very few instances where it could happen, but it's important to determine how it would go. If we're going to rule they "walk" on, it's difficult to also justify a DROP POD "walking on", IMO.

Indeed, dedicated transports and their troops "respawn" separately. This, however, brings up another interesting rules issue. When a vehicle is wrecked, the vehicle MUST be left on the table, counting as terrain. However, if it then respawns, the model that needs to reappear on the table is still on the table as scenery.

There's no RAW that dictates how to handle this situation. Normally, in non-tournament play, I'd just allow the player to remove the model and let it respawn, but I'm curious what rules lawyering can make happen here.

If they have another one of the vehicles, use that to bring on to the table while leaving the original a wreck. Supposedly it's a new unit, not the same unit - they just figured that you'd use the models of the destroyed unit and didn't think about transports (which might suggest that they didn't thinks transports shouldn't respawn, but there's no real indication of that being RAI and certainly isn't RAW)

Drop Pods "must be held in DSR" according to their special rules. Since models cannot be put into Reserve except during deployment, I'm not sure that it's legal for a new Drop Pod unit to be created mid-game. It absolutely cannot walk on, because it has a special rule that necessitates DSR.
In this case, I'd say the most plausible way to play is to let it Deep Strike mid-game, as if from Ongoing Reserves.

It's legal due to the formation.

The only things affected are:

Drop Pods
Tempestus Scions

I am of the impression and feeling that as they move to reserves, they may use the deep strike USR.

For more info, here's both rules.

Ongoing Reserves (p136):
If a unit enters Reserve part way through the game, such as a Flyer leaving the battlefield, this is referred to as entering Ongoing Reserves. Units in Ongoing Reserve always re-enter play at the start of their controlling player's following turn, but otherwise follow the normal rules for Reserves.

Deep Strike:
In order for a unit to be able to Deep Strike, all models in the unit must have the Deep Strike special rule and the unit must start the game in Reserve (p135). When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve)...

Not so much Drop Pods may use the deep strike USR, but must use the Deep Strike USR. If we are told to put a troop unit in Reserves during the game because of the formation rules and the drop pod is counting as a troop unit, then it must go into Deep Strike Reserve, which would actually be Deep Strike Ongoing Reserve according to Ongoing Reserves rules, and would come out automatically the next turn. The formation rules would override the normal rule about being placed in Reserves only in deployment, as an advanced rule overriding a basic rule.

I agree with the Doctor.

I look forward to more opinions.

Deepstrike rules state that units deepstriking must be declared to be deepstriking at the beginning of the game.

When units die and come back with the formation, the wording it uses states that it's a new, identical unit. That unit, since it is a new unit, could not, and has not, met the requirement of declaring deepstrike at the beginning of the game since it didn't exist at that time. Therefore, it cannot deepstrike.

As a side question... if it's a new identical unit, does that unit count as being part of any detachment?

That's my take on all this.

Counterpoint, if the unit is identical, and the original unit DID declare it is using deepstrike...?

Also, yes, the rule states "This new unit counts as being part of the original detachment, and you may roll a d6 as described above for this unit and victory points are awarded as normal."

 chrispy1991 wrote:
Deepstrike rules state that units deepstriking must be declared to be deepstriking at the beginning of the game.

When units die and come back with the formation, the wording it uses states that it's a new, identical unit. That unit, since it is a new unit, could not, and has not, met the requirement of declaring deepstrike at the beginning of the game since it didn't exist at that time. Therefore, it cannot deepstrike.

As a side question... if it's a new identical unit, does that unit count as being part of any detachment?

That's my take on all this.

Formation rules for respawning the drop pod - telling you that you get a new one - and drop pod rules saying it must come on via deep strike are a case of advanced rules trumping the basic rule you mention.

The finalized basic rulebook FAQ says that 'units created from a formation rule' cannot Deepstrike unless specifically stated otherwise.

Since the Castellans detachment rules use the word 'new', I'd say that that ruling applies, and that the contents of the Drop Pod, as well as the Scions, would walk on.

Technically, it'd also apply to the Drop Pod, but it looks like the Drop Pod has specific rules that disallow it from doing anything but deepstriking.

Terminal wrote:
The finalized basic rulebook FAQ says that 'units created from a formation rule' cannot Deepstrike unless specifically stated otherwise.

Since the Castellans detachment rules use the word 'new', I'd say that that ruling applies, and that the contents of the Drop Pod, as well as the Scions, would walk on.

Technically, it'd also apply to the Drop Pod, but it looks like the Drop Pod has specific rules that disallow it from doing anything but deepstriking.

That's because any unit that cannot normally move once it is deployed from Reserves is automatically destroyed. It needs rules that allow to not just be a block at the back of the table or an insta-kill for your opponent.

Just to add this to the mix there is the scions formation and as soon as a unit is destroyed it is placed into ongoing reserves and must arrive via deapstrike. So there is units that can do it.

yes but that rule specifically states that they have to go back into deep strike reserve again

Much over muchness on the droppod rules. The rules says the unit goes into ongoing reserve and arrives via deepstrike reserve.

Well can scouts outflank when they come back in?

Also if a speeder storm AND a unit of scouts were killed and BOTH make their 5+ can the scouts re-enter the board in the speeder?

 Icelord wrote:
Well can scouts outflank when they come back in?

Normally, no. Units cannot Outflank from Ongoing Reserves. Outflank itself specifically restricts this. However, there is the possibility that a Codex rule could override that, if it states they can.

 Icelord wrote:
Also if a speeder storm AND a unit of scouts were killed and BOTH make their 5+ can the scouts re-enter the board in the speeder?

So long as we don't put too many internal differences between Reserves and Ongoing Reserves.

However, it should be noted that the only time a unit can Embark on to a Transport outside of the Movement Phase is during Deployment. Even in Combined Reserve Units, it states this is "during deployment".

Heya all, had to pitch in.

what about when Drop pod suffers a deep strike mishap and you roll 4-6 and it is placed in ongoing reserves? This is the exact same case as with the Castellans of the imperium detachment when you manage to roll that 5+ for a drop pod.

So if you rule it so that the drop pod is destroyed when arriving from ongoing reserves because it cannot deep strike out of there, that would mean that when mishaping a drop pod it's a death sentence on 1 & 4-6 rolls. Sounds a bit harsh.

Personally I would let drop pods and scions to arrive via deep strike.

This question also touches Eldar swooping hawks as they can also enter ongoing reserves via Skyleap. Usually people deep strike them onto the board again.

Cheerios!

Great points! Thanks!