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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





As the title says how do people use these guys best. Im doing death guard so they will have mark of nurgle already. Should they stay back and shoot or is it better to march up the table
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




March up the the table always. Otherwise you're paying 70 points for a Lascannon and Plasma Cannon.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in de
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Cult of Destruction gives you the firepower of 6 oblits for the costs of 3 + Warpsmith. I'd always march them up, they are snp and have powerfists, so why not throw them into some melee against the right opponent? Combined with a warpsmith they can bring down a lot of stuff with their shooting and in melee, even Necron Death Stars.
Before Traitor Legions I liked to bring them with a sorcerer with Balestar of Mannon for prescience, would still be possible with a small Crimson Slaughter CAD, but I don't think it's necessary anymore. Simply bring even more Oblits...
   
Made in gb
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot




Having played against Obliterators a ton, this is an opponent's perspective:

-Some players are over-cautious with Oblits, keeping them ultra safe, but less effective. Use them aggressively!
-Try to keep two different types of targets in range: the one you want to use their high str/AP weapons on in that turn and the one you want to use their dakka on. That will render the "disadvantage" of not using the same gun twice less impactful.
-Do NOT wade them into CC too Willy-nilly. They have few attacks, and while very safe in CC, they are unlikely to get free again before the game ends. Therefore, also watch out for the opponent trying to tarpit you with troops, etc., for the same reason.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Ok thanks guys. What do you think is better 1 unit of 3 or 3 units of 1. Im tempted with the 3 single model units as i can spread the threat with them then
   
Made in de
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Depends. Bringing single Oblits can work as distraction for your opponent, who has to concentrate more firepower on each than he would on a combined group. You'd also be able to use more different weapons.
In a Cult of destruction though, I'd bring a group of three and 2 single oblits or mutilators. The latter can distract while the former bring massive firepower to the table.
   
Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin





Out of my Mind

You can take them as Troops for Iron Warriors if I read the rule correctly. So if you're taking a small CAD to get specific units, these won't choke up those spots in addition to being ObSec.


Current Armies
40k: 15k of Unplayable Necrons
(I miss 7th!)
30k: Imperial Fists
(project for 2025)

 
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitor with Xenos Alliances






Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Cult of Destruction gives you the firepower of 6 oblits for the costs of 3 + Warpsmith. I'd always march them up, they are snp and have powerfists, so why not throw them into some melee against the right opponent? Combined with a warpsmith they can bring down a lot of stuff with their shooting and in melee, even Necron Death Stars.
Before Traitor Legions I liked to bring them with a sorcerer with Balestar of Mannon for prescience, would still be possible with a small Crimson Slaughter CAD, but I don't think it's necessary anymore. Simply bring even more Oblits...

I don't think the cult of destruction is worth it the majority of the time...
A worthwhile Warpsmith is about the price of 2 Obliterators.
3 Obliterators + 1 Warpsmith = 5 Obliterators in points for 6 Obliterators worth of shooting...
But while the cult of destruction doubles their fire power, RAW it only allows you to shoot a single enemy with the whole formation...
The break even point is taking 4 or more Obliterators, but as you take more Obliterators you are more predisposed to wasted shots... 6 Obliterators worth of shooting is already at that point and thus taking a 4th to justify the cost is simultaneously a waste... except in Apocalypse sized games or high superheavy metas.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/01/28 23:49:15


 
   
Made in nl
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch



Netherlands

 aka_mythos wrote:
Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Cult of Destruction gives you the firepower of 6 oblits for the costs of 3 + Warpsmith. I'd always march them up, they are snp and have powerfists, so why not throw them into some melee against the right opponent? Combined with a warpsmith they can bring down a lot of stuff with their shooting and in melee, even Necron Death Stars.
Before Traitor Legions I liked to bring them with a sorcerer with Balestar of Mannon for prescience, would still be possible with a small Crimson Slaughter CAD, but I don't think it's necessary anymore. Simply bring even more Oblits...

I don't think the cult of destruction is worth it the majority of the time...
A worthwhile Warpsmith is about the price of 2 Obliterators.
3 Obliterators + 1 Warpsmith = 5 Obliterators in points for 6 Obliterators worth of shooting...
But while the cult of destruction doubles their fire power, RAW it only allows you to shoot a single enemy with the whole formation...
The break even point is taking 4 or more Obliterators, but as you take more Obliterators you are more predisposed to wasted shots... 6 Obliterators worth of shooting is already at that point and thus taking a 4th to justify the cost is simultaneously a waste... except in Apocalypse sized games or high superheavy metas.


TS Cult of destruction allows you to take Astral Grimoire on the Warpsmith. Then you have a multi purpose bomb, with jump pack movement, double shooting with all weapons available, and 4 powerfists to wreak havok in hth.

14000
15000
4000 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I like the tzeentch cult. A bit more expensive sure, and the lack of nurgle hurts. But mix in psyker support, and any blessing gets you a 3++. And get the right spell and ignore cover and Line of sight.

DFTT 
   
Made in de
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





 aka_mythos wrote:
Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Cult of Destruction gives you the firepower of 6 oblits for the costs of 3 + Warpsmith. I'd always march them up, they are snp and have powerfists, so why not throw them into some melee against the right opponent? Combined with a warpsmith they can bring down a lot of stuff with their shooting and in melee, even Necron Death Stars.
Before Traitor Legions I liked to bring them with a sorcerer with Balestar of Mannon for prescience, would still be possible with a small Crimson Slaughter CAD, but I don't think it's necessary anymore. Simply bring even more Oblits...

I don't think the cult of destruction is worth it the majority of the time...
A worthwhile Warpsmith is about the price of 2 Obliterators.
3 Obliterators + 1 Warpsmith = 5 Obliterators in points for 6 Obliterators worth of shooting...
But while the cult of destruction doubles their fire power, RAW it only allows you to shoot a single enemy with the whole formation...
The break even point is taking 4 or more Obliterators, but as you take more Obliterators you are more predisposed to wasted shots... 6 Obliterators worth of shooting is already at that point and thus taking a 4th to justify the cost is simultaneously a waste... except in Apocalypse sized games or high superheavy metas.


I'm playing against Necrons most of the time... you NEVER have too much firepower against Necrons . Also, without prescience, having to change weapons and cover saves I'd say the firepower is good, for CSM even very good, but no overkill in 7th edition.
At the same time I don't consider the Warpsmith only as a tax as he's still a nice addition that turns your oblits into a mini-deathstar capable of range and melee combat.
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Obliterators aren't amazing. They're simply ok. I prefer a cad of iron warriors with obliterator troops when i need to bring a voidshield gnerator.
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitor with Xenos Alliances






 koooaei wrote:
Obliterators aren't amazing. They're simply ok. I prefer a cad of iron warriors with obliterator troops when i need to bring a voidshield gnerator.
The IW Obliterators are simply more flexible and gain survivability through having such a large number of single model units. The Nurgle ones however are the way to go for Deathstar building.

I just really don't like the Warpsmith or the cult of destruction. In a DG or Nurgle army you can do more with a smaller investment. A paired squad of 2 Obliterators with a Reactor and any other IC will give you more for fewer points.

Obliterators aren't great in and unto themselves but their versatility and the different shenanigans GW has allowed us to pull with them do make them worthwhile.
   
Made in au
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




Eye of Terror

obliterators are ok it all depends what target you want to shoot

My large scale warhammer/kings of war Blog of the Brass and Rot legions:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/666677.page#8211472 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





If you're running them as part of a Death Guard Detachment, try and keep them in close, so you can use more weapon options, but try and keep them no closer than 18" to benefit from their 'Cloud of Flies' Command benefit.
   
Made in us
Sinister Chaos Marine





Cloud of Flies is good for DG Oblits, but I wouldn't stay away from things because of it. Having T5, 2 wounds, 2+/5++ with FnP that rerolls 1's is plenty durable enough to get into Multimelta or melta range, not to mention charging to finish off other squads and such. Cover is alright for DG Oblits, but hardly necessary.
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





The thing is not to think of the Smith as a Tax, but as a cheaper option to access the Oblits without troops AND an HQ. Ive always built my lists around 6 solo Obliterators unlocking two CADS with cultist tax to do so.

Mr. Smith frees me of the Cultists, and he is a pretty decent fighter too.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Nightlord1987 wrote:
The thing is not to think of the Smith as a Tax, but as a cheaper option to access the Oblits without troops AND an HQ. Ive always built my lists around 6 solo Obliterators unlocking two CADS with cultist tax to do so.

Mr. Smith frees me of the Cultists, and he is a pretty decent fighter too.


I don't see him as a tax either, like you said, not only does he allow you to access them in a cheaper way, but could also be looked at as an upgrade allowing them to shoot or fight twice in a round. Plus his ability to curse an enemy vehicle or reduce the cover save of some terrain can be a huge boon. Personally I've always like Warpsmith's and have some success with them
   
Made in au
Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch





 Nightlord1987 wrote:
The thing is not to think of the Smith as a Tax, but as a cheaper option to access the Oblits without troops AND an HQ. Ive always built my lists around 6 solo Obliterators unlocking two CADS with cultist tax to do so.

Mr. Smith frees me of the Cultists, and he is a pretty decent fighter too.


You're still better off with an ML3 IW Sorc and as many Oblits as you like in MSU for exactly the same price as a baseline warpsmith. In fact, a fairly decent option would be an ML3 sorc and 3 oblits as an IW allied detatchment if you weren't running CSM as your primary. The cult is fairly underwhelming in most CSM armies unfortunately, though I still think they add some much needed fire support without giving up a fairly scary melee presence in a WE army. 4x str 9 ap2 attacks each on the charge is no joke for something that's meant to be a gun platform.

As to how to use them in general, you're going to be looking to fire the lascannons turn 1 and then it's pretty much assault cannon T2/4/6 with T3 and 5 being either twin linked plasma, lascannons or some form of melta depending on how far away they are. Assault cannons are almost always the best gun for the situation. If you're reduced to firing the plasma cannon at any stage because you fired the lascannons last turn and now everything else is out of range, something has either gone horribly wrong or horribly right. I'd almost always start them off in cover as close to the line as possible and then walk forward hitting the best target you can reach. Lascannons for the inital volley to try and pop a tank or damage a MC, then if you're within 12", twin linked plasma guns, if outside 12" but inside 24", assault cannons, then it's time to try and get in close to juggle twin plas with the AC.

Never forget that you've got both a heavy flamer and a twin linked flamer if someone is silly enough to bunch up in cover at close range. Also don't be afraid to dive into CC if you're running a 3 man unit, especially against tanks (but not walkers, you're deathly allergic to str10 ap2), you're fairly sturdy against pretty much everything that's not a dedicated assault unit and plasma/ass cannon/flamer and then assaulting can usuallly thin out the numbers of many tarpits that aren't a conscipt blob for you to do a decent amount of damage without being stuck there forever. I wouldn't advise it as 1 man squads though as they don't have the number of attacks to break free, not the weight of fire to thin out numbers before the charge. In a perfect world, you'd be shooting and charging in your turn, winning combat in your enemies turn and then finding another juicy target to repeat the process on your turn.

The addition of a sorc can really make them something special as many of their guns really shine with ignores cover. The mandatory warpsmith (in a Cult) can do a budget version of this during deployment with shatter defences, but it's usually not enough to really have a huge impact in my experience. Having said that, the addition of a sorc to almost any squad can make them something special, so take that with a grain of salt.

I have always run mine as MoT (grav/plas are far more common around here than anything else and they're the only time MoT is better than MoN) but you don't have much of a choice these days if you're running a legion force. I know I've basically said the same thing as others here, but that's mainy due to there only being 1 way to run Oblits to their full potential IMHO, and that's to be quite agressive with them. One other observation that I didn't see mentioned is that using them for their meltas is probably not the best since you are probably running a warband and you've got termicide for that, but when push comes to shove, a multimelta or twin linked melta gun can be just what the doctor ordered at times, and just pointing twin linked plas / melta skywards against FMC's / fliers (respectively) can yield amusing results when within rapidfire / melta range.

 Peregrine wrote:
What, you don't like rolling dice to see how many dice you roll? Why are you such an anti-dice bigot?
 
   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





I've had great results with 2 units of 3 Obliterators in Dreadclaws, with a 3rd Dreadclaw bought with CSMs. I put a Sorcerer in with each Oblit unit, or sometimes a Lord. They're great at dropping and shooting a backfield vulnerable target turn 1, then reboarding turn 2 and zooming over for a turn 3 shoot/assault.

Or another possibility is using them in a Black Legion Speartip detachment for turn 1 reserves (it is possible to fit in the Oracles of Eternity formation with Fateweaver and Lord of Change as well) for rerolling reserve rolls.

As for Iron Warriors or not, Objective Secured is pretty good for Oblits in a CAD, but I've had so many strength 8 deaths I prefer plain CSM CAD to get them MoN. Abaddon makes a great HQ for them with the PE bubble vs Space Marines....hoping they make that PE Armies of the Imperium someday soon!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and using them with Huron Blackheart and Cypher, that's a good way to get them into the enemy's face as well.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/31 22:20:51


 
   
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Fully-charged Electropriest



UK

Do your dreadclaws eat many of them?

 
   
 
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