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Davor wrote:

 troa wrote:
I'd be okay with it occasionally. If you were using him regularly, I'd much prefer you have the actual model, but if not oh well.

I am not saying you are wrong because that is how you feel. While I don't agree with this at all, I don't understand either. I would like to understand your way of thinking. I mean money and time is not easy for everyone. If someone prefers the Lord of Change in this case over Magnus, why can't he use it all the time? Just trying to understand your point of view.

I appreciate that, and I appreciate you being quite civil. A rarity on the net!

I get the money thing, and the time thing, absolutely. It took me forever to paint my army, and I still have a ways to go before I can always have a fully painted army.

I do enjoy the visual aspect of the game, however. I enjoy a game where everything is painted much more than where half the things aren't (one of my main motivators for what to paint is what I want to use that I don't have painted). I also enjoy games where things are modeled accurately more. I'd liken it to enjoying good graphics in a video game. That doesn't mean I dislike people who proxy, or don't paint, or anything else. Even in this case I'd mainly have issues if it kept being switched back and forth. If it was primarily the LOC or Magnus, and rarely if ever the other, I would never care. Even if they were swapped game to game, I probably wouldn't care, unless I reallllly didn't like the person for other reasons. I'd absolutely prefer to have it be 100% WYSIWYG and non-proxied. But especially with a friendly group, I'm not going to let that influence whether I play, or what I think of the other person. Now, if they were a WAAC player, I'd care a lot more, but I'd also just be annoyed by them in general.

 troa wrote:

Davor wrote:

 troa wrote:
I'd be okay with it occasionally. If you were using him regularly, I'd much prefer you have the actual model, but if not oh well.

I am not saying you are wrong because that is how you feel. While I don't agree with this at all, I don't understand either. I would like to understand your way of thinking. I mean money and time is not easy for everyone. If someone prefers the Lord of Change in this case over Magnus, why can't he use it all the time? Just trying to understand your point of view.

I appreciate that, and I appreciate you being quite civil. A rarity on the net!

I get the money thing, and the time thing, absolutely. It took me forever to paint my army, and I still have a ways to go before I can always have a fully painted army.

I do enjoy the visual aspect of the game, however. I enjoy a game where everything is painted much more than where half the things aren't (one of my main motivators for what to paint is what I want to use that I don't have painted). I also enjoy games where things are modeled accurately more. I'd liken it to enjoying good graphics in a video game. That doesn't mean I dislike people who proxy, or don't paint, or anything else. Even in this case I'd mainly have issues if it kept being switched back and forth. If it was primarily the LOC or Magnus, and rarely if ever the other, I would never care. Even if they were swapped game to game, I probably wouldn't care, unless I reallllly didn't like the person for other reasons. I'd absolutely prefer to have it be 100% WYSIWYG and non-proxied. But especially with a friendly group, I'm not going to let that influence whether I play, or what I think of the other person. Now, if they were a WAAC player, I'd care a lot more, but I'd also just be annoyed by them in general.

Thank you very much for your reply. I can understand where you are coming from now.

 Insectum7 wrote:
You could just say it's not Magnus but some other totally amped up Daemon Prince that's a "counts-as". (there are obviously other Greater Daemon/Daemon Prince "champions" in the Galaxy).

That's the plan. Since I don't run T-sons, I'd be using him as an apted up LoC. I've started calling him 'Sungam the Magenta' as a play on Magnus's name.

I'll either run the Rehati formation with 3 CSM DPs, or in a T-son CAD with the minimum 2x 10 Tz Cultists and Sorcerer. Fluff-wise they would simply be the mortal followers of Sungam.
As a Tetrad player, the Rehati formation should be easy to adapt to, especially with those awesome spell familiars.
I am a bit apprehensive about not getting any Greater rewards though.

On a related note did the AoS book have multiple LoC warscrolls ?
I find it hard to believe that they are going to release such a big model without giving it some buffs or additional rules that make it the next cool thing to buy.

 Galef wrote:

But for this topic, I want to discuss using the new LoC kit as a "counts as" Magnus.
Assuming I get the LoC kit (which is seeming most likely) and make it into a LoC, how palatable would it be to occasionally use it as Magnus?
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They look like they will be similar in size.

For anyone complaining on costs, is there really that big of a difference between a $115 model and a $130 model? I mean, $15 wouldn't cover the drinks when I go out to eat.

I would not have an issue with it. Just be VERY clear before we play what the hell it is!

Edit: Also, don't have a second one and use it as a LoC in the same game, though. No, no!

 kronk wrote:
Also, don't have a second one and use it as a LoC in the same game, though. No, no!

Agreed. I will only every own 1 massive model like this (either Magnus OR an LoC)
If for some reason I just have to have Magnus AND an LoC in the same list, I'll be using my current, 60mm base LoC. So it will be abundantly clear which one is the more powerful one.

As for cost, you are correct that $15 really isn't a big difference when talking about models that are already over $100.
What I am most concerned with is "value". The Magnus model only comes with Magnus bits, I believe 3 head variants and a sword instead of the Glaive thing. I would also require an additional investment of a bird head (most likely get the High Elf phoenix head from eBay)
The LoC kit on the other hand has loads of extras, some of which I can use to update my current LoC/Kiaros model (although it will stay on the 60mm)

So in this instance, the "value" of the LoC kit is much higher than that of the Magnus kit. The only reason I am not 100% decided on this is because no one would have an issue with an LoC using a converted Magnus, whereas some might have an issue with an LoC proxy as Magnus.
Currently I am 90% in favor of the LoC, 10% in favor of getting Magnus.

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So, I'm back to 50/50 on this.
I found a High Elf Phoenix head on eBay for less than $5 and since the new LoC is about the same size, It would be easy to covert. I simply wouldn't have the extra bits to update my current Tz DP/Kairos, which would be fine as I like him as is

Modeling magnus without the chest armour and extending the neck downward would be a fairly simply conversion that would make him obviously a LoC, but since it's Magnus's model, he would be perfectly legit for tourney use. I could even magnetize the armour on the rest of him so that there is further clarity on which rules I am using. With armour = Magnus, Without = LoC

This is looking like it might be a coin toss. Once I get the money for it, I may not order either and just impulse buy whichever one is available at my LGS.

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 Galef wrote:
This is looking like it might be a coin toss. Once I get the money for it, I may not order either and just impulse buy whichever one is available at my LGS.

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So you are letting Fate decide then eh? What happens if both of them are there? Worse what will happen if non are there? They what will you do? Order one in? If so which one?

For me, the nipple horns turn me off. Yes I know they don't need to be put on. But I just got my Lord of Change mini. Oh man it's so sweat. Then again, as Kronk said magnus is sweet as well.

How about this. What colour do you prefer to paint? Blues or Reds? How about making a Fateweaver? Adding in pinks purples and what not? So what colour do you prefer to paint or are in the mood to paint?

Magnus is a big amazing model.
Frankly I would not care if you made it possible to swap heads for other uses.
Just seeing the model in person would be worth the price of admission.

Here is a question that I just thought off. What would be easier for you to transport to what ever you game?

I was playing around with MS Paint and resizing the 2 models according to bases size (which GW confirms is the same size base)
It looks like the shoulder height of both models is really, really close. Darn near the same height. The main differences are that Magnus is beefier and his head is upright, whereas the LoC/FW has a slopping neck. The wings seem to make a bit of height difference though, with Magnus's right wing being taller.

Transport wise, I am think the LoC model will be easier, although I may magnetize the wings for storage either way, so that's a moot point.
Even though I ordered the Phoenix head, I am leaning back towards the LoC model. As long as the plan holds, I'll get the LoC model, assemble it as a LoC but paint it with plenty of magenta & turquoise like Magnus.
Then I'll magnetize the Kairos heads to go on my DP, which will now use the phoenix head when being a DP.

It may be the best of both worlds. I'll probably use the Oracles formation often and I just can't bring myself to have FW be any bigger than the fincast model. He is only T5 and a weakling in combat after all. He should NOT be as big as the new LoC. So by using the FW bits to add onto my current 60mm Tzeentch MC model, I can still make him WYSIWYG with the new aesthetic without giving in to GW's scale creep.
BTW, this is my current "whatever I need him to be" Tz MC model:


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I am not sure if you play Age of Sigmar or not but I believe Karios is just as strong as the Lord of Change. That is why they are the same size now. So who knows what will happen in 40K. Maybe he will take some steroids or drink the same place Merry and Pippen were and will grow a wee bit.

Kidding aside, I am sure Karios will have different rules the next time in what ever codex he is in.