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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 21:46:47
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
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AdeptSister wrote:So there are significant issues in our vetting process? Why did they choose these seven countries? How does it help (in total)?
Because they thought they had legal standing because of an issue Obama used to more closely vet those seven countries citizens. It comes back to Gulliani's statement about how Trump asked him to make outlawing Muslims legal when he was on the campaign trail. They tried to make religious tests fit within the law. Evidently, it doesn't, based on the the rulings of all the courts that have looked at it thus far.
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Help me, Rhonda. HA! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 21:58:52
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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Gordon Shumway wrote:
Not sure where you were insulted there, if you think you were, please PM me, because that wasn't my intent. I do not think they have any sort of demands because they have no coherent consistent argument (if you know Milo, you understand this). Their goal is to sew dissent. Why? Why for anything? Money. Milo gets paid for his Internet forum and his talks because he gets a rise out of people. So did Honey BooBoo. I regard him and his thoughts in the same way I regard hers.
On the I insult thing, I probably just misinterpreted something. My bad, no worries.
Fair enough on the Milo stuff, I thought you were implying through analogy that he was making some sort of demands or something. I watched a couple of his speeches since he has "blown up" and I've heard him say numerous distasteful and offensive stuff but never any kind of demands, per se.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 22:00:18
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf
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Maybe the plan is just to make it incredibly unappealing for people to move to America so they get less immigration?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 22:01:15
Subject: Re:US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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Co'tor Shas wrote: jasper76 wrote: Lord of Deeds wrote:One thing I am not looking forward too is Sunday as I am worried that I won't be able to avoid seeing protests and political statements galore while trying to enjoy the Falcons pasting the Patriots.  (Look already breaking Grandma's heart  )
I do get a bit tired of various groups trying to take advantage of the chance to get wider media exposure due to coverage of unrelated and supposedly apolitical events.
I'm sure more pious lectures from celebrity millionaires will work out great for the Democrats
I mean, speeches from celebrity millionaires seemed to work out pretty well for the republicans.
Yep. The Dems need to learn and learn quickly that pious celebs are detracting from rather than adding to their support.
That said, I am actually looking forward to Lady Gaga's performance because (a) she can sing her ass off (did anyone hear her rendition of the star-spangled banner was it last Super Bowl?...best I've ever heard) and (b) there will almost certainly be cheap cringe thrills to consume. A guilty pleasure of mine.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/03 22:04:33
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 22:03:14
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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AdeptSister wrote:So there are significant issues in our vetting process? Why did they choose these seven countries? How does it help (in total)?
The order imposes a temporary, 90-day ban on people entering the U.S. from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and Yemen. These are countries either torn apart by jihadist violence or under the control of hostile, jihadist governments. Sec of State and Homeland Sec may, on a case-by-case basis,may issue waivers to those whom are otherwise blocked. Last I heard earlier the week, over 900 waivers were issued... AFAIK, there is an indefinite hold on admission of Syrian refugees to the United States “until such time as I have determined that sufficient changes have been made to the USRAP to ensure that admission of Syrian refugees is consistent with the national interest.” Syrian War is a hellhole right now that makes vetting anyone near impossible. As for why those 7 countries, they were identified by previous administration where the usual vetting process are challenged, which the current administration chose to use for this EO.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/03 22:04:33
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 22:06:07
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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One issue that came up in the campaign was that Trump claimed our "vetters" did not adequately examine social media and social media networks, specifically of the female San Bernadine shooter, IIRC.
I'm unsure of the merits of the claim.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/03 22:06:57
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 22:06:40
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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jasper76 wrote: Gordon Shumway wrote:
Not sure where you were insulted there, if you think you were, please PM me, because that wasn't my intent. I do not think they have any sort of demands because they have no coherent consistent argument (if you know Milo, you understand this). Their goal is to sew dissent. Why? Why for anything? Money. Milo gets paid for his Internet forum and his talks because he gets a rise out of people. So did Honey BooBoo. I regard him and his thoughts in the same way I regard hers.
On the I insult thing, I probably just misinterpreted something. My bad, no worries.
Fair enough on the Milo stuff, I thought you were implying through analogy that he was making some sort of demands or something. I watched a couple of his speeches since he has "blown up" and I've heard him say numerous distasteful and offensive stuff but never any kind of demands, per se.
Well, there's the demand that he be allowed to act like tool on any platform he chooses and publicly name and shame private individuals who never sought out conflict with him, such as when he used a speaking invitation at a university to toss up the name and picture of a transgender attending student and directly attack them and went on to state how he'd "almost" bang them. That sort of thing goes beyond free speech, and is why he gets the reactions he gets, and is typical of the type of behavior which got him banned from Twitter, which he then complained about being a free speech issue...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/03 22:07:23
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 22:09:27
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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Vaktathi wrote: jasper76 wrote: Gordon Shumway wrote:
Not sure where you were insulted there, if you think you were, please PM me, because that wasn't my intent. I do not think they have any sort of demands because they have no coherent consistent argument (if you know Milo, you understand this). Their goal is to sew dissent. Why? Why for anything? Money. Milo gets paid for his Internet forum and his talks because he gets a rise out of people. So did Honey BooBoo. I regard him and his thoughts in the same way I regard hers.
On the I insult thing, I probably just misinterpreted something. My bad, no worries.
Fair enough on the Milo stuff, I thought you were implying through analogy that he was making some sort of demands or something. I watched a couple of his speeches since he has "blown up" and I've heard him say numerous distasteful and offensive stuff but never any kind of demands, per se.
Well, there's the demand that he be allowed to act like tool on any platform he chooses and publicly name and shame private individuals who never sought out conflict with him, such as when he used a speaking invitation at a university to toss up the name and picture of a transgender attending student and directly attack them and went on to state how he'd "almost" bang them. That sort of thing goes beyond free speech, and is why he gets the reactions he gets, and is typical of the type of behavior which got him banned from Twitter, which he then complained about being a free speech issue...
So far as I can tell, he is being invited to campuses and paid for by conservative student groups.
It's definitely crappy to use your podium to attack individual students, though I'm not familiar with the details here.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 22:12:16
Subject: Re:US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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jasper76 wrote: Co'tor Shas wrote: jasper76 wrote: Lord of Deeds wrote:One thing I am not looking forward too is Sunday as I am worried that I won't be able to avoid seeing protests and political statements galore while trying to enjoy the Falcons pasting the Patriots.  (Look already breaking Grandma's heart  )
I do get a bit tired of various groups trying to take advantage of the chance to get wider media exposure due to coverage of unrelated and supposedly apolitical events.
I'm sure more pious lectures from celebrity millionaires will work out great for the Democrats
I mean, speeches from celebrity millionaires seemed to work out pretty well for the republicans.
Yep. The Dems need to learn and learn quickly that pious celebs are detracting from rather than adding to their support.
That said, I am actually looking forward to Lady Gaga's performance because (a) she can sing her ass off (did anyone hear her rendition of the star-spangled banner was it last Super Bowl?...best I've ever heard) and (b) there will almost certainly be cheap cringe thrills to consume. A guilty pleasure of mine.
That was more referring to the fact they elected a celebrity millionaire.
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Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 22:15:54
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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jasper76 wrote: Vaktathi wrote: jasper76 wrote: Gordon Shumway wrote:
Not sure where you were insulted there, if you think you were, please PM me, because that wasn't my intent. I do not think they have any sort of demands because they have no coherent consistent argument (if you know Milo, you understand this). Their goal is to sew dissent. Why? Why for anything? Money. Milo gets paid for his Internet forum and his talks because he gets a rise out of people. So did Honey BooBoo. I regard him and his thoughts in the same way I regard hers.
On the I insult thing, I probably just misinterpreted something. My bad, no worries.
Fair enough on the Milo stuff, I thought you were implying through analogy that he was making some sort of demands or something. I watched a couple of his speeches since he has "blown up" and I've heard him say numerous distasteful and offensive stuff but never any kind of demands, per se.
Well, there's the demand that he be allowed to act like tool on any platform he chooses and publicly name and shame private individuals who never sought out conflict with him, such as when he used a speaking invitation at a university to toss up the name and picture of a transgender attending student and directly attack them and went on to state how he'd "almost" bang them. That sort of thing goes beyond free speech, and is why he gets the reactions he gets, and is typical of the type of behavior which got him banned from Twitter, which he then complained about being a free speech issue...
So far as I can tell, he is being invited to campuses and paid for by conservative student groups.
It's definitely crappy to use your podium to attack individual students, though I'm not familiar with the details here.
It was at UW Milwaukee, where he was invited by the campus conservatives, and has continued to be invited by campus conservatives knowing he does this kinds of things since then. Tthe footage of the entire event is on his youtube channel.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 22:19:37
Subject: Re:US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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Co'tor Shas wrote: jasper76 wrote: Co'tor Shas wrote: jasper76 wrote: Lord of Deeds wrote:One thing I am not looking forward too is Sunday as I am worried that I won't be able to avoid seeing protests and political statements galore while trying to enjoy the Falcons pasting the Patriots.  (Look already breaking Grandma's heart  )
I do get a bit tired of various groups trying to take advantage of the chance to get wider media exposure due to coverage of unrelated and supposedly apolitical events.
I'm sure more pious lectures from celebrity millionaires will work out great for the Democrats
I mean, speeches from celebrity millionaires seemed to work out pretty well for the republicans.
Yep. The Dems need to learn and learn quickly that pious celebs are detracting from rather than adding to their support.
That said, I am actually looking forward to Lady Gaga's performance because (a) she can sing her ass off (did anyone hear her rendition of the star-spangled banner was it last Super Bowl?...best I've ever heard) and (b) there will almost certainly be cheap cringe thrills to consume. A guilty pleasure of mine.
That was more referring to the fact they elected a celebrity millionaire.
I gotcha....yeah, Trump the Anomaly. At the same time, I really do think preachy celebs worked against the Democrats "big league",.and continuing to deploy them is a losing strategy.
That said, I'm all for everyone speaking their minds...I just think some self-awareness is called for. They're not helping the cause anymore. Maybe they just haven't found their anti-Trump yet. Automatically Appended Next Post: @Vakathi: I'll check it out a d give you my thoughts.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/03 22:22:13
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 22:27:32
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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AdeptSister wrote:So there are significant issues in our vetting process? Why did they choose these seven countries? How does it help (in total)?
There are not significant issues (the US has the most extensive vetting process in the world), the countries chosen were done so because said countries are associated with terrorism by Trump's supporters (with varying degrees of validity) while also omitting several countries Trump has business interests in, and it does not actually help since there was no issue with refugee terrorism in the first place.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/03 22:28:10
Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 22:30:43
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
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Vaktathi wrote: jasper76 wrote: Vaktathi wrote: jasper76 wrote: Gordon Shumway wrote:
Not sure where you were insulted there, if you think you were, please PM me, because that wasn't my intent. I do not think they have any sort of demands because they have no coherent consistent argument (if you know Milo, you understand this). Their goal is to sew dissent. Why? Why for anything? Money. Milo gets paid for his Internet forum and his talks because he gets a rise out of people. So did Honey BooBoo. I regard him and his thoughts in the same way I regard hers.
On the I insult thing, I probably just misinterpreted something. My bad, no worries.
Fair enough on the Milo stuff, I thought you were implying through analogy that he was making some sort of demands or something. I watched a couple of his speeches since he has "blown up" and I've heard him say numerous distasteful and offensive stuff but never any kind of demands, per se.
Well, there's the demand that he be allowed to act like tool on any platform he chooses and publicly name and shame private individuals who never sought out conflict with him, such as when he used a speaking invitation at a university to toss up the name and picture of a transgender attending student and directly attack them and went on to state how he'd "almost" bang them. That sort of thing goes beyond free speech, and is why he gets the reactions he gets, and is typical of the type of behavior which got him banned from Twitter, which he then complained about being a free speech issue...
So far as I can tell, he is being invited to campuses and paid for by conservative student groups.
It's definitely crappy to use your podium to attack individual students, though I'm not familiar with the details here.
It was at UW Milwaukee, where he was invited by the campus conservatives, and has continued to be invited by campus conservatives knowing he does this kinds of things since then. Tthe footage of the entire event is on his youtube channel.
And the "SJW liberal students" rise towards the bait and lash out the way students or young people do, make headlines, get notoriety, get clicks, get money. He has no real convictions, I'm not sure the conservative students realize this. They think he is speaking to them. He doesn't care about them or their causes, which may be legitimate. He cares about himself. Fine. Good on him for finding a way to make money, bad on people that let him by causing outrage. The "falsely yelling fire in a crowded theater" exception to free speech really does seem to be something to pin on him though.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/03 22:33:10
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 22:34:47
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Building a blood in water scent
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NinthMusketeer wrote: AdeptSister wrote:So there are significant issues in our vetting process? Why did they choose these seven countries? How does it help (in total)?
There are not significant issues (the US has the most extensive vetting process in the world), the countries chosen were done so because said countries are associated with terrorism by Trump's supporters (with varying degrees of validity) while also omitting several countries Trump has business interests in, and it does not actually help since there was no issue with refugee terrorism in the first place.
There is an issue of perception of refugee terrorism in the US, and this Muslim ban addresses those fears though.
Remember, my feelings on a subject are just as important as your facts on that same subject.
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We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 22:45:51
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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Vaktathi wrote:
It was at UW Milwaukee, where he was invited by the campus conservatives, and has continued to be invited by campus conservatives knowing he does this kinds of things since then. Tthe footage of the entire event is on his youtube channel.
I saw the bit. It was in bad taste. However, the student had made themself a public figure...it's clear from his screen capture that the student was giving a televised interview, and though I did not see the interview, the context implied that he was an activist on the whole transgender bathroom issue. Is the joke Milo cracked really that much different than making fun of say Bill O'Really for being unattractive because you disagree with his politics? Or Trumps ridiculous hairstyle?
Is the left really willing to embrace or condone violence, destruction, and mayhem over something like this?
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/02/03 22:50:04
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 22:50:57
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Building a blood in water scent
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As was already explained in the previous thread, it's not "the left" that is doing this. It is a minority within a minority within a minority.
You're falling for outrage clickbait.
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We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 22:53:44
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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jasper76 wrote:
Is the left really willing to embrace or condone violence, destruction, and mayhem over something like this?
Is the right really willing to hyper-politicize stupidity by screaming at the top of its lungs "fall in line or you're just as bad as them"?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/03 22:53:53
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 22:56:38
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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jasper76 wrote: Vaktathi wrote:
It was at UW Milwaukee, where he was invited by the campus conservatives, and has continued to be invited by campus conservatives knowing he does this kinds of things since then. Tthe footage of the entire event is on his youtube channel.
I saw the bit. It was in bad taste. However, the student had made themself a public figure...it's clear from his screen capture that the student was giving a televised interview, and though I did not see the interview, the context implied that he was an activist on the whole transgender bathroom issue. Is the joke Milo cracked really that much different than making fun of say Bill O'Really for being unattractive because you disagree with his politics? Or Trumps ridiculous hairstyle?
Is the left really willing to embrace violence, destruction, and maybe over something like this?
Ultimately, it's rankly inappropriate behavior from an invited speaker on a campus. I don't think "the left" is embracing violence and destruction any more than "the right" is on the whole, particularly when the people actually engaged in the violence are generally reported as being outside elements not part of the main protest group. If we're going to accuse the left of embracing violence over something like this, well, again, did we forget that there was literally an armed takeover of a federal facility by extreme right wing elements just a year ago that resulted in a fatality after a car chase and federal charges as opposed to some public disorder arrests?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 22:57:04
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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feeder wrote:As was already explained in the previous thread, it's not "the left" that is doing this. It is a minority within a minority within a minority.
You're falling for outrage clickbait.
Thanks for your opinion. If the thuggish behavior we are witnessing were isolated and condemned, I might be more conciliatory on this point, but it's part of a pattern, and I see more support for it on the left than condemnation.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/03 22:58:09
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 22:58:57
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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jasper76 wrote: feeder wrote:As was already explained in the previous thread, it's not "the left" that is doing this. It is a minority within a minority within a minority.
You're falling for outrage clickbait.
Thanks for your opinion. If the thuggish behavior we see from the elect were isolated and condemned, I might be more conciliatory on this point, but it's part of a pattern.
By that logic every talking head who says "denounce the racists or your racist too" is completely correct and everyone on the right is racist cause the right spends a lot of time apologizing for racists.
The party of personal responsibility, alive and well 2017.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 22:59:00
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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LordofHats wrote: jasper76 wrote:
Is the left really willing to embrace or condone violence, destruction, and mayhem over something like this?
Is the right really willing to hyper-politicize stupidity by screaming at the top of its lungs "fall in line or you're just as bad as them"?
Who is doing this?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 23:00:30
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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Vaktathi wrote: did we forget that there was literally an armed takeover of a federal facility by extreme right wing elements just a year ago that resulted in a fatality after a car chase and federal charges as opposed to some public disorder arrests?
What I didn't forget was the elected Republicans who supported them, and therefore all Republicans support the violent overthrow of the United States Federal Government.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 23:00:49
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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Vaktathi wrote:
Ultimately, it's rankly inappropriate behavior from an invited speaker on a campus. I don't think "the left" is embracing violence and destruction any more than "the right" is on the whole, particularly when the people actually engaged in the violence are generally reported as being outside elements not part of the main protest group. If we're going to accuse the left of embracing violence over something like this, well, again, did we forget that there was literally an armed takeover of a federal facility by extreme right wing elements just a year ago that resulted in a fatality after a car chase and federal charges as opposed to some public disorder arrests?
I believe this kind of behavior should be condemned wherever it is found, and I think the fact that the thugs in Oregon got away with what they did is a travesty of justice.
I sincerely hope you are correct that this kind of behavior is not becoming mainstream on the left.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/03 23:01:48
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 23:01:02
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Building a blood in water scent
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jasper76 wrote: feeder wrote:As was already explained in the previous thread, it's not "the left" that is doing this. It is a minority within a minority within a minority.
You're falling for outrage clickbait.
Thanks for your opinion. If the thuggish behavior we are witnessing were isolated and condemned, I might be more conciliatory on this point, but it's part of a pattern, and I see more support for it on the left than condemnation.
It is isolated and condemned. It's dozens of people at a rally of thousands. Not many people on "the left" are lining up to give these guys high-fives.
Outrage clickbait is certainly trying to paint this as some kind of epidemic, though.
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We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 23:02:08
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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jasper76 wrote: feeder wrote:As was already explained in the previous thread, it's not "the left" that is doing this. It is a minority within a minority within a minority.
You're falling for outrage clickbait.
Thanks for your opinion. If the thuggish behavior we see from the elect were isolated and condemned, I might be more conciliatory on this point, but it's part of a pattern.
Sure there' a pattern, but it's an explainable one. What happened at Berkeley appears to match very closely from what happened in Portland, the main protest group did it's thing and the "feth everything just because" crowd used it as cover to trash the "snobby liberal" hangout places
jasper76 wrote: Vaktathi wrote:
Ultimately, it's rankly inappropriate behavior from an invited speaker on a campus. I don't think "the left" is embracing violence and destruction any more than "the right" is on the whole, particularly when the people actually engaged in the violence are generally reported as being outside elements not part of the main protest group. If we're going to accuse the left of embracing violence over something like this, well, again, did we forget that there was literally an armed takeover of a federal facility by extreme right wing elements just a year ago that resulted in a fatality after a car chase and federal charges as opposed to some public disorder arrests?
I believe this kind of behavior should be condemned wherever it is found, and I think the fact that the thugs in Oregon got away with what they did is a travesty of justice.
I sincerely hope you are correct that this kind of behavior is not becoming mainstream on the left.
I don't think there's evidence that this kind of behavior is mainstream on either side. We're seeing handfuls of idiots out of thousands or tens of thousands of people being made out like they're the whole. When all the stuff in Portland went down after the election, there was 5 digits worth of protestors and only a few dozen people causing issues.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/03 23:04:43
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 23:04:21
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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feeder wrote:
It is isolated and condemned. It's dozens of people at a rally of thousands. Not many people on "the left" are lining up to give these guys high-fives.
Outrage clickbait is certainly trying to paint this as some kind of epidemic, though.
I hope your correct. My social media feeds are full of lefties, and most who comment are hailing UC Berkeley as some kind of moral and political victory. And I've see this expressed on dakka as well, although admittedly nothing like a majority of folk.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 23:05:35
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
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jasper76 wrote: LordofHats wrote: jasper76 wrote:
Is the left really willing to embrace or condone violence, destruction, and mayhem over something like this?
Is the right really willing to hyper-politicize stupidity by screaming at the top of its lungs "fall in line or you're just as bad as them"?
Who is doing this?
As a liberal, I don't condone it. I think it is immature. Like children react when they have no other way to express their displeasure. As a liberal I am not among them. Don't pin it on liberals. Too broad of a brush and sort of a childish way to frame it. Were these liberals, sure. Does that describe liberals? Nope. Just like I don't use Yayaplishbrush to describe conservatives. Too easy and cheap and lacking in thought as to what makes them disagree with me.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 23:06:06
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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Vaktathi wrote: jasper76 wrote: feeder wrote:As was already explained in the previous thread, it's not "the left" that is doing this. It is a minority within a minority within a minority.
You're falling for outrage clickbait.
Thanks for your opinion. If the thuggish behavior we see from the elect were isolated and condemned, I might be more conciliatory on this point, but it's part of a pattern.
Sure there' a pattern, but it's an explainable one. What happened at Berkeley appears to match very closely from what happened in Portland, the main protest group did it's thing and the "feth everything just because" crowd used it as cover to trash the "snobby liberal" hangout places
jasper76 wrote: Vaktathi wrote:
Ultimately, it's rankly inappropriate behavior from an invited speaker on a campus. I don't think "the left" is embracing violence and destruction any more than "the right" is on the whole, particularly when the people actually engaged in the violence are generally reported as being outside elements not part of the main protest group. If we're going to accuse the left of embracing violence over something like this, well, again, did we forget that there was literally an armed takeover of a federal facility by extreme right wing elements just a year ago that resulted in a fatality after a car chase and federal charges as opposed to some public disorder arrests?
I believe this kind of behavior should be condemned wherever it is found, and I think the fact that the thugs in Oregon got away with what they did is a travesty of justice.
I sincerely hope you are correct that this kind of behavior is not becoming mainstream on the left.
I don't think there's evidence that this kind of behavior is mainstream on either side. We're seeing handfuls of idiots out of thousands or tens of thousands of people being made out like they're the whole. When all the stuff in Portland went down after the election, there was 5 digits worth of protestors and only a few dozen people causing issues.
Seems to fit the horseshoe theory. (Thanks Shadow Captain Edithae for introducing me this theory before the thread was locked)
I sincerely hope that you're right that these actions and attitudes are not becoming mainstream anywhere.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/03 23:09:27
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 23:12:15
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Building a blood in water scent
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jasper76 wrote: feeder wrote:
It is isolated and condemned. It's dozens of people at a rally of thousands. Not many people on "the left" are lining up to give these guys high-fives.
Outrage clickbait is certainly trying to paint this as some kind of epidemic, though.
I hope your correct. My social media feeds are full of lefties, and most who comment are hailing UC Berkeley as some kind of moral and political victory. And I've see this expressed on dakka as well, although admittedly nothing like a majority of folk.
I've seen no one celebrating the vandalism and hooliganism here. It's not okay when some gakhead is coming to your school speak gak out his gakhole, it's not okay when 1/5th of the country elects a narcissistic clownshow president, and it's not okay even when your hockey team loses the Stanley Cup in game 7.
Shutting up Milo (peaceably) is something I can get behind, though. If karma exists that gakhead is getting cancer of the larynx.
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We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/03 23:12:40
Subject: US Politics: 2017 Edition
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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Gordon Shumway wrote:
As a liberal, I don't condone it. I think it is immature. Like children react when they have no other way to express their displeasure. As a liberal I am not among them. Don't pin it on liberals. Too broad of a brush and sort of a childish way to frame it. Were these liberals, sure. Does that describe liberals? Nope. Just like I don't use Yayaplishbrush to describe conservatives. Too easy and cheap and lacking in thought as to what makes them disagree with me.
Point taken. I was will heretofore refer to it as a "trend on the left" rather than just "the left". I won't pretend like its not going on. I am as a liberal as well and I don't want these kinds of actions and attitudes taking over, lest we become the very thing we're supposed to stand against.
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