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And you then 'prove' your claim that Clinton's foundation and Trump's ties to Russia are the same, by talking about fast & furious, and the IRS scandal, and some random thing about Iran. This is not how conversation works.
No seb... you were keeping score by cherry picking.
I call Hillary her first name to distinguish from her husband. (which clinton???).
Yuo missed my point. Clinton and Trump were just used as examples. Go look at the name my note was attached to - to former AG Lynch. You called her AG Loretta, it was strange.
Dreadclaw69 wrote: Is it correct that Sessions denied contact with Russians when asked whether he had discussed the Trump campaign “with Russian government officials?
Senator Franken asked Sessions about “a continuing exchange of information during the campaign between Trump surrogates and intermediaries for the Russian government.” Sessions response was: “I’m not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I did not have communications with Russians, and I’m unable to comment on it.”
If so then that makes this more complex than he just spoke with the Russian Ambassador.
It isn't complex. Sessions lied. If he wanted to say he had no contact with Russia in his role in the Trump campaign, he would have said "I did not have communications with Russians in my role in the Trump campaign." He didn't add that qualifier because he didn't want to invite questions on about the conversations he did have. So instead he lied, and said he had no conversations at all.
It's an obvious gotcha game where the accusations are bereft of context.
He didn't lie. Not even close to perjuring himself.
During the confirmation hearing Franken asked Session the following:
CNN has just published a story and I'm telling you this about a story that has just been published, I'm not expecting you to know whether it's true or not, but CNN just published a story, alleging that the intelligence community provided documents to the president-elect last week that included information that quote "Russian operatives claimed to have compromising personal and financial information about Mr. Trump."
These documents also allegedly say quote "there was a continuing exchange of information during the campaign between Trump surrogates and intermediaries for the Russian government."
Again I'm telling you this is just coming out so, you know... but, if it's true it's obviously extremely serious. And if there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russians in the course of this campaign, what will you do?"
Notice that last four words of that whole spiel... there's your answer as to what question Franken was driving at...
Thus, Session responded:
"I'm not aware of any of those activities," he responded. He added... "I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I did not have communications with the Russians."
Put it all together, it's plain as day Session was answering the "what will you do?" about the " continuing exchange of information during the campaign between Trump surrogates and intermediaries for the Russian government."
Seriously, watch the youtube video of Session's confirmation hearing.
Vice President Mike Pence routinely used a private email account to conduct public business as governor of Indiana, at times discussing sensitive matters and homeland security issues.
Emails released to The Indianapolis Star, part of the USA TODAY Network, in response to a public records request show Pence communicated via his personal AOL account with top advisers on topics ranging from security gates at the governor’s residence to the state’s response to terror attacks across the globe. In one email, Pence’s top state homeland security adviser relayed an update from the FBI regarding the arrests of several men on federal terror-related charges.
Cybersecurity experts say the emails raise concerns about whether such sensitive information was adequately protected from hackers, given that personal accounts like Pence's are typically less secure than government email accounts. In fact, Pence's personal account was hacked last summer.
Furthermore, advocates for open government expressed concerns about transparency because personal emails aren't immediately captured on state servers that are searched in response to public records requests.
More awkward...
More to the point...AOL? Seriously? Did we just vote people into office that still use AOL? For real real, not play play?
EDIT:
[Billymays]But Wait, There's More![/Billymays]
"New EPA head told Congress he never used personal email for government business. But it turns out he did."
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/03 06:18:44
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
whembly wrote: No seb... you were keeping score by cherry picking.
What? How am I cherry picking by taking the comparison between reaction to the Clinton Foundation with the reaction to the Trump/Russia thing. How in the feth is it cherry picking to not start listing a random collection of accusations (some valid, some ridiculous) that were made against Obama while he was president?
I mean, I also didn't spend time mentioning the massacre at Sandy Creek, am I being unfair to Native Americans?
It's not meant to be disrespectful...
It never occurred to me it could be intended as disrespectful or could be seen as such. I just thought it was very strange. I mean, just say the words 'Attorney General Jeff'. It sounds silly, doesn't it?
It's an obvious gotcha game where the accusations are bereft of context.
He didn't lie. Not even close to perjuring himself.
The only way he didn't lie is if we pretend "I did not have communications with Russians" can't be assumed to mean he didn't have communications with Russians. As I already explained, if Sessions had wanted to draw a line between conversations with Russia in his role as a senator, and conversations he might have as a member of the Trump campaign, he could have simply said 'I did not have communications with Russians relating to my work with the Trump administration'. But he didn't do that, because he didn't want questions asked about the meetings he had with the Russian ambassador. Whether this is because there was something genuinely suspect in his meetings with the ambassador, or because he was conscious of hiding anything that might lead to further questions is unknown. What's known is that something caused him to lie and not disclose the two meetings he had with a Russian official.
Put it all together, it's plain as day Session was answering the "what will you do?" about the " continuing exchange of information during the campaign between Trump surrogates and intermediaries for the Russian government."
So you're honest to God, hand on your heart, standing there saying that a person who has a meeting with the Russian ambassador and then says they didn't have communications with Russians isn't lying.
Is that what this has come to?
Gee, where were you in the last 8 years?
I've been here, watching you post 'the cover up is worse than the crime' every single time some minor, random discrepancy in the Benghazi investigation got you seeing some grand conspiracy.
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Vaktathi wrote: More to the point...AOL? Seriously? Did we just vote people into office that still use AOL? For real real, not play play?
It's probably worse than having your steak well done with ketchup.
I look forward to the FBI investigations in to Pence and Pruitt over these shocking breaches of information security that left the US as vulnerable as a new born babe. I hope Mr Comey keeps us updated with daily briefings.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/03 07:01:22
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Sessions was economical "avec le verite" as the British would say.
He could have declared his meetings with the Russian Ambassador at the hearing and been in the clear. Why did he feel the need to avoid mentioning them?
Is Sessions the fourth Team Trump member to have links to the Russian government?
Just Tony wrote: And here's a though: how many of you know someone who moved into a new tax bracket that was now bringing home LESS than they were when they got their raise? THAT is the sort of thing that should never happen, and with a graduated tax system, it happens far more often than it should.
I do taxes for a living and I can say that this is a very rare thing. In the vast majority of cases, you are better off overall by earning more money. The only time you aren't are the rare occasions when you just clip a bracket. And you can't just look at take home pay, but the overall picture of post-tax income.
Just Tony, that's complete bs. Income taxes do not work that way. That just shows ignorance on your part.
All income below $9,225 is taxed 10%.
All income between $9,226 and $37,450 is taxed 15%, while all income below $9,225 is still taxed 10%. Repeat for higher brackets. It is not possible for getting a raise to lower your income, due to the way that income tax works.
Unless somehow getting a raise lowers benefits/welfare.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/03/03 13:07:17
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
I am sure we can all hold our breath waiting for Republicans to call for investigations into these two men using personal email for government and secure information.
That's a lot of crickets....
Also getting into the child of a politician's divorce (which typically get nasty) is super classy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/03 14:38:29
Kilkrazy wrote: Sessions was economical "avec le verite" as the British would say.
He could have declared his meetings with the Russian Ambassador at the hearing and been in the clear. Why did he feel the need to avoid mentioning them?
The counter-argument is that he was being asked about meetings specifically related to the campaign, not to government work in general.
Senator Sessions' so-called scandal is just the latest item in the Democrat's agenda to hinder President Trump and the Republicans. It's already fizzling out and will be a non-story by this time next week.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/03 14:38:01
whembly wrote: During the confirmation hearing Franken asked Session the following:
CNN has just published a story and I'm telling you this about a story that has just been published, I'm not expecting you to know whether it's true or not, but CNN just published a story, alleging that the intelligence community provided documents to the president-elect last week that included information that quote "Russian operatives claimed to have compromising personal and financial information about Mr. Trump."
These documents also allegedly say quote "there was a continuing exchange of information during the campaign between Trump surrogates and intermediaries for the Russian government."
Again I'm telling you this is just coming out so, you know... but, if it's true it's obviously extremely serious. And if there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russians in the course of this campaign, what will you do?"
Notice that last four words of that whole spiel... there's your answer as to what question Franken was driving at...
Thus, Session responded:
"I'm not aware of any of those activities," he responded. He added... "I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I did not have communications with the Russians."
Put it all together, it's plain as day Session was answering the "what will you do?" about the " continuing exchange of information during the campaign between Trump surrogates and intermediaries for the Russian government."
Seriously, watch the youtube video of Session's confirmation hearing.
Sessions? Do you mean Jeff? Franken? Do you mean Al?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/03/03 14:51:49
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
I find it really funny that some time yesterday Whembly referred to all this stuff as "McCarthyism" and this morning the Russians are refering to it as "McCarthyism".
Not a "witch hunt" and not "Bear baiting" and not "Red Sacre" or "Containment 2.0" or anything else; but "McCarthyism".
Wierd.
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jmurph wrote: I am sure we can all hold our breath waiting for Republicans to call for investigations into these two men using personal email for government and secure information.
That's a lot of crickets....
I was watching CNN last night, attempting to watch their special miniseries "The history of Comedy" (or maybe it was the history of standup)... anyhow, they had a "breaking news" segment instead of what I wanted to watch. During this "breaking news" (which wasn't really anything new, I don't think) segment, they had a couple Republican types on there, some campaign management types for various people from the 16 elections, etc. What stood out to me is that both sides were saying "Investigate!"
Obviously, those who were on the Democrat side were saying that with a more extreme reason, while the Republicans were more like, "look, we should investigate to clear the air, and let the American people what's really going on"
I do think that what needs to happen is a large investigation into cabinet ties with Russia. It needs to be complete/thorough, which, I doubt these things really are, and it then needs to be appropriately handled. By that I mean overall findings need to be made public, prosecution brought if/where warranted, etc. When even some of the Republicans are now acknowledging Russian interference in our elections, we need to find out to what extent and who was involved. But, I am not personally going to sit here and say that Sessions needs to resign, be fired, or convicted right now. We simply don't know enough and I think that recusing himself is the first step to a proper investigation. If he's cleared then he's cleared, but I will be hella pissed if he's cleared and 5-10 years down the road some new gak surfaces that was hid today.
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Easy E wrote: I find it really funny that some time yesterday Whembly referred to all this stuff as "McCarthyism" and this morning the Russians are refering to it as "McCarthyism".
Not a "witch hunt" and not "Bear baiting" and not "Red Sacre" or "Containment 2.0" or anything else; but "McCarthyism".
Wierd.
Maybe Whembly is actually a Russian ambassador, or gov't. spokesperson?????
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/03 15:24:57
Trump's EPA proposal cuts funding for climate change, pollution programs.
The EPA program for cutting emissions of greenhouse gases faces a cut of 70 percent.
'Trump last month signed an executive order calling for construction of the wall, a signature promise of his presidential campaign, which would be financed using "existing funds and resources." The Department of Homeland Security has only found $20 million in existing funds to put toward construction of a wall on the United States' border with Mexico, according to a document obtained by Reuters.' - The Hill
Apparently the wall will be 8" high and built with...Legos?
'Trump last month signed an executive order calling for construction of the wall, a signature promise of his presidential campaign, which would be financed using "existing funds and resources." The Department of Homeland Security has only found $20 million in existing funds to put toward construction of a wall on the United States' border with Mexico, according to a document obtained by Reuters.' - The Hill
Apparently the wall will be 8" high and built with...Legos?
More like cardboard. You seen the price of Lego recently?
Easy E wrote: I find it really funny that some time yesterday Whembly referred to all this stuff as "McCarthyism" and this morning the Russians are refering to it as "McCarthyism".
Not a "witch hunt" and not "Bear baiting" and not "Red Sacre" or "Containment 2.0" or anything else; but "McCarthyism".
Wierd.
That isn't weird. It's one of the obvious terms to bring up in relation to scaremongering about sinister Russian, along the ones you mentioned.
jmurph wrote: I am sure we can all hold our breath waiting for Republicans to call for investigations into these two men using personal email for government and secure information.
That's a lot of crickets....
Also getting into the child of a politician's divorce (which typically get nasty) is super classy.
...were they against state laws?
...did they have classified information?
...did they use a personal email server in their basement for their job?
Also, the people leaking and publishing the divorce papers on Biden are fething scum.
...fething can't even pretend to be a commie right....
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
...fething can't even pretend to be a commie right....
Lol, but this here is 'Murica, and the French are commies!!! In fact, the Germans are commies, the English are commies, the Eye-talians are commies. Thur ain't no one as Free as we 'Muricans are!
PODGORICA, Montenegro (AP) — Pro-Russian opposition leaders in Montenegro have asked the White House chief strategist to help block the Balkan country's NATO bid.
Two opposition officials wrote in a letter to Steve Bannon, a senior adviser to U.S. President Donald Trump, that the U.S. Senate should vote against the accession. The vote has been stalled because of objections by two senators.
The Associated Press obtained a copy of the letter on Friday.
So far, 25 of 28 NATO members have approved Montenegro's membership bid, but the U.S. endorsement is considered crucial.
Trump's stand on NATO, which he once described an "obsolete" organization, and his positive remarks about Russian President Vladimir Putin have caused worries in Montenegro that the country could be left without Western support amid the Kremlin's expanding influence in the Balkan region.
Guess we'll have to wait and see which way the wind blows/what's viewed on TV to see which way the W.House will lean then.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
PODGORICA, Montenegro (AP) — Pro-Russian opposition leaders in Montenegro have asked the White House chief strategist to help block the Balkan country's NATO bid.
Two opposition officials wrote in a letter to Steve Bannon, a senior adviser to U.S. President Donald Trump, that the U.S. Senate should vote against the accession. The vote has been stalled because of objections by two senators.
The Associated Press obtained a copy of the letter on Friday.
So far, 25 of 28 NATO members have approved Montenegro's membership bid, but the U.S. endorsement is considered crucial.
Trump's stand on NATO, which he once described an "obsolete" organization, and his positive remarks about Russian President Vladimir Putin have caused worries in Montenegro that the country could be left without Western support amid the Kremlin's expanding influence in the Balkan region.
Guess we'll have to wait and see which way the wind blows/what's viewed on TV to see which way the W.House will lean then.
I still can't quite believe that Bannon has actual power, given that his main claim to fame is managing a group of professional liars and gakposters.
As a wise philosopher once said:
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
Kilkrazy wrote: Sessions was economical "avec le verite" as the British would say.
He could have declared his meetings with the Russian Ambassador at the hearing and been in the clear. Why did he feel the need to avoid mentioning them?
The counter-argument is that he was being asked about meetings specifically related to the campaign, not to government work in general.
Senator Sessions' so-called scandal is just the latest item in the Democrat's agenda to hinder President Trump and the Republicans. It's already fizzling out and will be a non-story by this time next week.
And the counter-counter argument is that there is a mounting suspicion that the Trump Campaign colluded with the Russian government to cheat at the election, and for Sessions to obscure his relevant contacts with Russian government officials during the campaign is a very obvious "no smoke without fire" point.
Sessions is now the fourth Team Trump official to have been found to have dealings with the Russian Government, and the second who has had to resign/recuse himself because of the aura of suspicion and conflict of interest that has adhered to them as a result of their weasel words that concealed their involvements.
You do know that he has formally recused himself... right?
That's more that AG Lynch or AG Holder has ever done...
Further more, even if a Special Prosecutor is mandated, the ironic thing is that person *still* reports to AG Sessons. There's really no such thing as 'Independent Special Prosecutor' (ala, Kenneth Starr). But still, if someone who as a reputation of integrity, ie Preet Bharara from NY FBI office, I'm all for that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/03 18:33:40
Kilkrazy wrote: And the counter-counter argument is that there is a mounting suspicion that the Trump Campaign colluded with the Russian government to cheat at the election, and for Sessions to obscure his relevant contacts with Russian government officials during the campaign is a very obvious "no smoke without fire" point.
Allegations, sure, but suspicion? No. Also, there's a stunning lack of smoke in this fireless fire thus the comparison to McCarthyism. News organizations (mainstream and left wing) have been chasing this and come up empty at every turn. Only the Democrats continue the push.
Kilkrazy wrote: Sessions is now the fourth Team Trump official to have been found to have dealings with the Russian Government...
Almost every member in Congress has had "dealings" with the Russians. The question is, did Senator Sessions have dealings related to the Trump election effort? The answer is no.
Kilkrazy wrote: ...and the second who has had to resign/recuse himself because of the aura of suspicion and conflict of interest that has adhered to them as a result of their weasel words that concealed their involvements.
He recused himself to shut down an avenue of attack by the Democrats. He wasn't involved with the investigation anyway so it's not like his recusal really means anything.
What's got me laughing is how the left wing have twisted themselves into a pretzel over Russia. Remember the response of President Obama was when asked about Mitt Romney calling Russia our greatest geopolitical foe?
"The 1980s called..." Now the Democrats are blaming Russia for all their problems. My, how things have changed.
My personal views: Russia is our adversary and that needs to be taken seriously. President Trump's business relationships with Russia are a point of concern but the actions of the Democrats are self-serving and pitiful at best. They lost and need to "get over it" already. Continued "off the rails" behavior will just cost them more seats in two years and make President Trump look even more statesmanlike by comparison. Making baseless charges against President Trump only serves to make him look stronger when he defies them, stands up for himself, and comes away the winner when the charges are shown to be baseless in all the major news media.
Another personal view: The Republicans should have had an Obamacare replacement plan ready to go after the election. It boggles my mind why this wasn't done. It's not like they've been campaigning on this issue or anything.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/03 19:40:25
What's got me laughing is how the left wing have twisted themselves into a pretzel over Russia. Remember the response of President Obama was when asked about Mitt Romney calling Russia our greatest geopolitical foe?
At the time they werent. They really still arent, we have more than 2x the population and 10x the GDP and military budget and have only been sparring with them on the fringes of the games of empire, until the election issues came round. In the grand scheme of things, China is a much larger potential geopolitical foe, Russia basically has the threat of nukes and little else. Russia's economic strength is almost entirely in resources, her exports are almost entirely agriculture and energy based, she has the economic base of a developing nation, and her conventional military, while capable of slapping around small neighbors, is woefully inadequate to challenge the US in any meaningful way. Much of Russias actions have been aimed primarily at internal audiences. Russias primary threat, aside from nukes, is her willingness to play in the information sphere, not as any sort of real direct economic or military threat to the US.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
They didn't have a plan because they spent the previous 8 years (and several years under Clinton) trying to block, smash or cripple the whole concept, instead of proposing amendments and alternatives.
Wait, so we are pointing to a 9 year old video to show that the Democrats position now may say something different about international relations and claim it is hypocrisy? So should we also post Reagan videos talking about the evil empire? What about Bush saying Islam is not our enemy?
Or maybe time marches on and different candidates take different views....
"The 1980s called..." Now the Democrats are blaming Russia for all their problems. My, how things have changed.
My personal views: Russia is our adversary and that needs to be taken seriously. President Trump's business relationships with Russia are a point of concern but the actions of the Democrats are self-serving and pitiful at best. They lost and need to "get over it" already. Continued "off the rails" behavior will just cost them more seats in two years and make President Trump look even more statesmanlike by comparison. Making baseless charges against President Trump only serves to make him look stronger when he defies them, stands up for himself, and comes away the winner when the charges are shown to be baseless in all the major news media.
You literally just said "Russia is a problem that needs to be taken seriously. Democrats are wrong for investigating connections between the POTUS and Russia."
My, how things have changed. 