US Politics: 2017 Edition

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**AlmightyWalrus**

The horrible ideas just keep coming.

Exclusive: Trump administration considering separating women, children at Mexico border

Reuters wrote:Women and children crossing together illegally into the United States could be separated by U.S. authorities under a proposal being considered by the Department of Homeland Security, according to three government officials.

Part of the reason for the proposal is to deter mothers from migrating to the United States with their children, said the officials, who have been briefed on the proposal.

The policy shift would allow the government to keep parents in custody while they contest deportation or wait for asylum hearings. Children would be put into protective custody with the Department of Health and Human Services, in the "least restrictive setting" until they can be taken into the care of a U.S. relative or state-sponsored guardian.

Currently, families contesting deportation or applying for asylum are generally released from detention quickly and allowed to remain in the United States until their cases are resolved. A federal appeals court ruling bars prolonged child detention.

President Donald Trump has called for ending "catch and release," in which migrants who cross illegally are freed to live in the United States while awaiting legal proceedings.

Two of the officials were briefed on the proposal at a Feb. 2 town hall for asylum officers by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services asylum chief John Lafferty.

A third DHS official said the department is actively considering separating women from their children but has not made a decision.

HHS and the White House did not respond to requests for comment.

In a statement to Reuters, DHS said: "The journey north is a dangerous one with too many situations where children - brought by parents, relatives or smugglers - are often exploited, abused or may even lose their lives.

"With safety in mind, the Department of Homeland Security continually explores options that may discourage those from even beginning the journey," the statement said.

U.S. Representative Henry Cuellar, a Texas Democrat whose district includes about 200 miles (320 km) of the border with Mexico, slammed the proposal. "Bottom line: separating mothers and children is wrong," he said in a statement.

"That type of thing is where we depart from border security and get into violating human rights," he said.

About 54,000 children and their guardians were apprehended between Oct. 1, 2016, and Jan. 31, 2017, more than double the number caught over the same time period a year earlier.

Republicans in Congress have argued women are willing to risk the dangerous journey with their children because they are assured they will be quickly released from detention and given court dates set years into the future.

Immigrant rights advocates have argued that Central America's violent and impoverished conditions force mothers to immigrate to the United States and that they should be given asylum status. (Graphic: tmsnrt.rs/2m4aPAs)

Implementing the new policy proposal "could create lifelong psychological trauma," said Marielena Hincapie, executive director at the National Immigration Law Center. "Especially for children that have just completed a perilous journey from Central America."

Hincapie said the U.S. government is likely to face legal challenges based on immigration and family law if they decide to implement the policy.

The policy would allow DHS to detain parents while complying with a 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals order from July 2016 that immigrant children should be released from detention as quickly as possible. That order said their parents were not required to be freed.

To comply with that order, the Obama administration implemented a policy of holding women and children at family detention centers for no more than 21 days before releasing them.

Holding mothers in prolonged detention could also strain government resources, said Randy Capps of the Migration Policy Institute, a Washington-based non-profit.

“You are talking about a pretty rapid increase in the detention population if you are going to do this," Capps said. "The question is really how much detention can they afford."

Department of Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly last week ordered immigration agents to deport or criminally prosecute parents who facilitate the illegal smuggling of their children.

Many parents who arrive on the U.S.-Mexico border with their children have paid smugglers to guide them across the dangerous terrain.

(Reporting by Julia Edwards Ainsley; Additional reporting by Mica Rosenberg and Susan Cornwell; Editing by Sue Horton, Ross Colvin, James Dalgleish and Lisa Shumaker)

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

The comedy gold keep coming

Trump accuses Obama of wire-tapping Trump Tower

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/04/donald-trump-accuses-obama-of-wire-tapping-his-office-before-election

Well, I suppose that's one way of deflecting from the focus on Jeff Sessions

**LordofHats**

I feel this needs to be updated;

Spoiler:

To now include;

Obama: Never colluded with a foreign country.

Trump: Has 4 associates accused of colluding with a foreign country. Demands investigation of opposition leader for official meetings held 7 years ago.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

A POTUS on the make is nothing new in US politics, Grant's administration was notorious for its corruption,

but at least Grant could say he won the Civil War.

**LordofHats**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
A POTUS on the make is nothing new in US politics, Grant's administration was notorious for its corruption,

And Grant is consistently among the lowest rated President's for it XD

It's one thing to participate in good old fashion nepotism, which is pretty common across all political system. Trump is not that thing XD

**Compel**

Not *just* that thing, you mean? :p

**BigWaaagh**

LordofHats wrote:
I feel this needs to be updated;

Spoiler:

To now include;

Obama: Never colluded with a foreign country.

Trump: Has 4 associates accused of colluding with a foreign country. Demands investigation of opposition leader for official meetings held 7 years ago.

Yes, this. Would someone please tell POTUS to quit blowing MY MONEY on weekenders to Mar-a-Lago. I've been on the WH tour and it's a fine, beautiful house...now, Mr. President, try actually living there.

"President Trump put American taxpayers at the front of his first-day agenda Monday(1/23), planning for tax and spending cuts and freezing hiring because he believes wasteful spending that is standard in Washington is "insulting" to workers."
"We've got to look at how we're spending the American people's tax money," he(Spicer) told reporters.

Any day now that you feel like walking that walk yourself Donnie...

**Breotan**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
The comedy gold keep coming

Trump accuses Obama or wire-tapping Trump Tower

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/04/donald-trump-accuses-obama-of-wire-tapping-his-office-before-election

Well, I suppose that's one way of deflecting from the focus on Jeff Sessions

See? Now this is the sort of thing that disappoints me about President Trump. It's like the National Enquirer has become the nation's leading news source.

As for Senator Sessions, the "scandal" of the so-called meetings is pretty much over and done with so there's no reason to deflect from it. I do wonder if there's something else that President Trump is trying to kick under the carpet. Or he may simply have felt unloved by the media and is just once again clamoring for attention.

**BigWaaagh**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
The comedy gold keep coming

Trump accuses Obama or wire-tapping Trump Tower

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/04/donald-trump-accuses-obama-of-wire-tapping-his-office-before-election

Well, I suppose that's one way of deflecting from the focus on Jeff Sessions

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-trump-tower/ar-AAnMiwJ?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=ASUDHP

If there was anybody who still harbored any sense that DT is not a fething loon, I think this dispels any residual reluctance. This is crazy guy on milk carton on the corner ranting to the sky stuff. Obama wiretapping Trump Tower...

**CptJake**

Breotan wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
The comedy gold keep coming

Trump accuses Obama or wire-tapping Trump Tower

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/04/donald-trump-accuses-obama-of-wire-tapping-his-office-before-election

Well, I suppose that's one way of deflecting from the focus on Jeff Sessions

See? Now this is the sort of thing that disappoints me about President Trump. It's like the National Enquirer has become the nation's leading news source.

As for Senator Sessions, the "scandal" of the so-called meetings is pretty much over and done with so there's no reason to deflect from it. I do wonder if there's something else that President Trump is trying to kick under the carpet. Or he may simply have felt unloved by the media and is just once again clamoring for attention.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/443768/obama-fisa-trump-wiretap

I don't know, other news sources (besides Trump's twitter account) are claiming the Obama admin got a FISA court to authorize surveillance. The above link tries to summarize the story.

And

But The Times knew several critical facts: the F.B.I. had a sophisticated investigation underway on Trump’s organization, possibly including FISA warrants. (Some news outlets now report that the F.B.I. did indeed have such warrants, an indication of probable cause.) Investigators had identified a mysterious communication channel, partly through a lead from anti-Trump operatives

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/20/public-editor/trump-russia-fbi-liz-spayd-public-editor.html?_r=0

Heat Street article: https://heatst.com/world/exclusive-fbi-granted-fisa-warrant-covering-trump-camps-ties-to-russia/

Guess we'll have to see what pans out.

**Breotan**

BigWaaagh wrote:
Yes, this. Would someone please tell POTUS to quit blowing MY MONEY on weekenders to Mar-a-Lago.

I have to wonder if he understands just how much money he is wasting by not moving into the White House?

**BigWaaagh**

Breotan wrote:
BigWaaagh wrote:
Yes, this. Would someone please tell POTUS to quit blowing MY MONEY on weekenders to Mar-a-Lago.

I have to wonder if he understands just how much money he is wasting by not moving into the White House?

I think he understands, very well, how much money HE'S(Trump Inc.) making with these trips, i.e. Mar-a-Lago membership fee "coincidentally" raised. Wasting OUR money in doing so...I don't think he cares. Actions always speak louder than words.

This is actually what I always saw as the end game for Trump, brand promotion and his own bottom line. I don't view him as a conservative, or a liberal, for that matter. I view him, at his core, to be apolitical. He cozied up to HRC when she was a NY Senator and it behooved him to do so because it's what a NYC real estate developer would do. He has one overriding concern and that is his "empire". He doesn't care about workers or the "people"...or America, necessarily, for that matter...look at the stacks of lawsuits against him for his stiffing of creditors, employees, contractors, etc. I genuinely believe that he's the dog that caught the bus and now has no clue what to do...enter Preibus and Bannon with their agenda. Just my thoughts.

**Breotan**

BigWaaagh wrote:
This is actually what I always saw as the end game for Trump, brand promotion and his own bottom line.

For the most part, I agree with this assessment. I have the feeling President Trump will be a single term President if only because the demands of the office will conflict too much with his business interests.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Genuine question for American dakka members: where does this circus end?

I'm trying to be neutral here, so when a current POTUS accuses his predecessor of wire-tapping his presidential campaign, these are very serious allegations that would normally be treated with the utmost alarm and a desire to thoroughly investigate them for the integrity of American democracy, regardless of your political allegiance.

But with Trump, mud is getting thrown everywhere at everything...and it's only been two months!

With the Russia allegations, this, and the shambolic start to the Trump administration,

where the FETH is this going?

**CptJake**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Genuine question for American dakka members: where does this circus end?

I'm trying to be neutral here, so when a current POTUS accuses his predecessor of wire-tapping his presidential campaign, these are very serious allegations that would normally be treated with the utmost alarm and a desire to thoroughly investigate them for the integrity of American democracy, regardless of your political allegiance.

But with Trump, mud is getting thrown everywhere at everything...and it's only been two months!

With the Russia allegations, this, and the shambolic start to the Trump administration,

where the FETH is this going?

Trump is just repeating news stories (I linked above) about Obama getting a FISA warrant against him.

**Steelmage99**

CptJake wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Genuine question for American dakka members: where does this circus end?

I'm trying to be neutral here, so when a current POTUS accuses his predecessor of wire-tapping his presidential campaign, these are very serious allegations that would normally be treated with the utmost alarm and a desire to thoroughly investigate them for the integrity of American democracy, regardless of your political allegiance.

But with Trump, mud is getting thrown everywhere at everything...and it's only been two months!

With the Russia allegations, this, and the shambolic start to the Trump administration,

where the FETH is this going?

Trump is just repeating news stories (I linked above) about Obama getting a FISA warrant against him.

Is that what the news stories say? Or is this another "look at what happened in Sweden last night!" moment?

**Mr. Burning**

CptJake wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Genuine question for American dakka members: where does this circus end?

I'm trying to be neutral here, so when a current POTUS accuses his predecessor of wire-tapping his presidential campaign, these are very serious allegations that would normally be treated with the utmost alarm and a desire to thoroughly investigate them for the integrity of American democracy, regardless of your political allegiance.

But with Trump, mud is getting thrown everywhere at everything...and it's only been two months!

With the Russia allegations, this, and the shambolic start to the Trump administration,

where the FETH is this going?

Trump is just repeating news stories (I linked above) about Obama getting a FISA warrant against him.

Its an ideal situation for the TRUMP presidential brand. The whitehouse has already sown the seeds of Obama tampering with leaks which feeds into 'fake news' agenda Trump keeps pushing.

It de-legitimises the FISA warrant and deflects attention from this administrations poor handling and inept answering of potential conflicts of interest over Russia.

**Gitzbitah**

You know, as most of the Russian communications allegations are proving to be true- would it really be inappropriate for the FBI to be wiretapping a presidential candidate in that close communication with a foreign power?

I'm not being rhetorical, I am genuinely curious.

**NinthMusketeer**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Genuine question for American dakka members: where does this circus end?

I'm trying to be neutral here, so when a current POTUS accuses his predecessor of wire-tapping his presidential campaign, these are very serious allegations that would normally be treated with the utmost alarm and a desire to thoroughly investigate them for the integrity of American democracy, regardless of your political allegiance.

But with Trump, mud is getting thrown everywhere at everything...and it's only been two months!

With the Russia allegations, this, and the shambolic start to the Trump administration,

where the FETH is this going?

The circus will most likely continue until the baby boomer generation dies out, at which point the GOP will lose the edge they need to perform well in elections. 15-20 years or so.

**Steelmage99**

Wow, Donald Trump seems to be off his rocker in regard to the FISA issue.

Setting aside for a second whether what the articles say is true or not. There is a huge divide between what the articles say (true or not) and what Trump tweets.

Is he that dumb? Does he actually think his tweets represents what the articles say? Does he wilfully change the truth for other purposes? Are those tweets even worthy of a President?

**Spinner**

In order: maybe, probs not but it's hard to say, absolutely, and oh, my, no...

**LordofHats**

I lol'd

Spoiler:

**Breotan**

As for the Pence email scandal, it goes to show how the Clinton machine was so befuddled by Trump that they missed background research on his running mate. Had this story come out in early October, it might have made some impact on the "incompetent Hillary" narrative the Republicans were using.

I'm honestly surprised we're only hearing about this now.

**LordofHats**

Breotan wrote:
As for the Pence email scandal, it goes to show how the Clinton machine was so befuddled by Trump that they missed background research on his running mate. Had this story come out in early October, it might have made some impact on the "incompetent Hillary" narrative the Republicans were using.

I'm honestly surprised we're only hearing about this now.

Or Clinton just didn't think it mattered (I don't think the email thing hurt her, so much as her opposition being able to proclaim she was being investigated by the FBI did). It still doesn't really matter.

I just find it amusing that all those people posting to hell and back how much it mattered are now silent. Not even a "both sides do it" attempt at whataboutism. EDIT: Of course it was pretty amusing when all those people so concerned about cyber-secruity didn't care that Russia was hacking US political parties and trying to influence an election, but now it's more of a sad funny.

**Verviedi**

It's truly interesting how email security was the single biggest issue this election. Not that electing Trump would signal the death of our last chance to save our environment, not that Hillary would at least prevent the government from collapsing,

email security.

**whembly**

Steelmage99 wrote:
Wow, Donald Trump seems to be off his rocker in regard to the FISA issue.

Setting aside for a second whether what the articles say is true or not. There is a huge divide between what the articles say (true or not) and what Trump tweets.

Is he that dumb? Does he actually think his tweets represents what the articles say? Does he wilfully change the truth for other purposes? Are those tweets even worthy of a President?

It's dumb. No matter which way it goes...

If the Obama administration had Trump’s campaign wiretapped illegally, that’s a very big scandal for Obama. If the Obama administration had Trump’s campaign wiretapped legally, that’s a scandal for Trump... and Trump himself has now forced the issue.

Time to publish the merits of that FISA request.

**Rosebuddy**

Breotan wrote:
As for the Pence email scandal, it goes to show how the Clinton machine was so befuddled by Trump that they missed background research on his running mate. Had this story come out in early October, it might have made some impact on the "incompetent Hillary" narrative the Republicans were using.

I'm honestly surprised we're only hearing about this now.

Trump was videotaped bragging about how much he loves sexual assault. The impact of "background research" is obviously limited.

**Steelmage99**

whembly wrote:
Steelmage99 wrote:
Wow, Donald Trump seems to be off his rocker in regard to the FISA issue.

Setting aside for a second whether what the articles say is true or not. There is a huge divide between what the articles say (true or not) and what Trump tweets.

Is he that dumb? Does he actually think his tweets represents what the articles say? Does he wilfully change the truth for other purposes? Are those tweets even worthy of a President?

It's dumb. No matter which way it goes...

If the Obama administration had Trump’s campaign wiretapped illegally, that’s a very big scandal for Obama. If the Obama administration had Trump’s campaign wiretapped legally, that’s a scandal for Trump... and Trump himself has now forced the issue.

Time to publish the merits of that FISA request.

I think you missed my point. Set aside the legality of the wire tap for a second. Just read the articles and then read Trumps tweets.

The man is either terminally stupid or dishonestly deceptive.

**Compel**

Everything I've read so far has said that Trump Tower was tapped. Could it be very well have nothing to do with Trump at all?

I seem to remember various allegations during the primaries that a lot of Trump Tower offices were rented to... Shall we say less than the most... lets say... well meaning... businesses who desperately wanted a Trump Tower address to convince people of additional legitimacy.

I may be misremembering though.

**Kanluwen**

Breotan wrote:
As for the Pence email scandal, it goes to show how the Clinton machine was so befuddled by Trump that they missed background research on his running mate. Had this story come out in early October, it might have made some impact on the "incompetent Hillary" narrative the Republicans were using.

I'm honestly surprised we're only hearing about this now.

This isn't the first we're hearing about it. People brought up time and time and time again that a great many politicians are conducting business on private email servers/accounts to avoid FOIA requests.

It just didn't matter, because Clinton bad. It's just that easy to explain.