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Not sure which special weapon I should take with my Death Korps Infantry blobs. Grenade Launchers have range and superior strength but at the risk of the bad BS of the guardsmen. On the other hand, flamers have no range (basically) but negate BS.

Any ideas which one I should choose?

Melta or plasma. Flamers and grenade launchers both suck.

I generally put Grenade Launchers on mine, it's fluffy and I like the range for when things approach my Aegis Defense Line.

But that said the Flamers would be more effective if my opponents want to charge my ADL.

So it depends on what you think you'll see.

 Peregrine wrote:
Melta or plasma. Flamers and grenade launchers both suck.

Even with the mediocre BS of guardsmen?

It really depends on what you already have and what you want your blob to do. If there goal is to absorb melee, then flamers might be a good way to go. If the goal is to generally kill stuff, plasma and melta are pretty good for that, especially if you expect your blob to take on vehicles.

Just my .02, and I'm not what you call an expert by any means.

 deltaKshatriya wrote:
It really depends on what you already have and what you want your blob to do. If there goal is to absorb melee, then flamers might be a good way to go. If the goal is to generally kill stuff, plasma and melta are pretty good for that, especially if you expect your blob to take on vehicles.

Just my .02, and I'm not what you call an expert by any means.

Surely you'd use other things to handle vehicles? Like tanks and heavy weapon teams?

 Koku wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Melta or plasma. Flamers and grenade launchers both suck.

Even with the mediocre BS of guardsmen?

Yes. BS 3 applies equally to all weapons (except flamers), so it isn't a factor. Melta and plasma have a chance of doing something, grenade launchers are barely better than the lasgun they replace. And flamers get to shoot so rarely that they're arguably worse than the lasguns they replace.

 Koku wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Melta or plasma. Flamers and grenade launchers both suck.

Even with the mediocre BS of guardsmen?

I tend to use flamers on my normal guardsmen since it gives them a little bonus when they are charged. The flamer is also nice against open-topped vehicles.

That being said. I rarely use the regular guardsmen but tend to go for small squads of Grenadiers (mix of melta/plasma) or Engineers (heavy flamer +melta being my favorite).

IMO grenade launchers are best on most blobs. Flamers are only worth it close (duh) and other options are too expensive if you are outfitting a lot of squads. 3-4 Grenade launchers in a squad let your blob threaten MC and light vehicles.

 Dalek Sec wrote:
3-4 Grenade launchers in a squad let your blob threaten MC and light vehicles.

No they don't. Four BS 3 grenade launchers against a T6/3+ MC is 0.3333 wounds per turn. Four BS 3 grenade launchers against AV 10 is 1 HP per turn, less if they have cover/jink (as light vehicles often do). A blob with grenade launchers scares nothing. You might as well keep the lasguns if you aren't going to bother to give your squads real weapons.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Dalek Sec wrote:
3-4 Grenade launchers in a squad let your blob threaten MC and light vehicles.

No they don't. Four BS 3 grenade launchers against a T6/3+ MC is 0.3333 wounds per turn. Four BS 3 grenade launchers against AV 10 is 1 HP per turn, less if they have cover/jink (as light vehicles often do). A blob with grenade launchers scares nothing. You might as well keep the lasguns if you aren't going to bother to give your squads real weapons.

Thats 1 more HP then you would have had anyways if you were equipped with flamers, and you will do a likely number of wounds as a flamer if you are firing small blasts from 24 inches away. If that squad had nothing better to fire at anyways you now have done something that would not have happened with flamers

As for the OP, are you using the DKoK rules or regular guard rules? Obviously if you are using DKoK rules they can only use flamers or grenade launchers, and I have had a lot more positive experience with grenade launchers. 75% of the time when I use flamers they go unused because of range and the fact that my guardsman are dying in droves. grenade launchers give them a little more punch in both the range and power department. With the GL you can threaten light vehicles if you had nothing better to shoot at and even have a better chance to wound higher T models that are running around these days

You'd be better off saving points by not buying grenade launchers and useing those points towards mure useful options like artillery

 CrownAxe wrote:
You'd be better off saving points by not buying grenade launchers and useing those points towards mure useful options like artillery

On that note I have had a great deal of success (esp running the Emperors Shield) with running 10 man naked Guardsman Squads armed only with a melta bomb on the Sgt. It gives lots of targets that can still potentially wreck vehicles or hurt MCs for a very small price

I'd agree with crownaxe.

It's pointless throwing all these points into a unit as upgrades when they have minimal effect anyway.
Take meltabombs on the Sgt as a precaution.

Throw the saved points into armour and artillery instead.
You will have far more effect from this.

 generalchaos34 wrote:
Thats 1 more HP then you would have had anyways if you were equipped with flamers

Why are we comparing everything to flamers? The correct comparison is with the good weapons, melta and plasma. And the good weapons deal vastly more damage for a moderate increase in price, especially considered as a percentage of the whole unit's cost. A 60-point infantry squad with a melta gun is far scarier than a 55-point infantry squad with a grenade launcher.

and you will do a likely number of wounds as a flamer if you are firing small blasts from 24 inches away.

Only if your opponent sucks at the game and bunches up their models into perfect template formation instead of using the full 2" coherency distance. Against spaced-out models a 3" blast will only ever hit a single model with a direct hit, and two models with the right scatter. Frag grenades are almost always worse than keeping the lasgun, and you have to pay points to get them!

Obviously if you are using DKoK rules they can only use flamers or grenade launchers

Uh, no. Both the IA12 assault brigade and IA:Vraks siege army have the ability to take flame/grenade launcher/melta/plasma just like codex IG infantry squads.

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Dalek Sec wrote:
3-4 Grenade launchers in a squad let your blob threaten MC and light vehicles.

No they don't. Four BS 3 grenade launchers against a T6/3+ MC is 0.3333 wounds per turn. Four BS 3 grenade launchers against AV 10 is 1 HP per turn, less if they have cover/jink (as light vehicles often do). A blob with grenade launchers scares nothing. You might as well keep the lasguns if you aren't going to bother to give your squads real weapons.

Thats 1 more HP then you would have had anyways if you were equipped with flamers, and you will do a likely number of wounds as a flamer if you are firing small blasts from 24 inches away. If that squad had nothing better to fire at anyways you now have done something that would not have happened with flamers

As for the OP, are you using the DKoK rules or regular guard rules? Obviously if you are using DKoK rules they can only use flamers or grenade launchers, and I have had a lot more positive experience with grenade launchers. 75% of the time when I use flamers they go unused because of range and the fact that my guardsman are dying in droves. grenade launchers give them a little more punch in both the range and power department. With the GL you can threaten light vehicles if you had nothing better to shoot at and even have a better chance to wound higher T models that are running around these days

I'm using DKoK rules from IA:12 and IA:5 2nd Ed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:
Thats 1 more HP then you would have had anyways if you were equipped with flamers

Why are we comparing everything to flamers? The correct comparison is with the good weapons, melta and plasma. And the good weapons deal vastly more damage for a moderate increase in price, especially considered as a percentage of the whole unit's cost. A 60-point infantry squad with a melta gun is far scarier than a 55-point infantry squad with a grenade launcher.

and you will do a likely number of wounds as a flamer if you are firing small blasts from 24 inches away.

Only if your opponent sucks at the game and bunches up their models into perfect template formation instead of using the full 2" coherency distance. Against spaced-out models a 3" blast will only ever hit a single model with a direct hit, and two models with the right scatter. Frag grenades are almost always worse than keeping the lasgun, and you have to pay points to get them!

Obviously if you are using DKoK rules they can only use flamers or grenade launchers

Uh, no. Both the IA12 assault brigade and IA:Vraks siege army have the ability to take flame/grenade launcher/melta/plasma just like codex IG infantry squads.

You say melta or plasma is the best but which one? Plasma is good because of range but costs a bit and you can lose a guy because of shooting it. Also, their AP ability isn't the best. Melta is great for insta-deathing T4 things and for anti-vehicle capabilities but their range isn't too good. Any ideas?

It's a big question for unending host lists also.