Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
Mikes, I said attempt at Confrontation, nowhere did I say classic, so please stop putting things in my mouth.

Be clearer then. Use your words, dude.

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
I do not believe that you can drop your pledge if doing so takes a project from funded to unfunded. You can do it if it just effects a stretch goal but not the funded total, it was to stop people fake pledging to hit the goal. Could be wrong but that's definitely what it used to be. EDIT: Looks like it's changed, you can cancel whilst it is live regardless now.

I think that only applies in the last couple of days of a campaign. Outwith that period, you can un-fund a campaign.

Applies only to the last two days afaik.

Limonata wrote:
This link to Facebook was posted in the comments

https://www.facebook.com/darkphane/posts/10214066554272756

Stephane Guèbe
April 19 at 8:06am ·

Careful I warn mode big con activated I warn you in advance: it's a big joke this ks confrontation no visual of the quality of the figs, the entrance ticket is ultra too high and extra limited and if you want to go home now you Must Snap 320th, how to say nicely!!! It looks like a bottom lifting without warranty, made by amateurs, with a big risk and given their policy on the ks, it completely blocks the progress of ks So des goals etc..
Watch out!!! I'm probably not gonna make a news buddy but I'm down the c.... es but it's a big joke not smart guys!!!

[For whatever reason Facebook translates this to me if I like it or not, but perhaps others can see the original French]

The guy basically says SD are a bunch of amateur, and the lack of any visual makes him worrisome. Also, the high cost of entry makes it hard to reach the stretch goals.
I think the most important thing is that almost everyone who replied to him agrees.The hype for confrontation was real here in France, and many still consider it as one of the best games ever. So the fact that we don't see die-hard fan trying to defend that project is yet another red flag.

Also, one of the replies mentions that the current setup will give you many factions, but none of them will actually contain enough models/pts to play a proper game.
I don't remember much about Confrontation (haven't played in over 15 years), but maybe someone here knows a bit more and can comment on that.

Looks like they FINALLY have a moderator after 8 days who is fluent in English and French. The most comprehendible replies I have seen thus far. They are promising another "Surprise" today but I am wondering if this is just too late at this point.

fresus wrote:
]
. So the fact that we don't see die-hard fan trying to defend that project is yet another red flag.

....

Also, one of the replies mentions that the current setup will give you many factions, but none of them will actually contain enough models/pts to play a proper game.
I don't remember much about Confrontation (haven't played in over 15 years), but maybe someone here knows a bit more and can comment on that.

There are plenty of the old.players still excited about the KS, in the KS comments and on Facebook, they're just not the ones being shared here. I still think the KS will succeed, but it's been out forward that maybe SD should postpone it and come back later with another approach, allowing individual faction add ons but at a higher funding level to cover the cost, and I wouldn't be against that idea. It would also give them chance to gather some example end sculpts.

As for the factions, the French forum I linked a while back broke down the units in each. They vary between 395 and 405 point Rd each, so there's enough for a force, but not always a balanced one.

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
I do not believe that you can drop your pledge if doing so takes a project from funded to unfunded. You can do it if it just effects a stretch goal but not the funded total, it was to stop people fake pledging to hit the goal. Could be wrong but that's definitely what it used to be. EDIT: Looks like it's changed, you can cancel whilst it is live regardless now.

Yes and no?

You cannot drop in the last...48 hours?....if it would cause the campaign to un--fund.

So...pay attention and be careful near the end!

The forces are not really useful. The units came often with several miniatures for a unit and they split many of those up for the KS.
I.e. though you might get a card you can´t play the unit as per 3.x-rules since you are missing the right number of miniatures.

Pointwise you could play it, but the factions vary heavily in points.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/996665814/confrontation-classic-the-legendary-skirmish-game/posts/2172208

So resin is happening? No real news on how this will work just yet.

Yeah, just that it's a collectors add-on... Think I might just bag myself some metals from Cadwallon.com and feth off this kickstarter. Something doesn't feel right about it or SD.... I don't have enough confidence to chip in with it

Not sure what that means or how'd they do it, but when they do it, expect the pledge total to drop even more.

And that's saying something as the last 4 days have seen them lose €50K.

 Davidian wrote:
Yeah, just that it's a collectors add-on... Think I might just bag myself some metals from Cadwallon.com and feth off this kickstarter. Something doesn't feel right about it or SD.... I don't have enough confidence to chip in with it

So, about Cadwallon. I assume because of this project they are no longer selling any of the original Rackham sculpts. Only things they have produced.

Thats a very exciting news. We will finally be able to purchase factions in resin. I wonder if the resin factions will be delivered earlier than the box in pvc.

Well, it looks like someone came out of the wood. Maybe the reason why some people are so much againt this KS is because the make some profit out of selling recasts. Having confrontation reborn would kill all these illegal businesses...

Yes, that looks to be the case.

Maybe when this one goes belly up they will fire up the workshop again?

Who knows?

Which is what can mostly be said about S-D and this one too.

captain tanuki wrote:
Thats a very exciting news. We will finally be able to purchase factions in resin. I wonder if the resin factions will be delivered earlier than the box in pvc.

Well, it looks like someone came out of the wood. Maybe the reason why some people are so much againt this KS is because the make some profit out of selling recasts. Having confrontation reborn would kill all these illegal businesses...

Woah woah, slow down there. They haven't said what they will be offering and at what price for what quality.

There is no reason to blame the recasters... SD made nearly every mistake in the big book of KS-NONONO!

18 month wait for the minis?

Company that's not launched any KS before?

Company that's not worked in PVC before?

That's three big red flags for me, even if the pictures of what they hope to produce, are very very pretty.

Yep. SD should have just offered the collector's resins in the first place. Less ambitious, plenty of free marketing, and a way to gain experience and trust through KS.

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
The forces are not really useful. The units came often with several miniatures for a unit and they split many of those up for the KS.
I.e. though you might get a card you can´t play the unit as per 3.x-rules since you are missing the right number of miniatures.

The number of miniatures in the blister is an upper limit, not a requirement. There's no problem in the rules with fielding a single Griffin Fusilier, or whatever. It might not be "optimal", but that's a different issue.

Another wolf came out of the wood. Recasting is stealing and people who buy from them are thieves. Thats not an opinion, thats simply the law.


Ian, this company has made crowdfunding before (ulule) and its team has already produced in PVC.

captain tanuki wrote:
Another wolf came out of the wood. Recasting is stealing and people who buy from them are thieves. Thats not an opinion, thats simply the law.


Ian, this company has made crowdfunding before (ulule) and its team has already produced in PVC.

Can you direct me to where I can see their PVC results?

HaleysRedComet wrote:

captain tanuki wrote:
Another wolf came out of the wood. Recasting is stealing and people who buy from them are thieves. Thats not an opinion, thats simply the law.


Ian, this company has made crowdfunding before (ulule) and its team has already produced in PVC.

Can you direct me to where I can see their PVC results?

Last example is Cthulhu Wars : https://fr.ulule.com/cthulhu-wars-vf/

What Captain Tanuki conveniently forgot to say is that the campaign had serious troubles that led with the rewards delivered not completely and a lot of backers crying desperatly to BUY the parts that they didn't receive from others willing to sell their parts.

You can browse their projects here : https://fr.ulule.com/editionssansdetour/, but a lot of comments are in french.

Best luck to those still supporting Sans Détour. Hope they won't cry too much if something really bad happens and they end up with something they didn't pledge for or worse - nothing at all and with their money forever lost.

Another wolf came out of the wood. Recasting is stealing and people who buy from them are thieves. Thats not an opinion, thats simply the law.

I love when people make assertions and pretend that's reality.

So who exactly is this "stealing" from? Rackham - the company that no longer exists? The sculptors who've moved on to other jobs?

18 month wait for the minis?

Company that's not launched any KS before?

Company that's not worked in PVC before?

That's three big red flags for me, even if the pictures of what they hope to produce, are very very pretty.

Pretty much my feelings exactly, I've been burned once on an untested company trying their hand at minis and that's enough for me. If the campaign turns out ok I'll pick up some Dirz later, but from everything I've seen I'm doubting I'll be spending anything in the future.

Thats pretty obvious - they are stealing from the people who own the rights - sans detours in this case.

That´s interesting. As far as I know the rights to the most recent German translations of Confrontation are with former Universal Cards. Did SD get them from them? Or did they revert to Rackham. The last official response from Cyanide was that they did not know who holds the German rights. And according to them the rights situation was quite a minefield. It would be interesting to know whether SD really got all rights back.

According to Stellar Licensing's website they acquired it from Cyanide and then it was licensed to SD.

edit: I mean the confrontation brand not the german translation, just wanted to give the information if anybody forgot it!

No idea how thrust worthy this all is though. Its frustrating to say the least.

I'm confused. The PVC minis in Cthulhu Wars are listed as being done by Ludikbay, which Sans Detour was adamant about being distinct from. Also did they just use the molds from the first run of Cthulhu Wars?

HaleysRedComet wrote:
I'm confused. The PVC minis in Cthulhu Wars are listed as being done by Ludikbay, which Sans Detour was adamant about being distinct from. Also did they just use the molds from the first run of Cthulhu Wars?

Yep, that project was really a messed up one. But I guess the blind defenders don't dig too deep when they're talking about SD's previous experiences in crowdfunding.

In other news, we have resin add on collectors for Confrontation Classic :

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/996665814/confrontation-classic-the-legendary-skirmish-game/posts/2172588

...that aren't part of the Celebration Box pledge and thus invite to the 1$ Pledge. Funds go up, but I suspect only until time backers understand that they usually don't need to put the pledge of the addon right now, they can just stay with 1$ and give the money when the pledge manager opens later...

HaleysRedComet wrote:
I'm confused. The PVC minis in Cthulhu Wars are listed as being done by Ludikbay, which Sans Detour was adamant about being distinct from. Also did they just use the molds from the first run of Cthulhu Wars?

The PVC minis from Cthulhu wars also aren't particularly good IMO. They're basically Bones.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:

HaleysRedComet wrote:
I'm confused. The PVC minis in Cthulhu Wars are listed as being done by Ludikbay, which Sans Detour was adamant about being distinct from. Also did they just use the molds from the first run of Cthulhu Wars?

The PVC minis from Cthulhu wars also aren't particularly good IMO. They're basically Bones.

Yeah... that's not going to work for Rackham stuff.