Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed.

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**.Mikes.**

Limonata wrote:
IMHO, they cannot even bring Resurrection to KS.

Once more for people at the back - Resurrection was never going to be a KS.

**Duncan_Idaho**

Does Kicktraq not rank games partially by the amount of talk about them? And talk is what they definitly generated

.

**Overread**

Also model games tend to fund pretty high anyway by KS standards; they are one of the more expensive products that tends to make it on there so it might well rank high just because a lot of other projects can fund and deliver with much lower costs.

Mikes I think the point is that if SD in a years time or less need money then they won't be able to come to KS to fund Resurrection as an option. Basically this KS has closed down that option until this KS is delivered and even then only if it delivers well.
Otherwise the only other source of investment is private investors and their own pockets. Which are both worrying as they are showing through this campaign that they don't appear to have much in the way of either (if they did they'd have the funds to have made at least one viable sample for the KS to show off).

So it leaves everyone wondering where they will get the money for Resurrection.

**Limonata**

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
Does Kicktraq not rank games partially by the amount of talk about them? And talk is what they definitly generated .

One of the metrics is click through. All you have to do is go to the daily metric for "Zombicide: Invader" and you will see that for any given metric it should be above Confrontation but instead it is #2. I have been part of other KS where backers and sometimes even the creator have asked people to click through Kicktraq to goose it up. Given how consistent it has been on top a simple program in a loop to goose the metric to keep it on top is not out of the question.

**Mysterio**

Confrontation is coming back, thanks to you! -- Confrontation revient grâce à vous!

Posted by Joss (Collaborator)
Confrontation Classic is an incredible adventure, thanks to you. We are now halfway through the Kickstarter campaign and we want to sincerely thank all of you who support us and grand us their trust:

All the backers who rekindle their passion for this incredible game and indulge themselves with a load of miniatures that will be compatible with our upcoming projects, - The professionals in over 20 countries who believe in the success of our range and contacted us in order to distribute Confrontation,
The official Confrontation moderators who keep listening to you (Sylvain, Damien, Sylvano et Boris),
All the passionate players who take the time to defend their game and this project in all kindness when people are curious and ask questions,
The international communities supporting the project, most particularly the Fédé (France : http://www.conf-federation.fr/index.php) and Conf'Evo (Italy : https://www.facebook.com/confrontationevo/) whose fervor and energy we can only salute, when it comes to support Confrontations grand come-back!
And very soon:
We took your feedbacks into account and are currently revising the stretch-goals in order to include more emblematic miniatures!

Seems like they'll need to do a bit more than that:

**Original Timmy**

Limonata wrote:
Duncan_Idaho wrote:
Does Kicktraq not rank games partially by the amount of talk about them? And talk is what they definitly generated .

One of the metrics is click through. All you have to do is go to the daily metric for "Zombicide: Invader" and you will see that for any given metric it should be above Confrontation but instead it is #2. I have been part of other KS where backers and sometimes even the creator have asked people to click through Kicktraq to goose it up. Given how consistent it has been on top a simple program in a loop to goose the metric to keep it on top is not out of the question.

Thats what ive been thinking, i actually woke up today and see they was #1 on the chart again and ive decided to contact Kicktraq to ask them whats up and for them to explain why its been above a lot of very successful projects as it certainly is fishy they are still there, i think the highest they went was #5 and next day i checked they were back at #1 i literally laughed out loud for real

Also has anyone seen these comments asking for better SGs that were mentioned in the last update? the only comments ive seen in the last 7-10 days are asking if the SG will be re-locked, there was people asking for better SG but that was 10 days ago before the exodus started, which i think we intensify with each day and imo it will be very lucky to fund,

**smurfORnot**

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/996665814/confrontation-classic-the-legendary-skirmish-game/posts/2178005

So they decided to add more stuff for free in hope people will just say, look, free minis, pledge!!!!!

This seems less and less viable. Giving more while at same time loosing backers.

**Limonata**

Latest update:

The Celebration Pledge has become a unique item and an exclusive Kickstarter:

ALL the Stretch Goals have been unlocked up to 1 249 999 €. That's a bonus of 86 miniatures!
This include the Stretch Goal for the map of Aarklash.
The Celebration Pledge is limited to 4 000 copies worldwide (including 2 000 Early Birds).

Last but not least:
it will never be available in stores.
It will never be available as a Late Pledge.
And there will never be another Confrontation Classic Kickstarter campaign.
The 1 250 000 € Stretch Goal remains valid and will liberate all factions.

They now have a retailer pledge which is a joke. They also have changed the non-early bird pledge to limit to 2000 -- another joke to pump up the FOMO.

I find it interesting as I have been on other KS and the creators have said they are not allowed per KS to change existing pledge levels although they can add new ones.
These guys seem to have no problem changing an existing pledge level.

The funny thing is, with each update they loose more backers. I watched as they lost 2K with their latest update.

They seem to be successful only in their own minds

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

You can do what you want to existing pledge levels, it's not a rule of KS as a function of how the site works

so what you can't do is change the text in the bit you click on to pledge so lots of people miss the changes, so the extras you're adding as inducements don't show, or the change in delivery date etc

(but overall it's probably a good thing or scammers could promise the moon and then change the offering at the last minute)

**BigDaddio**

That sounds like one of those old-school marketing letters or late-night TV ads.

"Buy now because you won't get another chance!"

"Order before the deadline and get DOUBLE the product!"

On a project where people see genuine red flags, this just adds leverage to those questioning it's feasibility.

**Hanskrampf**

And already another update. The celebration pledge in resin for 990€.

Now that they need to make resin molds, they finally could sell single factions.

Next update in 30 minutes?

This seems beyond desperate to save a failing campaign.

**Limonata**

Resin is Confrontations Holy Grail.
Get your hands on the 178 unique miniatures from the Celebration Pledge in resin at the price of 990 €.
This pledge includes the 2 Battle Sets, but none of the Stretch Goals.
This prestigious edition will not be available as a Late Pledge.

They keep believing people want those Battle Sets.

The have 2 backers for it, so some people believe they will actually get delivered at a level of quality that $1,100 they are asking for the pledge.

**HaleysRedComet**

How long does it take to make a resin cast of a mini?

**Duncan_Idaho**

The problem is the tear and wear and it takes quite longer than PVC.

Either I just had some LSD or SD is really thinking they can turn around that sinking ship with such a stupid move. That does not look promising for every other decision regarding this KS.

**Mysterio**

The newest ridiculous Red Flag is that they've unlocked ALL stretch goals up to 1.2M Euros, even though they're only at 500K Euros, and even the flawed 'trending' prediction has them not reaching 1M Euros.

But somehow this news has brought in $10K Euros today - probably because of the individual add-ons?

Which will eventually lead to the total dropping even more?

"Confused" doesn't begin to describe their KS style.

**Overread**

The only way they could get this KS to run now is if they've already got the money to actually do everything for the KS from another funding source and are trying to use the KS basically as a marketing pre-order system to generate hype.

Which is totally bonkers when this is supposed to be a one-print line of products. If they had that kind of money why would they sink even more of that money into a failing KS just to keep it going

Honestly right now it just sounds more and more like a scam. Not a single clear answer; no product photos that aren't from old products already produced years ago; and a continual series of updates releasing more product despite them actually having less and less money.

**Original Timmy**

HaleysRedComet wrote:
How long does it take to make a resin cast of a mini?

It takes some hrs as you need to mix and pour resin into a mold, then put the mold into a vaculm chamber to get the air bubbles out, then you need to wait the the mini to go hard or hard enough to remove from mold and then left out in the air for 24hrs to cure i believe, i havent casted anything myself but i know a lot of casters in the UK and spoke with them about it all a few times, like it was mentioned by another user here, PVC is done really quickly as the machine pushes the 2 mold halves together then melted plastic balls or pellets around 2/3mm are injected into it, mold stays together for a few seconds enough for the plastic to set and then the molds separate and the minis fall out, job done.

**HaleysRedComet**

Original Timmy wrote:
HaleysRedComet wrote:
How long does it take to make a resin cast of a mini?

It takes some hrs as you need to mix and pour resin into a mold, then put the mold into a vaculm chamber to get the air bubbles out, then you need to wait the the mini to go hard or hard enough to remove from mold and then left out in the air for 24hrs to cure i believe, i havent casted anything myself but i know a lot of casters in the UK and spoke with them about it all a few times, like it was mentioned by another user here, PVC is done really quickly as the machine pushes the 2 mold halves together then melted plastic balls or pellets around 2/3mm are injected into it, mold stays together for a few seconds enough for the plastic to set and then the molds separate and the minis fall out, job done.

Cool. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't the crazy one for expecting that it could have been done sometime in the last year since they were planning for this Kickstarter.

**Original Timmy**

Mysterio wrote:
The newest ridiculous Red Flag is that they've unlocked ALL stretch goals up to 1.2M Euros, even though they're only at 500K Euros, and even the flawed 'trending' prediction has them not reaching 1M Euros.

But somehow this news has brought in $10K Euros today - probably because of the individual add-ons?

Which will eventually lead to the total dropping even more?

"Confused" doesn't begin to describe their KS style.

Yes its very worrying and shows they are in desperation mode, its a massive red flag but i cant believe all the praise they are getting in the update comments people are not thinking straight, it seems Confrontation fans want it back so bad they are blinkered to all the red flags that have popped up since day 1, as for the +10K thats those blinkered fans changing pledge to resin or adding the new add-ons, remember it only takes 10 to upgrade to a full resin pledge to get 10K (wrote before checking campaign page, see edit)

That was the finial nail in the coffin for me, there is no way they can produce 300+ minis from base box at their current funding and they way they have reacted to come to these updates shows a desparate company who will do anything to get this money rather than cancel, regroup, restructure and relaunch like any professional company would, it makes me wonder if some of the money will go to saving Lukidbazar as a few times the mods have mentioned a time limit that needs following so they cant cancel and relaunch

*edit just checked the campaign and only 2x 999 pledges have been taken so far

**DanceOfSlaanesh**

Man there cant be many willing to risk that much money on a kickstarter like the resin pledge.

Since I am a sucker for confrontation minis I actually could buy that if it was already completed and in a store and preferably divided maybe into 10 chunks 100 euro each spread out over a couple of months.

But to risk that much money on a kickstarter? No way I could do that. And that's even before all the red flags.

**Original Timmy**

DanceOfSlaanesh wrote:
Man there cant be many willing to risk that much money on a kickstarter like the resin pledge.

Since I am a sucker for confrontation minis I actually could buy that if it was already completed and in a store and preferably divided maybe into 10 chunks 100 euro each spread out over a couple of months.

But to risk that much money on a kickstarter? No way I could do that. And that's even before all the red flags.

If it was a smooth running campaign and it was offered from the start i think it would have a fair few backers, just look at Sandy Petersons games and KD:M for high value pledges and they get quite a few backers

**Sarouan**

Aiming for "High Quality Collector Editions" is indeed the spirit of Rackham miniatures - at least in the mind of many fans of this line. It's like video games with microtransactions - you just need to catch the smaller number of "whale customers" ready to throw insane amounts of money and it would be good enough for the funding.

They should have done that from the start, pretty sure it would have been much more successful.

It's clear they're focusing on the core of fanatic base for Confrontation miniatures. That's why they're encensing them so much and why the tone of the Bounty Hunters program was set like this. They don't want people who think rationally, only those with blind faith that it will magically succeed.

Still think it was managed poorly so far. Since I don't think the number of backers will really get that high, the only answer is indeed to boost the highest pledges to gather a large amount in the end until the end of the campaign.

**HaleysRedComet**

They've locked themselves into a weird position of only targeting the most fanatic Confrontation fans while not offering them anything they should really want to buy. If you played in the past or currently you are mostly locked into getting too much product that is (probably) worse quality than what you are used to. If you've never played - this forces you to spend an unreasonable amount of money for a full buy in of a game you've never played and this project doesn't explain. I know I might be negative, but I can't see their angle past trying to push a ton of minis for a large price while burying the game as it was entirely.

**Ian Sturrock**

I love how they assume that those of us pointing out red flags are...

a) Total haters who just want the campaign to fail

b) Likely to start suddenly being nice if accused of being total haters

c) Never ever likely to back the campaign

For me a red flag is "Stop, assess, then potentially proceed with caution." It doesn't necessarily mean I won't back. Though by this point...

**BigDaddio**

Exactly. It's like some weird tactic we're used to seeing only in politics (...shudder...).

A red flag risk of $50 is one thing, but $400? No thanks. And the way they have acted? Not even a $1.

**Sarouan**

Ian Sturrock wrote:
I love how they assume that those of us pointing out red flags are...

a) Total haters who just want the campaign to fail

b) Likely to start suddenly being nice if accused of being total haters

c) Never ever likely to back the campaign

For me a red flag is "Stop, assess, then potentially proceed with caution." It doesn't necessarily mean I won't back. Though by this point...

You forget d) Conspiracy made by the guys from Legends of Signum whose Kickstarter will start soon, to kill concurrence/for revenge to force their site Cadwallon to stop Confrontation recasts. it's a new one, but yeah, there seem to be rumors about that kind of stuff around.

**HaleysRedComet**

What conspiracy?

**TwoGunBob**

From my perspective this Kickstarter seems to have even more glaring issues regarding production than Robotech RPG Tactics, Defiance Hardsuits, and gRifts the board game combined. This one looks custom built to add to the bonfire of Kickstarters that failed and backers have no recourse other than to start trying to form a lawsuit. I guess this will go on until everyone on the internet has their one Kickstarter that burned them so hard they refuse to use the platform. So I guess they'll be about 2,500 more people soured after five years caused San Detour is running pretty silent during their own campaign I can only imagine how deep and silent they'll run after the money is in the bank.

**Sarouan**

HaleysRedComet wrote:
What conspiracy?

Some people supporting Sans Detour began spreading that story most of the people being negative are in fact "supporting" the people behind Legends of Signum/Cadwallon website as if they were "hired" to do a campaign with the purpose to sink/hinder SD's Confrontation project.

The few I saw so far were in french : https://www.trictrac.net/forum/sujet/ks-avril-2018-confrontation-classic?page=9&limit=32#post-655eb83228d64494ec7f5b16a393cae64241 et http://confrontation.vraiforum.com/t3912-%5BKS%5D-Confrontation-Classic-%28avril-2018%29-.htm?start=1620

**HaleysRedComet**

Sarouan wrote:
HaleysRedComet wrote:
What conspiracy?

Some people supporting Sans Detour began spreading that story most of the people being negative are in fact "supporting" the people behind Legends of Signum/Cadwallon website as if they were "hired" to do a campaign with the purpose to sink/hinder SD's Confrontation project.

The few I saw so far were in french : https://www.trictrac.net/forum/sujet/ks-avril-2018-confrontation-classic?page=9&limit=32#post-655eb83228d64494ec7f5b16a393cae64241 et http://confrontation.vraiforum.com/t3912-%5BKS%5D-Confrontation-Classic-%28avril-2018%29-.htm?start=1620

I personally find it a little hard to believe that the negativity about the Confrontation KS is being significantly fueled by the Cadwallon crew. I have seen this brought up, but I know that I am not involved with them nor are any of the people I know who have been voicing concerns and criticism about the project.