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Note: I don't have any extra harlequins and I want to field them as the main detachment (all of them) this being the only formations I can build out of the models I own. I have not built the Troupe models yet (I plan to tomorrow) so if you have suggestions on which weapons to give them, I'd love to hear your thoughts. I like the caresses but apparently there's not enough of them in the box set so I plan on giving them a lot of kisses as it seems like the better option compared to the embrace. I could be wrong.

First the list:

1850 Pts - Codex: Harlequins Roster - 1850 - Harlequins - Trueborn

Formation:
1 Cast of Players, 418 pts
11 Troupe (Shuriken Pistol x11; Close Combat Weapon x5; Harlequin's Kiss x6)
1 Troupe Master (Shuriken Pistol; Harlequin's Caress)

1 Inriam's Spectre

1 Shadowseer (Neuro Disruptor; Miststave; Mastery 2)
1 The Mask of Secrets

Formation:
1 Cegorach's Jest, 438 pts
11 Troupe (Shuriken Pistol x11; Close Combat Weapon x5; Harlequin's Kiss x6)
1 Troupe Master (Shuriken Pistol; Harlequin's Caress)

2 Skyweaver (Zephyrglaive x2)

1 Voidweaver (Prismatic Cannon)

Combined Arms Detachment (990 pts)

1 Succubus (Archite Glaive; Webway Portal; Armour of Misery)
1 Succubus (Archite Glaive)

5 Kabalite Trueborn (4x Blaster)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannon x2)

5 Kabalite Trueborn (4x Blaster)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannon x2)

5 Kabalite Trueborn (4x Blaster)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannon x2)

5 Kabalite Warrior
1 Venom (Splinter Cannon x2)

5 Kabalite Warrior
1 Venom (Splinter Cannon x2)

Total Points: 1846 pts


General Tactics:
1. Shadowseer rolls on Telepathy Discipline. Aiming for Invisibility, Terrify, Dominate & Psychic Shriek powers in any combination.
2. Succubus + Succubus + Cast of Players Formation (in reserve) Fear Bomb! They show up and go on a psychic frenzy with -4 LD on their targets while being protected by +2 Cover (shrouded)
3. Blasterborn arrive via Deep Strike in most games.
4. Venom Spam from safe distance and claiming cover saves where ever possible, targeting any and all targets with Ignores Cover special rule as priority.
5. Cegorach's Jest Troupe and Skyweavers are vanguard aiming to launch assaults on turn 2 hopefully. Or used to counter charge potential deep strikers and alpha strikes launched against my skimmers.



My Opponents:
Iron Hands "Fist of Medusa"
Imperial Knight
Imperial Guard
Space Wolves "Deathpack"


Any opinions or advice?

I think loading the Troupes with a few more Caresses is the way to go. At least a few Caresses so you can put reliable hull points on armor or Knights. The Kisses are nice, but I like the ability of Caresses to be a general solution to any problem.

I'm a bit confused....you are suggesting I melee vs knights instead of shooting it down with my 12 Blasters??

I'd think that's what the 12 blasters are for killing any sort of knight. I mean sure its no guarantee and there might be more than 1 knight but i just dont see how a troupe can even think of challenging one in cc.

Personally i think id be better off letting the trueborn handle all armor and the troupes handling infantry.

Hah! Fair enough. I just prefer Caresses as a take all comers solution on the Troupes.

Caress can hurt everything in game, always play with them if you are playing Harlequins from their book.

If you are playing Reborn Warhost THEN you mix with Embrace and Caress.

Caress is one of the strongest melee weapons in game, i have melee Knights down a few times, it's not to hard (5 quins with 5 Caress (1 is Troupe master) is 26 attacks) 1 round of Combat on average will not kill a Knight if you are lucky it will, but WITH HWG's you throw 1-2 (you can slit Shadowseers off in movement and have 2 units now with HWG's) you will easily kill a knight.


Sesne you want to play DE also, you should just play the new Fall of Cadia book, its called a Reborn Warhost

Your Harlequins can go in Raiders (With NS's for 3+ jink) Just watch out for Flamers, now you have 7-10 in a vehicle that will charge on the opponents 1st turn (If they kill hte vehicle in shooting you get to charge sense a unit died within 7" of you). You can also use Eldar Autarch with a Banshee Mask to stop overwatch, a Succubus with Armour of Missery, and a Farseer or Conclave for more psychic support.

You just lose Run and charge, but being able to Charge multi times in Harlequins with good movement/placement is IMO better than Run and Charge.

Example: 4 Embraces on Troupes is 4D3 S6 hits, if that kills something you can now make 1 more charge, if it didnt kill then your Troupe Master has a chance before the other 4 Caress gets to swing. Now that you killed a unit you can make 1 addition charge, BUT only at the initiative you didnt swing with yet, so now you have 4 Troupes with a Caress to finish that unit off.

Before you go a put a bunch of Embraces on your Harlies thinking you can charge and fight twice using Soulburst, be aware that there is currently a lot of debate about whether you can select a unit who fought to use Soulburst as they may or may not still be considered "locked in combat". We'll probably need to wait for an official FAQ.

You can keep the run+charge for harlequins in a Reborn Warhost by keeping them in their formation, and filling the required slots with the succubus/kabalites. You might need to use two Reborn Warhost, I don't know how trueborns really work in that detachment: the kabalite warriors are listed under troops, and have access to every upgrade from the codex, but I'm unsure what happens when they upgrade to truborns as they are not listed in the elite choices.
A MSU army like that can benefit from Soulburst (even if many units will be in transports, which is not the best combo for this detachment).

I think your two clown units will get shredded to pieces most of the time. One will be completely unprotected, and could be destroyed in one round of rapid fire anything. The other one will have shrouded, which might or might not provide better than a 5++, but you'll still have an insane amount of points in T3 models that will DS and stay in the open in the opponent's zone for a whole shooting phase. This sounds pretty damn scary. Veil of Tears would help, but if you DS in the middle of the enemy units, they'll probably be able to move close enough to bypass the veil.

I'd also spend a few points on Haywire grenades on the Jest's master, and to upgrade the Skyweavers to the blades of fate.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Before you go a put a bunch of Embraces on your Harlies thinking you can charge and fight twice using Soulburst, be aware that there is currently a lot of debate about whether you can select a unit who fought to use Soulburst as they may or may not still be considered "locked in combat". We'll probably need to wait for an official FAQ.

You are only consider Locked in combat if you are in base with other players models. Pg 47 "If a unit has one or more models in contact with an enemy model (for any reason), then it is locked in combat"

Once all the models are completely destroyed you are no long in contact so you are no longer in combat, At the same time you completely destroyed a unit (Not being in combat now) you can make an additional action.

So I dont see why this is being argued?

fresus wrote:
You can keep the run+charge for harlequins in a Reborn Warhost by keeping them in their formation, and filling the required slots with the succubus/kabalites. You might need to use two Reborn Warhost, I don't know how trueborns really work in that detachment: the kabalite warriors are listed under troops, and have access to every upgrade from the codex, but I'm unsure what happens when they upgrade to truborns as they are not listed in the elite choices.
A MSU army like that can benefit from Soulburst (even if many units will be in transports, which is not the best combo for this detachment).

I think your two clown units will get shredded to pieces most of the time. One will be completely unprotected, and could be destroyed in one round of rapid fire anything. The other one will have shrouded, which might or might not provide better than a 5++, but you'll still have an insane amount of points in T3 models that will DS and stay in the open in the opponent's zone for a whole shooting phase. This sounds pretty damn scary. Veil of Tears would help, but if you DS in the middle of the enemy units, they'll probably be able to move close enough to bypass the veil.

I'd also spend a few points on Haywire grenades on the Jest's master, and to upgrade the Skyweavers to the blades of fate.

Trueborns are NOT a different unit they are an upgrade to Warriros and that upgrade also makes them elites (Same for the Wyches)

Formations are good and bad for Reborn Warhost, good b.c they keep their benefits bad b.c that is a separate detachment and if that detachement isnt 7+ units they lose out of 2 units soulbursting instead of 1, this is fine for a Large detachement using 1 formation for support, but becareful not to use to many detachments to gain full benefits (Sometimes 2 soulburst actions isnt as good as the formation rules, so there is that too).

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Before you go a put a bunch of Embraces on your Harlies thinking you can charge and fight twice using Soulburst, be aware that there is currently a lot of debate about whether you can select a unit who fought to use Soulburst as they may or may not still be considered "locked in combat". We'll probably need to wait for an official FAQ.

You are only consider Locked in combat if you are in base with other players models. Pg 47 "If a unit has one or more models in contact with an enemy model (for any reason), then it is locked in combat"

Once all the models are completely destroyed you are no long in contact so you are no longer in combat, At the same time you completely destroyed a unit (Not being in combat now) you can make an additional action.

So I dont see why this is being argued?

Not that I have my flag planted on one side of the argument, but the contention is that you are stuck in combat until the end of the phase. The rulebook states that "Units are no longer locked in combat if, at the end of any phase, they no longer have any models in base contact with an enemy model." Thus, even if you kill all your enemies, you are "locked" until the end of the phase. The rulebook gives one way in which you are no longer locked in combat - and that would disallow a unit who wins combat from soulbursting into a second because they killed the unit they were fighting. I'm waiting for the FAQ - it's hard to tell what their intention was, given that they specifically call out units locked in combat as not being able to soulburst.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

fresus wrote:
You can keep the run+charge for harlequins in a Reborn Warhost by keeping them in their formation, and filling the required slots with the succubus/kabalites. You might need to use two Reborn Warhost, I don't know how trueborns really work in that detachment: the kabalite warriors are listed under troops, and have access to every upgrade from the codex, but I'm unsure what happens when they upgrade to truborns as they are not listed in the elite choices.
A MSU army like that can benefit from Soulburst (even if many units will be in transports, which is not the best combo for this detachment).

I think your two clown units will get shredded to pieces most of the time. One will be completely unprotected, and could be destroyed in one round of rapid fire anything. The other one will have shrouded, which might or might not provide better than a 5++, but you'll still have an insane amount of points in T3 models that will DS and stay in the open in the opponent's zone for a whole shooting phase. This sounds pretty damn scary. Veil of Tears would help, but if you DS in the middle of the enemy units, they'll probably be able to move close enough to bypass the veil.

I'd also spend a few points on Haywire grenades on the Jest's master, and to upgrade the Skyweavers to the blades of fate.

Trueborns are NOT a different unit they are an upgrade to Warriros and that upgrade also makes them elites (Same for the Wyches)

Formations are good and bad for Reborn Warhost, good b.c they keep their benefits bad b.c that is a separate detachment and if that detachement isnt 7+ units they lose out of 2 units soulbursting instead of 1, this is fine for a Large detachement using 1 formation for support, but becareful not to use to many detachments to gain full benefits (Sometimes 2 soulburst actions isnt as good as the formation rules, so there is that too).

Yes, but kabalites are only listed in the troop section of the Warhost. So what happens when you upgrade them to trueborns? Do they still count as a troop choice for the detachment, even if they're supposed to become elites? Do they count as an elite selection even if they're not listed as a potential elite choice?

And the Reborn Warhost rules say that units in the formations also count as part of the detachment (even if a unit can normally only be part of a single detachment), so the units in the formation count towards the 7 needed for the second soulburst action.

fresus wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

fresus wrote:
You can keep the run+charge for harlequins in a Reborn Warhost by keeping them in their formation, and filling the required slots with the succubus/kabalites. You might need to use two Reborn Warhost, I don't know how trueborns really work in that detachment: the kabalite warriors are listed under troops, and have access to every upgrade from the codex, but I'm unsure what happens when they upgrade to truborns as they are not listed in the elite choices.
A MSU army like that can benefit from Soulburst (even if many units will be in transports, which is not the best combo for this detachment).

I think your two clown units will get shredded to pieces most of the time. One will be completely unprotected, and could be destroyed in one round of rapid fire anything. The other one will have shrouded, which might or might not provide better than a 5++, but you'll still have an insane amount of points in T3 models that will DS and stay in the open in the opponent's zone for a whole shooting phase. This sounds pretty damn scary. Veil of Tears would help, but if you DS in the middle of the enemy units, they'll probably be able to move close enough to bypass the veil.

I'd also spend a few points on Haywire grenades on the Jest's master, and to upgrade the Skyweavers to the blades of fate.

Trueborns are NOT a different unit they are an upgrade to Warriros and that upgrade also makes them elites (Same for the Wyches)

Formations are good and bad for Reborn Warhost, good b.c they keep their benefits bad b.c that is a separate detachment and if that detachement isnt 7+ units they lose out of 2 units soulbursting instead of 1, this is fine for a Large detachement using 1 formation for support, but becareful not to use to many detachments to gain full benefits (Sometimes 2 soulburst actions isnt as good as the formation rules, so there is that too).

Yes, but kabalites are only listed in the troop section of the Warhost. So what happens when you upgrade them to trueborns? Do they still count as a troop choice for the detachment, even if they're supposed to become elites? Do they count as an elite selection even if they're not listed as a potential elite choice?

And the Reborn Warhost rules say that units in the formations also count as part of the detachment (even if a unit can normally only be part of a single detachment), so the units in the formation count towards the 7 needed for the second soulburst action.

The are still in that detachment its an upgrade, you see this all the time and you never quested it before

Example: a Farseer is upgraded to have a Bike they become a "Farseer Skyrunner" the Skyrunner isnt listed either b.c its an upgrade, its the same thing.

In an 1850pts list one ML2 Psyker isn't worth it, in my opinion. I have found that when it comes to the Psychic phase you need to go in heavy or just ignore it. If you're just taking the Shadowseer because you especially want to run Cast of Players then run ML1 and save 25pts for a Caress and something else.

For example, I have 2 ML2 Shadowseers, a Warlock, a Farseer, and finally Eldrad/Yvraine/Avatar for 10-12 MLs and 10 to 12 +d6 +d3 Warp Charge (along with potentially more from Yvraine and Ynead's Net). This allows me to get off all the powers I want and have a good chance at some denial.

Obviously this is likely far more than you would need given you oppositions but it's something to think about if you're going for a Freakshow/Fear Bomb with the Mask of Secrets and Armour of Misery combo. That -4LD is good but when you can get -4LD on one squad and a few others in the -2LD bubble and be able to hit them all with multiple sources with Psychic Shriek, Laugh of Sorrows, and Mirror of Minds it's amazingly satisfying.

I used this list in a game and lost miserably the units got obliterated by space marines. Overwatch was brutal every single time, my opponent got some really really lucky rolling against the fear bombs only rolling a 10 every time and feel no pain saving on a 4+ thanks to being iron hands in FOM.

The trueborn whiffed so hard 4 blasters couldn't even kill 1 drop pod. It was baaaaaaaaaaaaaad lol

That was game 2. In game 1 I used my other list with incubi against iron hands + space wolves and I damn near tabled him. The thunderwolves were no match for 5 venoms. 2 turns of being shot by 5 venoms brought a full deathpack down to it's last remaining member desperately running away. The harlequins got murdered in this game aswell but the dark elder more than made up and carried the team to near total victory.