Death Guard Tactica

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**Virules**

You guys realize that the pistol has a threat range of 15" + 5" move + 6" from the strat, right? And that isn't counting 3" from getting out of a Rhino with that power armor Chaos Lord or Plague Surgeon. Cheapo Chaos Lord starting in a Rhino for protection has a 29" threat range with that pistol. Easily enough to hit enemy units even if it's the first turn and you go first.

**broxus**

Virules wrote:
You guys realize that the pistol has a threat range of 15" + 5" move + 6" from the strat, right? And that isn't counting 3" from getting out of a Rhino with that power armor Chaos Lord or Plague Surgeon. Cheapo Chaos Lord starting in a Rhino for protection has a 29" threat range with that pistol. Easily enough to hit enemy units even if it's the first turn and you go first.

Yep it really isn’t about the range. I found so many of your weapons are already plague weapons that it really wasn’t worth taking the combo. It honestly depends on your list. Having to position the pistol guy, arch-contaminatior guy, and unit shooting without plague weapons didn’t work out as often as I would like. Even worse I would miss with the gun.

**Jidmah**

Virules wrote:
You guys realize that the pistol has a threat range of 15" + 5" move + 6" from the strat, right? And that isn't counting 3" from getting out of a Rhino with that power armor Chaos Lord or Plague Surgeon. Cheapo Chaos Lord starting in a Rhino for protection has a 29" threat range with that pistol. Easily enough to hit enemy units even if it's the first turn and you go first.

Sure, but that chaos lord is dead the turn after. It's just too much of an investment for something that amounts to dooming a single unit for non-plague weapons. Orks get something better for 2CP and still never use it.

**Radikus**

I've watched 4 9th edition battle reports with DG so far and it's been 1-3. This does kinda worry me since we were in such an under powered place late 8e. However, rumor is that DG get a codex early? Maybe? It would be real sad to go another edition being kinda meh.

**jivardi**

Radikus wrote:
I've watched 4 9th edition battle reports with DG so far and it's been 1-3. This does kinda worry me since we were in such an under powered place late 8e. However, rumor is that DG get a codex early? Maybe? It would be real sad to go another edition being kinda meh.

Which is funny because quite a few of the playtesters seem to think DG are in quite a good spot (and they would have played a lot more than 4 games).

DG were really good in 8th with PA; 9th plays more to their strengths of mid-board capture and hold. I don't see how 9th edition nerfs them. The "magic box" nerf hurts everyone so that's not exclusive to DG.

**buddha**

I think properly but DG are in a great place as above to hold objectives which is the main goal in 9th. That said this play style is going to have to be taken to the extreme to win which means little to no focus on actually killing and instead only on surviving.

This is a difficult and often unfun play style for many which I anticipate as a turn off until a new dex can come out.

**jivardi**

DG have never been super killy and 9th isn't about killing.

Sure, there are secondaries that reward killing but the primaries and most of the secondaries reward holding objectives and that's what DG excel at.

I look at DG as the "tanks" of 40k. Lots of armies are good at killing, lots are good at supporting themselves internally and so can do both.

Plus 20 PM having the stratagem that gives them extra attacks with their plague knives makes PM quite killy.

Not to mention our PBC's don't suffer -1 to shoot anymore when they move, the cap on "to hit" rolls helps us against like harlies and other armies that before could stack multiple "to hit" debuffs.

So PBC's hit harder than in 8th.

I don't play DG to blow my opponent off the table. I play them to take a punch and keep standing. And they do it quite well.

Put a LoC next to some PBC's and they have 3+/4++/5+++ saves if you play the Poxmonger Company and take the relic.

**blackmage**

broxus wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
So, I played a game of mock 9th yesterday and got my ass handed because I failed to properly screen my characters with the new rules.
Lessons need to be learned. Turns out that a unit of 5 plague marines only protects them until you lose three, then they can be shot by anything that wants to shoot them.

Does anyone have an idea how to get multiple primaris units off objectives with pure DG? Outside of charging them with a daemon prince I was kind of at a loss to what to do about them.

Well if you want 14+ dead take a unit of deathshroud as I highlighted in my a analysis above. It is a cheap 210 points for a way to clear off 280 pts of intercessors in one turn. (More like 20 if you wanted to burn some strategems)

In contrast those intercessors would likely cause only 1 wound if they all were able to shoot at the deathshroud in cover.

The scenario you described is exactly why I think the death yard worth taking now to clear and old objectives.

did you ever consider that a skilled opponent will not let you touch something valuable with a unit that move 4" or try luck with a 9" charge? Now deahsroud are playable but i still prefer a 10 men blightlord squad, play just 5 with new DG rules is a no sense actually, I dont know why ppls are always so entusiast with those kind of units, damage comparison is no sense.Deathshroud in 90% of cases will NEVER get into a quality melee they are good at, unless your opponent is lobotomyzed

**BleachHawk**

I keep reading DG is one of the stronger factions or it will be in the new edition (we'll see) and I respect these opinions. Maybe these guys are just way better players then I am or it's in their meta, I don't know. But I couldn't disagree more. I mainly played against Astra Militarum and Ad Mech during all of 8th and I just constantly struggled outside of very small games on smaller boards. I really can't see DG being one of the stronger factions, even after PA which imho brought some relief albeit at an insulting cost in CP.
I've tried daemon engine lists, I've tried blobs of plague marines or smaller squads in Rhinos, I've tried poxwalker lists, all while playing to the objectives. Nothing worked out for me even with lots of terrain, as I was unable to deal any meaningful damage and while DG can take a lot of punches, the enemy (not losing much during my turns) just continued to focus fire units and chip away on my forces.

Being a mid to short ranged faction while lacking speed and ways to improve charges, lacking long-range AT, having horribly overcosted basic units (look at the points evolution of plague marines and they are still overcosted), missing faction abilities on vehicles, having nearly as much scornergy as synergy, having badly ported units from codex CSM, all while recently being forced to fix some problems using CP is just not fun and I repeat, certainly not a strong faction in my book.

Sorry for ranting. Here's hoping a new codex early on in 9th will improve on things.

**blackmage**

DG works only with another detachment were you have access to warptime, who had success with "dg" played lot of forge world units (like Don Hooson) or just dont play in very competitive enviroment, maybe in ITC you had a chance, with GW missions you hadn't and perhaps you still not have as a pure DG. We will see in 9th, maybe in a more elitary oriented system and with more mid field control, maybe DG can improve chances

**Jidmah**

From my experience with mock-9th so far (playing 9th with 20% less points), if have found that much of how we play games today will be invalidated, the game will be a completely new one. Strategies we were using in 9th have become invalid, some outright traps that will cause you to lose the game.
Getting onto objectives and staying there, performing actions and denying your opponent his points will be vastly more important that killing stuff. Smaller boards and missions with central objectives make it much harder to find good spots to deep strike, while terrain makes it easier to have cover and harder to hide out of LOS since magic boxes are gone. Obscuring terrain helps as much as it hurts and ruins now help people getting charged inside them. Charging into a unit of plague marines with a flail that is covered by a foul blightspawn's aura can easily end in that unit being mostly dead before it even gets to strike.

Honestly, from the few games I have played, I find it hard to tell whether DG will play a major or minor role in this new game. When playing against space marines it still feels like they are just better at everything we do, so point costs will play a major role for us, and I don't think we have found the best combos from war of the spider yet.

**Radikus**

BleachHawk wrote:
I keep reading DG is one of the stronger factions or it will be in the new edition (we'll see) and I respect these opinions. Maybe these guys are just way better players then I am or it's in their meta, I don't know. But I couldn't disagree more. I mainly played against Astra Militarum and Ad Mech during all of 8th and I just constantly struggled outside of very small games on smaller boards. I really can't see DG being one of the stronger factions, even after PA which imho brought some relief albeit at an insulting cost in CP.
I've tried daemon engine lists, I've tried blobs of plague marines or smaller squads in Rhinos, I've tried poxwalker lists, all while playing to the objectives. Nothing worked out for me even with lots of terrain, as I was unable to deal any meaningful damage and while DG can take a lot of punches, the enemy (not losing much during my turns) just continued to focus fire units and chip away on my forces.

Being a mid to short ranged faction while lacking speed and ways to improve charges, lacking long-range AT, having horribly overcosted basic units (look at the points evolution of plague marines and they are still overcosted), missing faction abilities on vehicles, having nearly as much scornergy as synergy, having badly ported units from codex CSM, all while recently being forced to fix some problems using CP is just not fun and I repeat, certainly not a strong faction in my book.

Sorry for ranting. Here's hoping a new codex early on in 9th will improve on things.

This I agree with. Just because some play testers claim they are good doesn't mean they are good. My evidence comes directly from watching games played, which the results haven't been great.

**Jidmah**

To be fair, in that game between orks and DG, the ork player did not deserve that win and the DG player played right into those burna bommers. I never get that many hits when my bommers head-but something because my opponents know how to minimize damage from them. He just took them right to the face and hoped that DR would safe him.

**BlaxicanX**

Why are people taking 8th edition rules into consideration at all when trying to gauge whether a faction will be strong or not in ninth? almost none of the things that mattered in 8th edition will matter in 9th.

**Jidmah**

BlaxicanX wrote:
Why are people taking 8th edition rules into consideration at all when trying to gauge whether a faction will be strong or not at night? almost none of the things that mattered in 8th edition will matter in 9th.

IMO it's hard to grasp how massive the impact of all the small changes they have done is on the actual games before you have experienced it.

**Abaddon303**

I'm guessing we really need the day one FAQ but do we know what sort of cover the myphitic blighthauler will grant? I'm inclined to say it really should be dense cover rather than light or heavy. Would mean his buff becomes -1 to hit and would presumably stack with +1 save from light cover ruins etc.
Will make the little trucks pretty useful no?

**Jidmah**

I highly doubt that anything but +1 to armor will come from this.

The -1 AP stratagem, blast and the ability to shoot in combat already makes them nice additions to a DG army.

**broxus**

Jidmah wrote:
I highly doubt that anything but +1 to armor will come from this.

The -1 AP stratagem, blast and the ability to shoot in combat already makes them nice additions to a DG army.

Likely, but it makes sense in literal terms to make them -1 to hit.

Overall, I am really curious how they are going to update all our stuff. IA, tri-lobe, and other abilities are now redundant and useless. I’m hoping our new codex codex gives the following chapter trait:

-Everything gets a 5+ DR in the army and all units can reroll ones (Plague surgeons can allow infantry to reroll 1 & 2s) (most units have already)
-All weapons in the Army are plague weapons (most already are or can be)
-ignore -1 AP weapons (similar to salamanders)

Honestly, those three things are not too powerful. This would keep us somewhat competitive against the SMs who have doctrines and 3 traits. I wish the company’s had maybe some trait they gave all units also. Maybe we get two of the three I mentioned and choosing a company gives the third.

**Pandabeer**

Radikus wrote:
I've watched 4 9th edition battle reports with DG so far and it's been 1-3. This does kinda worry me since we were in such an under powered place late 8e. However, rumor is that DG get a codex early? Maybe? It would be real sad to go another edition being kinda meh.

As has been said at first glance DG seem pretty nice for 9e, especially their vehicles. Plagueburst Crawlers can use their flamers in CC, 5+++ Land Raiders that are much harder to tarpit and tasty 5+++ Defilers. Although a lot will of course also depend on point costs.

**Drakeslayer**

A bit late as always, but I've just had my first game of DG with War of the Spider (been a busy few weekends), still on 8th...

Man I cannot wait for 9th to roll around. Had 5 CP starting out after pre-game purchases. I was running a poxmongers daemon engine list backed up by plague marines in rhinos - aim was the quickly claim the centre ground and hold it (the mission was Take & Hold from the Open War cards... don't ask we were both quite drunk)

I was facing an Imperial Fist gunline complete with Centurions, 3 vindicators, devs, a relic contemptor, and Tor Garadon. The Ironclot Furnace was game-changing, whereas before that list would've blown me off the board, he only managed a couple of wounds on the PBCs. I got a bit greedy and charged the vindicators, locking them all up for a couple of turns, but my main mistake was charging the centurions with the DP. Not actually charging them per se - he wiped them all out in combat which was quite impressive, but my positioning of him afterwards meant that pesky relic contemptor was able to charge him and wipe the floor with my poor DP.
So there goes my Arch-Contaminator Warlord and the Ironclot Furnace. Stupid move - wasn't thinking clearly. And without AC my daemon engines couldn't put a dent into those T8 vindicators.

That was all gravy of course, as the plague marines held the objectives and won me the game - but I had no CP left to spend on them so until 9th rolls around I think I need to resist the urge to spend lots of CP before the game begins.

**BlaxicanX**

Honestly with how many new strategies we got in where the spider I can't even imagine playing 8th edition anymore with death guard. The CP gain it's just too much.

**lare2**

Sounds like you had a great game!

Got an 8th tourney on Saturday and was thinking the same. Have had to really curtail the pregame CP spending and settled on starting with 5. It'll be my last 3 games of 8th and feel that we really need the CP mechanisms of 9th now. We can munch through them pretty quick!

**jivardi**

https://www.goonhammer.com/the-9th-edition-munitorum-field-manual-points-review/

Looks like Bloat drones got hit hard at +16 per model and Deathshroud Terms got a +7ppm hike.

But Myphitics went down overall. PBC increase kinda understandable as they removal of -1 to hit for moving makes them a little more killy.

**BlaxicanX**

Death Guard points

Spoiler:

**Brymm**

After browsing some of the other armies points changes, DG seems to be fine and right in line with the others. The increase in cheap infantry hurts my dreams of viable Poxwalker hordes and I still think Plague Marines cost too much, the rest of the army seems appropriately pointed in comparison to everything else.

I was worried that the board would be filled up with models if they didn’t generally pump up points, and it seems they did. Also that might explain why spammable cheap infantry went up so much, board control in terms of just SPACE is going to be extremely valuable in this new age of mission scoring. So maybe all things considered Poxwalkers still might work?

**Doohicky**

Most of the stuff I am happy enough with.

I think it's fair to say that I am overall positive.

However, some things I'm a bit confused about:
Deathshroud Terms going way back up in points again, despite them not being widely used anyway is strange

Inexorable Advance is pretty useless now.

MBH Putrescent Fog ability hasn't been FAQ'd so no idea what 'cover' means. Is it light cover, heavy cover? Some other cover?

**Virules**

Deathshroud going up so much (or at all) is honestly idiotic, and the PBC jump is too much. The DP and Foetid Bloatdrone changes were probably also unecessary. Other than that, seems fine. Poxwalkers and Cultists are once again way overpriced per model but that happened to a lot of armies (oddly not Astra Militarum, yet again, despite being better models per point!). Plague Marines are super overpriced compared to Intercessors but currently all troops in the game are overpriced compared to Intercessors and Primaris models generally.

**broxus**

Yea troops across the board are overpriced and the new tax to unlock detachments.

**BlaxicanX**

My 20 man PM Squad with two flails and a plasma gun is now 400 points.

**jivardi**

Probably one of the more durable 20 man units in the game.

It'll be hard to shift with shooting and if someone wants to punch it off an objective good luck to them.