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First of all there is NOONE at all to benefit from Morty auras around him - no DP terminators/no drones to enjoy his archcontaminator etc.
Your Plague Marines are pretty insanely expensive for simple 1 wound troops - focus either on CC or shooting - if you do both - then when you shoot you dont swing flail - if you charge into cc you cant shoot blight launchers.
Morty is too big of investement to leave him on his own.
So what is the current rule of thumb for escorting Morty?
Tons of Bloat drones - regardless of weapon they have and Blightlords to teleport in. Deathshroud are sadly very expensive and not so reliable if they fail charge.
Supported by PBCs and Plague Marines ... i think. I will post my "to go " list.
Like generally I have hard time not to justify taking tons of drones especially we all have them from starting box ;p
General idea is to check if your opponent is really okay with ignoring Fleshmower moving to mop his precious units and so he may divert some fire from Morty ;p.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/15 20:35:45
Only tip I would have from my list of meagre experience is to take the plasma guns off the champions - having a blightbringer + blight launchers makes it look like you want to advance while firing, which plasma guns will be unable to do.
Marshal Loss wrote: Only tip I would have from my list of meagre experience is to take the plasma guns off the champions - having a blightbringer + blight launchers makes it look like you want to advance while firing, which plasma guns will be unable to do.
Very good point, I was thinking about it - and 13 points saved is pretty big deal. But then again at some point once you are in rapid fire range - you will stop advancing. Although it's debatable if it's worth to take it or not.
No nope plasma is still too good to give up on Death Guard - I mean blight launcher is better but we still got best plasma range amon all damn factions - so keep it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/15 23:15:43
Totally out of left field here but I'm new to Chaos from my Necrons. I'm starting a DG army and have always wanted to get a knight at some point. Is there any viable reason to take a Chaos Knight along with a DG force?
Dew wrote: Totally out of left field here but I'm new to Chaos from my Necrons. I'm starting a DG army and have always wanted to get a knight at some point. Is there any viable reason to take a Chaos Knight along with a DG force?
I've considered this perhaps to help take the heat off of Mortarion. Hell, maybe run Morty, Magnus, and a Knight in a Superheavy Detachment, and then 500-600 points of whatever else you can fit (maybe cheap HQ and some Foetid Bloat Drones in an Outrider detachment). Could be fun!
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 12 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
Mr_Rose wrote: Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
Dew wrote: Totally out of left field here but I'm new to Chaos from my Necrons. I'm starting a DG army and have always wanted to get a knight at some point. Is there any viable reason to take a Chaos Knight along with a DG force?
I've considered this perhaps to help take the heat off of Mortarion. Hell, maybe run Morty, Magnus, and a Knight in a Superheavy Detachment, and then 500-600 points of whatever else you can fit (maybe cheap HQ and some Foetid Bloat Drones in an Outrider detachment). Could be fun!
I was thinking about Land Raider packed with some cool elites and deathshroud. But then again they will just whatever doesnt have miasma ;x
So I have 402 points left, but only +1CP. I'm thinking 3 MSU cultist squads for a battalion, but I dont know what other HQs to bring. Probably Typhus just cause he is the most effective overall.
Are death guard reasonably competitive without Morty? Personally I hate this growing trend of massive iconic models like mag, mort, knights etc. becoming lynchpins for armies.
Actually, I think a nurgle daemons detachment would be better. Does anyone know if nurglings count as troops?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
snottlebocket wrote: Are death guard reasonably competitive without Morty? Personally I hate this growing trend of massive iconic models like mag, mort, knights etc. becoming lynchpins for armies.
Hard to say right now with how new everything is, but probably not top-tier tourney competitive. Bloat Drones and Morty seem amazing, but nothing else stands out as tournement level yet. Most unit seem pretty solid and definitely fluffy though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/16 06:36:10
TasadarTheMadBear wrote: Actually, I think a nurgle daemons detachment would be better. Does anyone know if nurglings count as troops?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
snottlebocket wrote: Are death guard reasonably competitive without Morty? Personally I hate this growing trend of massive iconic models like mag, mort, knights etc. becoming lynchpins for armies.
Hard to say right now with how new everything is, but probably not top-tier tourney competitive. Bloat Drones and Morty seem amazing, but nothing else stands out as tournement level yet. Most unit seem pretty solid and definitely fluffy though.
I love fluffy, unfortunately my local meta is such that trying to play fluffy leads nowhere. Most people here are happy to play a knight at 1k and girly man at anything over 1k.
My brother and I were debating whether or not the 1 CP usage of blowing up a nurgle vehicle you own without rolling a dice is overpowered or not. I use to reroll explosion tables with a 1 in 6 chance. He states players will bait and play you around the cp. I said that's a good thing so you force them
to play in a manner which can save you a cp. It's either that or lose a whole squad to a close combat hellbrute. Everyone at the store was laughing because we all had suicide explosion experiences in the past losing entire chaos lords, 30 ork boyz, and more in the past to explosions. Any thoughts?
Marshal Loss wrote: Only tip I would have from my list of meagre experience is to take the plasma guns off the champions - having a blightbringer + blight launchers makes it look like you want to advance while firing, which plasma guns will be unable to do.
Very good point, I was thinking about it - and 13 points saved is pretty big deal. But then again at some point once you are in rapid fire range - you will stop advancing. Although it's debatable if it's worth to take it or not.
No nope plasma is still too good to give up on Death Guard - I mean blight launcher is better but we still got best plasma range amon all damn factions - so keep it.
This is the reason why I will be running 3 plasma in my 5 man PM squads. I would love to use all blightlaunchers but since it is not an option it does not make sense to mix and match. I would always be losing out on one of my chapter traits if I mix weapons. I guess I can't complain having 3 plasma in a T5 unit that only costs 134pts is a steal.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TasadarTheMadBear wrote: Trying to figure out a 2k list for Morty, I'll be using Magnus this weekend to proxy him. So far I have the following:
So I have 402 points left, but only +1CP. I'm thinking 3 MSU cultist squads for a battalion, but I dont know what other HQs to bring. Probably Typhus just cause he is the most effective overall.
-2x Bloat drones w/fleshmowers=268pts not 272.
-Why take the Blight launcher on a close combat terminator squad? Seems I would just go with the cheap anti infantry combo bolters at 228pts
-I think with the points reduction taking the hellforge swords is much better on the talons (also put the suppurating plate relic on him
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/16 09:47:43
Marshal Loss wrote: Only tip I would have from my list of meagre experience is to take the plasma guns off the champions - having a blightbringer + blight launchers makes it look like you want to advance while firing, which plasma guns will be unable to do.
Very good point, I was thinking about it - and 13 points saved is pretty big deal. But then again at some point once you are in rapid fire range - you will stop advancing. Although it's debatable if it's worth to take it or not.
No nope plasma is still too good to give up on Death Guard - I mean blight launcher is better but we still got best plasma range amon all damn factions - so keep it.
This is the reason why I will be running 3 plasma in my 5 man PM squads. I would love to use all blightlaunchers but since it is not an option it does not make sense to mix and match. I would always be losing out on one of my chapter traits if I mix weapons. I guess I can't complain having 3 plasma in a T5 unit that only costs 134pts is a steal.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TasadarTheMadBear wrote: Trying to figure out a 2k list for Morty, I'll be using Magnus this weekend to proxy him. So far I have the following:
So I have 402 points left, but only +1CP. I'm thinking 3 MSU cultist squads for a battalion, but I dont know what other HQs to bring. Probably Typhus just cause he is the most effective overall.
-2x Bloat drones w/fleshmowers=268pts not 272.
-Why take the Blight launcher on a close combat terminator squad? Seems I would just go with the cheap anti infantry combo bolters at 228pts
-I think with the points reduction taking the hellforge swords is much better on the talons (also put the suppurating plate relic on him
I would take this blight launcher myself too for following reason - he still can hold CC weapon, this is very resilient unit so extra 14 pts won't hurt. You can and probably most of the time you will fail deep strike charge so you may be shooting for ~~2 turns very often. And blight launcher is pretty damn good weapon.I talk about Blightlords of course.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/16 12:06:51
snottlebocket wrote: Are death guard reasonably competitive without Morty? Personally I hate this growing trend of massive iconic models like mag, mort, knights etc. becoming lynchpins for armies.
Define reasonably competitive. Do you want to go 2-1 or have a decent shot at winning a RTT? Then yeah you're fine. It depends how far you want to be able to go. There are better mixed or pure CSM lists than a pure death guard list can have, and it's not just because of Magnus. It's mostly the units that actually get work done that death guard don't have access to - Oblits, Zerkers, Noise Marines, and their associated strategems.
In my personal RTT meta, there are a lot of top tier tournament players, so I would likely go 1-2 at most RTTs if I brought a pure DG army. But I think they are holier mid tier to lower top tier. Can go toe to toe with any army that isn't IG or CSM and do just fine - it's just that those armies tend to be what the competitive tournament players are using right now.
EDIT: FYI my answer is about pure death guard in general. Just tossing morty in does not fix that
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/16 12:42:24
snottlebocket wrote: Are death guard reasonably competitive without Morty? Personally I hate this growing trend of massive iconic models like mag, mort, knights etc. becoming lynchpins for armies.
Define reasonably competitive. Do you want to go 2-1 or have a decent shot at winning a RTT? Then yeah you're fine. It depends how far you want to be able to go. There are better mixed or pure CSM lists than a pure death guard list can have, and it's not just because of Magnus. It's mostly the units that actually get work done that death guard don't have access to - Oblits, Zerkers, Noise Marines, and their associated strategems.
In my personal RTT meta, there are a lot of top tier tournament players, so I would likely go 1-2 at most RTTs if I brought a pure DG army. But I think they are holier mid tier to lower top tier. Can go toe to toe with any army that isn't IG or CSM and do just fine - it's just that those armies tend to be what the competitive tournament players are using right now.
EDIT: FYI my answer is about pure death guard in general. Just tossing morty in does not fix that
No tournaments. I just don't want to feel like I'm just a punching bag. People are pretty cheese oriented here.
1. DP wings seems to be free (until the faq i assume?)
2. DP, best trait? i was thinking 4+ DR
3. Best way to do Biologus + cmd pt for grenade death spam? was thinking 9 PM with him in a rhino, charge it up there jump out and fun times
4. Blight Hauler, 142pts what are we thinking? worth it?
2k first draft (rework of models i'v had for 15years.. so kinda bit set in stone for me
So I have 402 points left, but only +1CP. I'm thinking 3 MSU cultist squads for a battalion, but I dont know what other HQs to bring. Probably Typhus just cause he is the most effective overall.
-2x Bloat drones w/fleshmowers=268pts not 272.
-Why take the Blight launcher on a close combat terminator squad? Seems I would just go with the cheap anti infantry combo bolters at 228pts
-I think with the points reduction taking the hellforge swords is much better on the talons (also put the suppurating plate relic on him
-99+24+12=136x2=272
-I think the blight launcher is a steal at 14 points and adds some firepower incase they fail their charge (which there is a solid chamce of them doing).
-Definitely putting the plate on him, can't say I agree on the sword though. Those extra attacks seem worth it, but thats just my opinion.
Still wondering what to do with my remaining 400 points. I could save them for summoning daemons (mainly a herald) or I could just add a daemon of nurgle battalion for epidemus, a herald, some nurglings, and +3CP. I'm worried the herald will fall too far behind all my DG sto support them throughout the game. Any thoughts on what to spend the last bit of points on?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/16 16:27:24
Has anyone made some calculations on when blight launchers are better than plasma guns on plague marines? i'm having trouble finding reasons to field blight launchers :( (and they are soo cool )
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/16 17:08:31
Milkshaker wrote: Has anyone made some calculations on when blight launchers are better than plasma guns on plague marines? i'm having trouble finding reasons to field blight launchers :( (and they are soo cool )
And I have trouble finding situation when plasma is better. Pro tip - start calculating MANDATORY prince/lord to babysit anyone who shoots plasma - tons of points.
Blight launcher got average 2 damage at 24" after advancing with need to worry about exploding.
People underestimate cost of such lord/prince and being forced to actually stick with this marine unit.
Also stop thinking it's perfect scenario - your lord can get killed or be forced to do other stuff. Blight launcher is regardless what you do - always powerful - for mere 1 point more.
Last argument is that it can shoot even from turn 1 - you can easily advance and send 2 shoots at 24". Where plasma may get lucky if it can dish 1 shoot - after just moving.
Yet another argument can be - against Ravenguard/Alpha Legion any to hit modifiers plasma hands down wins contest to be worst weapon in 40k. When again Blight Launcher doesn't care.'
And it's pretty neat against high toughness targets aswell thanks to wound rerolls and with archcontaminator (you dont really need this guy - but he helps) you wound T8 targets with 55% chance. Again without risking to die etc.
By taking launcher you just pay for flexibility and it's flexible as hell.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/16 17:25:41
Milkshaker wrote: Has anyone made some calculations on when blight launchers are better than plasma guns on plague marines? i'm having trouble finding reasons to field blight launchers :( (and they are soo cool )
And I have trouble finding situation when plasma is better. Pro tip - start calculating MANDATORY prince/lord to babysit anyone who shoots plasma - tons of points.
Blight launcher got average 2 damage at 24" after advancing with need to worry about exploding.
People underestimate cost of such lord/prince and being forced to actually stick with this marine unit.
Also stop thinking it's perfect scenario - your lord can get killed or be forced to do other stuff. Blight launcher is regardless what you do - always powerful - for mere 1 point more.
Last argument is that it can shoot even from turn 1 - you can easily advance and send 2 shoots at 24". Where plasma may get lucky if it can dish 1 shoot - after just moving.
Yet another argument can be - against Ravenguard/Alpha Legion any to hit modifiers plasma hands down wins contest to be worst weapon in 40k. When again Blight Launcher doesn't care.'
And it's pretty neat against high toughness targets aswell thanks to wound rerolls and with archcontaminator (you dont really need this guy - but he helps) you wound T8 targets with 55% chance. Again without risking to die etc.
By taking launcher you just pay for flexibility and it's flexible as hell.
Versus 2 wound targets the supercharged plasma has a significant edge eg. 69.4% v 34.6% to kill an undamaged Primaris once hit. In general I agree with Mario, in the games I have played so far keeping the PM in the DP bubble all game hasn't been a viable option.
Milkshaker wrote: Has anyone made some calculations on when blight launchers are better than plasma guns on plague marines? i'm having trouble finding reasons to field blight launchers :( (and they are soo cool )
And I have trouble finding situation when plasma is better. Pro tip - start calculating MANDATORY prince/lord to babysit anyone who shoots plasma - tons of points.
Blight launcher got average 2 damage at 24" after advancing with need to worry about exploding.
People underestimate cost of such lord/prince and being forced to actually stick with this marine unit.
Also stop thinking it's perfect scenario - your lord can get killed or be forced to do other stuff. Blight launcher is regardless what you do - always powerful - for mere 1 point more.
Last argument is that it can shoot even from turn 1 - you can easily advance and send 2 shoots at 24". Where plasma may get lucky if it can dish 1 shoot - after just moving.
Yet another argument can be - against Ravenguard/Alpha Legion any to hit modifiers plasma hands down wins contest to be worst weapon in 40k. When again Blight Launcher doesn't care.'
And it's pretty neat against high toughness targets aswell thanks to wound rerolls and with archcontaminator (you dont really need this guy - but he helps) you wound T8 targets with 55% chance. Again without risking to die etc.
By taking launcher you just pay for flexibility and it's flexible as hell.
Versus 2 wound targets the supercharged plasma has a significant edge eg. 69.4% v 34.6% to kill an undamaged Primaris once hit. In general I agree with Mario, in the games I have played so far keeping the PM in the DP bubble all game hasn't been a viable option.
Well I never said plasma under prefered conditions doesn't rock . There are reasons why it's considered very powerful and op weapon in 8th. But still we got access to alternative that is very potent and not reliable on rerolling 1's ... i dont like things that only work under perfect conditions.
Someone can ruin your day like alpha legion . Where is your plasma now hehe.
I'd rather run plasma with a unit I can more easily position, like our terminators, than on normal plague marines myself. I've found the 18" RF works well for deepstriking, as it isn't hard to bubble wrap so that you aren't in 12" of juicy targets post deepstrike, but trickier with 18".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/16 19:05:17
The point is to screen the poxwalkers with cloud of flies and rapidly advance under noxius blightbringer.
But most likely first turns opponent will have to deal with decimators and drones.
Crawlers for poking units behind los blocks and general back line fire support.
I would love to include dragon, but can't afford droping anything apart from the drones.
Probably will swap drones for spawns anyway to get objsec or just leave 103 points for summoning.
Or drop surgeon and drones for another crawler and couple cultists.
For extra lulz i will test making DP the warlord and placing him with arch-contaminator near the crawlers.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/09/16 20:21:40
I'm thinking that they could compete with Cultists now for troop tax units if you're looking to build up to a Battalion or Brigade detachment. Plus the standard Nurgling models seem to fit a Death Guard army more than the standard GW cultist models.
Quick aside, my first question is how do they (and other fw models for that matter) fit into detachments? Do I need to take a separate detachment or do they fit into my Death Guard ones. I've tried to figure it out and still don't know. Probably missing something obvious somewhere...
If they do in fact fit in, they seem like an interesting option to me. You get +1 bs, 2 extra wounds, carrion haunter, extra weapon and regeneration but lose out on plague weapons and cost a little more. Guessing they might not benefit from other auras as well and cost a little more than the new drones. Just wondering if anyone had given them a go yet.
Bjt0012 wrote: Any thoughts on the FW Greater Blight Drone?
Quick aside, my first question is how do they (and other fw models for that matter) fit into detachments? Do I need to take a separate detachment or do they fit into my Death Guard ones. I've tried to figure it out and still don't know. Probably missing something obvious somewhere...
If they do in fact fit in, they seem like an interesting option to me. You get +1 bs, 2 extra wounds, carrion haunter, extra weapon and regeneration but lose out on plague weapons and cost a little more. Guessing they might not benefit from other auras as well and cost a little more than the new drones. Just wondering if anyone had given them a go yet.
The FAQ answers that question:
"You can only choose for a unit to be from the Death Guard Legion if it has the Nurgle keyword, or if it has the <Mark of Chaos> keyword and you choose to replace that with Nurgle. You cannot choose for a Hellforged Rapier Battery, a Chaos Hellwright or
a Chaos Hellwright on Dark Abeyant to be from the Death Guard."
So the:
Blight Drone
Decimator
Plague Hulk of Nurgle
Contemptor Dread
Land Raider Proteus
Land Raider Achilles
Scorpius
Sicaran
Predator
Spartan
Deredeo
Leviathan
Dreadclaw
Kharybdis
Etc can all be in a death guard detachment.
Not really a whole lot of benefit to that other than not needing to run a CSM Detachment, having the ability to use DG strategems, and (possibly) having deredeos and leviathans use the DG move and fire heavy weapons without penalty chapter tactic. That should be FAQ'd honestly.
Yeah, given that they did FAQ it to allow Legion traits from the CSM book to affect FW dreadnoughts, it's an important question to ask if it's intended for the Death Guard version to work for them.
I'm thinking that they could compete with Cultists now for troop tax units if you're looking to build up to a Battalion or Brigade detachment. Plus the standard Nurgling models seem to fit a Death Guard army more than the standard GW cultist models.
The demons don't have the death guard keyword, only the nurgle keyword. Using them as tax would lose you the death guard benefits.
5 blight lord terminators with plasma combi's + a chaos lord termi with plasma combi (for rerolling those 1's when overcharging)... too expensive or an efficient use of deep striking?
~15000 Astra Militarum: 
~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: 
~1900 | Imperial Knights: 
~2000 | Sisters of Battle: 
~3500 | Leagues of Votann: 
~1200 | Tyranids: 
~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: 
)
. There are reasons why it's considered very powerful and 
(Alpha Legion - 2,000 Points Painted)
Favourite Opponent - Local RTT Dec. 2018 
(Vior'la Sept - 1,000 Points Painted)
