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Morty is insane!

Able to throw 18 to-hit dice on reroll-able 2s and reroll-able 2s to wound.

Take an ideal fight phase scenario against conscripts and a warhound titan:
- Morty not degraded yet.
- Morty next to deathshroud and Herald of Nurgle.
- Morty with prescience and that 7+ mortal wound psychic power.
- Morty with Vets of the Long War. (for a +2 to wound roll)

21 dice with ~21 hits and 7 "Death to false emperor" for another 21 dice to roll. ~41 hits. and then ~40 wounds and 13 mortal wounds.

If against Warhound titan, don't bother with the other mode since you super buffed him. 12 (mortal or otherwise) wounds needed to get through the first level void shield (4+), 15 wounds to get through second level (5+) and the remaining 28 dmg is enough to wreck the Warhound.

TELL ME WHAT IMPERIUM UNIT WILL SURVIVE. (in a 2000 point game)

Calvhalla wrote:
Morty is insane!

Able to throw 18 to-hit dice on reroll-able 2s and reroll-able 2s to wound.

Take an ideal fight phase scenario against conscripts and a warhound titan:
- Morty not degraded yet.
- Morty next to deathshroud and Herald of Nurgle.
- Morty with prescience and that 7+ mortal wound psychic power.
- Morty with Vets of the Long War. (for a +2 to wound roll)

21 dice with ~21 hits and 7 "Death to false emperor" for another 21 dice to roll. ~41 hits. and then ~40 wounds and 13 mortal wounds.

Are you adding an attack for the =1 bonus the Deathshroud have? That applies to every character except Morty.

He's stiill preposterously destructive, though

nfe wrote:

Calvhalla wrote:
Morty is insane!

Able to throw 18 to-hit dice on reroll-able 2s and reroll-able 2s to wound.

Take an ideal fight phase scenario against conscripts and a warhound titan:
- Morty not degraded yet.
- Morty next to deathshroud and Herald of Nurgle.
- Morty with prescience and that 7+ mortal wound psychic power.
- Morty with Vets of the Long War. (for a +2 to wound roll)

21 dice with ~21 hits and 7 "Death to false emperor" for another 21 dice to roll. ~41 hits. and then ~40 wounds and 13 mortal wounds.

Are you adding an attack for the =1 bonus the Deathshroud have? That applies to every character except Morty.

He's stiill preposterously destructive, though

I did. Ok, maybe he won't kill a Warhound in a turn then. Disgustingly Destructive.

Don't forget to give morty the +7 buff from Epidemius if you want ideal fighting conditions. I ran a CHAOS army with DG and Daemons, mostly daemon engines and epidemius. I think Epi+morty will be a force to be reckoned with.

 lessthanjeff wrote:

Funnily enough, if we're comparing 3 plasma guns to 2 blight launchers against meq, then plasma outdamages significantly from the 1-23" range, they are actually the same from 23-29 inches, and then blight launchers will win out from the 29-35 range.

Am I missing something here? You're comparing 41 points of plasma (combi + 2 plas on a PM squad?) against 28 points of blight launchers. Of course the plasma should do better. The real comparison is 1 plasma + 2 blighter launchers vs. 3 plasma. I haven't run the number so the plasma could still be better.

Calvhalla wrote:
Morty is insane!

Yeah insanely good at dying in one turn. I seriously doubt any seriously competitive army list will include him unless its something other than Deathguard.

I knew he was a trap the moment they announced he was the first release.

Sweet model, but there are far better things to spend your 470 points on.

 XT-1984 wrote:

Calvhalla wrote:
Morty is insane!

Yeah insanely good at dying in one turn. I seriously doubt any seriously competitive army list will include him unless its something other than Deathguard.

I knew he was a trap the moment they announced he was the first release.

Sweet model, but there are far better things to spend your 470 points on.

Yeah getting over to the Titan in that example is hilarious. What you think a TITAN is just going to let you waltz up and hit you with a primarch?

So what is a competitive list looking like now?

 XT-1984 wrote:

Calvhalla wrote:
Morty is insane!

Yeah insanely good at dying in one turn. I seriously doubt any seriously competitive army list will include him unless its something other than Deathguard.

I knew he was a trap the moment they announced he was the first release.

Sweet model, but there are far better things to spend your 470 points on.

Dunno... tag team him with Magnus.

Which poison would you choose?

 Luciferian wrote:

 Mayk0l wrote:
Question guys.
The codex says I can take a Flail on one of the Blightlord Terminators. Does this include the champion?

Id argue yes because he is a blightlord terminator (datasheet name) and no because he's actually called a Blightlord Champion and wargear options for champions are usually mentioned separately.

Thanks!

It's the latter. As you say, Blightlord Terminators and Blightlord Champions are specifically distinct and do not have the same wargear options.

Well that was the tipping point for me. After this revelation I won't being buying the termie kit. However the death shroud appear more enticing now with the champion taking dual plaguespurts and deepstriking a chaos termie lord with arch-contaminator WL trait and a balesword next to them, maybe throw in typhus and have all the characters getting +1A. However I keep foreseeing the same problem, how will they ever make it into melee or even pistol range? As of now I won't be getting any termies unless I decide in the future I need to soften up my lists really badly.

The only viability I see with any termies are blightlords kitted purely for ranged, maybe just purely stock with combi-bolters is the best option, 20 shots at 18" range, not too shabby. Fairly cheap and efficient for what it is, but quite boring.

 XT-1984 wrote:

Calvhalla wrote:
Morty is insane!

Yeah insanely good at dying in one turn. I seriously doubt any seriously competitive army list will include him unless its something other than Deathguard.

I knew he was a trap the moment they announced he was the first release.

Sweet model, but there are far better things to spend your 470 points on.

I say this with all the love and respect in the world:

You are 100% wrong.

It's not that DG don't have good other options - they absolutely do. But the meta right now, competitively speaking, is horde. If you bring all the guns necessary to kill morty in one turn, especially if you go second, you probably are going to lose the game because you tailored against him and can't beat the hordes of models bearing down on you.

Morty is GREAT in the competitive scene because he is great against the meta of hordes right now. The only thing against Morty is that he can't be included in a battalion, so he eats up valuable CP by simply being in your army. The other knock on him is that Magnus is great, not because of his amazing durability and cc prowess, but as a support caster. Casting warptime and prescience with amazing reliability is absolutely not to be underestimated. And late game, of course he can slap stuff around in CC too. The reason why this is a problem for Morty is for the same reason that Morty's inclusion in an army in the first place is somewhat problematic - lack of CP. Especially if you want to run two super heavy auxiliary detachments and a battalion on the side, you're capped at 6 (or 7 or 8 if you do supreme command shenanigans, but that's too HQ heavy to be competitive). The only other option is a triple super heavy detachment with both of them and some other super heavy. But that's an issue because then you have no points left over for other things at 2k.

So yeah, a lot of competitive CSM lists will continue to take Magnus because those lists are no worse today than they were yesterday. But you can absolutely make a very competitive list with Morty, as long as you don't include too many Death Guard units that aren't Typhus or Poxwalkers. Or any at all. Putting Morty in place of Magnus in a competitive CSM list, as long as you adjust accordingly to make sure you still have Ahriman, is absolutely a viable tactic. It's probably what I'll do with the BFS GT next month. Or bring 3 super heavies. Who knows?

Calvhalla wrote:
Morty is insane!

Able to throw 18 to-hit dice on reroll-able 2s and reroll-able 2s to wound.

Take an ideal fight phase scenario against conscripts and a warhound titan:
- Morty not degraded yet.
- Morty next to deathshroud and Herald of Nurgle.
- Morty with prescience and that 7+ mortal wound psychic power.
- Morty with Vets of the Long War. (for a +2 to wound roll)

21 dice with ~21 hits and 7 "Death to false emperor" for another 21 dice to roll. ~41 hits. and then ~40 wounds and 13 mortal wounds.

If against Warhound titan, don't bother with the other mode since you super buffed him. 12 (mortal or otherwise) wounds needed to get through the first level void shield (4+), 15 wounds to get through second level (5+) and the remaining 28 dmg is enough to wreck the Warhound.

TELL ME WHAT IMPERIUM UNIT WILL SURVIVE. (in a 2000 point game)

It was already mentioned before in this thread <smug because it was me> ).

But yeah he got some crazy damage possibilties that no other unit in this game has.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 XT-1984 wrote:

Calvhalla wrote:
Morty is insane!

Yeah insanely good at dying in one turn. I seriously doubt any seriously competitive army list will include him unless its something other than Deathguard.

I knew he was a trap the moment they announced he was the first release.

Sweet model, but there are far better things to spend your 470 points on.

Yeah sadly ... 470 points and he is not that much more resillient than Magnus, in fact if you go 2nd at least Magnus can sit in changeling range.
Morty gotta hide his bigass model.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
So what is a competitive list looking like now?

You want to go pure death guard? If so, I'd do something like:

Typhus
Necrosius

Tallyman

20 poxwalkers
20 poxwalkers
20 poxwalkers

Daemon Prince
I really want an exalted champion but probably not worth giving up obsec so I guess a Lord

40 cultists
40 cultists
10 cultists

5 blight lord terminators
3-4 blight drones
3 plague crawlers
5 man havoc squad


Mortarion

Tbh I have no idea how many points that is, but it feels roughly like 2000

Havocs? Really now? and how would you kit out the terminators?

GorillaWarfare wrote:

 lessthanjeff wrote:

Funnily enough, if we're comparing 3 plasma guns to 2 blight launchers against meq, then plasma outdamages significantly from the 1-23" range, they are actually the same from 23-29 inches, and then blight launchers will win out from the 29-35 range.

Am I missing something here? You're comparing 41 points of plasma (combi + 2 plas on a PM squad?) against 28 points of blight launchers. Of course the plasma should do better. The real comparison is 1 plasma + 2 blighter launchers vs. 3 plasma. I haven't run the number so the plasma could still be better.

If you look at the other posts, I ran the earlier comparisons of 2 plasma guns vs 2 blight launchers and the plasma guns outdamage when in rapid fire range even without overcharging for point comparison purposes.

That discussion you quoted was based on my earlier comments that I don't want to run 2 blightlaunchers and a plasma gun in the squad because I still wouldn't want to advance and shoot if I paid for a plasma gun. To me, the choice is running 3 plasma guns (no combi needed, the champ can take a regular plasma gun too) to maximize damage or 2 blight launchers to focus on more distant targets. It's not about the point difference as the direct damage comparisons were already given.

 luke1705 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
So what is a competitive list looking like now?

You want to go pure death guard? If so, I'd do something like:

Typhus
Necrosius

Tallyman

20 poxwalkers
20 poxwalkers
20 poxwalkers

Daemon Prince
I really want an exalted champion but probably not worth giving up obsec so I guess a Lord

40 cultists
40 cultists
10 cultists

5 blight lord terminators
3-4 blight drones
3 plague crawlers
5 man havoc squad


Mortarion

Tbh I have no idea how many points that is, but it feels roughly like 2000

More like under 3k. lol

morty 475
blightlords 280+
3+ blight 450-500
3+ plague crawler 450+
Typhus + DP = 360

lol didnt even count the men.

NurglesR0T wrote:
Hey everyone, if I took a Sorcerer on Palanquin of Nurgle (thanks to index faq, he get's DG keyword) would he get access to Dark Hereticus or Contagion? That might be a decent way of getting warp time access with a DG psyker.

Personally I would say that he must take Contagion like the other DG Sorcerers' in the codex, but according to the index rules, you take the datasheet from the index, which in this case would be Dark Hereticus.

what's everyone's thoughts on that?

Another good way would be this: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/739941.page

It would let you give Warptime to any Death Guard psyker. Thinking this would be great against Ynarri.

 luke1705 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
So what is a competitive list looking like now?

You want to go pure death guard? If so, I'd do something like:

Typhus
Necrosius

Tallyman

20 poxwalkers
20 poxwalkers
20 poxwalkers

Daemon Prince
I really want an exalted champion but probably not worth giving up obsec so I guess a Lord

40 cultists
40 cultists
10 cultists

5 blight lord terminators
3-4 blight drones
3 plague crawlers
5 man havoc squad


Mortarion

Tbh I have no idea how many points that is, but it feels roughly like 2000

And I would never want to paint that many anything ever. Any good DG lists with actual Plague Marines? lol

 luke1705 wrote:

You want to go pure death guard? If so, I'd do something like:
[...]
Necrosius
[...]

Out of curiosity, why Necrosius instead of Plague Surgeons? Each is half the cost and allow all Death Guard units to reroll 1's for their Disgustingly Resilient rolls, not just Pox Walkers. The only advantage I can see for Necrosius is that he offers psychic support and fills an HQ slot while Plague Surgeons are Elites (no idea how to take advantage of his Arch-Sorcerer of the Tainted ability).

That aside, I'd probably add the Blightspawn to the list of hoard support units. The Unholy Stench ability looks like a huge boon for the slow-moving pox walkers since it cancels some of the threat by opposing charges and shuts off always swings first abilities.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:


And I would never want to paint that many anything ever. Any good DG lists with actual Plague Marines? lol

I can totally respect that. I have people for that

Can you kill 100 models? If the answer to that is "I hope no one plays a horde army" then you're in for a sad surprise in the competitive scene.

Death guard struggle against hordes, and poxwalkers are great answers to that. It's not the only answer, but an elite army has to make sure that they have an answer, especially in this meta


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Strat_N8 wrote:


Out of curiosity, why Necrosius instead of Plague Surgeons? Each is half the cost and allow all Death Guard units to reroll 1's for their Disgustingly Resilient rolls, not just Pox Walkers. The only advantage I can see for Necrosius is that he offers psychic support and fills an HQ slot while Plague Surgeons are Elites (no idea how to take advantage of his Arch-Sorcerer of the Tainted ability).

That aside, I'd probably add the Blightspawn to the list of hoard support units. The Unholy Stench ability looks like a huge boon for the slow-moving pox walkers since it cancels some of the threat by opposing charges and shuts off always swings first abilities.

Not quite half the cost. Necrosius gives you a sorceror (of nurgle, admittedly) as well as a surgeon in an HQ slot (yes that is a big deal for death guard) for barely more than just a sorceror. One thousand percent worth it even if the tainted ability means literally nothing (which is how I've been playing it)

Blightspawn is pretty unimpressive imo. It doesn't matter if "always goes first" gets turned off unless:

1) you plan on couteractivating for 2 CP

And

2) they charged at least one other unit

Even if it wasn't that situational...meh. Faster poxwalkers is nice though


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 techsoldaten wrote:

NurglesR0T wrote:
Hey everyone, if I took a Sorcerer on Palanquin of Nurgle (thanks to index faq, he get's DG keyword) would he get access to Dark Hereticus or Contagion? That might be a decent way of getting warp time access with a DG psyker.

Personally I would say that he must take Contagion like the other DG Sorcerers' in the codex, but according to the index rules, you take the datasheet from the index, which in this case would be Dark Hereticus.

what's everyone's thoughts on that?

Another good way would be this: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/739941.page

It would let you give Warptime to any Death Guard psyker. Thinking this would be great against Ynarri.

Not saying that that's gaming for advantage, but it's enough in the grey area that I personally wouldn't do it unless an FAQ came out confirming that it works

Alright so I've been number crunching, and I noticed a few things:

We have generally awful anti infantry and horde options. Even the plague drone struggles due to pricing. As far as I can tell, cultists with autoguns and heavy stunners taking advantage of our legion tactic are probably our best anti infantry unit. Poxwalkers are also not awful, but suffer from needing the enemy to come to them if you want them to do anything.

I've also become less impressed as I actually broke down our unique units and begin looking at what they offered for cost. Blight crawlers were the only really good ones, and they need a chaos lord with the plague weapon boosting WT to really work well. Haulers aren't very good, honestly be better to just toss your infantry in a rhino if you were worried about them getting killed. Drones are alright but honestly probably outperformed by a properly outfitted helbrute most of the time. Our terminators aren't very good, deathshroud being 200+ points for ablative wounds and blightlords lacking everything that makes normal CSM terminators good. Their only compensation being durability, so a cheap unit can be a decent distraction I guess.

Our characters are a little better? 9 PM and the grenade dude in a rhino isn't bad with the stratagem. Tallyman works great boosting a poxwalker screen (way better than typhus) and his ability. Morty is solid as well... but works better with almost any other army supporting him.

I'll be buying almost all of the models eventually, as I love their looks, but I am disappointed by the rules that go with them so far.

Poxwalkers are absolutely insane, especially with the stratagem. No other weakling unit in the game screams "Murder Me" like these guys do. With buff auras and abilities, they become stronger than marines. With stratagems and their natural skills, they fill up their ranks to enormous size. Which stacks with their "punching harder than marines" synergy. This is a unit that the enemy must absolutely shoot at early on to prevent them from becoming obscenely powerful later. Failing to kill them before they reach your infantry, or allowing them to grow without understanding how strong they can become, will result in your entire back line being eradicated by them when they finally arrive. They are the slow-moving final push that will wreck anything upon arrival, supplemented by the Death Guard trait that softens up the enemy on the way.

Death Guard is like a Magic the Gathering deck that starts out slow and wants to build up toward a colossal end game then tramples all over your toys.

SilverAlien wrote:
Alright so I've been number crunching, and I noticed a few things:

We have generally awful anti infantry and horde options. Even the plague drone struggles due to pricing. As far as I can tell, cultists with autoguns and heavy stunners taking advantage of our legion tactic are probably our best anti infantry unit. Poxwalkers are also not awful, but suffer from needing the enemy to come to them if you want them to do anything.

I've also become less impressed as I actually broke down our unique units and begin looking at what they offered for cost. Blight crawlers were the only really good ones, and they need a chaos lord with the plague weapon boosting WT to really work well. Haulers aren't very good, honestly be better to just toss your infantry in a rhino if you were worried about them getting killed. Drones are alright but honestly probably outperformed by a properly outfitted helbrute most of the time. Our terminators aren't very good, deathshroud being 200+ points for ablative wounds and blightlords lacking everything that makes normal CSM terminators good. Their only compensation being durability, so a cheap unit can be a decent distraction I guess.

Our characters are a little better? 9 PM and the grenade dude in a rhino isn't bad with the stratagem. Tallyman works great boosting a poxwalker screen (way better than typhus) and his ability. Morty is solid as well... but works better with almost any other army supporting him.

I'll be buying almost all of the models eventually, as I love their looks, but I am disappointed by the rules that go with them so far.

You're doing Grandfather Nurgle's work! Do you have a bit more details about the numbers on those? For example, why is the tallyman better than typhus for poxwalkers (and what is the difference?) I'm really curious on how to make deathguard work.

Had a game against Space wolves couple of days ago to try the new unit. We played 100PL game of Emperors will(or whatever the name is nowadays for two objective game). Even though we use power levels we try to keep the upgrades reasonable and use the matched play restrictions for summoning, psychic powers and stratagems. Here is the list I used:

Necrosius
Winged Daemon prince with Suppurating plate and arch-contaminator

10 Plague marines with fist, p-gun and blight launchers, two flails
10 Plague marines with fist, p-gun and blight launchers, two flails
10 Gun cultists
10 Gun cultists
20 Pox walkers

Blightspawn
Biologis Putrifier

Bloat drone with fleshmower
Bloat drone with fleshmower
Blight hauler
Blight hauler

Plagueburst crawler with entropy cannons

My idea was to try out the massed infantry formation advancing steadily and supported by the different auras and buffs. One could say the very image GW has given for the new Death guard. My opponent had Space wolf terminator list with couple units of melee termies and wolfen, supported by thunder wolves, long range dreadnoughts, long fangs and the huge transport/attack craft with tons of AT-guns (No idea what it was called). He conceded at the end of turn 5 with having only one dreadnought left. Couple of comments below:

Necrosius: His main strength is ability to deny three times a turn and knowing three spells and being only one PL more expensive than Plaguecaster. No enemy psykers present and I could have easily managed with two spells so I'll just give him another try. His boost to Poxwalker survivability is not too hot either as walkers die anyway by the bucket if they come under dedicated attack. Had plague wind, miasma of pestilence and gift of contagion.

Daemon prince: Fast, tough, deadly in combat and buffs units with spells and auras. Absolutely my go-to HQ unit and I really struggle to justify any other trait than comtaminator. Blades of putrefaction, reroll 1's and arch-contaminator allowed plague marines to whack terminators in melee. He even took out wolf priest in single combat by passing armor saves and causing mortal wounds. Fluffy and effective!

Plague marines: Not often seen as a great choice but I love them. Huge benefit from the rapid fire buff allows them to stay out of charge ranges while firing to full effect. I know mixed equipment is often seen as a poor option but those flails really give the crucial edge in melee against jack-off-all-trades type units. They benefit from every kind of buff or spell available so it's pretty easy to give them that extra bite in melee when the assault units reach your lines.

Cultists: Bubble wrap against deep strikers. They benefit a lot from the 18" double tap range and move-and-fire heavy stubber. For a 3PL unit, atleast.

Poxwalkers: No change here. Didn't get to use their new stratagem.

Blightspawn: It was hard to position him right to benefit from his aura. His most useful ability was the crazy powerful flamer which took out the flier right from the sky. Other than that, not a necessary character at all.

Putrifier: He was hilarious as I managed to pull off Blight bombardment with his grenades and Veterans of Long war. Unit of plague marines caused a total of 11 mortal wounds plus truckload of regular wounds against Wolfen wiping out the unit in single volley. I don't know how useful he is when you play against someone who doesn't come charging across the field.

Bloat drones: I haven't played with them before and managed to get them killed without attacking a single time. Need careful positioning which I obviously need to practice. Plan was to rush with the prince and benefit from his rerolls. Got caught with my pants down by las-cannons and thunder wolves.

Blight hauler: Provided cover save to nearby plague marines thus providing more of a psychological effect than actual threat. Surprisingly resilient with demonic save and feel no pain againts long range missiles and las-cannons. Not at all necessary since it's shooting is rather mediocre and plague marines are usually finding cover anyways.

Plagueburst crawler: Rather disappointing. Mediocre BS made it's mortar rather useless and I don't think buffing them with arch-contaminator does any good since they have trouble hitting, not wounding. Everyone knows how the once feared battlecannon is nowadays. Entropy cannons don't match well with it's long range mortar either. But it's tough as hell, I gotta give you that. I wish we could somehow utilise that toughness as a transport but for now I wish I had taken a Predator instead.

Hmmm, I need more details. You said plagueburst crawler was mediocre, and Blight hauler was mediocre too. And your bloat drones got shot off the table without doing anything. So, your two squads of plague marines and your one single Daemon Prince soloed most of the rest of your opponent's army? (You said he was almost tabled by turn 5) ...

Hi Guys,

So I've had a look over the new dex, but I haven't played in awhile (about a year), so to be honest im not really very competent at being able to tell how effective units are compared to the current meta.

I have a walker list in mind, as I have quite a lot of helbrutes already, what are your thoughts of the new vehicles for DG? also helbrutes don't seem to benefit from many of the DG rules? or am i missing something?

DG Helbrutes can move and shoot heavy weapons with no -1 to hit. That's pretty good this edition.

Firefrenzy stratagem is good too.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Hmmm, I need more details. You said plagueburst crawler was mediocre, and Blight hauler was mediocre too. And your bloat drones got shot off the table without doing anything. So, your two squads of plague marines and your one single Daemon Prince soloed most of the rest of your opponent's army? (You said he was almost tabled by turn 5) ...

Yes, pretty much. Couple of rapid fire volleys, smite and curse of the leper(I got this mixed with plague wind) took out enough terminators and thunderwolves to blunt his offensive. The rest were finished in melee and Wolfen were blasted by single Blight bombardment. Blight launcher is great weapon against two wound terminators and thunder wolves and stacking mortal wounds removes their greatest defense which is storm shield. Of course cultists and pox walkers were used as road blocks to funnel his troops into optimal fire zones but most of the damage was done by plague marines using different psychic powers and auras. As I said the situation would have probably been a bit different against an army with less assault focus.

Solar Shock wrote:
Hi Guys,

So I've had a look over the new dex, but I haven't played in awhile (about a year), so to be honest im not really very competent at being able to tell how effective units are compared to the current meta.

I have a walker list in mind, as I have quite a lot of helbrutes already, what are your thoughts of the new vehicles for DG? also helbrutes don't seem to benefit from many of the DG rules? or am i missing something?

With it helbrutes being able to move and shoot at full bs. It's particularly nice if you wanted to run a mixed loadout, or a cheap melee loadout by slapping a heavy bolter and power scourge on

Milkshaker wrote:
You're doing Grandfather Nurgle's work! Do you have a bit more details about the numbers on those? For example, why is the tallyman better than typhus for poxwalkers (and what is the difference?) I'm really curious on how to make deathguard work.

I'll try and do a full write up with number comparisons soon, if only so people can point out areas I might've gotten wrong, it might be a couple days though this week is kinda busy. It'd also be pure theorycraft/mathhammer which annoys some people, I've only gotten to play a few games proxying stuff for our new units. But I can do a couple quick summaries without the full math.

As for tallyman vs typhus specifically, one thing I've started to appreciate about poxwalkers is that offensive boosts also increase their defense, by allowing more regenerating zombies. Given they are a 4+/5+ WS, being able to reroll all missed hits is a big boost for them, at least as useful as the str/tough increase of typhus against most enemies. Tallyman also comes in at 67 vs 175 for typhus, and typhus struggles as a buffing unit due to being an expensive melee beatstick and caster. You need to deepstrike him in to benefit from most of his abilities unless you know, for a fact, the enemy will come to you. He can't even keep up with a blight hauler+poxwalker moving screen on foot, and slows the entire thing down (poxwalkers, especially with a blightbringer, outpace him). Bit of a shame because miasma of pestilence on the blight haulers is a pretty solid usage of the psychic power, but we have other options for that. So Tallyman just works better with poxwalkers in their main role as a screen, Typhus is better used as an upgraded LoC that can reliably contribute something when he deepstrikes thanks to his psychic powers, for which the 25-35 point increase is trivial(not to mention his hive and upgraded scythe).

I'll also mention blightcrawlers as they are one of our better unique units. They are up against lascannons predators as our best long range anti tank. Predators do more damage per point, even with the plague weapon boosting warlord trait which you want to make them shine, and have better range. But the blightcrawler is absurdly tough, factoring in toughness, invulnerable save, extra wound, and DR, for 30-40 points less with its best loadout (two entropy cannons+mortar). You also don't want to use them like actual artillery, parking it behind LoS blocking terrain, that's a trap. The fact it ignores LoS is basically just to allow counter fire vs fragile vehicles tucked out of sight, you want it parked front and center for the entropy cannons.

 XT-1984 wrote:
DG Helbrutes can move and shoot heavy weapons with no -1 to hit. That's pretty good this edition.

Firefrenzy stratagem is good too.

I'll be especially excited if the hell brute keyword units get FAQ'd to be able to use those stratagems.