Switch Theme:

Death Guard Tactica  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Pilau Rice wrote:
mario88826 wrote:

as you are no longer able to even generate DTFE.


Hi, could you explain this please as I am not sure what you mean. I haven't played many games of 8th yet and still picking up stuff.


DTFE is death to the false emperor. If you roll a 6 on your to hit in close combat, you will generate another attack (but that attack can no longer generate any more additional hits from DTFE). But if you have a -1 on your to hit roll, then the best you can manage is a 5, it is impossible for you to get a 6 because of the -1 now. Hence what he means when he says that you are now no longer able to even generate DTFE. Hope this helps.
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

So how are things looking for those of us who don't want to spam poxwalkers and cultists or use them as more than screens/chaff?

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in se
Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh






Reading, UK

Captyn_Bob wrote:
 Pilau Rice wrote:
mario88826 wrote:

as you are no longer able to even generate DTFE.


Hi, could you explain this please as I am not sure what you mean. I haven't played many games of 8th yet and still picking up stuff.

Death to the False Emperor triggers on a hit roll of a 6+.
If you have a -1 to hit weapon, you can no longer naturally benefit from this rule.


I thought that's what he meant but wasn't sure, thanks.

Wow.

No pity, no remorse, no shoes 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
 Pilau Rice wrote:
mario88826 wrote:

as you are no longer able to even generate DTFE.


Hi, could you explain this please as I am not sure what you mean. I haven't played many games of 8th yet and still picking up stuff.

Death to the False Emperor triggers on a hit roll of a 6+.
If you have a -1 to hit weapon, you can no longer naturally benefit from this rule.


I thought that's what he meant but wasn't sure, thanks.

Wow.


Yeah, it's the drawback to GW making modifiers apply to the die roll, not the target. It's clearly intentional, but goes against common sense when people think of a modifier.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





PDX

Wayniac wrote:
So how are things looking for those of us who don't want to spam poxwalkers and cultists or use them as more than screens/chaff?


I am wondering that myself. CC squads in Rhinos sounds like an appealing strategy, but I have no idea if that is even viable.

   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
So how are things looking for those of us who don't want to spam poxwalkers and cultists or use them as more than screens/chaff?


I am wondering that myself. CC squads in Rhinos sounds like an appealing strategy, but I have no idea if that is even viable.


Yeah, everyone just seems focused on spamming poxwalkers and/or cultists and ignoring marines, at least plague marines seem to be fairly well in some cases.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
So how are things looking for those of us who don't want to spam poxwalkers and cultists or use them as more than screens/chaff?


I am wondering that myself. CC squads in Rhinos sounds like an appealing strategy, but I have no idea if that is even viable.


Hmmm, it might work, if only simply to get them up the board faster. But a major issue is that plague marines are already more expensive than most infantry. Add the cost of a Rhino to that, and the points will really add up. And if your opponent gets to move first and blow up your Rhino/s anyway, you are then forced to foot slog up the board regardless, except that if you paid for all those Rhinos, then you wouldn't have a pox walker screen...

Also, if your Rhino ride gets wrecked while your plague marines are in it, each death from the emergency disembark is going to hurt! (Because melee plague marines are expensive in points!)
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





PDX

Eldenfirefly wrote:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
So how are things looking for those of us who don't want to spam poxwalkers and cultists or use them as more than screens/chaff?


I am wondering that myself. CC squads in Rhinos sounds like an appealing strategy, but I have no idea if that is even viable.


Hmmm, it might work, if only simply to get them up the board faster. But a major issue is that plague marines are already more expensive than most infantry. Add the cost of a Rhino to that, and the points will really add up. And if your opponent gets to move first and blow up your Rhino/s anyway, you are then forced to foot slog up the board regardless, except that if you paid for all those Rhinos, then you wouldn't have a pox walker screen...

Also, if your Rhino ride gets wrecked while your plague marines are in it, each death from the emergency disembark is going to hurt! (Because melee plague marines are expensive in points!)


That is the risk/reward with any army though. Literally all armies have this concept applied to them in some fashion.

The Rhino is surprisingly tough, especially if you bring a bunch. It isn't that easy to stop 4+ Rhinos as it used to be. Might be worth it if we saturate them with targets.

   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




List building with a friend who plays DG, discussing tactics, mathhammer and theoryhammer and so far I’ve come to the conclusion that bloat drones are one of the standouts of the codex. 3 flying up a flank with some combo of flamers and mower and it can really buzz through units, survive a pile of shooting and suck fire away from your main force.

A pair of plagueburst crawlers also seem ideal; the mortar aspect of it makes it tempting to deploy it out of the way but I think it’s best used deployed up front and centre. They are ridiculously durable, and you can maximize the effectiveness of your sponson cancer-rockets. It’s also a bit more intimidating having them up front so helps set up either a bit of area-denial, or begs the opponent to focus on them. It won’t work against everyone but any distraction that can take attention away from the infantry marching up the board I feel is worth it.

In contrast, the haulers really seem mediocre. The firepower just isn’t there and the cover buff doesn’t blow me away.
   
Made in nl
Been Around the Block




 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
So how are things looking for those of us who don't want to spam poxwalkers and cultists or use them as more than screens/chaff?


I am wondering that myself. CC squads in Rhinos sounds like an appealing strategy, but I have no idea if that is even viable.


Hmmm, it might work, if only simply to get them up the board faster. But a major issue is that plague marines are already more expensive than most infantry. Add the cost of a Rhino to that, and the points will really add up. And if your opponent gets to move first and blow up your Rhino/s anyway, you are then forced to foot slog up the board regardless, except that if you paid for all those Rhinos, then you wouldn't have a pox walker screen...

Also, if your Rhino ride gets wrecked while your plague marines are in it, each death from the emergency disembark is going to hurt! (Because melee plague marines are expensive in points!)


That is the risk/reward with any army though. Literally all armies have this concept applied to them in some fashion.

The Rhino is surprisingly tough, especially if you bring a bunch. It isn't that easy to stop 4+ Rhinos as it used to be. Might be worth it if we saturate them with targets.


The problem with rhino's is that the filling is so expensive for death guard. You're looking at an easy 400+ points for just a squad of death guard and a support elite.
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




We are only playing 1k right now but 1k-1500 lists we’ve been thinking about it seems if you have a rhino or two and they don’t make it; who cares. The drones get there intact then, if the drones get targeted they likely survive anyway and the rhinos make it. Once the rhinos unload they’d basically be used to tie up shooty units in combat to force them to lock in combat or fall back without being able to shoot. The drones are the real stars of the show, while the plague marines that hopefully make it are fire support, and boots on the ground for objective secured; one flail and then basic 2 knife guys to tie into enemy chaff, or boltguns and a launcher or two to park in cover. Target saturation is the key to arriving alive.
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin






SilverAlien wrote:
snottlebocket wrote:
Has anyone considered a mechanised death guard force? Maybe a knight and a bunch of foetid drones and some infantry for objectives.

I’m loving the mental image of a swarm of those nasty drones bearing down on the enemy. Having a knight provides some nice target saturation for any AT weaponry.


Well, the question is what does a mechanized DG force do that a normal csm army can't do better. Which is a fairly short list sadly. Drones with plague flamers are a niche that normal CSM doesn't really have. Our grenade spam stratagem is also unique. Both of those work in mechanized. Melee plague marines suffer from being compared to bezerkers, so that's kinda meh outside one unit for the grenades. Death shroud can actually fit with a lord in a land raider which is one of their only decent points. Probably the only way you'll ever see a unit earn back its points.

I think mechanized DG is one of our only strong builds, and even then it's not enough for an army it's more something you use alongside a CSM battalion.



Daemon engines with Epidemius can be pretty terrifying. You will want to dip your toes into FW for a few things like a decimator though or plague hulk though. You will want a big blob of something to tie up melee units. Poxwalkers, or 30 plaguebearers work well for this.


I got to put Mortarion on the table last night. My opponent did the knee jerk reaction of facing a mid range/assault army, and they made a castle. Turns out mortarion is excellent at breaking castles down. I had 13 units inside 7" on the turn I charged. Several of which were characters. Because he was so bunched up, he either could run, and have his heavy weapons hit on -2 (thank you miasma) or go all out on trying to kill morty. So at the beginning of his shooting phase, I blew 3CP to use Nurgles Rot, as I noticed it just says "in the shooting phase" no, "in your shooting phase". Hitting 11 units this time, and taking out 2 of his characters. Morty didn't die to shooting, and in the fight phase the aura procced again.
The -1 toughness and mortal wounds was decimating against a T3 army. Even though I have read about how hard it is to keep up with mortarion, it was much harder than I expected.


I also wanted to get some feedback on the comparison between the Myphitic Blight Hauler, and the Greater Blight Drone. The blight drones seem to be in a bit of an odd spot since 8th dropped. Going from light anti infantry flyer, to basically an autocannon predator with the FLY keyword. The Blight drone is about 60pt more than the blight hauler, has fly, doesn't ignore penalty for moving/shooting it's main gun, but has BS3, so its the same assuming you moved. It has 4 more wounds, but it has a damage chart.
First glance, the Blight Hauler is coming out on top for me. But are either of them really decent compared to a Predator?

An autocannon/HB predator is 40pt less than a blight drone, and has much better long range firepower. Blight drone has 3 attacks in CC, with a pistol for D3 more, which are ok against elite infantry, but the predators firepower, and cheaper point cost seems to just be better. Blight drone has mobility and durability on the pred, but I'm not sure that is really worth it.

A twin las/heavy bolter predator is about 20pt more than the Blight hauler, has better consistent firepower, but lacks the resiliency from the ++5, DG and -1 to hit in fight phase. If you bring 3 they get better, but its still hard to figure how they will be used on the battlefield.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/27 15:33:16


   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





PDX

snottlebocket wrote:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
So how are things looking for those of us who don't want to spam poxwalkers and cultists or use them as more than screens/chaff?


I am wondering that myself. CC squads in Rhinos sounds like an appealing strategy, but I have no idea if that is even viable.


Hmmm, it might work, if only simply to get them up the board faster. But a major issue is that plague marines are already more expensive than most infantry. Add the cost of a Rhino to that, and the points will really add up. And if your opponent gets to move first and blow up your Rhino/s anyway, you are then forced to foot slog up the board regardless, except that if you paid for all those Rhinos, then you wouldn't have a pox walker screen...

Also, if your Rhino ride gets wrecked while your plague marines are in it, each death from the emergency disembark is going to hurt! (Because melee plague marines are expensive in points!)


That is the risk/reward with any army though. Literally all armies have this concept applied to them in some fashion.

The Rhino is surprisingly tough, especially if you bring a bunch. It isn't that easy to stop 4+ Rhinos as it used to be. Might be worth it if we saturate them with targets.


The problem with rhino's is that the filling is so expensive for death guard. You're looking at an easy 400+ points for just a squad of death guard and a support elite.


What support Elite? That is not mandatory. I managed to fit four Squads with Rhinos into a list clocking in at 261pt each. Not max squads, of course. The Chaos Lord and Plaguecaster are support HQs, but required anyhow. Backed it up with Mowers and Crawlers. Not sure if it is remotely viable, but it looks fun and goes heavy on the CC option.

Craptastic List
Spoiler:

HQ:
Chaos Lord
Supportating Plate, Arch-Contaminator
Balesword
[80]

Malignant Plaguecaster
[110]

Troops:
(7) Plague Marines
2x Flails
2x Mace & Axe
2x Twin Plague Knives
Power Fist, Plasma Pistol
[196]

(7) Plague Marines
2x Flails
2x Mace & Axe
2x Twin Plague Knives
Power Fist, Plasma Pistol
[196]

(7) Plague Marines
2x Flails
2x Mace & Axe
2x Twin Plague Knives
Power Fist, Plasma Pistol
[196]

(7) Plague Marines
2x Flails
2x Mace & Axe
2x Twin Plague Knives
Power Fist
[189]

Dedicated Transports:
Chaos Rhino
2x Combi-Bolter
[74]

Chaos Rhino
2x Combi-Bolter
[74]

Chaos Rhino
Combi-Bolter
[72]

Chaos Rhino
Combi-Bolter
[72]

Fast Attack:
Foetid Bloat-Drone
Fleshmower, Probe
[136]

Foetid Bloat-Drone
Fleshmower, Probe
[136]

Heavy:
Plagueburst Crawler
2x Entropy, Slugger
[156]

Plagueburst Crawler
2x Entropy, Slugger
[156]

Plagueburst Crawler
2x Entropy, Slugger
[156]

[1999]

   
Made in us
Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna






So, I've been crunching up some numbers and I came up with a list that satisfy my play style and looks menacing enough. I have a doubt if play Typhus or not as using a normal lord of contagion free up the points to put in a unit of nurglings that is great for object grabbing.
The idea is to dedicate about 75% of the list to shooting.
Do you think I succedeed?
Spoiler:



++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle: Fugaris' Helm, Malefic talon, Plague Wind

Malignant Plaguecaster: Blades of Putrefaction, Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +

Nurglings: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Plague Marines
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plague knife
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

Plague Marines
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plague knife
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

Plague Marines
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plaguesword
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Poxwalkers: 19x Poxwalker

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone: Heavy blight launcher, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone: Heavy blight launcher, Plague probe

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy Slugger

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ HQ +

Lord of Contagion: Manreaper

+ Elites +

Biologus Putrifier: Plague knife

Blightlord Terminators
. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of Corruption
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-plasma
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-plasma
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Reaper autocannon
. Blightlord Terminator Champion: Bubotic Axe, Combi-plasma

Foul Blightspawn
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Try to summon in those nurglings. Not worth losing Inexorable Advance (or whatever its called). With only PL3 should be super easy.
   
Made in us
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





cedar rapids, iowa

Eldenfirefly wrote:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
So how are things looking for those of us who don't want to spam poxwalkers and cultists or use them as more than screens/chaff?


I am wondering that myself. CC squads in Rhinos sounds like an appealing strategy, but I have no idea if that is even viable.


Hmmm, it might work, if only simply to get them up the board faster. But a major issue is that plague marines are already more expensive than most infantry. Add the cost of a Rhino to that, and the points will really add up. And if your opponent gets to move first and blow up your Rhino/s anyway, you are then forced to foot slog up the board regardless, except that if you paid for all those Rhinos, then you wouldn't have a pox walker screen...

Also, if your Rhino ride gets wrecked while your plague marines are in it, each death from the emergency disembark is going to hurt! (Because melee plague marines are expensive in points!)


Possessed are faster anyway and can be buffed by Deamons.

PM are really shooty now not CC. Which is a shame because they used to be decent at both.

 
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





PDX

 sfshilo wrote:


PM are really shooty now not CC. Which is a shame because they used to be decent at both.


Right, I get that. But for those of us trying to go for a CC approach, what is working? What is viable?

I tried with a list that had mobility and CC. Not sure it is any good! Thoughts on it?


   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

FWIW I plan to try a squad of 7 with 1x axe, 1x 2 knives, 2x axes and maces, 2x flail, champion with sword and fist, in a Rhino.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





PDX

Wayniac wrote:
FWIW I plan to try a squad of 7 with 1x axe, 1x 2 knives, 2x axes and maces, 2x flail, champion with sword and fist, in a Rhino.


Let us know how that rolls. I want to run that pretty badly because I love the idea and hope it isn't awful!

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Axes or Swords?

I have a quick question for the best power weapon choice for my blightlord terminators. I will be giving one guy the mace of contagion. However, the big question is should I give the other 4 terminators either axes or swords. In this forum it seems like the consensus is that the axe is the better option. However why? When I drop in my blightlords, Typhus will be with them and likely always casting Purtrescent Vitality and Blades of Putrefaction on them increasing their Str and wound rolls. Not to mention they will be near Mortarian who is reducing enemy units toughness. Finally, I like giving my SM opponents only a 6+ save with the -3 AP sword and even better no save when I roll a 6 with aura of rust.

So how does the math work out or what are the scenarios that the axe is better? The only instance is if my terminators are attacking T8 vehicles and I am not supported by any characters or psychic abilites/strategems.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/27 17:44:48


 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

Axes seem to be better than swords in every way from everything I've read. Don't have the math or have tried it myself to verify, however.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/27 19:23:48


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna






Wayniac wrote:
Axes seem to be better than swords in every way from everything I've read. Don't have the math or have tried it myself to verify, however.


EDIT:

Vs Anything worst than a SM the sword is better (<T4).
Vs Sm or better the Axe means more dead models.

My math comes from: http://www.mathhammer8thed.com
If I am wrong I apologize and please illustrate me a better way >

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/27 19:56:26


 
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin






Wayniac wrote:
FWIW I plan to try a squad of 7 with 1x axe, 1x 2 knives, 2x axes and maces, 2x flail, champion with sword and fist, in a Rhino.


Toss a foul blightspawn in with them to protect them from death via charges and help melt stuff that gets in the way with it's flamer. Maybe deep strike a lord of contagion within 7 of a few units to help stack up some mortal wounds!
It is a shame we cannot take razorbacks, I feel like plague marines would be great in them!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/27 21:42:36


   
Made in us
Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna






 gwarsh41 wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
FWIW I plan to try a squad of 7 with 1x axe, 1x 2 knives, 2x axes and maces, 2x flail, champion with sword and fist, in a Rhino.


Toss a foul blightspawn in with them to protect them from death via charges and help melt stuff that gets in the way with it's flamer. Maybe deep strike a lord of contagion within 7 of a few units to help stack up some mortal wounds!
It is a shame we cannot take razorbacks, I feel like plague marines would be great in them!


A unit of 6 blight termi with one flail and 5 axe makes more 0,7 W vs T6 and 0,8 W vs T7; they are a rhino and a model, which result in 11 W more. At the same time 100 bolters are 3,7W, 1 dead termi vs 7,4 W and 7 dead PM

Vs 10 plasma that means that 2 PM goes down but 1 terminator and 3W cost us more point wise.

This teaches me 2 things: we are resilient asf and plasma vs terminator still makes us cry

In the end they have a really similar outcome for being infantry and the decision is really personal, more than tactical. Yes a rhino might put you in CC as alpha strike easier than the terminators, but they can blow you up your rhino easy if you don't go first, leaving you a long way to go, having 1/2 d6"+1 advantage on the terminators.

I didn't check the deathsrhoud because they are so overpriced it is ridiculous.

Really, we are really really hard to bring down. Dad loves us with his putriescence

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/27 22:09:11


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wayniac wrote:
So how are things looking for those of us who don't want to spam poxwalkers and cultists or use them as more than screens/chaff?


You can take a few in a battalion than use some of the non troop detachments to fill out the army.

If you asking about using plague marines instead, they are still bad. Not laughably bad like in the index, they are a decent troop choice in more casual games, but nothing you'd want to invest points into in more serious play.

With a few exceptions (the single rhino melee grenade unit) they are generally outclassed by all of the other cult units point for point. Noise marines are better as footsloggers with assault weapons, bezerkers put more pain out in melee, and rubrics are usually tougher and have better overall firepower. And cultists/poxwalkers are better for cheaply filling out battalions.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/27 22:27:36


 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

SilverAlien wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
So how are things looking for those of us who don't want to spam poxwalkers and cultists or use them as more than screens/chaff?


You can take a few in a battalion than use some of the non troop detachments to fill out the army.

If you asking about using plague marines instead, they are still bad. Not laughably bad like in the index, they are a decent troop choice in more casual games, but nothing you'd want to invest points into in more serious play.

With a few exceptions (the single rhino melee grenade unit) they are generally outclassed by all of the other cult units point for point. Noise marines are better as footsloggers with assault weapons, bezerkers put more pain out in melee, and rubrics are usually tougher and have better overall firepower. And cultists/poxwalkers are better for cheaply filling out battalions.


Yeah I have absolutely no plans to play 40k "more serious" because I've seen how lists are built and it doesn't appeal one bit to me, I like plague marines and want to build an army around them as an actual core, not have a few token guys while playing The Walking Dead.

My 7-man squad would have a Biologus Putrifier and a Blightspawn going along with them in a Rhino for some grenade fun, I think. Have to try it out, waiting on the kits to release finally.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut





Considering the Blightlords weapons per se, the axe is far better (rerollin 1s means we must invest in wound rolls ofc); BUT with the blade of putrefaction/VoTLW combo you wound on a 1+ against the common T4, which is a waste, so better the sword for a juicy ap 3/4... BUT it's no guaranteed you wil always have those two bonuses, maybe you need CP for other stuff or the power gets denied, so I prefer the axes to be safe... AND have you saw those swords? The shape is awful, like some toys, while the axes have a gory, butcher type of feeling.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What do you think about the spawns? They always gave me joys playing black legion, but are they really so weak compared to the bloat drones?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/27 22:47:47


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Axes are also a point cheaper for some reason I've yet to determine. Typo maybe?

As for chaos spawn, I'm not sure what they offer over a melee bloat drone. When you factor in mutations they do put out more damage against most targets, less against t 7 or when they roll the AP -4 mutation against a 4+ Or less save, but they are a lot more fragile. More wounds for their cost, but lower save, no invilnerable save, lower toughness, and no DR. Also slower and they can't fly.

I suppose a large unit being buffed with psychic powers could be useful, as a unit of 6 can be exceptionally nasty with the right buffs, but that's really it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/27 23:07:53


 
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





I feel that part of the issue of playing mechanised death guard is that you essentially decide for the opponent that the Rhinos will be targeted. Firstly, they contain a lot of points in them (be it plague marines or elite characters or both).

Secondly, many deathguard vehicles like hauler, bloat drone, etc all have DR. Having one or more Rhinos in your list alongside other deathguard vehicles makes it easy for the opponent. Because its gonna be far easier to kill a Rhino that doesnt have DR than to kill say a bloat drone, or a Hauler, or a crawler. Not to mention the fact that he isn't just killing 70 plus points of Rhino. He is depriving your plague marines of a fast ride, and if some die from emergency disembark, then its even more points he just killed. Its almost a no brainer. Unless you have an even higher priority target like Mortarion on the board. I think it might work... if you skip most of the rest of the deathguard vehicles. That means you go Mortarion plus all Rhinos. Forget about bloat drones and the rest. Or if you don't have Mortarion, then just full Rhinos with melee plague marines.

It might work actually. Although... are you totally forgoing bubblewrap pox walkers or cultists? Because if you are, some deep strike shooting is really dangerous and without proper bubble wrap, you are going to let the opponent shoot you very efficiently too (scions, deepstrike termis, etc etc). I mean, a scion deep strike squad with full plasma or full meltas is under 100 points? No bubble wrap in favour of Rhinos means that if the opponent gets the jump strike on you, your Rhinos are going to be super vulnerable. Even for CSM, a 10 man terminator plasma squad is 500 points but can pump out 20 plasma shots (and then with cacophony strategem, can do it again). So, potentially 40 plasma shots. That's 80 potential wounds if overcharged, and that would probably kill off all rhinos you have on the board if they are all within plasma double tap range (and without bubble wrap, they will be).

You almost have to go first to stand a better chance, but in practise, Going first is 50:50.

It might be worth exploring though. Because a move advanced Rhino is one of the few things that can keep up with a Mortarion (though not a warp timed Mortarion).

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/09/28 01:39:51


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Really struggling with anti-armour. What have people been having success with?

I've tried Blight Haulers (both in threes and ones) but the 4+ really makes them ineffective with only two shots (and at least one model is always lost in the first turn so the 3+ rarely lasts).

PBC - same 4+ deal.

Deathshrouds delete tanks with ease, but that's no use unless someone absent mindedly leaves a gap for you to deepstrike into and you take a CSM sorcerer.

I like melta-Blightlords as an idea but it makes them a near-300 point 1-trick pony because they're not likely to get to shoot any more vehicles after their first go (unless you're playing an armour gunline). Plus, with good screening, they're not getting to shoot a tank on the turn they deepstrike anyway.


   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: