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They are very broken, that's a reality, but wich tools do we have against them??? We are so slow... I never get to their board camp

 gwarsh41 wrote:
autocannon, and a flamer squad with the plague spewer

I think that both plasma and melta termy can be great, with or without bells(appropriate) and whistles (more a slaaneshi thing?) like autocannons, lanuchers and flails.

But are flamer ones viable? Do you plan to use a transport or a sorcerer support?

Pestilens wrote:
They are very broken, that's a reality, but wich tools do we have against them??? We are so slow... I never get to their board camp

From my testing it's best not to build to beat Imperial Guard. We're not going to have a good time against them anyway and there's no point in sacrificing your capabilities against other armies. In magic the gathering my advice is much the same. Build to beat what you can handle and prepare to have options against difficult lists but don't bother trying to make changes for something that you're not likely to beat anyway.

However, that being said, Fleshmowers can make IG lists salty when utilized well.

How would you use flesh mowers? I really think they seem subpar to the plaugespitter variants.

broxus wrote:
How would you use flesh mowers? I really think they seem subpar to the plaugespitter variants.

I usually use them along side a Daemon Prince who can support them with Miasma of Pestilence. The daemon prince will obviously need wings for this strategy.

Fleshmower seems like discount talons daemon prince, but when you compare them apples to apples, I feel like the DP will come out on top and be well worth the 50 or so more points it costs.

I am a bit too lazy to mathhammer it out, but while the drone has more attacks at higher strength, the DP has re-rolls to hit, better hit rolls, can hide thanks to being character, and can cast a spell, such as blades of putrefacation, to make them that much better.

I like the mowers look, but comparing the two really makes the plaguespitters look all that much better

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Fleshmower seems like discount talons daemon prince, but when you compare them apples to apples, I feel like the DP will come out on top and be well worth the 50 or so more points it costs.

I am a bit too lazy to mathhammer it out, but while the drone has more attacks at higher strength, the DP has re-rolls to hit, better hit rolls, can hide thanks to being character, and can cast a spell, such as blades of putrefacation, to make them that much better.

I like the mowers look, but comparing the two really makes the plaguespitters look all that much better

I agree in general but I think it's a bit more complicated than that. From practice it feels like a Daemon Prince acting as a force multiplier for a pair of flesh mowers is really nice. This means on paper you get the re-rolls to hit, and they can be buffed. Not to mention, as you mentioned, they're cheaper. This allows you to field more units as well as a by-product.

broxus wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
5-man squads with 3 plasma guns, I presume?

Always since I think it is by far the best all around Choice.

I may have to experiment; I am partial to 7-man for fluff and for a little extra wounds. I'm really curious about blight launcher vs. plasma though; consensus seems to be plasma is better because Plasma, but Blight Launchers will let you make the most out of being able to Advance and still shoot (I really wish it would have let Rapid Fire count as assault, instead of just letting you advance and fire Assault, because Death Guard have woefully few Assault weapons).

broxus wrote:
How would you use flesh mowers? I really think they seem subpar to the plaugespitter variants.

More than any other unit in the Codex, Fleshmower Drones gain from Mortarion's re-roll aura (PBC's would get honorable mention, if they ever wanted to close to melee). Having only a 4+ WS makes the reroll of all misses feature quite a bit better than a simple re-roll 1's aura. So they seem to be best as Morty's ablative escort. 'Spitter Drones don't roll to hit at all, and gain nothing from the big guy's aura (or DP's), so make better independent operators or flankers moving up an opposite side from the Primarch. Spitters do seem to have much more general application in the army though, agreed.

Vortenger wrote:

broxus wrote:
How would you use flesh mowers? I really think they seem subpar to the plaugespitter variants.

More than any other unit in the Codex, Fleshmower Drones gain from Mortarion's re-roll aura (PBC's would get honorable mention, if they ever wanted to close to melee). Having only a 4+ WS makes the reroll of all misses feature quite a bit better than a simple re-roll 1's aura. So they seem to be best as Morty's ablative escort. 'Spitter Drones don't roll to hit at all, and gain nothing from the big guy's aura (or DP's), so make better independent operators or flankers moving up an opposite side from the Primarch. Spitters do seem to have much more general application in the army though, agreed.

I agree with this 100%. Plaguespitters are more versatile than the flesh mower but if you're already running a tight list and have Morty or a Daemon Prince the Fleshmowers aren't a bad addition by any means.

Wayniac wrote:

I may have to experiment; I am partial to 7-man for fluff and for a little extra wounds. I'm really curious about blight launcher vs. plasma though; consensus seems to be plasma is better because Plasma, but Blight Launchers will let you make the most out of being able to Advance and still shoot (I really wish it would have let Rapid Fire count as assault, instead of just letting you advance and fire Assault, because Death Guard have woefully few Assault weapons).

I think there are two main reasons why people prefer plasma over blight launchers:

1) Rapid-fire range has been increased to 18". That encourages Plague Marines to move close enough into double-tap range, while enemy squads with plasma have to scoot 6", possibly out of cover, to do the same thing.

2) The sergeant can also take a plasma gun, instead of just a pistol, for a total of 3 plasma guns in each squad. That means 6 plasma shots at Double-tap range.

At least, that's how it is on paper. If you want to try out Blight-Launchers instead, give them a shot and see how they work out for you.

I begin to wonder if the Blight Launcher isn't really meant for DG. CSM Plague Marines don't gain our snazzy rapid fire range bonus, which would make the plasma much less appealing. Launchers are an effective elite infantry killer with a fairly unique profile and are just as good for legion marines. It and the flails are solid choices for any Chaos warband.

This is relevant to anyone not wanting to run a DG army but still wanting some of the new Nurgle love. I don't believe CSM has access to any of the other new releases, do they? At least they have some strong flavorful options now.

It also leaves us a viable all-round weapon should plasma or our Legion trait change or get the nerfhammer some day down the road. Rules change but plastic is forever.

Yea my wouldn’t say the fleshmower is bad. However, not being able to run and charge and only hitting on a 4+ really sucks. I also don’t like it can be charged by screening units to lock it down. In contrast, the plaguespitter, can run and shoot, doesn’t have a hit roll, is amazing in defensive fire, can leave combat and still shoot, and is ok in combat.

Is all of that worth 19 extra points? I sure think so. I want even planning on putting drones in my list. Since I saw how good they were in my last event I won’t leave home without one now. Honestly, no one can argue the fleshmower wins in the coolness competition.

Plague Wind was meant for infantry hordes. On average, a 30-model conscripts should suffer 6 mortal wounds. Nice in itself, but really nice with Poxwalkers inside of 7” and the Dead Walk Again. I march at least 1 plaguecaster with Typhus and Poxwalkers. Flank that with a bloat-drone or two, and the Zombie Tide will roll. The first time you see your Poxwalker unit “expand” 24” downfield will make you a believer.

Vortenger wrote:

broxus wrote:
How would you use flesh mowers? I really think they seem subpar to the plaugespitter variants.

Having only a 4+ WS makes the reroll of all misses feature quite a bit better than a simple re-roll 1's aura.

Mortarion still only has a re-roll 1's to hit aura - his WL trait Arch Contaminator gives re-rolls to wound with plague weapons, but any DP/Lord can take that also and thus provide identical buffs to hit and wound with plague weapons.

Daemon prince with Arch contaminator And supturating plate seems like a great fit with a unit of either plague drones with spitters or mowers.

Both mowers and spitters are plague weapons. Re roll to wound with both weapons is pretty nasty.

You could also give the tallyman the fugaris helm and arch contaminator. Then the mowers would be re-roll to hit and re roll to wound. 3.6 dead marines per mower. Or s9mething like 7 hull points from a Vehicle.

Vortenger wrote:

broxus wrote:
How would you use flesh mowers? I really think they seem subpar to the plaugespitter variants.

More than any other unit in the Codex, Fleshmower Drones gain from Mortarion's re-roll aura (PBC's would get honorable mention, if they ever wanted to close to melee). Having only a 4+ WS makes the reroll of all misses feature quite a bit better than a simple re-roll 1's aura. So they seem to be best as Morty's ablative escort. 'Spitter Drones don't roll to hit at all, and gain nothing from the big guy's aura (or DP's), so make better independent operators or flankers moving up an opposite side from the Primarch. Spitters do seem to have much more general application in the army though, agreed.

Doesn't Mortarion only give reroll 1s to hit instead of everything?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

duWhee wrote:
Plague Wind was meant for infantry hordes. On average, a 30-model conscripts should suffer 6 mortal wounds. Nice in itself, but really nice with Poxwalkers inside of 7” and the Dead Walk Again. I march at least 1 plaguecaster with Typhus and Poxwalkers. Flank that with a bloat-drone or two, and the Zombie Tide will roll. The first time you see your Poxwalker unit “expand” 24” downfield will make you a believer.

True if well executed, but I'm not looking forward to the prospect of having to buy, assemble and paint 100 poxies for just that purpose.

Right you are, Marshal. Oops.

So I will preface this with the fact that I am still very new to DG. Long time SM and Ork player and I have always performed well with unusual lists and playing with models that were considered sub par.

My core list is built around a Battallion, Vanguard, and Outrider. I have played around with others, and soon I have a buddy coming over that I will get to play a few games proxying to test out some of the new stuff. My core elements are as follows:

Poxwalkers - 1 unit of 20 and then another of 10+ (depending on points). The 20 screen my PM and the others either hold objectives or screen backfielders.

Plague Marines - I like one massive melee blob. 20 with 2 Blight Launchers, 2 flails, 5 axes, 1 banner and the rest dual knives with a champion having Powerfist and Plasma Pistol. They march behind the Poxwalkers, safe with Plague of Flies, and use grenades before charging. I like the pistol over the plasma gun on the Champion because the point is melee, so I am either advancing, or I am in combat. In combat it is a nice added punch and I feel the added cost of the gun isn't worth the likely 1 time per game I would get to rapid fire it over the shots with the pistol in CC.

From there I keep whiffling about other things. After reading previous posts I am tempted to try the Blight Lords with Plasma and a Lord, or Melta and Typhus. I also want to try out 3 PBC. I have been doing 3 Bloat Drones and a DP, and it has seemed great, but I have a lot to check out. As I play games I'll come back and give my experiences on them.

In defense of Pox Walkers I think more than anything they are a horde insurance plan. They will tear apart other weak hordes, and this is one of the best answers we have to lots of little guys (grenades being the other). I like putting both in the same list, and then adding other stuff too. If I don't need the horde defence then the Poxwalkers are just bullet magnets, but they tend to take a fair bit of punishment.

If your poxwalkers are only a meat shield, Chaos Cultists would be a better choice. They cost less and can shoot.

Hey guys, do you have any tips for dealing with bullgryns with psyker support? They hit quite hard and with their good inv save, toughness and wounds can be hard to remove.

Do you guys think that fugaris' helm on a lord of contagion gives a boost to aura size on both parts of nurgle's gift? Specifically an increase to the "roll a dice for each enemy within 1" inch part?" I think it could potentially make LoC have a use with pox walker lists, allowing them to cause mortal wounds while not having to be in combat with the enemy.

Tetsu0 wrote:
Do you guys think that fugaris' helm on a lord of contagion gives a boost to aura size on both parts of nurgle's gift? Specifically an increase to the "roll a dice for each enemy within 1" inch part?" I think it could potentially make LoC have a use with pox walker lists, allowing them to cause mortal wounds while not having to be in combat with the enemy.

Previously discussed here :

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/740392.page

Hi there, I am building my list and I find myself a bit stuck. If I wanna include a nurgle herald and ,say, 30 PB + 1 nurglins, would I love IA (the advance stuff I can't never write properly) and all the DG stratagems?
How summoning works as list building ?

 Emicrania wrote:
Hi there, I am building my list and I find myself a bit stuck. If I wanna include a nurgle herald and ,say, 30 PB + 1 nurglins, would I love IA (the advance stuff I can't never write properly) and all the DG stratagems?
How summoning works as list building ?

For summoning , don't add the units to your list, just set aside the points.
For what you want, adding a patrol detachment would probably be best

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
Hi there, I am building my list and I find myself a bit stuck. If I wanna include a nurgle herald and ,say, 30 PB + 1 nurglins, would I love IA (the advance stuff I can't never write properly) and all the DG stratagems?
How summoning works as list building ?

For summoning , don't add the units to your list, just set aside the points.
For what you want, adding a patrol detachment would probably be best

So if I want to add just the plaguebeares I don't need another detachment and is enough to set them aside?
Sorry if the question is a bit dumb but I didnt understand what battle forged means this ed.

Battleforged just means all units are in detachments (with one common army keyword). Daemon summoning is a totally separate mechanic that has nothing to do with list building, it's just a way to turn unused points into units during the battkr.

What do you guys think about the new myphitic blight hauler and plagueburst crawler?

Is the PBC worth taking over a Helbrute who gets access to IA?

Qlanth wrote:
Is the PBC worth taking over a Helbrute who gets access to IA?

IA?