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Earth127 wrote:
Hence many wounds, I think some models in AoS have like 15?

Archaon has 20 and a Bloodthirster has 14.

Earth127 wrote:
Hence many wounds, I think some models in AoS have like 15?

also d6 only averages to 3.5 and it's a massive nerf for a demolischer who can hit up to 9-10 models a shot with a large blast.

Not against a Daemon Prince or a Tervigon.

Earth127 wrote:
Hence many wounds, I think some models in AoS have like 15?

also d6 only averages to 3.5 and it's a massive nerf for a demolischer who can hit up to 9-10 models a shot with a large blast.

Less so if large blast => 2D6 hits.

Some posters are so obsessed with speed and streamlining, that they probably would be happy to only do a dice roll off to decide who won.

Removing templates would kill a lot of the immersion and flavour of the game imo

I have mixed feelings about templates. On the one hand, there is nostalgia and the tactile aspects that make templates kind of a fun mechanic. There is no doubt that templates (blasts more so than flame templates) are a source of slowing and contention in the game, as it can be time consuming to measure and scatter a template, and arguments can frequently arise.

If blasts cause multiple hits instead that could be an interesting mechanic that could make big tanks and such feel way more effective against big monsters. Big tanks with big guns are laughable against monsters and big stompy robots. I think a big Leman Russ canon should be a threat to a big Tyranid monster.

I'm neutral either way. It would depend on the execution, and I acknowledge that most of my objection is purely because "thats how it's always been done" which isn't a necessarily good substantive argument.

Has everyone seen the image of the space marine tactical squad written up in a
Format similar to AOS making the rounds? Has that been proven a fake or is it still unconfirmed?

 frozenwastes wrote:
In a lot of areas, the local community needs a purge. The local 40k scene is made up of waac "that guys" who get off crushing new players so they never come back (they actually boisterously brag about beating someone so bad they never come back). So if a mass army invalidation causes them to all rage quit, then the Age of the Emperor can't come soon enough.

You know what? I agree. I've had the misfortune to know so many of these kinds of players over the years, and if this big change helps clear them out then happy days.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
I have mixed feelings about templates. On the one hand, there is nostalgia and the tactile aspects that make templates kind of a fun mechanic. There is no doubt that templates (blasts more so than flame templates) are a source of slowing and contention in the game, as it can be time consuming to measure and scatter a template, and arguments can frequently arise.

If blasts cause multiple hits instead that could be an interesting mechanic that could make big tanks and such feel way more effective against big monsters. Big tanks with big guns are laughable against monsters and big stompy robots. I think a big Leman Russ canon should be a threat to a big Tyranid monster.

I'm neutral either way. It would depend on the execution, and I acknowledge that most of my objection is purely because "thats how it's always been done" which isn't a necessarily good substantive argument.

I think templates worked fine when there was a fairly limited number of models and weapon types on the table. The bigger and more varied the game has gotten, the more templates have become a hassle or a constriction on design.

Agreed with the tanks vs. monsters point, and also tanks vs. tanks. It always boggled my mind that the Leman Russ battle cannon was almost entirely impotent against other heavy tanks.

 streetsamurai wrote:
Some posters are so obsessed with speed and streamlining, that they probably would be happy to only do a dice roll off to decide who won.

Removing templates would kill a lot of the immersion and flavour of the game imo

Agreed, removing blast and flamer templates would really suck. It seems most of these people would be better serve with playing magic or video games if they dislike models placement so much and feels templates takes too much time. Thats not to say that some of the abuses can't be removed. A squadron of tanks shooting a tons of barrage weapons is simply not fun though

Templates are a drag. I don't think I have seen anything else in the game result in as many arguments as templates and scatter. So not only do they slow the game down on the own, but the 'discussion' that ensues bogs things down even worse. This is only exacerbated by the fact that some armies can field so many template weapons.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
In a lot of areas, the local community needs a purge. The local 40k scene is made up of waac "that guys" who get off crushing new players so they never come back (they actually boisterously brag about beating someone so bad they never come back). So if a mass army invalidation causes them to all rage quit, then the Age of the Emperor can't come soon enough.

You know what? I agree. I've had the misfortune to know so many of these kinds of players over the years, and if this big change helps clear them out then happy days.

Waaaaaaahhh, they play the game in a way I don't like so I want them out I highly dislike waac types, but instead of hoping they quit rage an hobby they enjoy and spent countless $ and hours in, I simply don't play with them and set up my games with similarr minded players

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
In a lot of areas, the local community needs a purge. The local 40k scene is made up of waac "that guys" who get off crushing new players so they never come back (they actually boisterously brag about beating someone so bad they never come back). So if a mass army invalidation causes them to all rage quit, then the Age of the Emperor can't come soon enough.

You know what? I agree. I've had the misfortune to know so many of these kinds of players over the years, and if this big change helps clear them out then happy days.

Waaaaaaahhh, they play the game in a way I don't like so I want them out I highly dislike waac types, but instead of hoping they quit rage an hobby they enjoy and spent countless $ and hours in, I simply don't play with them and set up my games with simalar minded players

You yourself just said that people who don't like/want templates should
Go play computer games or ccg. How is that any different? Pot meet kettle...

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
In a lot of areas, the local community needs a purge. The local 40k scene is made up of waac "that guys" who get off crushing new players so they never come back (they actually boisterously brag about beating someone so bad they never come back). So if a mass army invalidation causes them to all rage quit, then the Age of the Emperor can't come soon enough.

You know what? I agree. I've had the misfortune to know so many of these kinds of players over the years, and if this big change helps clear them out then happy days.

Waaaaaaahhh, they play the game in a way I don't like so I want them out I highly dislike waac types, but instead of hoping they quit rage an hobby they enjoy and spent countless $ and hours in, I simply don't play with them and set up my games with simalar minded players

Good for you.

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
In a lot of areas, the local community needs a purge. The local 40k scene is made up of waac "that guys" who get off crushing new players so they never come back (they actually boisterously brag about beating someone so bad they never come back). So if a mass army invalidation causes them to all rage quit, then the Age of the Emperor can't come soon enough.

You know what? I agree. I've had the misfortune to know so many of these kinds of players over the years, and if this big change helps clear them out then happy days.

Waaaaaaahhh, they play the game in a way I don't like so I want them out I highly dislike waac types, but instead of hoping they quit rage an hobby they enjoy and spent countless $ and hours in, I simply don't play with them and set up my games with simalar minded players

Sorry, if a group of people think it is a good thing to stomp new players so badly they never come back to a given club, convention or store, that's objectively bad for the future of the hobby.

The people they drive away may never find people like you or I before they quit.

So yes, I hope the Age of the Emperor causes them to feel like all the time and money they spent was wasted to the point that they quit. I hope they feel disregarded and betrayed. They're the bullies who should be driven away and if a new edition helps that, great. The current one seems to be attracting those sort of people and all the reasonable people are playing Age of Sigmar, X-Wing, Bolt Action, Flames of War and so on.

I've been looking to get back into 40k with every new edition since I stopped playing in 5th, but the local community is definitely a barrier. I think it's caused in part by the current approach to the rules that rewards enfranchisement and punishes unfamiliarity way too much

If you don't have players doing this sort of thing to your local 40k community, or if they are such a small minority, then great. What I said only applies to those who would brag about beating someone so bad they never come back to play again. Or those who approve when others do so.

This postmodernism of "If they stomp noobs and make then quit, its just how they play, just let them" its absurd. Obviously, we are not gonna go and broke theirs model and punch them in the face, but lest not pretend those kind of players are any good to the hobby.

They are just detrimental to the long run, just like internet trolls, etc... I have no problems with trolls doing what they want with other trolls in his proper enviroment (*cough* 4chan *cough*) but when they just flee free like winged monkeys and start pooping in everyones faces, then things get ugly.

A healthy community has to get rid of some type of players. Thats basic.

 frozenwastes wrote:

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
In a lot of areas, the local community needs a purge. The local 40k scene is made up of waac "that guys" who get off crushing new players so they never come back (they actually boisterously brag about beating someone so bad they never come back). So if a mass army invalidation causes them to all rage quit, then the Age of the Emperor can't come soon enough.

You know what? I agree. I've had the misfortune to know so many of these kinds of players over the years, and if this big change helps clear them out then happy days.

Waaaaaaahhh, they play the game in a way I don't like so I want them out I highly dislike waac types, but instead of hoping they quit rage an hobby they enjoy and spent countless $ and hours in, I simply don't play with them and set up my games with simalar minded players

Sorry, if a group of people think it is a good thing to stomp new players so badly they never come back to a given club, convention or store, that's objectively bad for the future of the hobby.

The people they drive away may never find people like you or I before they quit.

So yes, I hope the Age of the Emperor causes them to feel like all the time and money they spent was wasted to the point that they quit. I hope they feel disregarded and betrayed. They're the bullies who should be driven away and if a new edition helps that, great. The current one seems to be attracting those sort of people and all the reasonable people are playing Age of Sigmar, X-Wing, Bolt Action, Flames of War and so on.

I've been looking to get back into 40k with every new edition since I stopped playing in 5th, but the local community is definitely a barrier. I think it's caused in part by the current approach to the rules that rewards enfranchisement and punishes unfamiliarity way too much

If you don't have players doing this sort of thing to your local 40k community, or if they are such a small minority, then great. What I said only applies to those who would brag about beating someone so bad they never come back to play again.

My posts were mostly aimed at the waac types rather than the noobcrushers, which I honestly believe is rather marginal
I'm pretty confident in saying that the vast majority of new players don't start on their own and play their first games with some unknown veterans but rather with their friends or others newbies. Plus, witht he $$$ it cost to build an army, I don't think someone is just gonna quit after one bad experience

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
In a lot of areas, the local community needs a purge. The local 40k scene is made up of waac "that guys" who get off crushing new players so they never come back (they actually boisterously brag about beating someone so bad they never come back). So if a mass army invalidation causes them to all rage quit, then the Age of the Emperor can't come soon enough.

You know what? I agree. I've had the misfortune to know so many of these kinds of players over the years, and if this big change helps clear them out then happy days.

Waaaaaaahhh, they play the game in a way I don't like so I want them out I highly dislike waac types, but instead of hoping they quit rage an hobby they enjoy and spent countless $ and hours in, I simply don't play with them and set up my games with simalar minded players

Sorry, if a group of people think it is a good thing to stomp new players so badly they never come back to a given club, convention or store, that's objectively bad for the future of the hobby.

The people they drive away may never find people like you or I before they quit.

So yes, I hope the Age of the Emperor causes them to feel like all the time and money they spent was wasted to the point that they quit. I hope they feel disregarded and betrayed. They're the bullies who should be driven away and if a new edition helps that, great. The current one seems to be attracting those sort of people and all the reasonable people are playing Age of Sigmar, X-Wing, Bolt Action, Flames of War and so on.

I've been looking to get back into 40k with every new edition since I stopped playing in 5th, but the local community is definitely a barrier. I think it's caused in part by the current approach to the rules that rewards enfranchisement and punishes unfamiliarity way too much

If you don't have players doing this sort of thing to your local 40k community, or if they are such a small minority, then great. What I said only applies to those who would brag about beating someone so bad they never come back to play again.

I'm pretty confident in saying that the vast majority of new players don't start on their own and play their first games with some unknown veterans but rather with their friends or others newbies. Plus, witht he $$$ it cost to build an army, I don't think someone is just gonna quit after one bad experience

So your argument is that you think something doesn't happen? Wow. Rock-solid argument.

Speaking from anecdotal evidence (yes, I know) I've seen plenty of cases, either demos or first matches, where the local veteran/whale WAS indeed the first experience and in multiple cases drove away from the hobby the new player.

 CT GAMER wrote:

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
In a lot of areas, the local community needs a purge. The local 40k scene is made up of waac "that guys" who get off crushing new players so they never come back (they actually boisterously brag about beating someone so bad they never come back). So if a mass army invalidation causes them to all rage quit, then the Age of the Emperor can't come soon enough.

You know what? I agree. I've had the misfortune to know so many of these kinds of players over the years, and if this big change helps clear them out then happy days.

Waaaaaaahhh, they play the game in a way I don't like so I want them out I highly dislike waac types, but instead of hoping they quit rage an hobby they enjoy and spent countless $ and hours in, I simply don't play with them and set up my games with simalar minded players

You yourself just said that people who don't like/want templates should
Go play computer games or ccg. How is that any different? Pot meet kettle...

That's not the same thing at all. One is playing the game a certain way, the other is changing the rules of the game


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord Kragan wrote:

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
In a lot of areas, the local community needs a purge. The local 40k scene is made up of waac "that guys" who get off crushing new players so they never come back (they actually boisterously brag about beating someone so bad they never come back). So if a mass army invalidation causes them to all rage quit, then the Age of the Emperor can't come soon enough.

You know what? I agree. I've had the misfortune to know so many of these kinds of players over the years, and if this big change helps clear them out then happy days.

Waaaaaaahhh, they play the game in a way I don't like so I want them out I highly dislike waac types, but instead of hoping they quit rage an hobby they enjoy and spent countless $ and hours in, I simply don't play with them and set up my games with simalar minded players

Sorry, if a group of people think it is a good thing to stomp new players so badly they never come back to a given club, convention or store, that's objectively bad for the future of the hobby.

The people they drive away may never find people like you or I before they quit.

So yes, I hope the Age of the Emperor causes them to feel like all the time and money they spent was wasted to the point that they quit. I hope they feel disregarded and betrayed. They're the bullies who should be driven away and if a new edition helps that, great. The current one seems to be attracting those sort of people and all the reasonable people are playing Age of Sigmar, X-Wing, Bolt Action, Flames of War and so on.

I've been looking to get back into 40k with every new edition since I stopped playing in 5th, but the local community is definitely a barrier. I think it's caused in part by the current approach to the rules that rewards enfranchisement and punishes unfamiliarity way too much

If you don't have players doing this sort of thing to your local 40k community, or if they are such a small minority, then great. What I said only applies to those who would brag about beating someone so bad they never come back to play again.

I'm pretty confident in saying that the vast majority of new players don't start on their own and play their first games with some unknown veterans but rather with their friends or others newbies. Plus, witht he $$$ it cost to build an army, I don't think someone is just gonna quit after one bad experience

So your argument is that you think something doesn't happen? Wow. Rock-solid argument.

Speaking from anecdotal evidence (yes, I know) I've seen plenty of cases, either demos or first matches, where the local veteran/whale WAS indeed the first experience and in multiple cases drove away from the hobby the new player.

Same thing apply to your argument also. Not because you think it happens often does it happens often. Anyway, there will be 3 ways to play 8th edition, so most type of players should find their fit.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 frozenwastes wrote:

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
In a lot of areas, the local community needs a purge. The local 40k scene is made up of waac "that guys" who get off crushing new players so they never come back (they actually boisterously brag about beating someone so bad they never come back). So if a mass army invalidation causes them to all rage quit, then the Age of the Emperor can't come soon enough.

You know what? I agree. I've had the misfortune to know so many of these kinds of players over the years, and if this big change helps clear them out then happy days.

Waaaaaaahhh, they play the game in a way I don't like so I want them out I highly dislike waac types, but instead of hoping they quit rage an hobby they enjoy and spent countless $ and hours in, I simply don't play with them and set up my games with simalar minded players

Sorry, if a group of people think it is a good thing to stomp new players so badly they never come back to a given club, convention or store, that's objectively bad for the future of the hobby.

The people they drive away may never find people like you or I before they quit.

So yes, I hope the Age of the Emperor causes them to feel like all the time and money they spent was wasted to the point that they quit. I hope they feel disregarded and betrayed. They're the bullies who should be driven away and if a new edition helps that, great. The current one seems to be attracting those sort of people and all the reasonable people are playing Age of Sigmar, X-Wing, Bolt Action, Flames of War and so on.

I've been looking to get back into 40k with every new edition since I stopped playing in 5th, but the local community is definitely a barrier. I think it's caused in part by the current approach to the rules that rewards enfranchisement and punishes unfamiliarity way too much

If you don't have players doing this sort of thing to your local 40k community, or if they are such a small minority, then great. What I said only applies to those who would brag about beating someone so bad they never come back to play again. Or those who approve when others do so.

Why would streamlining the rules would make the WAAC players flee? THe only reason they left AOS (along with everybodies else) was because there was no point cost, and GW won't repeat that same mistake again.

Lord Kragan wrote:

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
In a lot of areas, the local community needs a purge. The local 40k scene is made up of waac "that guys" who get off crushing new players so they never come back (they actually boisterously brag about beating someone so bad they never come back). So if a mass army invalidation causes them to all rage quit, then the Age of the Emperor can't come soon enough.

You know what? I agree. I've had the misfortune to know so many of these kinds of players over the years, and if this big change helps clear them out then happy days.

Waaaaaaahhh, they play the game in a way I don't like so I want them out I highly dislike waac types, but instead of hoping they quit rage an hobby they enjoy and spent countless $ and hours in, I simply don't play with them and set up my games with simalar minded players

Sorry, if a group of people think it is a good thing to stomp new players so badly they never come back to a given club, convention or store, that's objectively bad for the future of the hobby.

The people they drive away may never find people like you or I before they quit.

So yes, I hope the Age of the Emperor causes them to feel like all the time and money they spent was wasted to the point that they quit. I hope they feel disregarded and betrayed. They're the bullies who should be driven away and if a new edition helps that, great. The current one seems to be attracting those sort of people and all the reasonable people are playing Age of Sigmar, X-Wing, Bolt Action, Flames of War and so on.

I've been looking to get back into 40k with every new edition since I stopped playing in 5th, but the local community is definitely a barrier. I think it's caused in part by the current approach to the rules that rewards enfranchisement and punishes unfamiliarity way too much

If you don't have players doing this sort of thing to your local 40k community, or if they are such a small minority, then great. What I said only applies to those who would brag about beating someone so bad they never come back to play again.

I'm pretty confident in saying that the vast majority of new players don't start on their own and play their first games with some unknown veterans but rather with their friends or others newbies. Plus, witht he $$$ it cost to build an army, I don't think someone is just gonna quit after one bad experience

So your argument is that you think something doesn't happen? Wow. Rock-solid argument.

Speaking from anecdotal evidence (yes, I know) I've seen plenty of cases, either demos or first matches, where the local veteran/whale WAS indeed the first experience and in multiple cases drove away from the hobby the new player.

Lol, so you blast me for deducting something based on my personnal experience than you point some anecdotal evidence of your own to try to prove me wrong

So is this real or a photoshop April Fools gag?

 CT GAMER wrote:


So is this real or a photoshop April Fools gag?

I'd say it is fake. I sincerly doubt they would use exactly the same layout as AOS for 40k. I also doubt they would use abbreviation like Las for lascannon

 CT GAMER wrote:
Has everyone seen the image of the space marine tactical squad written up in a
Format similar to AOS making the rounds? Has that been proven a fake or is it still unconfirmed?

Its a fan made thing, from a little while back

At what point you said: "from my own experience, from what I've seen, etc etc.?"

Even then, the shared comments of FAR more people than you on this site have given plenty more horror stores to support my comment than yours. Maybe not the "predominant" introduction but nonetheless a SUBSTANCIAL issue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 streetsamurai wrote:

 CT GAMER wrote:


So is this real or a photoshop April Fools gag?

I'd say it is fake. I sincerly doubt they would use exactly the same layout as AOS for 40k. I also doubt they would use abbreviation like Las for lascannon

Fanmade.

If I had an euro for every time I've seen this image in the days since adepticon I think I'd make a whole new army.

The point is that you try to discredit his argument by using exactly the same type of argument. Which is why it was a ridiculous comment

 CT GAMER wrote:

So is this real or a photoshop April Fools gag?

It is obviously fake.

 streetsamurai wrote:
The point is that you try to discredit his argument by using exactly the same type of argument. Which is why it was a ridiculous comment

It's not as much as ridiculous as pointing that far more often that the opposite is mentioned to happen, at least in other places than his local meta (and I play in different cities across the year so it's not something as localized as he MAY be)

What is your basis to say that this mentionned more often ????Nothing I'd wager, only your biaised perspective.

Once again, in your rush to ridicule others, you don't realise that you are actually ridiculing yourself

 streetsamurai wrote:
What is your basis to say that this mentionned more often ????Nothing I'd wager, only your biaised perspective.

And his perspective is purely objective too. I think we are running in circles and this is just becoming a circle of NU-UH! IF they go the GHB's route, there will be less "WAAC" because the tournament players that are consulted will curb down the extreme rules up to a point with addient limitations/points. Which I think this is what they are doing since they mentioned they met tournament organizers/players back in these events, implying they are searching for experimented input, which is more needed in 40k than AoS since GW seems to have more tournament players of the latter than the early in-house.


Ridiculing? I think the one that's rushing is you.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
What is your basis to say that this mentionned more often ????Nothing I'd wager, only your biaised perspective.

And his perspective is purely objective too. I think we are running in circles and this is just becoming a circle of NU-UH! IF they go the GHB's route, there will be less "WAAC" because the tournament players that are consulted will curb down the extreme rules up to a point with addient limitations/points. Which I think this is what they are doing since they mentioned they met tournament organizers/players back in these events, implying they are searching for experimented input, which is more needed in 40k than AoS since GW seems to have more tournament players of the latter than the early in-house.


Ridiculing? I think the one that's rushing is you.

subjective is the word you're looking for, not objective. And I don't see why having more balanced rules would make noobcrushing less frequent, nor WAAC attitude. Chess is as balanced a game as you will see, and these 2 attitudes are extremely prevalent.

 streetsamurai wrote:

Why would streamlining the rules would make the WAAC players flee? THe only reason they left AOS (along with everybodies else) was because there was no point cost, and GW won't repeat that same mistake again.

It's not the streamlining at all. It's the army invalidation that can make it all happen. The people who were buying heavily into the End Times didn't just not transition into Age of Sigmar for a lack of a points system.

It's very likely that if you make a generalist army and have a wide collection for your army of choice, things will be fine. But if you've gone through the army list to find the most efficient options and spammed them, then a change to those things can invalidate the whole army. By which I mean, make it no longer work for their WAAC purposes.

There's something about Age of Sigmar that lets people who are still casual play it alongside the more serious players. It's more accessible and doesn't reward enfranchisement to the degree that 40k does. So the WAAC players aren't as attracted to it because their approach isn't as rewarded. I want new40k to be like that.