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 Marmatag wrote:
There have been leaks that Tyranids, Orks, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights will be getting their own campaigns after 8th drops.

I think if you're upset because these first books don't help your army, that's a bit misguided. Or were you expecting them to overhaul every codex at the same time?

What about the Guard, AKA the faction that got literally nothing in our own campaign book(s)

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
There have been leaks that Tyranids, Orks, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights will be getting their own campaigns after 8th drops.

I think if you're upset because these first books don't help your army, that's a bit misguided. Or were you expecting them to overhaul every codex at the same time?

What about the Guard, AKA the faction that got literally nothing in our own campaign book(s)

Mont'ka--Cadian detachment, relics, superheavies, and formations.
Red Waagh! vol 1--Steel Host and Rampart Detachment
Leviathan vol. 1--nothing beyond fluff
Fall of Cadia--nothing beyond fluff and allied characters.

Half of the campaign books where Guard featured heavily, they got something directly for them.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
There have been leaks that Tyranids, Orks, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights will be getting their own campaigns after 8th drops.

I think if you're upset because these first books don't help your army, that's a bit misguided. Or were you expecting them to overhaul every codex at the same time?

What about the Guard, AKA the faction that got literally nothing in our own campaign book(s)

Mont'ka--Cadian detachment, relics, superheavies, and formations.
Red Waagh! vol 1--Steel Host and Rampart Detachment
Leviathan vol. 1--nothing beyond fluff
Fall of Cadia--nothing beyond fluff and allied characters.

Half of the campaign books where Guard featured heavily, they got something directly for them.

I'm sure "got something" is in reference to models, not formations.

Calling it now. Chaos gathering will be the last book. Then 8th a month after invalidating half the book. Then CSM will be the second release of 8th and the first release in a "tone down" effort only for said effort to be abbandoned with the new eldar/sm/tau release. It is done. I have finally become a crusty old chaos player. The world def needed more of us

40k Players: "We want change!"
GW: "Here!"
40k Players: "We didn't want THAT change!"

A tale as old as time...

Table wrote:
Calling it now. Chaos gathering will be the last book. Then 8th a month after invalidating half the book. Then CSM will be the second release of 8th and the first release in a "tone down" effort only for said effort to be abbandoned with the new eldar/sm/tau release. It is done. I have finally become a crusty old chaos player. The world def needed more of us

Oh you!
I had serious flashbacks from what you said!
The best jokes (and lies) have some truth to them... this more than most.
I am pretty much at the stage of yelling at kids to get off my lawn so being grumpy is becoming second nature.
I am trying to find happiness in the pretty models... who cares that they have no influence in improving my ineffective forces.
Oh, a new Abaddon/Bile/Typhus is what I want in my stocking.

Table wrote:
Calling it now. Chaos gathering will be the last book. Then 8th a month after invalidating half the book. Then CSM will be the second release of 8th and the first release in a "tone down" effort only for said effort to be abbandoned with the new eldar/sm/tau release. It is done. I have finally become a crusty old chaos player. The world def needed more of us

Agreed with the 3rd book being the last book (of 7th) and leading into 8th and invalidating what was before BUT - I don't think they are going to release CSM as a Codex. I think they are going to do away with Codexes entirely.

 cvtuttle wrote:

Table wrote:
Calling it now. Chaos gathering will be the last book. Then 8th a month after invalidating half the book. Then CSM will be the second release of 8th and the first release in a "tone down" effort only for said effort to be abbandoned with the new eldar/sm/tau release. It is done. I have finally become a crusty old chaos player. The world def needed more of us

Agreed with the 3rd book being the last book (of 7th) and leading into 8th and invalidating what was before BUT - I don't think they are going to release CSM as a Codex. I think they are going to do away with Codexes entirely.

Doesn't change CSM being 'toned down' as part of a new 'direction' only to be conveniently forgotten when the Holy Trinity of Tau/Eldar/SM come up for rules writing 2 months later....

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
There have been leaks that Tyranids, Orks, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights will be getting their own campaigns after 8th drops.

I think if you're upset because these first books don't help your army, that's a bit misguided. Or were you expecting them to overhaul every codex at the same time?

What about the Guard, AKA the faction that got literally nothing in our own campaign book(s)

Mont'ka--Cadian detachment, relics, superheavies, and formations.
Red Waagh! vol 1--Steel Host and Rampart Detachment
Leviathan vol. 1--nothing beyond fluff
Fall of Cadia--nothing beyond fluff and allied characters.

Half of the campaign books where Guard featured heavily, they got something directly for them.

I'm sure "got something" is in reference to models, not formations.

I think not giving Guard any new characters in the Trimvirate was deliberate choice, and it seems weird but I've been doing some thinking and... narritively makes sense, introducing a new guard character (beyond the fact that the trimvirates tend to be powerful super human chars, IE not guard) would by necessity divert the attention away from Creed, who deserves the spotlight. introducing a plastic kit for creed would also be a bit weird if they killed him off (we dunno if he has effectively been killed off or not yet, this way at least preserves some suprise)



regarding a chaos Trimvirate, I hope we don't get one. I hope INSTEAD we get trimvirates for some of the sub factions therein. a "Trimvirate of the black legion" a trimvirate of the night lords. etc.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 cvtuttle wrote:
Doesn't change CSM being 'toned down' as part of a new 'direction' only to be conveniently forgotten when the Holy Trinity of Tau/Eldar/SM come up for rules writing 2 months later....

Weren't Tau considered bad for quite a while, and only in the last couple editions got overpowered? I read that several times, but I'm just repeating what other people have written and wouldn't really know myself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
regarding a chaos Trimvirate, I hope we don't get one. I hope INSTEAD we get trimvirates for some of the sub factions therein. a "Trimvirate of the black legion" a trimvirate of the night lords. etc.

There are nine original traitor legions*, would three triumvirates work? Each with a character from a different legion.

If they did a triumvirate for each leach that would take the rest of the year, unless they really stepped up their release schedule.

*I'm not counting traitors who didn't get caught, like the Dark Angels, or mutant aberrations like the Space Wolves and Blood Angels. Also, I'm rounding up, since it would be 8.5 traitor legions when accounting for the Alpha Legion.

yeah three trimvirates would work.

there's also the matter of deamon primarchs. GW might instead try to give us more of those, perhaps giving us Mortarian, Fulgrim, and Angron, (they do seem to prefer their marked stuff. I don't really have high hopes of seeing Pertabo or other ones.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

Weren't Tau considered bad for quite a while, and only in the last couple editions got overpowered? I read that several times, but I'm just repeating what other people have written and wouldn't really know myself.

Tau weren't so much a victim of their own Codex as they were victims of the core ruleset. 3rd ed Tau was meh, 4th ed exploited the new assault rules and ability to fire through transport skimmers to create Fish of Fury (basically, have fun assaulting through devilfish that you cannot hit or hurt while they shoot you through them). 5th ed - I'll be honest, that was the time I put 40k down for an entire edition because I was sick of what they did to CSM.

Then they reached Holy Trinity status in 6th ed and have sat there ever since.

Eldar have always, always been problematic in terms of balance and design from 2nd ed onwards.

SM have slowly spiralled beyond CSM - in 2nd and 3rd ed. they were about par but slowly spiralled away from eachother. I think for me the real killer was late 4th going into 5th ed - when CSM basically lost all their 3.5 options and SM....suddenly got all of them in their 5th ed. Codex. From that point it's just been a slow spiral of catch up.

In an ideal world we'd have all the armies rules released on an edition release - that would avoid power creep outside of new factions and it would also avoid the unfortunate situation where GW suddenly change their design direction.

4th ed. was tame books, 5th ed spiralled then went subdued. We saw it in 6th as well - compare CSM and Dark Angels to Tau and Eldar to Tyranids and Blood Angels. You've got 2 incredibly weak and overpointed books, 2 gems and then 2 mediocre books. You can clearly tell when someone brought the designers and rules writers in and slapped them on the wrist for power creep.

But unfortunately this doesn't match GW's sales model. Which is sad.

Because GW sales are now BIG RELEASE, 2-3 weeks of splash then BIG RELEASE.

In the past you had things staggered out over time for all systems and different armies got releases each month. Mind you we also didn't have the 'if the model doesn't exist the rules don't exist' situation that we have now.

Whats funny is that the new chaos releases have sold incredibly well. All my local shops were out of traitor legions books the day it came it out. I had to reserve a copy a myself. Even the US webstore was out of them (before launch day may I add). People want to play chaos, that much is certain. But GW just does not get it. Which is sad because they are losing money with shoddy rule writing and neglect. CSM can be one of the top sellers, even more than tau with proper rules. Well see if GW ever gets up to speed with that.

And as far as CSM not getting a new codex? Its possible. But then we would be bottom tier for eternity.

I definatly think people want to play chaos, that said I think part of the problem is chaos tries to do too much with one codex. yes Codex Space marines has chapter tactics that give flavor to each chapter, but aside from black templars who are special, they're pretty similer, oddball outliers like space wolves, dark angels, blood angels, Grey Knights, all have their own codex. Imagine trying to create a single codex for space wolves, grey knights, black templars, and vanilla marines all out of one codex. it'd be a mess, and anyone wanting to run say a thematic GKs army would likely be building an army around GKTs and termy librarians, simply cause thats all they had. IMHO chaos needs a "chaos space marine codex" a "Emperor's children" codex a "world eaters" codex, a "1k sons codex" AND aa death guard codex. and even THEN, some armies likely would be hard to do (iron warriors for example really could use some artillery)

sadly this proably won't happen. GW struggles eneugh as it is with some of the loyalist varient codexes.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 cvtuttle wrote:

Table wrote:
Calling it now. Chaos gathering will be the last book. Then 8th a month after invalidating half the book. Then CSM will be the second release of 8th and the first release in a "tone down" effort only for said effort to be abbandoned with the new eldar/sm/tau release. It is done. I have finally become a crusty old chaos player. The world def needed more of us

Agreed with the 3rd book being the last book (of 7th) and leading into 8th and invalidating what was before BUT - I don't think they are going to release CSM as a Codex. I think they are going to do away with Codexes entirely.

Doesn't change CSM being 'toned down' as part of a new 'direction' only to be conveniently forgotten when the Holy Trinity of Tau/Eldar/SM come up for rules writing 2 months later....

Ah yes the urban myth that start of edition codex is always weak. Worked for 6th and 7th but of course human memory conveniently forgets opposite cases from other editions...

That urban myth has about as much validity as the new models always have broken rules. Ie none.

Table wrote:
Whats funny is that the new chaos releases have sold incredibly well. All my local shops were out of traitor legions books the day it came it out. I had to reserve a copy a myself. Even the US webstore was out of them (before launch day may I add). People want to play chaos, that much is certain.

That's one interpretation - the other is they printed very few copies to give the impression that it was hugely popular.

If 1,000 copies were printed, then the odds on selling out are much higher than if 10,000 or even 100,000 copies were printed, for example.

Disclaimer: Actual print run size unknown. Above figures used as examples to illustrate a point. Don't shoot the person using a hypothetical to make a point...

 Dysartes wrote:

Table wrote:
Whats funny is that the new chaos releases have sold incredibly well. All my local shops were out of traitor legions books the day it came it out. I had to reserve a copy a myself. Even the US webstore was out of them (before launch day may I add). People want to play chaos, that much is certain.

That's one interpretation - the other is they printed very few copies to give the impression that it was hugely popular.

If 1,000 copies were printed, then the odds on selling out are much higher than if 10,000 or even 100,000 copies were printed, for example.

Disclaimer: Actual print run size unknown. Above figures used as examples to illustrate a point. Don't shoot the person using a hypothetical to make a point...

Not likely. My local GW got in 8 copies. All gone by 2 pm PST of the same day. The webstore was out day one of pre-order. Another LFG got in 6 copies and also sold out the same day. The guy said the only other codex to shift that fast was eldar. Not even Marines proper went that fast.

Now this could just be that Los Angeles players of 40k love them some chaos....or more likely, and supported by the webstore sell out and information gained from others in different cities, is that it just sold really well. It was wrath of magnus that sold under expectations. But thats to be expected. The rules writting was some of the worst GW has put out in a LONG time. IF it was not for the horror cheese I doubt many would have gotten it at all.

stewe128 wrote:
The rumor is after gathering storms that chaos will get their own triumphvirate which I hope has DP Morty, new Abaddon, and someone else. (Not too sure) If this happens it would be amazing, but the love is going to legion that's doing just fine aka DG. Atleast we'd be getting a DP right?

Decimus, Prophet of the 8th, uniter of a Legion. He would fit perfectly.
Soul Hunter omnibus was the best 40k reading experience I have had.

tneva82 wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 cvtuttle wrote:

Table wrote:
Calling it now. Chaos gathering will be the last book. Then 8th a month after invalidating half the book. Then CSM will be the second release of 8th and the first release in a "tone down" effort only for said effort to be abbandoned with the new eldar/sm/tau release. It is done. I have finally become a crusty old chaos player. The world def needed more of us

Agreed with the 3rd book being the last book (of 7th) and leading into 8th and invalidating what was before BUT - I don't think they are going to release CSM as a Codex. I think they are going to do away with Codexes entirely.

Doesn't change CSM being 'toned down' as part of a new 'direction' only to be conveniently forgotten when the Holy Trinity of Tau/Eldar/SM come up for rules writing 2 months later....

Ah yes the urban myth that start of edition codex is always weak. Worked for 6th and 7th but of course human memory conveniently forgets opposite cases from other editions...

That urban myth has about as much validity as the new models always have broken rules. Ie none.

Way to not actually read what you're replying to chap.

Good to see the urban myth of forum posters actually being literate is still going strong!

BrianDavion wrote:
I think not giving Guard any new characters in the Trimvirate was deliberate choice, and it seems weird but I've been doing some thinking and... narritively makes sense, introducing a new guard character (beyond the fact that the trimvirates tend to be powerful super human chars, IE not guard) would by necessity divert the attention away from Creed, who deserves the spotlight.

I think it was pretty neat that GW gave Creed the spotlight. That said, we are running low on IG characters left in the codex. Like who do we even have left? Marbo gone, Chenkov gone, Kell gone, Macharius gone, Bastonne is gone...I don't have codex infront of me but I'm pretty sure Mogul Kamir & Captain Al'Rahem are gone also?

We have like 3-4 heroes left. The hell...?

GW won't touch anything Armageddon related with a 10 foot pole, so we can count Commissar Yarrick out. Which leaves us with...Straken, Harker & Pask?

I can't imagine how Cadian players are feeling right now. Not only was their homeworld just wiped out, they barely received mention in the gathering storm lore & they received nothing new to boot. I'm sure Creed will return to guide the billions of Cadians that remain in the galaxy but they were left wanting. To much emphasis was spent on emotion of demi-gods and not the actual conflict. It was all Cawl feels regret, Greyfox is confused, Celestine sheds tear for Guilliman bla bla bla.

Talk about the conflict. You literally just destroyed the poster army for the IG and they barely received mention...

Commissar Benny wrote:


GW won't touch anything Armageddon related with a 10 foot pole

Well obviously. Else they would have to address the fact that 3/4 of the flagship armies for Armageddon are utter crap and need their books overhauled completely.

BrianDavion wrote:
and even THEN, some armies likely would be hard to do (iron warriors for example really could use some artillery

Way back when Iron Warriors could take Basilisks. If you include Forgeworld then in some ways things are better than ever for Iron Warriors as you can ally in Renegades & Heretics artillery while using the mandatory troops choices as cannon fodder. Seems like a very fluffy Iron Warriors way of doing things.

Now I just need to decide what I'm going to do with my old 3rd ed. Iron Warriors Khorne Berserkers. I don't think I want to start a full World Eaters army. Maybe just a Kill Team.

Guard got nothing? Is that for real, did I just read that? You can take 3 new HQs and you get a formation where when units die they walk back on to the battlefield.

Or Belasarius giving +3 ballistic skill to your guard tank army? I guess that's worthless? Or the 4++? What a useless buff.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Commissar Benny wrote:


GW won't touch anything Armageddon related with a 10 foot pole

Well obviously. Else they would have to address the fact that 3/4 of the flagship armies for Armageddon are utter crap and need their books overhauled completely.

I thought it was because they didn't want to advance the plot?

 Marmatag wrote:
Guard got nothing? Is that for real, did I just read that? You can take 3 new HQs and you get a formation where when units die they walk back on to the battlefield.

Or Belasarius giving +3 ballistic skill to your guard tank army? I guess that's worthless? Or the 4++? What a useless buff.

Taking a page from the CSM salt mine, the complaint is all those buffs are outside the IG faction. Even the Castellan Detachment (as good it is, which it is very good) requires you take a minimum 2 different factions.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Commissar Benny wrote:


GW won't touch anything Armageddon related with a 10 foot pole

Well obviously. Else they would have to address the fact that 3/4 of the flagship armies for Armageddon are utter crap and need their books overhauled completely.

I thought it was because they didn't want to advance the plot?

If they're blowing up Cadia and Biel-tan maybe we'll see a fourth war for Armageddon with the Orks winning and/or Ghazzy taking a final bolter round to the dome?

If the Armageddon armies are mostly not good then maybe it would actually make for a fun and evenly matched campaign?

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Commissar Benny wrote:


GW won't touch anything Armageddon related with a 10 foot pole

Well obviously. Else they would have to address the fact that 3/4 of the flagship armies for Armageddon are utter crap and need their books overhauled completely.

I thought it was because they didn't want to advance the plot?

If they're blowing up Cadia and Biel-tan maybe we'll see a fourth war for Armageddon with the Orks winning and/or Ghazzy taking a final bolter round to the dome?

If the Armageddon armies are mostly not good then maybe it would actually make for a fun and evenly matched campaign?

Doubtful it'll happen, but I'd love to see Ghaz win, conquer Armageddon, and ascend to the role of Prim-Ork. It'd be nice to have a legitimate Ork threat again.

 Marmatag wrote:
Guard got nothing? Is that for real, did I just read that? You can take 3 new HQs and you get a formation where when units die they walk back on to the battlefield.

Or Belasarius giving +3 ballistic skill to your guard tank army? I guess that's worthless? Or the 4++? What a useless buff.

I assume you mean Celestine, Belasarius and Greyfax as the three new HQ units.

Of those three, how many are Imperial Guardsman, none. This is Cadia. CADIA. When you think Guard you think Cadia (they are the posterboys). Imagine this, Ultramar falls, and the smurfs get three new HQ units that aren't even SM. And a formation, that isn't specific to them.

Am I saying IG got absolutely nothing, no. Do some of these things help guard, yes. But also, realise this. This is the home world of the main IG faction. We should have gotten at least a single new unit, and a formation for ourselves, AT LEAST. I would've hoped for more than that. But if we got that, I could be like ok, maybe it wasn't awe full, personally I think we should have gotten several formations, and perhaps even a detachment, like the Cadian Supplement. As well as a few new units, at least two HQ to replace Creed and Kell, preferably more.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
There have been leaks that Tyranids, Orks, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights will be getting their own campaigns after 8th drops.

I think if you're upset because these first books don't help your army, that's a bit misguided. Or were you expecting them to overhaul every codex at the same time?

What about the Guard, AKA the faction that got literally nothing in our own campaign book(s)

Mont'ka--Cadian detachment, relics, superheavies, and formations.
Red Waagh! vol 1--Steel Host and Rampart Detachment
Leviathan vol. 1--nothing beyond fluff
Fall of Cadia--nothing beyond fluff and allied characters.

Half of the campaign books where Guard featured heavily, they got something directly for them.

Mont'ka--One useful detachment and two sort-of-okay detachments, the rest are garbage
Red Waagh--No idea what it does but I have little hope
Fall of Cadia--The last stand of the Cadian's sees them get: Nothing. Sweet feth all. Have fun with that one kiddies.

Guard got nothing? Is that for real, did I just read that? You can take 3 new HQs and you get a formation where when units die they walk back on to the battlefield.

Or Belasarius giving +3 ballistic skill to your guard tank army? I guess that's worthless? Or the 4++? What a useless buff.

Three new plug in HQ's for ANY Imperial faction and a formation that works with ANY Imperial factions and requires a minimum of three. Are you really going to waste points on Guard units when you can have Marines and Knights walking back onto the board 1/3rd of the time?
Or Belasarus giving your Marine tank army +3 BS and a 4++?

Thing about it bakka, who would you rather buff - the underpowered IG who need the buff just to have a slight chance or the already overpowered mary sues?

Its what I keep saying. People say "well you got a force multiplier" and they don't seem to understand, a force multiplier still needs something strong to multiply to begin with.