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I know that big E has always existed, but the astronomican was only built shortly before the HH; right? And by that time humanity had already spread throughout the galaxy. Which implies that they had access to FTL travel. So, how did they navigate? Even if the warp was "calmer" they would still need points of reference, which is all that the astronomican is, right? Just curious.

The Astornomicon allowed humans to make deeper longer trips through the warp. Before the Imperium they had to do multiple hops in and out to make it to their destination rather then one jump.

Humans were indeed very fragmented due to their inhability to make very long Warp jump. They made like Taus and Tyranids, multiple smaller jump. The warp being safer at that point, also facilitated the travel. Due to the coming of the Tyranids and the dying Emperor, the Astrominican is getting weaker and weaker. Without it, the Imperium is doomed to be fragmented again as fast communication between its distant region become impossible.

Warp Drive has existed throughout the entirety of the 'Dark age of technology', the 'Age of Strife' and then into the Imperial age.

Without a beacon (astronomicon) that shines through the warp giving you a point of reference in the Immaterium, you have to drop out of warp quite often in order to orientate yourself.

Due to the astronomicon, longer and more complex journeys can be undertaken instead of short hops.

There have been vague references in some of the latest written material to 'beacons of the Old Night', which may indicate that humanity had, rather than one beacon, a series of them to aid in navigation.
Ships didn't seem to have much trouble navigating the Warp, judging from what shenanigans the Death of Integrity got up to, but no specifics were pointed out.

How did humanity spread throughout the galaxy in Dune before the discovery of Arrakis and the spice?

 Exergy wrote:
How did humanity spread throughout the galaxy in Dune before the discovery of Arrakis and the spice?

Thinking machines, the same type that got banned after the Butlerian Jihad. Are you saying that the humans in the 40k verse had similar machines controlling their ships? If so, then the man of iron revolt must have been pretty brutal.

KayTwo wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
How did humanity spread throughout the galaxy in Dune before the discovery of Arrakis and the spice?

Thinking machines, the same type that got banned after the Butlerian Jihad. Are you saying that the humans in the 40k verse had similar machines controlling their ships? If so, then the man of iron revolt must have been pretty brutal.

It's possible. A lot of 40k is stolen from the Dune universe. Including the 'this one thing makes FTL possible' but it didnt exist when the universe was first colonized.

To be fair, the 40k verse borrows from a lot of things, and it doesn't always do a particularly good job of making those things work together.

They did have calculated warp jump but oje big thing to remember is pre a certain point it was like navigating a calm sea vs a stormy one where there be krakens.

Early on the warp was far calmer. Pre eldar empire fall ish...

When did the Eldar fall, in relation to humanity?

As others have said, there's no definitive answer, not least because 40k's background reveals almost no details of the Age of Strife and times before. I would be inclined to presume that the technology behind the Astronimicon was not new when the Emperor created his on Terra, and that there were many local beacons to guide ships. There might plausibly have been less need for them if the warp really was calmer before the fall of the Eldar.

KayTwo wrote:
When did the Eldar fall, in relation to humanity?

As I recall, the fall of the Eldar was concurrent with the Age of Strife (or the final stages of it), so between about M26 and M29.

Not quite sure sorry.

But I do know pre fall the warp was far calmer, far safer than 40k have to be for calculated jumps. (iirc.. I'm not sure where from)
Calculated jumps with the better tech would be reliable and safe ernough to use.

Its only post that strirred the warp up so bad, forcing more extreme methods.

So, the next question is how would you go about calming the warp?

To calm the Warp you would need to smooth out the intensity of emotions that sentient people across the Galaxy are feeling. So maybe a change in the tone of Imperial life to something more rational and less ideological would be a good start. That would of course require religous zealots to surrender their control and cede to more rational minds. A superrhuman like R.G. could appear and begin that movement, but it would take a huge revamp of Imperial life to undo the existing warp storms that will likely surround Human enclaves across the Galaxy.

KayTwo wrote:
So, the next question is how would you go about calming the warp?

For the vast majority of forces of WH40k, the answer is that you hope and pray, because you can't actively do anything to accomplish the feat.

There have been very few individuals capable of doing so (Sebastian Thor being the only one to come to mind) throughout the entirety of WH40k's history.

KayTwo wrote:
So, the next question is how would you go about calming the warp?

This is actually the main plot of the dual story series, Adeptus Mechanicus: Skitarius and Tech-Priest.

KayTwo wrote:
So, the next question is how would you go about calming the warp?

You basically would have to kill every last human, but not all at once either and in some way the soul energy isn't accidentally used to make another god.

Navigation of warpspace can be achieved in two ways: the calculated jump and the piloted jump.

All warp-drives incorporate navigational mechanisms. When the ship is in real space, these monitor the ever shifting movements of the part of the warp corresponding to the ship's current position. By observing these movements in the warp it is possible to calculate a course, corrective manoeuvres, and approximate journey time to a proposed destination. Calculation relies on the assumption that the warp-currents observed from real space don't change significantly during flight. This method is known as a calculated jump. It is not safe to make a calculated jump of more than four or five light years at one go. The longer the jump, the greater the chances of a significant change in warp current movement.

The second, and more efficient, form of warp-navigation is the piloted jump. This method relies upon two factors: the human mutants known as Navigators and the psychic beacon called the Astronomican. The Astronomican is centred on Earth and is not only controlled by, but is directed by, the psychic power of the Emperor himself. The Astronomican is a beacon that, because it is psychic, penetrates into warpspace. A Navigator on hoard a ship in the warp is able to pick up these signals and can steer a spaceship through warpspace, compensating for current changes as he does so. A piloted jump can safely cover a far greater distance than a calculated jump. 5,000 light years would he the normal maximum jump, but longer jumps have been made. ~ White Dwarf 139 page 16

That blurb omits the merits of Navigators without the Astronomicon (they evolved during the Dark Age of Technology), which would likely increase the range to dozens if not hundreds of light years: A Navigator with the Astronomicon is like a real world Navigator using the using the northern star, without it is like using a compass on a cloudy night, whereas no Navigator is like no compass at all.

KayTwo wrote:
When did the Eldar fall, in relation to humanity?

The rot first began in M18, but it took until ~M25 before it got bad enough to start effecting the Warp. The actual Fall itself and the birth of Slaanesh was in M31. This fits roughly with the timeline for the Age of Strife (where warp storms fractured DAoT humanity's interstellar empire) and the abatement of those storms and the launch of the Great Crusade respectively.

All of this from the DEldar 5th ed. codex:

 Lord Fishface wrote:
As others have said, there's no definitive answer, not least because 40k's background reveals almost no details of the Age of Strife and times before. I would be inclined to presume that the technology behind the Astronimicon was not new when the Emperor created his on Terra, and that there were many local beacons to guide ships. There might plausibly have been less need for them if the warp really was calmer before the fall of the Eldar.

That seems like a really plausible explanation.

For one we know that technological devices to create warp beacons exist (The Pharos).

Secondly, we also know (although I need to find a source) that humanity is capable of producing, or has a few left over, smaller warp beacons that can light the way for slower warp travel far from the astronomican. They're mainly used by Rogue Traders operating beyond the edge of the Astronomican. I think it's maybe from the Dark Heresy Calixis Expanse thing, although I definitely need to find out precisely where it's from.

3d ed rulebook mentions warpgates that where built long ago but are no longer in use. Big portals that connect stable warp currents allowing ships to safetly but slowly make their jumps. They are all but obsolete in 40k though.

Its telling the big E was working on using the webway instead of the warp.

Obviously he saw the disadvantages of traveling through hell.

Beacons exist, but id suspect you have to surface to line up and regain the next one before you"dive" again like taking a star measurement sailing every so often.

 jhe90 wrote:
Obviously he saw the disadvantages of traveling through hell.

Like the daemons that inhabit it?-) Big E's plan was cut off humans dependancy from the warp to get rid of threat of chaos once and for all.