Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am a huge Custodes fan. While their detachment is neat, and their 30k rules in Inferno are awesome, I'd like to see them receive rules for their models in 40k. What would you think they'd need to "make it" as a viable 40k army, both in units they need and what GW needs to produce for them? This is assuming that none of their Forgeworld goodies make the list.


At the very least, I think they need a codex and an HQ choice. That would be bare minimum. This would allow them to field armies of 2000 points, but would be fairly bland and have many large holes to exploit. This might be negated by some kind of wargear section, but then it would be limited to non-weapons (unless they look like the sword or spears they currently have). Also, a good set of Warlord Traits would be needed.


I think the next level would be to give them access to the Land Raider and possibly produce an add-on accessory spru with large ranged weapons on them (kind of like the 30K guys, but maybe with one variant weapon). This would help their mobility and lack of ranged ability at the low cost of a single accessory spru. Also, they might be able to actually handle vehicles.The Landraider could be used as-is, although I see large amounts of promise in customizing it. Also I see some kind of super-special rules added.

At this point we have one character spru and one accessory spru. That's not too bad and could be knocked out by GW relatively quickly.

While I like the FW grav tanks, dreadnoughts, and jetbikes, I don't really see them fitting into the 40k setting. Possibly they could have the Contemptor Dreadnought with a more generic weapons set.

What else do you guys think could realistically be added to the Custodes?

Well at this stage they don't quite fit in as a stand alone army in 40k with the current Fluff..

This may well change depending on how GSIII goes.. the fact that they made them usable in 40k alone had myself quite annoyed as it just didn't fit in with the current story line for the Custodes

They make them into a 30k army then you just use it in 40k instead. Fluffwise they have no place as an army in 40k unless Terra itself was under siege.

 n0t_u wrote:
They make them into a 30k army then you just use it in 40k instead. Fluffwise they have no place as an army in 40k unless Terra itself was under siege.

That's kinda what they are leading up to.

Currently they have no place in 40k outside of a siege of the Imperial palace. However, with RG in charge now, that might change. He's rather disgusted with the apathy of many of the Imperial forces.

However, even as just guards for the Imperial Palace they'd still need leadership, transports, and some fast reaction units. That place is huge, easily the size of a city, if not bigger.

 CynosureEldar wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
They make them into a 30k army then you just use it in 40k instead. Fluffwise they have no place as an army in 40k unless Terra itself was under siege.

That's kinda what they are leading up to.

I doubt they'd make it all the way honestly, maybe get close. Thing is like deathwatch I feel making it completely into "yet another marine army" cheapens the overall feel of their background; like deathwatch they operate in small elite units.. as in their entire force could even be just one guy. Both don't fit into the scale 40k has built up to, however they somewhat forced dw into that role because it just wouldn't have worked as a stand alone force as they were. The custodes in 40k are also fairly different than they were in 30k if I remember right, they're mentioned often stopping threats with subterfuge or from the shadows before they even surface on a daily basis. They no longer really truly fit the golden sledgehammer look they seemed to have in the great crusade; rather now if space marines are the scalpels of the imperium, the custodes have become the hypodermic needle filled with air.

I thought Custodes were around 300 strong and had a mostly ceremonial duty. Sure they are the greatest warriors of humanity by a long shot and defend the most important building in the Imperium, but they probably don't have much in terms of option. Maybe they would have Land Raiders as transports and battle tanks in the rare case they would need them, a powerful Land Speeder varient, maybe even a Custodes Dreadnought. Besides that, I don't they can have much else due to the size and limited role of their forces. At least a Chapter, despite being very small, is expected to do a lot of different things.

epronovost wrote:
I thought Custodes were around 300 strong and had a mostly ceremonial duty. Sure they are the greatest warriors of humanity by a long shot and defend the most important building in the Imperium, but they probably don't have much in terms of option. Maybe they would have Land Raiders as transports and battle tanks in the rare case they would need them, a powerful Land Speeder varient, maybe even a Custodes Dreadnought. Besides that, I don't they can have much else due to the size and limited role of their forces. At least a Chapter, despite being very small, is expected to do a lot of different things.

Welll, there is speculation that the Custodes have been battling Daemons pouring out of a Warp rift below the Imperial Palace for 10,000 years. They're also trained in a much wider range than Space Marines (like espionage and politics). They could be a pretty diverse force.

I think there's also a lot more than 300 of them. Lexicanum says there's about 1,000 now, so about the size of a Space Marine chapter.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adeptus_Custodes

In gameplay terms, they need HQ's and Troop choices. Right now they're basically super Grey Knights without psychic powers, which is a niche they could be built around. There's a difference between making them usable and viable though. For viability, they'd need some type of Jump/Jet/Bike unit, some unit(s) with medium and long range shooting, transports and at least one Lord of War.

epronovost wrote:
I thought Custodes were around 300 strong and had a mostly ceremonial duty. Sure they are the greatest warriors of humanity by a long shot and defend the most important building in the Imperium, but they probably don't have much in terms of option. Maybe they would have Land Raiders as transports and battle tanks in the rare case they would need them, a powerful Land Speeder varient, maybe even a Custodes Dreadnought. Besides that, I don't they can have much else due to the size and limited role of their forces. At least a Chapter, despite being very small, is expected to do a lot of different things.

They were more active during the Great Crusade, but after the Emperors Fall they went into mourning and haven't left the Imperial Place since

Audustum wrote:

epronovost wrote:
I thought Custodes were around 300 strong and had a mostly ceremonial duty. Sure they are the greatest warriors of humanity by a long shot and defend the most important building in the Imperium, but they probably don't have much in terms of option. Maybe they would have Land Raiders as transports and battle tanks in the rare case they would need them, a powerful Land Speeder varient, maybe even a Custodes Dreadnought. Besides that, I don't they can have much else due to the size and limited role of their forces. At least a Chapter, despite being very small, is expected to do a lot of different things.

Welll, there is speculation that the Custodes have been battling Daemons pouring out of a Warp rift below the Imperial Palace for 10,000 years. They're also trained in a much wider range than Space Marines (like espionage and politics). They could be a pretty diverse force.

I think there's also a lot more than 300 of them. Lexicanum says there's about 1,000 now, so about the size of a Space Marine chapter.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adeptus_Custodes

In gameplay terms, they need HQ's and Troop choices. Right now they're basically super Grey Knights without psychic powers, which is a niche they could be built around. There's a difference between making them usable and viable though. For viability, they'd need some type of Jump/Jet/Bike unit, some unit(s) with medium and long range shooting, transports and at least one Lord of War.

Your right, you can make something pretty great with a mix of jetbike Custodes, Land Raiders, Dreadnought, close combat and more ranged Custodes, a few without armors who could serve as spies and assassins and mix of unarmored, discrete leaders and champion like ones. You can make something out of Custodes indeed.

I suspecty a custodes codex would be a small allies codex, likely giving them a HQ choice, rhinos to transport in, and Land raiders as their heavy support option. I know they could have cooler toys, but we've SEEN custodes Rhinos and Raiders

So, hypothetically speaking here, if we had a Dreadnought, a unit of Jetbike Custodes, BS 5 LandRaiders, Custodes with "better than bolters" (I'm assuming something like an assault heavy bolter), and some uber HQ leader, what would the average army look like on the field?

An HQ leader would have to be at least 250 points, be at least 4 attacks base, and have some insane wargear.

The BS5 Landraider would be 275 points without upgrades. I think a Crusader would be awesome for infantry shredding.

A 3-man jetbike unit would be 200 to 250 points.

Alternate ranged infantry would be about the same as what we currently have.

Custodes Terminators? Perhaps 80 point per model.


So, I see the average 1850 list being:
Leader Guy
Unit of Jetbikes
two units of 6 sword/spear guys
One unit of 6 ranged troops
Land Raider or Dreadnought for ranged anti-tank.

Yeah, definitely a pocket army. I'd personally buy enough to make them 4,000 points or higher if this ever happened. I all ready have 30 of them.

custodes are armor save 2 already, would they really bother with specific terminators?

Well, custodes Terminators are in the fluff. They could then be sporting 4+ invulnerable saves as standard while carrying heavy weapons. Also, perhaps an extra attack for being veterans?

They'd be all the worst things about Grey knights and Deathwatch.
GK & DW both suffer through being an army of veteran class Marines that are specialised in some way or other.
The Custodes would be an army of statlines like Marine HQs and a points tag to match - and like DW and GK they'd get swamped by horde armies, simply not having enough shots to compete in a shootout and not having enough attacks or wounds or initiative to win in melee.

A retcon larger than Trump's ego.

 cuda1179 wrote:
So, hypothetically speaking here, if we had a Dreadnought, a unit of Jetbike Custodes, BS 5 LandRaiders, Custodes with "better than bolters" (I'm assuming something like an assault heavy bolter), and some uber HQ leader, what would the average army look like on the field?

An HQ leader would have to be at least 250 points, be at least 4 attacks base, and have some insane wargear.

The BS5 Landraider would be 275 points without upgrades. I think a Crusader would be awesome for infantry shredding.

A 3-man jetbike unit would be 200 to 250 points.

Alternate ranged infantry would be about the same as what we currently have.

Custodes Terminators? Perhaps 80 point per model.


So, I see the average 1850 list being:
Leader Guy
Unit of Jetbikes
two units of 6 sword/spear guys
One unit of 6 ranged troops
Land Raider or Dreadnought for ranged anti-tank.

Yeah, definitely a pocket army. I'd personally buy enough to make them 4,000 points or higher if this ever happened. I all ready have 30 of them.

Land raiders are already overcosted for what you get, plus I doubt a custodies is going to pilot a tank likely BS4 same as any other space marine vehicle. They might get unique vehicles which would be cool as well, but same thing would apply I and I get it would be more assault somehow like less guns more ignore terrain, stunned and immobilized.

They already have vehicles as well as dreads, and I could see their whole unique thing being they have no HQ as it would fit the fluff. squad size minimum 1 or at the very least every model is an independent character. For most units just different wargear keeping the same stats to represent specialized training. They might not actually get psychers outside of allies, and they would be unlikely to have any named characters because the codex is not big enough to hold one of their hero's names.

 G00fySmiley wrote:


I could see their whole unique thing being they have no HQ as it would fit the fluff.

Except for Shield Captains, Prefects and Tribunes... The Captain-General...

Yeah, Custodes definitely have characters. I've played with the formation they have now, and it's not horrible.

In close combat they are VERY hard to tarpit or swarm unless you dedicate a couple good sized squads of dedicated close combat units against a single unit of them. A shield captain alone has enough initiative and attacks to thin out the enemy before they have a chance to strike, after all he's better than a decked-out Space Marine Captian. The only ways to beat them in close combat are: 1. Have A LOT of bodies to spare. 2. Have a large number of AP2 weapons that strike at initiative 4 or higher. Even then, since they are all Characters, they can play Look Out Sir shenanigans. Any race that isn't at least initiative 4 doesn't stand a chance.

However, other than that their only real strength is as an objective sitter. They can't deal with vehicles (especially fliers), they are slow (at least after they deepstrike) , they have no ranged ability, and they have no psychers. I'm fine with the lack of psychers, but they should have transports or fast units and some increased shooting.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
[Land raiders are already overcosted for what you get, plus I doubt a custodies is going to pilot a tank likely BS4 same as any other space marine vehicle. They might get unique vehicles which would be cool as well, but same thing would apply I and I get it would be more assault somehow like less guns more ignore terrain, stunned and immobilized. .

I don't see why you think Custodes don't pilot their own vehicles. They have been noted in the fluff as doing it, and do do it in 30k, with full BS5.