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 DoomMouse wrote:
Around 90 or so leman russ battle cannons should put him down easy enough.

So if I'm playing a 13500pts apocalypse game with 9 squadrons of 10 tanks, then all I'd need would be to focus one round of firepower on him and problem solved

Better to fire the Battle Cannon at those Ultramarine Devastor Squad, Bikers, Vanguard, Assault Squad, Sternguards surrounding Guilliman. Just leave him on his own. With only 6 inches movement a turn, even he has fleet, he is not likely to get into combat with your tanks till Turn 3. His man around him, however, under his awesome buffs, Will become quite scary.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JakeSiren wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:
Throw 90 points of Pink Horrors at it and tie it up for 3 turns. Do it twice and RG is a non-event.

I am afraid those Horrors will vanish back to the Warp due to Daemonic instability test in the 1st turn. Better way is still shoot StrD at him, all mass up Str6+ and drown his company who are mere T4 3+ armor. This Primarch, unlike Magnus is not a unkillable killing machine in his own right But is a great support Character to be placed in the center of an army. Once all those Ultramarines are dead, the Primarch's awesome buff ability is useless and he himself is weak in dishing out damage, due to how slow he is.

And the pinks split into blues which surround him and prevent him from moving until dealt with. Then the blues into Brimstones. It is easy enough to surround an enemy with them. The only reason they won't split is if you roll boxcars.

I think the "split" rule excluded those unit being removed due to Daemonic instability test.

I play Chaos Marines so my main answer is summon and surround with Daemonettes.

Corsairs with a Voidweaver have a hilarious time though, especially if they roll the Aethermancy power that lets them send an enemy unit back into Ongoing Reserve.

As stated, for Admech he is a non issue.

350 points of Grav Destroyers 1 round him on average with canticles.

Just a little more points to do it without.

I'd fight Alpharus with my gulliman

Unless I'm mistaken, a unit of Invisible THSS Terminators wouldn't be bad.

 pumaman1 wrote:

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:
50 conscripts and a priest. 175pts to be able to tarpit him the whole game.

He can hit every model within 1" of him at the same time, as a MC based guy, and conscripts being about 2 deep at 1", that's a pretty huge amount of dead guardsmen. I would see tarpitting him for turn or 2, but you'll either be out of combat, or out of men in not very long

Hmmm that is a problem. Let me consult Tactica Imperialis. *Opens book to page 1, chapter 1, first sentence* "If in doubt, throw more men at it"

Of course! 2x mobs of 50 conscripts with Priests

Joking aside I would still consider conscripts, just charge him in a 'column' formation so it would take a few turns for everyone to funnel in via pile in (and have the priest at the very very back to avoid precision strike for as long as possible)

Magnus vs Guilliman he will be so occupied with his bro for the game denying the witch on 5 max. and Magnus can easily keep the distance with wings.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:
Throw 90 points of Pink Horrors at it and tie it up for 3 turns. Do it twice and RG is a non-event.

I am afraid those Horrors will vanish back to the Warp due to Daemonic instability test in the 1st turn. Better way is still shoot StrD at him, all mass up Str6+ and drown his company who are mere T4 3+ armor. This Primarch, unlike Magnus is not a unkillable killing machine in his own right But is a great support Character to be placed in the center of an army. Once all those Ultramarines are dead, the Primarch's awesome buff ability is useless and he himself is weak in dishing out damage, due to how slow he is.

And the pinks split into blues which surround him and prevent him from moving until dealt with. Then the blues into Brimstones. It is easy enough to surround an enemy with them. The only reason they won't split is if you roll boxcars.

I think the "split" rule excluded those unit being removed due to Daemonic instability test.

I know the wording around it was originally unclear, but they FAQ'd it in Wrath of Mangus so that only box cars prevents splitting.

FAQ wrote:
Q: It seems that the only thing that stops them from Splitting is if
they roll a Daemonic Instability test result that causes the entire
unit to be taken off of the table. Is this correct?
A: Yes.

Edit: fixed formatting

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Feed him a trukk per turn. No way to kill him though.

why feed him? those trukks can outrun him. though I guess that might be unorky

Nah, theyze laffin az dey drivez 'way!! Pure Orky mate!!


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 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:
Ork Stompa - squish! No hit and run for you!

Honestly, I did some for fun rolling, and Gulliman actually has decent odds of destroying a fresh stompa before it can swing or stomp. If a stompa were wounded by supporting fire from gulliman's army, it wouldn't have a chance.

If the stompa didn't get lucky 6s with its str D hits or stomp (melee hits on 5s, to boot), the stompa will NOT survive a second round of gulliman swinging.

But the answer to "how do orks kill gulliman" is "no".

maybe, MAYBE, if I brought a mind-boggling amount of lootas and flash gits, and no one shot at them, they might eventually be able to bring him down.

But as orks, it's almost impossible to kill something like riptides (or gulliman) at range, and gulliman instapawns anything in the ork codex many times over in CC.

So........yeah, just kind of no.

How about 13 5+ repair rolls a turn? So add back 4 HP per Ork Turn on average?

Man I miss Zogwart's curse!

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
I play CSM. Going to screw with his leadership with Fear and wound him over time with Soul Blaze.

I think this is the best plan so far.

Other than the fact his leadership cant be affected by any modifiers

My army has enough grav and shooting for him though

Reading a lot about how people say he is slow and won't make combat till turn three or four but he does gain infiltrate due to his Warlord traits. Therefore, if he is going first he starts 18" from you, moves 6", Runs with fleet another 4-5" so is essentially 7" from your deployment zone turn one. With his movement he is pretty much on your line turn 2. He is not a one man army so all his marines, grav cents, etc are there too killing our stuff. I feel ignoring him is a good option for some armies like eldar as you can out manuver. But Tau who sit on a gun line are going to need to be prepared for a turn 2 charge on a dawn of war, or vanguard set up.

Disregard the infiltrate...

 Kap'n Krump wrote:


But yeah, he can breeze his way through an ork mob 5x his points cost and barely take a scratch. That's a little disheartening.

Love the photo and yes, it's disheartening in a way but... it's also so wonderfully true to the fluff. As if a primarch would give a crap about those Orks! A normal space marine tac squad could kill all them. (In Black Library)

Does he have any protection against leadership lowering effects?

I've killed Wraithknights before with a combination of Mask of Sorrows, armour of misery and Freakish skeptical lowering their leadership down to 5 then casting the Harlequin power Mirror of Minds. We roll off and add our respective leaderships, if we draw or I win he takes a wound and we roll again until either he wins or he dies. With the Primarch being Ld 10 and the Shadowseer being leadership 10, it's impossible for him to win so unless the opponent wants to roll until he dies you'd just remove him.

Not sure how stubborn might effect this, as it's not a leadership test in the conventional sense.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Does he have any protection against leadership lowering effects?

He specifically has a rule to ignore Ld modifiers and re-roll deny the witch

He gets the Command Traits, not the Strategic Traits. Command Traits do not have Infiltrate.

Command traits are rather meh. That's why I never use them.

All of the Las guns!

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
All of the Las guns!

Hold on, I'm gonna need a beer for this.

So with a single lasgun, assuming rapid fire and FRFSRF, a normal guardsman will hit 1.5 times. Girlyman is T6 so you're wounding on 6's, meaning you wound .25 times. Then he gets his 2+ save, so you're down to 0.04166 wounds. Then his FNP kicks in and knocks it down to 0.02777 wounds. You would need 216 lasguns all using FRFSRF within rapid fire range, which equals 648 shots to take him down once. I mean, theoretically if you can get 72 guardsmen into rapidfire range and get off FRFSRF on all of them then, yes, you can kill him with lasguns.

Also, for admech, as people have said before, grav cents. The fact that a min squad of them put out 18 grav shots at BS3 with a 1-2 rerollable due to canticles (on average) for only 165 points is ridiculous.

With orks I wouldn't even try. I'd just bog him down with a bunch of boyz and do my best to ignore him.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
All of the Las guns!

Hold on, I'm gonna need a beer for this.

So with a single lasgun, assuming rapid fire and FRFSRF, a normal guardsman will hit 1.5 times. Girlyman is T6 so you're wounding on 6's, meaning you wound .25 times. Then he gets his 2+ save, so you're down to 0.04166 wounds. Then his FNP kicks in and knocks it down to 0.02777 wounds. You would need 216 lasguns all using FRFSRF within rapid fire range, which equals 648 shots to take him down once. I mean, theoretically if you can get 72 guardsmen into rapidfire range and get off FRFSRF on all of them then, yes, you can kill him with lasguns.
.

Hope the beer helped. as for a massed bodies IG, that is not necessarily unreasonable to achieve in 1 or 2 turns... and fits the IG standard orders, drown that damned primarch in our blood!

JakeSiren wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:
Throw 90 points of Pink Horrors at it and tie it up for 3 turns. Do it twice and RG is a non-event.

I am afraid those Horrors will vanish back to the Warp due to Daemonic instability test in the 1st turn. Better way is still shoot StrD at him, all mass up Str6+ and drown his company who are mere T4 3+ armor. This Primarch, unlike Magnus is not a unkillable killing machine in his own right But is a great support Character to be placed in the center of an army. Once all those Ultramarines are dead, the Primarch's awesome buff ability is useless and he himself is weak in dishing out damage, due to how slow he is.

And the pinks split into blues which surround him and prevent him from moving until dealt with. Then the blues into Brimstones. It is easy enough to surround an enemy with them. The only reason they won't split is if you roll boxcars.

I think the "split" rule excluded those unit being removed due to Daemonic instability test.

I know the wording around it was originally unclear, but they FAQ'd it in Wrath of Mangus so that only box cars prevents splitting.

FAQ wrote:
Q: It seems that the only thing that stops them from Splitting is if
they roll a Daemonic Instability test result that causes the entire
unit to be taken off of the table. Is this correct?
A: Yes.

Edit: fixed formatting

Well, yes, but this doesn't mean that Horrors who are removed due to Daemonic instability get to Split. If the horror is removed due to instability, that horror does not get to Split.
The FAQ is simply pointing out that if the unit is removed due to Instability, then the horrors who died due to taking wounds earlier in the combat phase still won't get to Split. So if Guilliman can kill 5 or 6 Horrors that will split, then cause an instability test that kills 6 or 7 more, he only has to deal with a fraction as many horrors as he would have otherwise.

Except Guardsmen are, what, 4 points a pop? 5? So that's actually similar points cost to Girlyman.

My armies' methods for dealing with the Primarch:
Dark Angels: Ravenwing can probably kite him reasonably well, and their BS2 overwatch with plasma/grav weapons could be trouble for him. In a double-Demicompany Lion's Blade, that overwatch is BS4, so basically a second shooting phase, so most melee stuff is going to have a tough time of it. If I really need RG dead, I could fly a Dark Talon over and hit him with the Rift Cannon (small blast becomes a Vortex if doubles is rolled for scatter distance).

Khorne Daemonkin: The D-thirster is probably the best bet, although a Chaos Knight could get lucky. If the Knight manages to survive long enough to swing, RG is dead since Foe-reaper Chainsword gets +1 on the D table. Then again, perhaps not as the Knight will need 5's to hit. I'd really have to bring Be'lakor or something for some psychic buffs like Invis, though.

Tau: Stormsurge with D missiles is probably the best tool my Tau have for killing something like RG. A Firebase Support Cadre with full units of Broadsides might have a decent chance of putting at least a couple of wounds on him thanks to Monster Hunter. For this reason, Puretide chip is probably a good choice as well.

Well, I can always do the easy thing. 30 Termagants and a Tervigon should tarpit him for the game. Just can't double out and I am fine.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Well, I can always do the easy thing. 30 Termagants and a Tervigon should tarpit him for the game. Just can't double out and I am fine.

His Whirling Flamer attack might make that a little difficult to pull off.

 Freddy Kruger wrote:
Canoptek harvest formation. Spider chooses reanimation protocols as it's ability. Take 6+ Wraiths, charge into him. Tarot him till the end of time.

If you want to tarpit with Necrons, best leave it to the pros:
• Orikan-Star
(Shield-Lychguard with Orikan and a Decurion Overlord carrying a ResOrb attached)

With 3++ (rerolling 1s) and 4+++ (rerolling 1s) combined with an emergency ResOrb, ain't nobody gonna be killing anybody in that combat, so the rest of your army is free to do as they please without worry of papa rowboat.

12 Killa Kanz 3 Deff Dreads 2 Gorkanaughts and a Stompa

We'll take him down with the massive weight of our scrap

Our smog will blot out the sun

And at the end of the fight Guiliman will crawl out from under all the gubbinz, and the Orkz's disbelief that Roboute is still alive will cause the Ork Psychic field to squash him.

 cranect wrote:
So for orks it depends on what you are running. If you take the tide for instance then even after he attacks you will have more than enough attacks to finish him off at less the first time. As long as 30 boys get to attack on the charge they will kill him. Off the charge you need 40ish to swing. Otherwise if you are taking the council of waaagh then he and ghazzy can have a nice fun eternal fight of stalling each other with 3++/5+++ vs 2++

Note that if you bunch up, he's going to chop lots of boyz down before those swing. Insta killing nobz and non-biker characters in the process.

Anywayz, you need 432 attacks from boyz to kill him once (he doesn't have fnp, does he?) - That's more than twice his point cost in boyz if they charge and manage to strike at the same time and RG never strikes back for some reason. Or 43+ pk attacks. That's ~11 pk nobz on the charge - that would also cost more than RG and would have to live through his area s10 ap1 hits.

Greentide is definitely not an answer. I'd say the opposite - RG is a good counter for GT. They can't run, they can't reliably kill him in time - even if they're very lucky, he can rise up. He can easilly tie up 1000 pts of orks.

You have better chances just tankshocking him endlessly with your trukks, blocking the way and hoping for him to eventually make a frustrated death or glory swing and getting crunched.

Ghazzy and a couple meganobz could probably do it as long as he doesn't get a 6. If he does, Ghazstar is screwed. That'd be approximately 9 manz and Ghaz. Once again, twice as expensive as Girlyman. And He has better chances still.

Celestine, Girlyman, Cawl - are all extremely durable for the points. There's just no reason to even consider killing them a viable tactics when you don't have grav, d or stomps.

 skoffs wrote:

 Freddy Kruger wrote:
Canoptek harvest formation. Spider chooses reanimation protocols as it's ability. Take 6+ Wraiths, charge into him. Tarot him till the end of time.

If you want to tarpit with Necrons, best leave it to the pros:
• Orikan-Star
(Shield-Lychguard with Orikan and a Decurion Overlord carrying a ResOrb attached)

With 3++ (rerolling 1s) and 4+++ (rerolling 1s) combined with an emergency ResOrb, ain't nobody gonna be killing anybody in that combat, so the rest of your army is free to do as they please without worry of papa rowboat.

You don't get those Reanimation rolls against D attacks, which Guilliman is very capable of putting out. Also: How much does that tarpit cost, exactly? Because it sounds like that's pretty darn costly. The most barebones version I can get using what you describe is 5 shield lynchguard, Orikan, and the Overlord with zero other wargear outside of the ResOrb still costs 375 points. So, under ideal circumstances you're still spending more points than Guilliman for the weakest version of a tarpit that will hold him up for a while, but could still fail a Leadership test or eventually get sweeped after 4 or 5 turns of combat - About half the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:

 cranect wrote:
So for orks it depends on what you are running. If you take the tide for instance then even after he attacks you will have more than enough attacks to finish him off at less the first time. As long as 30 boys get to attack on the charge they will kill him. Off the charge you need 40ish to swing. Otherwise if you are taking the council of waaagh then he and ghazzy can have a nice fun eternal fight of stalling each other with 3++/5+++ vs 2++

Note that if you bunch up, he's going to chop lots of boyz down before those swing. Insta killing nobz and non-biker characters in the process.

Anywayz, you need 432 attacks from boyz to kill him once (he doesn't have fnp, does he?) - That's more than twice his point cost in boyz if they charge and manage to strike at the same time and RG never strikes back for some reason. Or 43+ pk attacks. That's ~11 pk nobz that would also cost more than RG and would have to live through his area s10 ap1 hits.

Greentide is definitely not an answer. I'd say the opposite - RG is a good counter for GT. They can't run, they can't reliably kill him in time - even if they're very lucky, he can rise up. He can easilly tie up 1000 pts of orks.

You have better chances just tankshocking him endlessly with your trukks, blocking the way and hoping for him to eventually make a frustrated death or glory swing and getting crunched.

Ghazzy and a couple meganobz could probably do it IF he doesn't get a 6. If he does, Ghazstar is screwed.

Celestine, Girlyman, Cawl - are all extremely durable for the points. There's just no reason to even consider killing them a viable tactics when you don't have grav, d or stomps.

Here's a modest proposal for that Ghazzystar: Add in a bunch of Meks. A trukkload of them. Challenge with one of the Meks, instead of using Ghazkull.
Once the mek in the challenge is dead, you can put your regular wounds on Ghazkull, but Look Out, Sir! all the D-strength hits. Unless you get really unlucky and fail that 2+ roll the one time he gets a '6' on the D table, you should be able to tank him out pretty successfully.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:
50 conscripts and a priest. 175pts to be able to tarpit him the whole game.

That won't work. He has persicion strikes (and shots) and gets to attack all models within 1" of him in CC.

Waaaghpower wrote:

Here's a modest proposal for that Ghazzystar: Add in a bunch of Meks. A trukkload of them. Challenge with one of the Meks, instead of using Ghazkull.

Ghaz supplement - you got to accept challenges with your warlord. Cause of Balance.

Also, you can't join anything else to the ghazstar - unless you're taking codex Ghaz without eternal waaagh and 2++. Which is pretty pointless cause dls megaboss is better.