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I've got a few questions about tanks and the Mechanicum Taghmata army list, and the Ordo Reductor in particular:

-Which, if any, super-heavy tanks (other than the ordinatus) are available to take as Lords of War? In the Mechanicum Taghmata army book, it says:

The Ordo Reductor also has particular access to its own variants of Imperial Super-heavy tanks used during the Great Crusade, while using units from the Forge World publications to represent the wider range of arcane war engines the Mechanicum has access to is also possible (see the following box-out).

The box-out goes on to describe using units from Imperial Armour: Apocalypse/Aeronautica "which do not already have an era-specific counterpart listed in a Horus Heresy supplement." So, the first quoted section would suggest they may use Imperial super-heavies found in other Horus Heresy books, and the second directly supports using super-heavies not listed in other Horus Heresy books. So, does this mean the Mechanicum may take any imperial super-heavy? Astartes or Solar Auxilia/Imperial Guard? I couldn't find any location where they specified which vehicles these are.

-In the same section, it uses more than once the phrase "super-heavy vehicles and flyers." Do you think this means super-heavy vehicles and (all)flyers or super-heavy vehicles and super-heavy flyers? I.E.. could a mechanicum army take a non Super-heavy flyer, like a Fire-raptor?

The third question is less about rules interpretation. Do you think it would matter which Medusa model (Legion, Solar Auxilia, or Armageddon pattern) I use to represent an Ordo Reductor Artillery Tank. Since I will be equipping my Medusas with siege plating, I think a closed top (Solar Auxilia or Armageddon) model would be most appropriate.

1. I think the bullet point is referencing the minotaur artillery tank in a really ham-fisted way: the minotaur is a super-heavy tank, but in the hands of the Ordo Reductor of 30k, it has heavy sheilding replaced with force-feilds and thus becomes a 'mere' heavy tank.

2. Yes, you can take a super-heavy flyer as long as it doesn't have a 30k profile already - the 'sub-orbital strike wing' covers your non-super-heavy flyers.

3. The question is; what fluff have you applied to your army and which faction you are more likely to have blagged comandeerd them from? I like playing isstvan 3 battles so i went for legion medusas to represent the marine legion ones left after the bombs dropped.

Next!

1. If its in an imperial armour book and it is not reprinted in a Horus Heresy supplement you can take it. For example a Praetor Armoured Assault Launcher or a Macharius Vulcan would be a legal choice but a Minotaur Artillery Tank or a Malcador as a Lord of War would not be since it is reprinted in a Horus Heresy supplement.

2 Basically anything that is in a Horus Heresy supplement is a big fat NO. Unless you could take it normally. Mainly you are looking for Imperial guard tanks, since I believe all Marine super heavies already have era-specific counterpart listed in a Horus Heresy supplement.
Ie, A typhon is in IA2 second edition, but since it has a printing in a Horus Heresy supplement It can not be chosen. You can NOT take anything from Horus Heresy supplement that is not a normal choice, no Solar Auxilia Stormhammer for example.

3 Same rules apply for flyers, a FIre-Raptor is a era-specific counterpart listed in a Horus Heresy supplement so NO. However a Imperial Navy Marauder Destroyer is legal, so would a Imperial Navy Vulture Gunship.
You can take normal flyers as a Sub orbital wing such as a Avenger Strike Fighter tho I would recommend using normal fast attack slots, Had considered Punisher cannon Vulture Gunships as a sub orbital wing since admech often lacks weight of fire.

4. I use Solar Aux medusa personally with the seige armour upgrade but since they do not have a model any version of the medusa should be a fine stand in, legion, IG, or solar ax.

I take it they updated the Red book at some point to include:

The Ordo Reductor also has particular access to its own variants of Imperial Super-heavy tanks used during the Great Crusade, while using units from the Forge World publications to represent the wider range of arcane war engines the Mechanicum has access to is also possible (see the following box-out).

Since my one, which I've had for just over a year now, doesn't have that bit in it.

If I've understood this thread properly, we can basically take any of the Macharius variants, bar the Gorgon?

 SirDonlad wrote:
1. I think the bullet point is referencing the minotaur artillery tank in a really ham-fisted way: the minotaur is a super-heavy tank, but in the hands of the Ordo Reductor of 30k, it has heavy sheilding replaced with force-feilds and thus becomes a 'mere' heavy tank.

If they intend only to reference the Minotaur, that is inarticulate. The most natural explanation, taking the pieces together, would be that they have access only to the 40k versions not covered in 30k materials because where a 30k version exists, they use that version.

How literally is this applied? The Solar Auxilia Stormlord has a different name and slightly different profile than the 40k Stormlord. Some Malcador tanks have a 30k version and others don't, so this variants can be taken?

I've shot an email to Forgeworld. Hopefully they can provide some clarity.

 Buddingsquaw wrote:
I take it they updated the Red book at some point to include:

The Ordo Reductor also has particular access to its own variants of Imperial Super-heavy tanks used during the Great Crusade, while using units from the Forge World publications to represent the wider range of arcane war engines the Mechanicum has access to is also possible (see the following box-out).

Since my one, which I've had for just over a year now, doesn't have that bit in it.

If I've understood this thread properly, we can basically take any of the Macharius variants, bar the Gorgon?

Page 21, Think they only printed 1 edition of the red book for mechanicum.

You can take a few others, Gorgon is no good, its in militia cults redbook.
The Macharius Vulcan is worth taking.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

chmcclellan wrote:

 SirDonlad wrote:
1. I think the bullet point is referencing the minotaur artillery tank in a really ham-fisted way: the minotaur is a super-heavy tank, but in the hands of the Ordo Reductor of 30k, it has heavy sheilding replaced with force-feilds and thus becomes a 'mere' heavy tank.

If they intend only to reference the Minotaur, that is inarticulate. The most natural explanation, taking the pieces together, would be that they have access only to the 40k versions not covered in 30k materials because where a 30k version exists, they use that version.

How literally is this applied? The Solar Auxilia Stormlord has a different name and slightly different profile than the 40k Stormlord. Some Malcador tanks have a 30k version and others don't, so this variants can be taken?

I've shot an email to Forgeworld. Hopefully they can provide some clarity.

Looking through the Solar Auxilia it appears most baneblade tanks are out as choices as well. Solar Auxilia Stormlord is a Stormlord the name and upgrade differences do not matter. I think the only Malcador that's still legal is the defender.

OP

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302242-resource-heresy-era-lords-of-war/

<< my edits >>

Note that selecting Lords of War allows multiple to be selected as part of the same choice; the rules are as follows;
The Primarch; must be of the same Space Marine Legion as the Primary Detachment
Engine of Destruction; 1x Super-heavy vehicle of any type with 9 or more hull points from the primary detachment or from an appropriate Apocalypse datasheet (presumed to mean as above)
War Machine Detachment; 1-2 Super-heavy vehicles of the same unit type each with a Hull points value of 8 or less, and each chosen either from... etc
The Great Beast; 1x Gargantuan Creature with a Wounds value of 9 or more either from the specific army list or an appropriate Apocalypse datasheet (note that no such creature exists, as there are no rules for selecting Gargantuan Creatures)
Monstrous Horde; 1-2 Gargantuan Creatures with a Wounds value of 8 or less and each chosen from... etc (see above)
Sub-orbital Strike Wing; 1-3 Flyers with up to 3 Hull points each and of the same type.

Imperial Armour Aeronautica
Thunderbolt Fighter (page 9, Similar to; Auxilia Thunderbolt Heavy Fighter, page 275, Book IV; Conquest)
Aquila Lander (page 13)
Vulture Gunship (page 14)
Valkyrie Sky Talon Transport (page 16)
Arvus Lighter (page 19, Similar to; Auxilia Arvus Lighter Orbital Shuttle, page 271, Book IV; Conquest)
Avenger Strike Fighter (page 20, Similar to; Imperial Avenger Strike Fighter, page 272, Book I; Betrayal)


Imperial Armour; Apocalypse
Crassus Armoured Assault Transport (page 28)
Praetor Armoured Assault Launcher (page 29)
Gorgon Heavy Transporter (page 30) " << in the Crusade Imperialis Army red bok >>
Minotaur Artillery Tank (page 31) << in Mechanicum Taghmata red book >>
Macharius Heavy Tank (page 32)
Macharius 'Vulkan' (page 33)
Macharius 'Vanquisher' (page 34)
Macharius 'Omega' (page 35)
Malcador Heavy Tank (page 36, Similar to; Legion Malcador Assault Tank, page 69, Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List, or Auxilia Malcador Heavy Tank, page 280, Book IV; Conquest)
Malcador 'Defender' (page 37)
Malcador 'Annihilator' (page 38, Similar to; Legion Malcador Assault Tank, page 69, Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List, or Auxilia Malcador Heavy Tank, page 280, Book IV; Conquest)
Malcador 'Infernus' (page 39, Similar to; Auxilia Malcador Infernus Special Weapons Tank, page 281, Book IV; Conquest)
Valdor Tank Hunter (page 40, Similar to; Auxilia Valdor Tank Hunter, page 282, Book IV; Conquest)
Marauder Bomber (page 47)
Marauder Destroyer (page 48)

Imperial Armour; Volume 1 - 2nd Edition; Imperial Guard
Baneblade (page 91, similar to Auxilia Baneblade Super-heavy Battle Tank, page 284, Book IV; Conquest)
Shadowsword (page 101, similar to Auxilia Shadowsword Super-heavy Tank, page 286, Book IV; Conquest)
Stormblade (page 107, similar to Auxilia Stormblade Super-heavy Tank, page 288, Book IV; Conquest)
Stormsword (page 113, similar to Auxilia Stormsword Super-heavy Tank, page 287, Book IV; Conquest)
Dominus Armoured Siege Bombard (page 130)

Imperial Armour; Volume 2 - 2nd Edition; War Machines of the Adeptus Astartes
Fellblade Super-heavy Tank (page 105, Similar to; Legion Fellblade Super-heavy Tank, page 70, Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List)
Typhon Heavy Siege Tank (page 109, Similar to; Legion Typhon Heavy Siege Tank, page 67, Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List)
Cerberus Heavy Tank Destroyer (page 113, Similar to; Legion Cerberus Heavy Tank Destroyer, page 66, Legiones Astates Crusade Army List)
Thunderhawk Gunship (page 123, Similar to; Legion Thunderhawk Gunship, page 73, Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List)
Thunderhawk Transporter (page 131, Similar to; Legion Thunderhawk Transport, page 72, Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List)
Storm Eagle Assault Gunship (page 137, Similar to; Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship, page 47, Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List; note that no rules exist to select non Super-heavy Flyers with 4HP or more as a Lord of War)
Storm Eagle Assault Gunship - Roc Pattern (page 138, Similar to; Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship, page 47, Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List; note that no rules exist to select non Super-heavy Flyers with 4HP or more as a Lord of War)
Fire Raptor Gunship (page 139, Similar to Legion Fire Raptor Gunship, page 54, Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List; note that no rules exist to select non Super-heavy Flyers with 4HP or more as a Lord of War)
Caestus Assault Ram (page 144, Similar to; Legion Caestus Assault Ram, page 59, Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List)
Grey Knights Thunderhawk Transport (page 218, Similar to Legion Thunderhawk Gunship, page 73, Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List)
Inquisitorial Valkyrie Assault Carrier Squadron (page 230, note that Sub-orbital Wings refer to "Flyers", and not "units", so even though a squadron may take up to 3 vehicles, each vehicle counts towards the Wing's limit of vehicles)

Imperial Armour; Volume 3 - 2nd Edition; The Taros Campaign
Valkyrie Airborne Carrier (page X)
Valkyrie Sky Talon (page X)
Vulture Gunship Squadron (page X, note that Sub-orbital Wings refer to "Flyers", and not "units", so even though a squadron may take up to 3 vehicles, each vehicle counts towards the Wing's limit of vehicles)
Vendetta Gunship Squadron (page X, note that Sub-orbital Wings refer to "Flyers", and not "units", so even though a squadron may take up to 3 vehicles, each vehicle counts towards the Wing's limit of vehicles)
Thunderbolt (page X, Similar to; Auxilia Thunderbolt Heavy Fighter, page 275, Book IV; Conquest)
Lightning (page X)
Avenger (page X, Similar to; Imperial Avenger Strike Fighter, page 272, Book I; Betrayal)

Imperial Armour; Volume 4 - 2nd Edition; The Anphelion Project
D-99 Valkyrie Airborne Assault Carrier (page 104)
D-99 Valkyrie Sky Talon (page 106)
D-99 Vulture Squadron (page 108, note that Sub-orbital Wings refer to "Flyers", and not "units", so even though a squadron may take up to 2 vehicles, each vehicle counts towards the Wing's limit of vehicles)

Ok, more list crafting, and another question has come up. The Lord of War slot allows a "Sub-orbital Strike Wing" of 1-3 flyers, however "These flyers may not be chosen from those already available to the army list normally."

So, the Avenger and Lightening are out. Are these chosen from ANY flyers not available to the list: Storm Eagles, Fire Raptors, Xiphons, Marauders, are there some I'm missing?

chmcclellan wrote:
Ok, more list crafting, and another question has come up. The Lord of War slot allows a "Sub-orbital Strike Wing" of 1-3 flyers, however "These flyers may not be chosen from those already available to the army list normally."

So, the Avenger and Lightening are out. Are these chosen from ANY flyers not available to the list: Storm Eagles, Fire Raptors, Xiphons, Marauders, are there some I'm missing?

Yes but they do give up 1VP each when price of failure (secondary objective) applies.
Not sure a single Fire Raptor is worth a LOW slot.

chmcclellan wrote:

Spoiler:

 SirDonlad wrote:
1. I think the bullet point is referencing the minotaur artillery tank in a really ham-fisted way: the minotaur is a super-heavy tank, but in the hands of the Ordo Reductor of 30k, it has heavy sheilding replaced with force-feilds and thus becomes a 'mere' heavy tank.

If they intend only to reference the Minotaur, that is inarticulate. The most natural explanation, taking the pieces together, would be that they have access only to the 40k versions not covered in 30k materials because where a 30k version exists, they use that version.

snip

Youre not reading it right dude, pay attention to the placement of the comma..

The Ordo Reductor also has particular access to its own variants of Imperial Super-heavy tanks used during the Great Crusade,

This is quite obviously referencing the minotaur artillery tank which has a super-heavy profile in 'apocalypse' and is available only to the Ordo Reductor later on in that book as a non-super-heavy.
Weird use of pluralisation i'll grant you, but that's not the most obscure rules wording i've seen in the HH..

while using units from the Forge World publications to represent the wider range of arcane war engines the Mechanicum has access to is also possible (see the following box-out)

this is saying that when you use said special versions of imperial super-heavy tanks, you can still fill your LOW slot by going to 'apocalypse' etc for vehicle profiles - that way you can use the more niche super-heavy tanks forgeworld have sold over the years without them having to re-profile every model they've ever made just to keep a small portion of the 30k fans happy.

So there is no way to take a baneblade or hell hammer in ordo reductor?

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
So there is no way to take a baneblade or hell hammer in ordo reductor?

Correct. They have a solar auxillia profile in the HH and thus are not rare enough to covet....

alright, that sucks then. how many points would it be to take one as an extra detachment? or is that not possible that way too?

You'd have to use a different force-org chart than the matrix of ruin since it doesn't allow you to take an allied detachment.

edit: I'm not familiar with the Solar Auxillia, someone else would be needed for minimum points costs etc.

 SirDonlad wrote:
You'd have to use a different force-org chart than the matrix of ruin since it doesn't allow you to take an allied detachment.

edit: I'm not familiar with the Solar Auxillia, someone else would be needed for minimum points costs etc.

More to the point you don't get a Lord of War in an Allied detachment in the first place.

However, GOOD NEWS!: while the Baneblade does have a profile in the Solar Auxilia list (along with the Stormlord, Shadowsword, Stormlord, Stormblade, and Stormhammer), the Hellhammer (along with the Stormsword, Banehammer, Banesword, and Doomhammer) do not, and thus can absolutely be used in a Taghmata army as per the sidebar on page 21 of the army list.

(Addendum: Scanning over Azeroth's list of superheavies I will note that you would technically have to go back quite a ways to find rules for the Hellhammer, Stormsword, Banehammer, Banesword, or Doomhammer in an Imperial Armour book (the current rules are in Warzone: Damocles and the prior printings were in Apocalypse books), so you should almost certainly check with your opponent before doing this. I can't imagine they'd say no, but you should still make sure.)

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Spoiler:

 SirDonlad wrote:
You'd have to use a different force-org chart than the matrix of ruin since it doesn't allow you to take an allied detachment.

edit: I'm not familiar with the Solar Auxillia, someone else would be needed for minimum points costs etc.

More to the point you don't get a Lord of War in an Allied detachment in the first place.

However, GOOD NEWS!: while the Baneblade does have a profile in the Solar Auxilia list (along with the Stormlord, Shadowsword, Stormlord, Stormblade, and Stormhammer), the Hellhammer (along with the Stormsword, Banehammer, Banesword, and Doomhammer) do not, and thus can absolutely be used in a Taghmata army as per the sidebar on page 21 of the army list.

(Addendum: Scanning over Azeroth's list of superheavies I will note that you would technically have to go back quite a ways to find rules for the Hellhammer, Stormsword, Banehammer, Banesword, or Doomhammer in an Imperial Armour book (the current rules are in Warzone: Damocles and the prior printings were in Apocalypse books), so you should almost certainly check with your opponent before doing this. I can't imagine they'd say no, but you should still make sure.)

That, sir, is a fething good point. Touche.

I think i was thinking of the super-heavies they get to take in their heavy support choices when i last posted.

...Now I'm curious how many superheavies anybody gets to take as Heavy Support (or other non-Lords of War, for that matter). 40k seems set on leaving superheavies under the Lords of War label and allowing extras via strange detachments, so by my count that leaves us with Malcadors (Legion Battle Tank, Auxilia Battle Tank, and Auxilia Infernus), the Auxilia Valdor, any Knights taken as a Scion-Arbalester or Scion-Indomitable, and the Auxilia Gorgon.

(And technically the Tormentor and AEtos Dios (not sure how to type the combined 'ae' letter here), especially if you're using Primarch's Chosen to field them as a Dedicated Transport for an HQ choice.)

(I'm looking and I'm not sure if it was once a superheavy but the Minotaur is Tank (Heavy) with only 5HP in the Taghmata list. It may have gotten downgraded the way the Lynx over in the Craftworld list did.)

You can take 9 malcadors in a Legion list.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
-snip-

However, GOOD NEWS!: while the Baneblade does have a profile in the Solar Auxilia list (along with the Stormlord, Shadowsword, Stormlord, Stormblade, and Stormhammer), the Hellhammer (along with the Stormsword, Banehammer, Banesword, and Doomhammer) do not, and thus can absolutely be used in a Taghmata army as per the sidebar on page 21 of the army list.
-snip

The fact that 3 of the Hammer variants are available is filling my mind with disgusting ideas of stuffing them with repair crews.
Even worse if it turns out they can hold 2 units, like the Crassus, seeing as they have a 25 model capacity.

 Buddingsquaw wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
-snip-

However, GOOD NEWS!: while the Baneblade does have a profile in the Solar Auxilia list (along with the Stormlord, Shadowsword, Stormlord, Stormblade, and Stormhammer), the Hellhammer (along with the Stormsword, Banehammer, Banesword, and Doomhammer) do not, and thus can absolutely be used in a Taghmata army as per the sidebar on page 21 of the army list.
-snip

The fact that 3 of the Hammer variants are available is filling my mind with disgusting ideas of stuffing them with repair crews.
Even worse if it turns out they can hold 2 units, like the Crassus, seeing as they have a 25 model capacity.

Superheavy transports can hold as many units as they like, so long as you've got the transport space. You can totally fill the 25 transport spaces in a Banehammer or Doomhammer with four Tech-Priest Auxilia with an extra Adept each and have a seat left over for a Macrotek Prime.

(Nine Battlesmith rolls a turn does sound terrifying, but keep in mind that you could get a whole extra Banehammer/Doomhammer for the almost 450pts those nine Battlesmith rolls a turn are costing you.)

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Spoiler:

 Buddingsquaw wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
-snip-

However, GOOD NEWS!: while the Baneblade does have a profile in the Solar Auxilia list (along with the Stormlord, Shadowsword, Stormlord, Stormblade, and Stormhammer), the Hellhammer (along with the Stormsword, Banehammer, Banesword, and Doomhammer) do not, and thus can absolutely be used in a Taghmata army as per the sidebar on page 21 of the army list.
-snip

The fact that 3 of the Hammer variants are available is filling my mind with disgusting ideas of stuffing them with repair crews.
Even worse if it turns out they can hold 2 units, like the Crassus, seeing as they have a 25 model capacity.

Superheavy transports can hold as many units as they like, so long as you've got the transport space. You can totally fill the 25 transport spaces in a Banehammer or Doomhammer with four Tech-Priest Auxilia with an extra Adept each and have a seat left over for a Macrotek Prime.

(Nine Battlesmith rolls a turn does sound terrifying, but keep in mind that you could get a whole extra Banehammer/Doomhammer for the almost 450pts those nine Battlesmith rolls a turn are costing you.)

But paying for all those battlesmiths brings along the soul-crushing proposition of a rolling fortress you can't to squat about.
It might also bring along a firm boot to the nether region.
-----

On a different point: How would we go about a fluffy explanation for fielding, in the case of the Macharius, a unit from late M41 in a 30k army, unless we're already doing the mildly taboo using of a 30k army as a regular 40k army?
Just say our tech bods happen to have a load of blueprints for the concerning armour, which they clumsily misplaced one Sunday afternoon?

My first thought was it could be field modifications established during a civil conflict which eventually became part of a standard pattern - an example of this is the mars universal land engine which had armour plating, weapon systems and sheild generators added during the civil wars on mars and later was recognised as the onager dunecrawler and put into widespread service during the HH. (source is codex:skitarii)

The best reason i can think of is them being a very early tank design by an STC machine which ended up on a colony world with restricted or missing resources; fast forward a couple of thousand years and a young and idealistic adept looking for fame, fortune and data comes across a copy of said design - "a genuine STC!!!" he/she/it thinks "a perfect design penned by the EMPRAH HIMSELF!!!" without realising it's a peice of gak that only makes sense when and where it was produced.
Or maybe that adept really did find something useful in a super-heavy which doesn't need certain minerals etc to make and it became legendary (like an ak47)

The rules for the Malcador in 30k have sidebars/parenthetical fluff clarifications explaining that those rules may also represent various experimental/in-development vehicles or native war machines that have nothing to do with the actual Malcador, I don't see any reason the Macharius couldn't come with the same caveat. "This isn't the Macharius, this is the XVR-118T, reconstructed from a partial STC found on world 76-112, undergoing field tests. Magos Nalax of the Forge World Lucius will later study this partial design when developing the actual Macharius, and will ultimately use much of the suspension design on this vehicle in his final proposal."

Addendum: Just double-checked the fluff blurb in IA1v2 and it looks like Nalax built the Macharius based on data about unspecified 'other super-heavy tanks' the Imperial Army used to use he found buried on Lucius, which implies something pretty much just like the Macharius existed in the Imperial Army in the first place...

Just call the Macharius Lupercal and be done with it.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 SirDonlad wrote:
You'd have to use a different force-org chart than the matrix of ruin since it doesn't allow you to take an allied detachment.

edit: I'm not familiar with the Solar Auxillia, someone else would be needed for minimum points costs etc.

More to the point you don't get a Lord of War in an Allied detachment in the first place.

However, GOOD NEWS!: while the Baneblade does have a profile in the Solar Auxilia list (along with the Stormlord, Shadowsword, Stormlord, Stormblade, and Stormhammer), the Hellhammer (along with the Stormsword, Banehammer, Banesword, and Doomhammer) do not, and thus can absolutely be used in a Taghmata army as per the sidebar on page 21 of the army list.

(Addendum: Scanning over Azeroth's list of superheavies I will note that you would technically have to go back quite a ways to find rules for the Hellhammer, Stormsword, Banehammer, Banesword, or Doomhammer in an Imperial Armour book (the current rules are in Warzone: Damocles and the prior printings were in Apocalypse books), so you should almost certainly check with your opponent before doing this. I can't imagine they'd say no, but you should still make sure.)

these are the gw plastic variants that first appeared in apoc. I do not believe they are listed in any forgeworld publication. And if they are not in a fw book we can't take them.

Azeroth133 wrote:

Spoiler:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 SirDonlad wrote:
You'd have to use a different force-org chart than the matrix of ruin since it doesn't allow you to take an allied detachment.

edit: I'm not familiar with the Solar Auxillia, someone else would be needed for minimum points costs etc.

More to the point you don't get a Lord of War in an Allied detachment in the first place.

However, GOOD NEWS!: while the Baneblade does have a profile in the Solar Auxilia list (along with the Stormlord, Shadowsword, Stormlord, Stormblade, and Stormhammer), the Hellhammer (along with the Stormsword, Banehammer, Banesword, and Doomhammer) do not, and thus can absolutely be used in a Taghmata army as per the sidebar on page 21 of the army list.

(Addendum: Scanning over Azeroth's list of superheavies I will note that you would technically have to go back quite a ways to find rules for the Hellhammer, Stormsword, Banehammer, Banesword, or Doomhammer in an Imperial Armour book (the current rules are in Warzone: Damocles and the prior printings were in Apocalypse books), so you should almost certainly check with your opponent before doing this. I can't imagine they'd say no, but you should still make sure.)

these are the gw plastic variants that first appeared in apoc. I do not believe they are listed in any forgeworld publication. And if they are not in a fw book we can't take them.

I thought the Baneblade was originally a Forgeworld production, made in resin after they adapted a load of the Epic stuff into one of the earlier IA:Apocalypse editions.
As I understood it, GW ended up producing all the FW variants in plastic instead of resin; they're still the same Baneblades, just in an updated version of the original IA's suited for later editions.

I know for a fact that the Banehammer is in IA:Apocalypse 2.

Baneblade was originally, but the versions that where listed where all versions GW added with the plastic multi kit that did not exist before hand.
Exception being the shadow sword and the original bane blade that are/where resin. The others where never FW variants and only exist in gw publications as far as I am aware.

And the first Baneblade was an Armourcast-model.

Azeroth133 wrote:
Baneblade was originally, but the versions that where listed where all versions GW added with the plastic multi kit that did not exist before hand.
Exception being the shadow sword and the original bane blade that are/where resin. The others where never FW variants and only exist in gw publications as far as I am aware.

The Banehammer and Doomhammer are in Imperial Armour: Apocalypse 2.

Definitely plan to use them with my Reductor now.

Azeroth133 wrote:
Baneblade was originally, but the versions that where listed where all versions GW added with the plastic multi kit that did not exist before hand.
Exception being the shadow sword and the original bane blade that are/where resin. The others where never FW variants and only exist in gw publications as far as I am aware.

Close, but not quite. The Baneblade, Shadowsword, Stormsword (the one with the STR 10 AP1 no cover 10" blast) and Stormblade (huge plasma gun) were the original FW resin models. The plastic kit contains all but the Stormblade, as does the GW Apocalypse rulebook.