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 frozenwastes wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
yeah, but I was talking about market research (more specifically demand analysis), not customer experience research, which is so vast a term that it can mean something completely different

It was just an example of something GW has been doing that they haven't announced. Sorry about any other implications the terms have.

Did you know they also have test programs for turning single employee stores back into multi-staff stores?

That's cool I guess.

You know all of this, yet you're not able to point out to a single instance of GW doing any market research. Which is why the most logical conclusion is that they still aren't doing any.

Anyway, this is getting boring.

Peace

 streetsamurai wrote:
This we can agree on. Roundtree so far, while not perfect, has done some excellent changes to GW

I want to apologize for misunderstanding you earlier. Given what you said here, I went and reread some previous posts and reinterpreted them in the light that you do recognize that some changes have actually happened. My apologies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 streetsamurai wrote:
You know all of this, yet you're not able to point out to a single instance of GW doing any market research. Which is why the most logical argument is that they still aren't doing any.

Or that they simply haven't announced it? What's more likely, that they aren't doing any market research or that you just don't know about it? And since there are so many different kinds of market research, what happens if you don't like the type they have chosen and don't want it to count? What if research into the experience of the customer buying their product doesn't satisfy your idea of what market research should mean? I for example, think they'd be better served by looking into the customer's experience of the actual product through its entire life cycle.

Sorry this is boring you, but some of us find this stuff fascinating. We may even have done it (or do it) for a living.

I happen to be a prof in management in marketing at an university. I find this stuff fascinating. What I find boring is making baseless hypothesis on what GW is or is not doing. The only concrete fact that we had is that they aren't doing any market research. Any other opinion is just based on assumptions

Why would they announce that they're doing market research? That's something you do, not something you boast about... unless you're Tom Kirby of course, but then he's no longer making any kind of statements on GW's behalf. There hasn't been a bad word about Kirby from GW thus far, I don't expect to go out and explicitly call him out anytime soon.

As I said before (this is getting redundant), if they were doing market research, we would have heard of some customers who were part of a focus group, or we would have seen job opportunities in this field on their website.

Yet, we have seen none of this, and we have this terrible failure of potential demand analysis that is SWA. So the only logical conclusion is that they still aren't doing any market research

I see taking a statement made by a former CEO and maintaining it still applies as a concrete fact to be a baseless assumption.

 frozenwastes wrote:
What's more likely, that they aren't doing any market research or that you just don't know about it?

Given previous statements from the company that they don't do market research, 'not' would seem to be edging into the lead, there...

 streetsamurai wrote:
As I said before (this is getting redundant), if they were doing market research, we would have heard of some customers who were part of a focus group, or we would have seen job opportunities in this field on their website.

But professor, you didn't hear about the customers that were part of the customer experience work with Bare, so why should you hear about that?

 frozenwastes wrote:
I see taking a statement made by a former CEO and maintaining it still applies as a concrete fact to be a baseless assumption.

That's absurd.

You're the one who was talking about falsification not too long ago.

Since there is nothing that can falsify this 'theory' we have to assume it is still true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 frozenwastes wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
As I said before (this is getting redundant), if they were doing market research, we would have heard of some customers who were part of a focus group, or we would have seen job opportunities in this field on their website.

But professor, you didn't hear about the customers that were part of the customer experience work with Bare, so why should you hear about that?

Yet you knew about them, andfor all the time you've been digging, you never were able to find a concrete case of market research made by GW

 insaniak wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
What's more likely, that they aren't doing any market research or that you just don't know about it?

Given previous statements from the company that they don't do market research, 'not' would seem to be edging into the lead, there...

I don't think that follows given it was the statement of one CEO and not the current one. Who has done all sorts of things differently than the old CEO.

Then there's a larger question of what you would count as market research but other people might say is. Street Samurai wants focus groups and demand analysis. I'd advocate whole lifecycle customer experience research. Others want them to survey trade accounts to get more information there. So many options.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 streetsamurai wrote:
Since there is nothing that can falsify this 'theory' we have to assume it is still true.

That might not be how theories work.

Yet you knew about them, andfor all the time you've been digging, you never were able to find a concrete case of market research made by GW

Some people would consider customer experience research as part of market research... Though some would disagree and I understand where their disagreement comes from, even if I think knowing something about the experience of the portion of the market that currently buys from you is valuable knowledge. As I've already said we all may have very different ideas about what activities we would require before we agree they have done market research.

To relate this back to SWA, am i assuming too much if I think your position is that their failure to meet demand is a direct result of their lack of demand analysis market research?

Sorry I meant hypothesis, not theory

And in a thread about GW catastrophic failure at predicting the demand of a product, it is obvious to what kind of market research we are refering to.

Gentlemen, please feel free to continue the debate about whether GW does or does not do market research in another thread in the General Discussion sub-forum.

For anyone just tuning in, here's the latest:

- GW will print the softcover rulebook for Shadow War: Armageddon
- pre-orders willbegin April 22
- the pre-order period will be longer than the usual 7 days
- this printing will include all of the lists released via PDF
- this printing will also include lists for Adeptus Sororitas and Inquisition
- the Sisters and Inq lists will also be available via WD
- they will also be available as FREE downloads
- if you have the box set rulebook you will not miss anything by not getting this rulebook
- the second runrulebook will also include a photocopyable page of counters
- a digital version of the rules will also be available on April 22

- MSRP is not known
- whether this will be a limited release is not known

Apologies for whining, but can we have a separate thread for GW planning and market research rumors, so this one can actually be about Shadow War? Pages and pages a day of nonsense arguing and bickering about things we can't actually know.

Edit: nevermind, Manchu's got this.

Thankyou Manchu!

Is there ever going to be an actual Necromunda with actual gangs, or is this it? I mean, this looks great and I always liked the 40K Kill Team battle reports in White Dwarf way back in the early 2000's, but I'll be disappointed if the classic Necromunda gangs won't be returning, they were such a cool grimdark aspect of the 40K lore. I was a kid back in the early 2000's with only enough disposable income for a single game (Lord of the Rings) but I loved reading battle reports and conversion and painting articles for Necromunda, mordheim, warhammer fantasy, inquisitor, 40K etc.

Another quotation from Gw via FB:

Games Workshop wrote:This book was not planned originally, but is a direct result of the huge popularity of the game.

Sure. I've said my piece. I'd like to think though, that when people complain about GW dropping the ball on this release, some insight into what might be going on there might actually be on topic.

I do get it though that more people are likely to be interested in talking about the actual product rather than the business factors around it.

I hope this actually ends up having some sticking power and we see people post gangs and terrain pictures in the showcase section of Dakka. I really enjoyed the occasional inquisimunda or inq28 post over the years and hope people get just as creative with this.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Is there ever going to be an actual Necromunda with actual gangs, or is this it?

Based on GW's FB comments, I don't think Necromunda proper is coming back or that there will be official lists for the old houses/gangs. GW suggeted using AstraMil rules if you want tomuse the old models. The other thing is, GW has the post-CH suit policy of only writing rules for models they make (although this doesn't hold true 100% - e.g., BB).

Now whether "this" (currently available lists plus SoB and Inq) "is it" - I really doubt that! My impression from the FB comments is more lists are on their way but we shouldn't expect them to cover every single model.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Thankyou Manchu!

Is there ever going to be an actual Necromunda with actual gangs, or is this it? I mean, this looks great and I always liked the 40K Kill Team battle reports in White Dwarf way back in the early 2000's, but I'll be disappointed if the classic Necromunda gangs won't be returning, they were such a cool grimdark aspect of the 40K lore. I was a kid back in the early 2000's with only enough disposable income for a single game (Lord of the Rings) but I loved reading battle reports and conversion and painting articles for Necromunda, mordheim, warhammer fantasy, inquisitor, 40K etc.

I want to see necro return, but I don't want the classicall gangs (at least not all of them). Some of them were really boring (Van Saar, Orlock) or too similar to one another (Cawdor and redemptionist/ Goliath and Escher). In a perfect world (at least for me ), they would keep the more iconic ones (Goliath, Redemptionist, DElaque, Scavvy, pit slaves, Spyre) and reimagine the others.

Manchu wrote:
Gentlemen, please feel free to continue the debate about whether GW does or does not do market research in another thread in the General Discussion sub-forum.

For anyone just tuning in, here's the latest:

- GW will print the softcover rulebook for Shadow War: Armageddon
- pre-orders willbegin April 22
- the pre-order period will be longer than the usual 7 days
- this printing will include all of the lists released via PDF
- this printing will also include lists for Adeptus Sororitas and Inquisition
- the Sisters and Inq lists will also be available via WD
- they will also be available as FREE downloads
- if you have the box set rulebook you will not miss anything by not getting this rulebook
- the second runrulebook will also include a photocopyable page of counters
- a digital version of the rules will also be available on April 22

- MSRP is not known
- whether this will be a limited release is not known

Thanks.

Sometimes these news threads become completely impossible to follow.

 frozenwastes wrote:
some insight into what might be going on there might actually be on topic

Yes, it definitely has been - especially up until the reprint was announced. But we have come to the end of what can usefully be said about the issue in this thread. Please feel free to continue the discussion in a separate thread.

Manchu wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Is there ever going to be an actual Necromunda with actual gangs, or is this it?

Based on GW's FB comments, I don't think Necromunda proper is coming back or that there will be official lists for the old houses/gangs. GW suggeted using AstraMil rules if you want tomuse the old models. The other thing is, GW has the post-CH suit policy of only writing rules for models they make (although this doesn't hold true 100% - e.g., BB).

Now whether "this" (currently available lists plus SoB and Inq) "is it" - I really doubt that! My impression from the FB comments is more lists are on their way but we shouldn't expect them to cover every single model.

Well, a little while ago, Necromunda was going to be the Specialist Game they worked on after Adeptus Titanicus (according to reports from an event).

Thanks Manchu!

With the inclusion of Inquisitor gangs, this has basically become Inquisimunda: The Game. There's gonna be so much mileage one could theoretically get out of this rule book. AHH so excited to start playing!

Manchu wrote:


For anyone just tuning in, here's the latest:

- whether this will be a limited release is not known

LOL! The burn! Even if it was not intentional...

T

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Thankyou Manchu!

Is there ever going to be an actual Necromunda with actual gangs, or is this it? I mean, this looks great and I always liked the 40K Kill Team battle reports in White Dwarf way back in the early 2000's, but I'll be disappointed if the classic Necromunda gangs won't be returning, they were such a cool grimdark aspect of the 40K lore. I was a kid back in the early 2000's with only enough disposable income for a single game (Lord of the Rings) but I loved reading battle reports and conversion and painting articles for Necromunda, mordheim, warhammer fantasy, inquisitor, 40K etc.

I want to see necro return, but I don't want the classicall gangs (at least not all of them). Some of them were really boring (Van Saar, Orlock) or too similar to one another (Cawdor and redemptionist/ Goliath and Escher). In a perfect world (at least for me ), they would keep the more iconic ones (Goliath, Redemptionist, DElaque, Scavvy, pit slaves, Spyre) and reimagine the others.

How was the Escher gang similar to any of the others in terms of the minis

I have two complete painted Escher Gangs otherwise they would be a great candidate for the GW produce to order thingy. A "Gang" list would be a fun thing for a GW article or a future publication.

Thanks Manchu for sorting the thread out.

 Bottle wrote:
AHH so excited to start playing!

You and me both! Let's hope GW sees the value in doing something similar for AoS, preferably along the lines of your game Bottle.

Shadow War has already given me "permission" to pick up AdMech and GS Cult models,a bunch of terrain, and even .. gosh who would have ever thought, some Vostroyans! I remember a decade or more ago standing in a mall GW looking at some Vostroyans in a display case wondering if I would ever actually get any ... I suspect it is only a matter of time before I order some Steel Legion guys as well.

I'm painting my Gaunts Ghosts now which have been sat on my desk gathering dust for years, and I've ordered two Gaunt's Ghosts that I was missing off ebay, plus the missile launcher girl from the Last Chancers. Probably won't use them for a long time but hey, its gonna be fun to paint.

Might use them in This is Not a Test actually.

Kitbashed together some custom Scions myself.



It's also great news to see that both the Sororitas and Inquisition will be included down the line, can't wait to see their files pop up on the site.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Thankyou Manchu!

Is there ever going to be an actual Necromunda with actual gangs, or is this it? I mean, this looks great and I always liked the 40K Kill Team battle reports in White Dwarf way back in the early 2000's, but I'll be disappointed if the classic Necromunda gangs won't be returning, they were such a cool grimdark aspect of the 40K lore. I was a kid back in the early 2000's with only enough disposable income for a single game (Lord of the Rings) but I loved reading battle reports and conversion and painting articles for Necromunda, mordheim, warhammer fantasy, inquisitor, 40K etc.

I want to see necro return, but I don't want the classicall gangs (at least not all of them). Some of them were really boring (Van Saar, Orlock) or too similar to one another (Cawdor and redemptionist/ Goliath and Escher). In a perfect world (at least for me ), they would keep the more iconic ones (Goliath, Redemptionist, DElaque, Scavvy, pit slaves, Spyre) and reimagine the others.

How was the Escher gang similar to any of the others in terms of the minis

I have two complete painted Escher Gangs otherwise they would be a great candidate for the GW produce to order thingy. A "Gang" list would be a fun thing for a GW article or a future publication.

Thanks Manchu for sorting the thread out.

Goliath were punk man and Escher were punk woman.

Manchu wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
AHH so excited to start playing!

You and me both! Let's hope GW sees the value in doing something similar for AoS, preferably along the lines of your game Bottle.

Shadow War has already given me "permission" to pick up AdMech and GS Cult models,a bunch of terrain, and even .. gosh who would have ever thought, some Vostroyans! I remember a decade or more ago standing in a mall GW looking at some Vostroyans in a display case wondering if I would ever actually get any ... I suspect it is only a matter of time before I order some Steel Legion guys as well.

Thanks Manchu! Hinterlands has continued to be bewilderingly popular with the community and GW have definitely noticed it. So let's hope for something in the future.

Yes, I am also looking at branching out and getting more gangs. I have models for GSC and Skitarii so I am perhaps thinking of Canoness Veridyan getting a squad to join her and maybe making an Ork gang out of the 2nd Edition starter set models for some true nostalgia!