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After doing several small armies my eyes have set to Dark Eldar.
I never realised that DE have one of the most delicate and sleek-looking miniature range in 40k till now.

Now, I heard that DE are ridiculously hard to play but that is not a real concern to me as I'm more into the gaming aspect rather than winning.

Even though they are classifide as hard, are they fun to play?

What would be a good start?
Is the Start Collecting box worth it?
Or should I go with the Gangs of Commoragh box?

I'm guessing I will need a lot of Reavers.

And also are DE high-model count?

The Incubi models are so damn fine looking so I do want them in my army...

Any tips/advice for starting Dark Eldar?

Thank you all!

My DE matches tend to go two ways: I either mop the floor with my opponent or get shot off the board. Few games are in between, it seems (I could just have a bad memory!)
That being said, the popular strategy I use is Raider and Venom spam. Load up the transports with Kabalites or trueborn with special weapons to seize objectives while firing lots of shots thanks to splinter racks. The SC DE box is a good starter for this since it has warriors, a Raider, the Archon and Reaver jetbikes. Reavers are one of the better units and with cluster caltrops, they're good at CC as well. Take them in large squads.

Another popular build is form the supplement Haemonculus Covens, but i have 0 experience with that build.

In terms of cheap work arounds for otherwise stale (the Archon) or expensive (Incubi) models, you should look in the direction of the Dark Elves from AoS. Most of their models, with some light conversions, turn into great replacements for the DEldar line.

Can't say much on what to buy in terms of what's good though. I really only collect models.

Overdose wrote:
Any tips/advice for starting Dark Eldar?

Don't.

If you must, you need anti tank which is haywire and dark lances while you should have enough poison to drown almost everything else that doesn't have an AV or isn't a GMC. Venoms are good, raiders are situational, scalpal squadron lets you null deploy but be careful against reserve modifiers and never expect to win a single game against Tau.

My suggestion would be to look at an Ynnari army using Dark Eldar models.

Apart from that, if you are going pure DE, essentially you are looking at an extremely fragile army that does not pack enough punch to warrant their cost.

The last DE codex was so abysmally bad, it made me quit playing the army. Honestly, it's possibly the worst codex ever written, and I've played through Chaos Marines 4th and 6th edition.

Basically, you are looking at a single build. It's heavy venom spam with the possibility of a couple of formations from the Haemonculus covens book. Don't take any unit that costs over 150ish points. Anything over that will die to any kind of fire power directed at them. They are pure MSU, spam as much low costed/high fire power units as possible and avoid close combat at all costs, because even though about half of the codex is geared towards close combat. They are all absolutely fething terrible at it, except for the formation that allows you to take 5 Talos in a unit.

The wargear seems to make you go into CC but taking into account the Str and Toughness of most DE units...
It really makes you wander why :(

I love DE and I encourage people to start them. We don't need other tau, eldar or SM players, and if you like how DE look you should definitely start them.

About boxes, both the start collecting and the gangs of commorragh are good. The first one includes 3 reavers, 1 raider and 10 kabalites at a discount price, plus you also get the archon, which is useless but still free. I got two of those boxes

Gangs of commorragh is also a deal, as you get 6 reavers and 10 hellions plus the game itself. If you get 6 reavers alone you're goint to pay more, so yeah that box is a deal even if hellions are useless.

As said before DE work as a MSU army so you'll need quite a significant number of models. But most of their coolest stuff like talos or grotesques can be converted, letting you save money.

But don't think about DE as a shooty army with lances/haywire to crack vehicles and poisoned shots to kill the crew inside. And tau are not the worst hard counter for them, gladius SM and eldar are, you can definitely win against the fishes.

They work better as a super fast assault army. Grotesques in raiders and a lot of bikes are our best units, also talos are very good (especially in their formation) but they're slow and you need to play them carefully.

You should get into combat only reavers (tanks to their rending HoW), grotesques, talos and incubi. Incubi are good only against low T high-mid values armours units like necrons, SM or even eldar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Flanker wrote:
My DE matches tend to go two ways: I either mop the floor with my opponent or get shot off the board. Few games are in between, it seems (I could just have a bad memory!)
That being said, the popular strategy I use is Raider and Venom spam. Load up the transports with Kabalites or trueborn with special weapons to seize objectives while firing lots of shots thanks to splinter racks. The SC DE box is a good starter for this since it has warriors, a Raider, the Archon and Reaver jetbikes. Reavers are one of the better units and with cluster caltrops, they're good at CC as well. Take them in large squads.

Another popular build is form the supplement Haemonculus Covens, but i have 0 experience with that build.

Well try grotesques and talos, even without their formations, or small unites of bikes but in large numbers like 6 units of 3. These are extremely effective units.

Overdose wrote:
After doing several small armies my eyes have set to Dark Eldar.
I never realised that DE have one of the most delicate and sleek-looking miniature range in 40k till now.

Now, I heard that DE are ridiculously hard to play but that is not a real concern to me as I'm more into the gaming aspect rather than winning.

Even though they are classifide as hard, are they fun to play?

What would be a good start?
Is the Start Collecting box worth it?
Or should I go with the Gangs of Commoragh box?

I'm guessing I will need a lot of Reavers.

And also are DE high-model count?

The Incubi models are so damn fine looking so I do want them in my army...

Any tips/advice for starting Dark Eldar?

Thank you all!

I'm still of the opinion ravagers are kinda crap.

Venoms are good when they don't have troops in them and only because it's cost effective.

Raiders are best used for mostly melee troops or any close ranged ones.

If you have a shooting unit in a raider or you use ravagers put them into cover and give them night shields. At least that way they won't jink all the time and lose their shots (supposedly crew don't snap shoot when you jink anymore).

Incubi are ok but against high toughness armies you will find they may as well be giving a limp wristed slap to their enemies (maybe ghostkeels, wraith units for eldar, wraiths for necrons, mechanicus units in general).

Never take wyches or hellions. That's pretty much the go to advice. Mandrakes would also probably be ok if they weren't in an elite slot and competed against grotesques, trueborn and incubi which is rather sad.

Scourge are ok. Blasters are ok on them but probably better on trueborn if you have an open elite slot. Heat lance are good if they can get to the 9" sweet spot. I used to put an archon and a webway with them but that's a horrible idea for your HQ. Just remember if you do it and take an HQ slot on em just make it webway gate and as cheap an HQ as you can that can take a webway gate. Even then it's probably just cheaper to get a whole other scourge squad with heat lance than an HQ for pinpoint deep strike. I also use a squad of scourge with basic shardcarbines. They're about as cost effective as the venoms but have worse range but the 12" jump helps them get their shots off. Also they're relatively cheap and can screen your more valuable units if you don't need poison too much. I'd honestly suggest some people to give them a shot since they take up far fewer slots FOC's than a venom (provided you have to play Bound). If you have to hit an opponent at long range it sucks though i have had them get to where they need to be even with it. They can put out a stupid amount of shots at close range (30 poisoned shots for 10 bodies for 160 pts). Against space wolves, some necrons and admech you will love these guys.

Reavers and venoms are probably the bread and butter of the book with maybe some scourge or trueborn. Incubi are ok at their job. Grotesques can handle a lot of other things. The 5 talos per heavy support slot is probably what you use

If i had to say the dark eldar have a strength it's the ability to move super fast and to fight like 25% of the enemy's army with 100% of yours while only being in range or line of sight of about 25% of their army. This is how i can deal with necrons and probably how i'll deal with admech (only faced them with cawl who you just need to avoid fighting). Seriously make it your job to jump to the other half of the board if you don't get first turn. If you do get first turn put your slow stuff in the middle and then jump everything to one side. This actually has proven effective vs necrons (personal experience vs the same person) and probably admech.

The main issue i have that i can't seem to fix is fighting imperial guard and tau. Both will beat you in a ranged fight and generally have better range than you and both fail at close combat. For guard the issue is the tanks can best be killed with cluster caltrop reavers (they usually dig in with battle lines so that they get a 4+ or 3+ cover save on everything but the issue is all the artillery and the wyverns. Any artillery that can fire out of line of sight and only can't when you're in their minimum range which is where reavers can be lit up at by the enemy's other units and some of which avoid cover will be your enemy.

A moron must've given all our best melee units no access to grenades but sure enough we don't have them on those units. This means if we have to assault into cover and lose initiative doing so that we best use reavers with cluster caltrops to do it as they auto-hit and hit first. That of course only matters when you fight an opponent that would murder your units if they went first *cough* wulfen *cough*. Of course if you have to face things like wulfen just shoot them before they get there. It's the only way.

----------

I'll add a little more later but i have to run some errands.

Hang out on The Dark City a bit for good tactica. Reaver bikes w/ caltrops for the speed of capture and evil HoW smacking (and tank hunting) works well in MSU style. Venoms w/ kabolites is the backup dakka, with an absurd number of poison shots to dish out. Like mentioned before by others, speed and brutality is the name of the game. Fights seem to start out with you wrecking face, then you get pushed back hard in the middle, and either finish stronger (Power from Pain + your oncoming reserve) or it's over. That wave pattern is seen on tons of the batreps if you want to watch them (and, of those, Tabletop Tactics has hands down *the best* when it comes to DE fights).

I started a DE army because, honestly, I think they're the best looking models GW produces. Seriously - take a look at that sex in the sky that is the Ravenwing. I don't care if they suck, seeing those bastards show up just makes me grin. Maybe one day when 8th drops and whomever writes codecies gets their heads out of their asses will fix the brokeness that is DE (or, to the point, the OP that is other armies). I'd love to see Wyches return to being useable, and a hefty reduction of points cost of the fliers (voidraven is sooooo good looking, but really over prices for what she brings).

Overdose wrote:
After doing several small armies my eyes have set to Dark Eldar.
I never realised that DE have one of the most delicate and sleek-looking miniature range in 40k till now.

Now, I heard that DE are ridiculously hard to play but that is not a real concern to me as I'm more into the gaming aspect rather than winning.

Even though they are classifide as hard, are they fun to play?

What would be a good start?
Is the Start Collecting box worth it?
Or should I go with the Gangs of Commoragh box?

I'm guessing I will need a lot of Reavers.

And also are DE high-model count?

The Incubi models are so damn fine looking so I do want them in my army...

Any tips/advice for starting Dark Eldar?

Thank you all!

If you dont mind the acrimony, there is a lot of ground covered here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/718507.page

To answer your questions:

They are fun to play. Very. You can be everywhere on the board you want to be, and that on its own is fun. They have brutal melee units if you want to go that route (as i have) and the sheer joy of rolling that many dice, while not up to par with orks, certainly can be gratifying.

Reavers are not a necessary inclusion in any Dar kEldar army. They are useful. their armor is so light and Toughness merely decent. Their mobility is mimicked by Aethersails on Raiders, while their firepower is mimicked well also in other places (such as Ravagers). However... they are just so useful for forcing the enemy to be where you want them and to buy time. At this one thing i cannot say enough. i use zero in my list, but have used them a fair number of times and have found small units of them to be exceptional at ablating firepower and stopping otherwise annoyingly fast armies from getting the most out of it. that they can carry some decent firepower just adds to the allure. I don't think they are a must and to put it another way: it's not where i would START an army.

The number one thing i would recommend is getting your 9 Grotesques, two Raiders and a haemonculus. This would be the absolute first thing to get. The Grotesquerie Formation is absolutely great. Once that is done, then its time to see how you feel about the rest. that also will allow you to play with a giood starter sized force. That's closing in on 700-750 points and should be at the heart of or part of any Dark eldar force in my opinion. Its certainly not an option you want to be without which makes it a great FIRST purchase.

Side note: Incubi are cool. Only take them in small numbers. the leader gets Rampage and a cool weapon so no need for larger units of them.

Wow... The model which I didn't plan on getting were the Grotesques but if they are that important I may have to take another look around :(

Yes. The Grotesquerie Formation is without doubt where i would start. it is scary. With Urien, even better (though I often leave urien out in deference to a normal Haemonculous as a points consideration, he is actually extremely good for the Formation, because of their LD and his ability to "wind the clock forward" on Power From Pain).

Edit: to expand on that a little, I use them with Agonizers on the Abberation. they come STOCK with Rampage and when you're only taking 4-5 of them per unit... I mean...chances are good you will be rampaging. In addition they can make Disorganized charges (and should) to devastating effect because of Rampage. The Power from Pain chart in the Coven book (home to this Formation) and their special Grotesquerie roll is phenomenal. There isn't a bad result on the table, though you could argue Shred is soemwhat redundant against T4 or lower stuff.

A new wrinkle has also occurred. The Ynnari Formation. If you take your Dark Eldar in a Ynnari Formation you lose Power from Pain but you gain some advantages which I'm only now exploring but which are significant. Example: I won a game the other day against the IG/Militarum Tempestus + Vindicare. He took my entire low ld beastpack out with a Vindicare shot and a couple random shots because the guy with LD in the unit got sniped (smart move0 and they had to test for morale (barely). the result? 240 points off the board before it could move.

The Ynnari formation (for my army specifically) would have stopped me from having to even make the check. KEY for a BeastPack. That's a big deal. So for my particular list, the only unit that loses in the Ynnari scenario is essentially the incubi who are very advantaged by Power From Pain. i only have four of them though. An acceptable trade off perhaps?

One other note: you lose Obsec on the Kabalite Warriors. That actually IS a big deal (in my opinion) and a strong argument against taking them as Ynnari, so its worth mentioning. Plus a Vindicare assassin is a very specific thing and frankly it wouldnt have mattered had i gone first. they are my big scary punching bag anyways. Lol.

9 Grotesques to start seems like a lot of $$ for the same looking model...
Any good conversion ideas for them?

I think I might hold off DE till I decide on the Grotesques...

Many people look to Vargeists/crypt horrors for conversions coupled with extra bits from Talos and such.

It is unfortunate that they have a single model with one pose. This will probably be rectified if and when a new Dark Eldar release happens. Truthfully I haven't seen a single DE army since the new codex dropped. I think it pissed a lot of people off.

Incubi also are one of my favourite units in the game, they just don't work as they should in the lore IMO. They can harass units that aren't Melee specialists, but they don't stand up to actual combat units very well unfortunately.

Venoms and Reavers are actually the only units in the army that fall under the "good" category. Everything else in the army is either middling, or down right bad to the point where taking them will actually loose you games.

Wyches, Blood Brides, Hellions should be avoided at all costs, they contribute nothing to the game.

The part I hate most about this book is the fact that the most points efficient HQ is a single Lhamian taken as your Warlord for a measly 10 points. Placed in cover at the back of the board so you don't actually have to take any of the wretched HQ units. They completely gutted the Archon to the point of being unplayable. The only HQ that actually has some utility is the Haemonculus.

Whoever wrote this codex should be fired for incompetence.

Overdose wrote:
9 Grotesques to start seems like a lot of $$ for the same looking model...
Any good conversion ideas for them?

I think I might hold off DE till I decide on the Grotesques...

Mine are Crypt Horrors with Talos/Cronos bits stuck on. They look awesome!

As for other ideas, what is generally considered the absolute best Dark Eldar army you can make is reaver spam with lots of warriors in venoms.

There are, however, several other good options for Dark Eldar.
For our HQ selection, the only ones worthwhile are a court of the Archon at 10 points, because its so cheap, or a succubus with glaive, HWG, and armor of misery. The Succubus is a melee beast, but needs something to be meatshields for her. That thing is grotesques in case you were wondering.

Our elites is similarly limited in what is good.
Grotesques by themselves are pretty meh, but in a grotesquerie they get not only the buffed Covens PFP, but also super combat drugs. I run 2 units of 3 in raiders, haemy with one squad and Succubus in the other.
Trueborn with blasters in a venom are sometimes useful, but honestly, they are sub par compared to Scourges.

Our troops have only one option that matters. Warriors in venoms. How you loadout those warriors is a fun debate, with some people saying give them no upgrades, some sticking a single blaster, and some giving them a blaster, and a sylibrite with a HWG. All three are good options so long as you keep that loadout throughout your entire army and use it properly.

Our fast attack has some good units.
Reavers are amazing. Take them in units of 3 or 6, with a clustercaltrop and blaster for every 3, both on the same model, and take lots of these units. They are cheap, and shred most things in melee, and are extremely mobile.
Scourges are my personal favorite unit in the game, but sadly aren't as good as Reavers. They can bring lots of special weapons, and provide out best anti-tank. Either haywire blasters for reasonably long range reliable AT, or deepstrike them with heat lances to melt land raiders then die. I also like to run them with blasters, but those are overcosted, so I don't recommend that in a competitive game.

Our heavy support is rather limited in good options.
Ravagers provide a reasonably reliable anti-tank option, but if you're going to take them, take all lances, and several ravagers.
The pain engines aren't very good in the codex, but in Covens the Dark Artisan and Corpse Theif Claw make them great. So long as they don't run into grav they are almost unkillable, and will mulch through most units.

Overdose wrote:
9 Grotesques to start seems like a lot of $$ for the same looking model...
Any good conversion ideas for them?

I think I might hold off DE till I decide on the Grotesques...

Spawn make cool grotesque stand ins. Rat ogres could probably also be kitbashed. I have a spawn as one of my abberations


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the Voidraven bomber may cost a lot but it pushes damage out like a beast.

It seems they are better than many think ,especially in ITC format games. The open topped transports with a 3+ cover save are perfect for assaults.

Thanks for the encouragement guys-

But is it possible to have a DE army without Grotesques?

The models I planned to buy were:

Archon
Incubi
Warriors/Raider or Venom
Scourge
Reavers
Wracks
Talos
Maybe Mandrakes?

Can Wracks be substitutes for Grotesques?

There's a badass Talos formation, as well. They are MCs, so they are substantially tougher than nearly any vehicle.

If you want a tournament viable list, it mostly revolves around maximizing the amount of minimum Objective Secured Troops inside their obsec Transports (preferably Venoms with 2x Splinter Cannons). You will end up with around 14-26 highly mobile units to take objectives and contest them from your opponent. And yeah, shooting around 200 or more Poisoned shots per turn with decent range. As the HQ the most optimal choice is most likely a Lhamean inside a dual Splinter Cannon Venom.

Alternatively an Archon with a Webway Portal, more on that below.

A few minimum squads of Reavers can be handy against certain things (such as Warp Spiders).

Adding an Eldar CAD with a Jetbike Farseer, 2x Scatterbikes and a Skathach Wraithknight for good measure also bumps the army in power a bit. Wraithguard with D-Scythes or D-Cannons go well with an Archon who has a WWP.

Also the new Ynnari Reborn Warhost opens up some possibilities for the Dark Eldar. You basically trade Objective Secured for the ability to shoot people back when your stuff dies.

I was just looking through alternatives for Grotesques and it seems like with a bit of converting/kitbashing, these models might be nice alternatives (I haven't looked into non-GW models yet): [Dollars are AUS dollars GW prices]

1. Chaos Spawn (2 models for $55)

2. AoS Skaven Stormfiends (3 models for $99)
* A bit more armoured- will need to file down / remove Skaven marking on armour etc.
* Models seem to include lots of cable/wiring which fits the Grotesque theme

3. AoS Crypt Horrors (3 models for $79)
*** Does anyone know the size of these compared to regular DE Warriors? Are they bulkier?

4. AoS Skaven Rat Ogres (2 models for $60)
* Similar to Stormfiends but much more naked.

So these are the options I've thought out so far-
But the key thing for them to actually look a lot like Grotesques rather than just small conversions would be IMO cables, vials/needles and the face.

The easiest conversion that I just threw up on top of my head would be the Crypt Horrors, giving them Wracks / Talos heads and maybe adding more vials/cables then bones?

If anyone could post pictures / links of their converted Grotesques that would be great!

Overdose wrote:
Thanks for the encouragement guys-

But is it possible to have a DE army without Grotesques?

The models I planned to buy were:

Archon
Incubi
Warriors/Raider or Venom
Scourge
Reavers
Wracks
Talos
Maybe Mandrakes?

Can Wracks be substitutes for Grotesques?

There is a new secondary list called "Ynnari" that significantly improves the combat abilities of many of those units you listed. It essentially exchanges the current Power from Pain ability for something called "Strength from Death" (which in my opinion works towards the fluff of the dark eldar a lot better anyway). Kabalite Warriors are about the same and are about average in both lists - the occasional ability to get an extra shooting attack is about the same as whatever minimal effect you might get from Power from Pain's FNP rolls. What that does is allow you to take a free action, even when it's not your turn, when any unit friend or foe dies close to one of your non-vehicle units. While the Ynnari list does include all three eldar faction models, it does not require more than one faction like Castellans of the Imperium does. You can run it with purely Dark Eldar stuff.

This drastically improves Incubi, Reavers, and Scourges from what they are in the current DE codex (and reavers and scourges weere already among the best DE units). The only downside of the Ynnari is that they cannot include any ofthe haemonculus units, nor mandrakes - you would have to ally in a formation from the Haemonculus Covens supplement to use them. I use the Talos/Chronos/Haemonculus formation all the time with my Ynnari and it works really well.

Most importantly, IMO, playing Ynnari DE is way more fun than base DE. Base DE get a boring slight defensive buff and as such prefer to spam a few units, hang back, and shoot from long range while hoping they can shoot more than their opponents. The ynnari encourage you to take big risks, do tons of damage at once, and send your units shooting across the board to attack anything vulnerable. To me, it feels more like the dark eldar should feel.

the_scotsman wrote:

There is a new secondary list called "Ynnari" that significantly improves the combat abilities of many of those units you listed. It essentially exchanges the current Power from Pain ability for something called "Strength from Death" (which in my opinion works towards the fluff of the dark eldar a lot better anyway). Kabalite Warriors are about the same and are about average in both lists - the occasional ability to get an extra shooting attack is about the same as whatever minimal effect you might get from Power from Pain's FNP rolls. What that does is allow you to take a free action, even when it's not your turn, when any unit friend or foe dies close to one of your non-vehicle units. While the Ynnari list does include all three eldar faction models, it does not require more than one faction like Castellans of the Imperium does. You can run it with purely Dark Eldar stuff.

This drastically improves Incubi, Reavers, and Scourges from what they are in the current DE codex (and reavers and scourges weere already among the best DE units). The only downside of the Ynnari is that they cannot include any ofthe haemonculus units, nor mandrakes - you would have to ally in a formation from the Haemonculus Covens supplement to use them. I use the Talos/Chronos/Haemonculus formation all the time with my Ynnari and it works really well.

Most importantly, IMO, playing Ynnari DE is way more fun than base DE. Base DE get a boring slight defensive buff and as such prefer to spam a few units, hang back, and shoot from long range while hoping they can shoot more than their opponents. The ynnari encourage you to take big risks, do tons of damage at once, and send your units shooting across the board to attack anything vulnerable. To me, it feels more like the dark eldar should feel.

Just a question since a lot of people seem to be bringing up Ynnari-

Is the Ynnari list like a one-off special army-type just for the current Campaign going on?
Or will they continue to be 'legal' as time goes on (like tournies etc.)

Overdose wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

There is a new secondary list called "Ynnari" that significantly improves the combat abilities of many of those units you listed. It essentially exchanges the current Power from Pain ability for something called "Strength from Death" (which in my opinion works towards the fluff of the dark eldar a lot better anyway). Kabalite Warriors are about the same and are about average in both lists - the occasional ability to get an extra shooting attack is about the same as whatever minimal effect you might get from Power from Pain's FNP rolls. What that does is allow you to take a free action, even when it's not your turn, when any unit friend or foe dies close to one of your non-vehicle units. While the Ynnari list does include all three eldar faction models, it does not require more than one faction like Castellans of the Imperium does. You can run it with purely Dark Eldar stuff.

This drastically improves Incubi, Reavers, and Scourges from what they are in the current DE codex (and reavers and scourges weere already among the best DE units). The only downside of the Ynnari is that they cannot include any ofthe haemonculus units, nor mandrakes - you would have to ally in a formation from the Haemonculus Covens supplement to use them. I use the Talos/Chronos/Haemonculus formation all the time with my Ynnari and it works really well.

Most importantly, IMO, playing Ynnari DE is way more fun than base DE. Base DE get a boring slight defensive buff and as such prefer to spam a few units, hang back, and shoot from long range while hoping they can shoot more than their opponents. The ynnari encourage you to take big risks, do tons of damage at once, and send your units shooting across the board to attack anything vulnerable. To me, it feels more like the dark eldar should feel.

Just a question since a lot of people seem to be bringing up Ynnari-

Is the Ynnari list like a one-off special army-type just for the current Campaign going on?
Or will they continue to be 'legal' as time goes on (like tournies etc.)

It's a pretty simple detachment (literally the same as a CAD, but with different benefits) and I don't see them just discontinuing the triumvirate models, so I'd say we'll see Ynnari sticking around as long as 8th doesn't nuke everything and start from scratch with detachment rules. I find that pretty unlikely.

Both the start collecting and gangs of Commoragh are good buys to start out.

I would recommend visiting eBay and buying the snap fit rat ogres from the AoS starter set, or crypt fiend parts along with Talos parts for grotesques.

Additionally if you buy scourges you might need to visit eBay to buy weapons, as the scourge kit does come with all the weapon options for the units- but only one of each. Which makes it hard to have a squad with four of the same weapon.

Reavers are considered to be the best unit by many players, due to cluster caltrops.


If you have a friendly group to play with I would try some smaller games, like 1k to 1.5k points, proxy things and figure out what you like.

I converted my grotesques from fantasy ogres. A box of ogres has 6 bodies, enough for making the basic grotesquerie formation with 2x3 grots. I used spared masks and bitz from the talos/cronos box and added 50mm bases. Used some green stuff to make the necks and fit the talos/cronos masks. I got that box with a 25% cut price so basically 6 grots/ogres costs a little bit more than one original grotesque.

I don't use they everytime as I also rely on the corpsethief claw quite often but yeah, grotesques are amazing.

I also consider reavers an autoinclude and they always find a room in my DE lists but you need at least 15 bikes, 5 units of 3 reavers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Overdose wrote:


2. AoS Skaven Stormfiends (3 models for $99)
* A bit more armoured- will need to file down / remove Skaven marking on armour etc.
* Models seem to include lots of cable/wiring which fits the Grotesque theme

They're too big IMHO, I used stormfiends bodies to convert talos actually. 60mm bases for them.

Overdose wrote:
Thanks for the encouragement guys-

But is it possible to have a DE army without Grotesques?

The models I planned to buy were:

Archon
Incubi
Warriors/Raider or Venom
Scourge
Reavers
Wracks
Talos
Maybe Mandrakes?

Can Wracks be substitutes for Grotesques?

An Archon is okay but consider that the Succubus is really a very affordable combat monster if thats what you want from the HQ. If you want a utility HQ, the Haemonculous will be better. Archon is third o nthe list of preferables. Also keep in mind that (mind bogglingly) one single Lhamaen can be your HQ choice, so you can spend points elsewhere.

Incubi, as i said, are good. take them in units of 4 or 5 at most. their Klaivex really shines when outnumbered and they are a niche unit that you probably need at least one of in the army for AP 2 goodness against things that might otherwise tie up or eliminate your less fortunate units.

Warriors are good, in Venoms or in Raiders with splinter Racks. Ynarri steals objective Secured rule from them, so its a reeeeeeal tough decision there. I think Objective Secured is just so important.

Scourges are just awesome. Haywire Blasters are a thing and the Scourges are excellent for carrying them into battle. Big fan. Take 15, all with Haywire as much as possible if you prefer a shooty answer to things.

I already said my peace on Reavers.

Wracks aren't good. they WERE good when they could be troops choices. Now i would seriously queston why you dont just take the Grotesques instead,.

The Corpsethief Claw Formation is really good. the Extra Victory Points for killing stuff is awesome, and the 5 Talos that are required for it, while they cost you about 650 points fully kitted out, are definitely powerful and worthwhile inclusions. I have a battle report here if you'd like to check out the blog a little. it has the virtue of being a shorter one. http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2014/12/haemonculus-coven-vs-astra-militarum.html

Mandrakes are Line breaking units and they also are decent at another important duty IF you are going the shooty route: Infiltrating them so that the enemy cannot scout as far forward. as you know, you cannot make a scout move within 12" of an enemy model. So if you manage to hide the infiltrators somwhere midfield, it can really nerf enemy scout moves. Do not overload on these (I own 33 and love them). as they are a utility player like Ive described, at least at this point.


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Overdose wrote:
I was just looking through alternatives for Grotesques and it seems like with a bit of converting/kitbashing, these models might be nice alternatives (I haven't looked into non-GW models yet): [Dollars are AUS dollars GW prices]

1. Chaos Spawn (2 models for $55)

2. AoS Skaven Stormfiends (3 models for $99)
* A bit more armoured- will need to file down / remove Skaven marking on armour etc.
* Models seem to include lots of cable/wiring which fits the Grotesque theme

3. AoS Crypt Horrors (3 models for $79)
*** Does anyone know the size of these compared to regular DE Warriors? Are they bulkier?

4. AoS Skaven Rat Ogres (2 models for $60)
* Similar to Stormfiends but much more naked.

So these are the options I've thought out so far-
But the key thing for them to actually look a lot like Grotesques rather than just small conversions would be IMO cables, vials/needles and the face.

The easiest conversion that I just threw up on top of my head would be the Crypt Horrors, giving them Wracks / Talos heads and maybe adding more vials/cables then bones?

If anyone could post pictures / links of their converted Grotesques that would be great!

You can also mix them up. They are after all crazy haemonculous inventions so you could have some of all the aforementioned as your Grotesques. Visually pleasing I would think and a lot more fun to paint.

Overdose wrote:
Thanks for the encouragement guys-

But is it possible to have a DE army without Grotesques?

Yeah its entirely possible. Grotesques are fun and strong, but by no means the best thing in the codex

Can Wracks be substitutes for Grotesques?

Wracks sadly aren't that good, though they make a decent alpha strike unit in their formation in Covens.


Here's a batrep of an unconventional DE army doing well at a tournament if you're interested in seeing some of the things they can do.
http://www.thedarkcity.net/t12655-dark-eldar-versus-the-universe-at-the-atc-tournament