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Hi Guys

Just looking at Magnus and Rowboat next to each other i feel a bit sorry for Magnus.

He seems to need a heap of psykers to make him a good pick and still his powers can be denied, most things you want to shoot D powers at have a better way to stop them than a 6. Haha Im thinking Magnus vs Kharn. I am not saying Magnus is underpowered or over costed I think he is just right but looking at papa smurf, he is cheaper than his FW variant and would rek him, I understand there are differenced like him being an MC which i think is a bit dumb.

I feel like pre DP Magnus would have been weaker physically than Big G but I feel unless magnus flies around all day pewing things, G-man will destroy him, I feel the odds should be in Big blues favour but not this much.

The one rule that bugs me is the murder everything in close combat, so he can never be tarpitted. He is a jack of all trades and a master of them all except he doesnt walk very fast.

Just my feelings maybe Ive overlooked some of his big drawbacks let me know but i think he should have been at least the same price as the FW model

His big drawback is his brickface. Though, Magnus has nipplehorns. So, it's a draw.

Hahahaha Exalted, the nipple horns make bear hugs even more unpleasant haha

 Ubl1k wrote:
Hi Guys

Just looking at Magnus and Rowboat next to each other i feel a bit sorry for Magnus.

He seems to need a heap of psykers to make him a good pick and still his powers can be denied, most things you want to shoot D powers at have a better way to stop them than a 6. Haha Im thinking Magnus vs Kharn. I am not saying Magnus is underpowered or over costed I think he is just right but looking at papa smurf, he is cheaper than his FW variant and would rek him, I understand there are differenced like him being an MC which i think is a bit dumb.

I feel like pre DP Magnus would have been weaker physically than Big G but I feel unless magnus flies around all day pewing things, G-man will destroy him, I feel the odds should be in Big blues favour but not this much.

The one rule that bugs me is the murder everything in close combat, so he can never be tarpitted. He is a jack of all trades and a master of them all except he doesnt walk very fast.

Just my feelings maybe Ive overlooked some of his big drawbacks let me know but i think he should have been at least the same price as the FW model

Magnus will win against Roboutte nearly much every time. He doesn't have to get into combat. Guillimann has. So Magnus can just fly around lobbing D. Or he could cast himself into spell that makes Guillimann literally unable to hit him. Take that sword! I'm invincible(literally).

tneva82 wrote:

 Ubl1k wrote:
Hi Guys

Just looking at Magnus and Rowboat next to each other i feel a bit sorry for Magnus.

He seems to need a heap of psykers to make him a good pick and still his powers can be denied, most things you want to shoot D powers at have a better way to stop them than a 6. Haha Im thinking Magnus vs Kharn. I am not saying Magnus is underpowered or over costed I think he is just right but looking at papa smurf, he is cheaper than his FW variant and would rek him, I understand there are differenced like him being an MC which i think is a bit dumb.

I feel like pre DP Magnus would have been weaker physically than Big G but I feel unless magnus flies around all day pewing things, G-man will destroy him, I feel the odds should be in Big blues favour but not this much.

The one rule that bugs me is the murder everything in close combat, so he can never be tarpitted. He is a jack of all trades and a master of them all except he doesnt walk very fast.

Just my feelings maybe Ive overlooked some of his big drawbacks let me know but i think he should have been at least the same price as the FW model

Magnus will win against Roboutte nearly much every time. He doesn't have to get into combat. Guillimann has. So Magnus can just fly around lobbing D. Or he could cast himself into spell that makes Guillimann literally unable to hit him. Take that sword! I'm invincible(literally).

I understand he can just fly around but how does he cast a spell making him invincible. guilliman can shoot him down with his badass stormbolter haha

tneva82 wrote:

 Ubl1k wrote:
Hi Guys

Just looking at Magnus and Rowboat next to each other i feel a bit sorry for Magnus.

He seems to need a heap of psykers to make him a good pick and still his powers can be denied, most things you want to shoot D powers at have a better way to stop them than a 6. Haha Im thinking Magnus vs Kharn. I am not saying Magnus is underpowered or over costed I think he is just right but looking at papa smurf, he is cheaper than his FW variant and would rek him, I understand there are differenced like him being an MC which i think is a bit dumb.

I feel like pre DP Magnus would have been weaker physically than Big G but I feel unless magnus flies around all day pewing things, G-man will destroy him, I feel the odds should be in Big blues favour but not this much.

The one rule that bugs me is the murder everything in close combat, so he can never be tarpitted. He is a jack of all trades and a master of them all except he doesnt walk very fast.

Just my feelings maybe Ive overlooked some of his big drawbacks let me know but i think he should have been at least the same price as the FW model

Magnus will win against Roboutte nearly much every time. He doesn't have to get into combat. Guillimann has. So Magnus can just fly around lobbing D. Or he could cast himself into spell that makes Guillimann literally unable to hit him. Take that sword! I'm invincible(literally).

it's a little less cut and dried when you realize for the price of magnus you can take Gulliman and 2 full squads of sisters of silence.

 Ubl1k wrote:
I understand he can just fly around but how does he cast a spell making him invincible. guilliman can shoot him down with his badass stormbolter haha

That stormbolter ain't killing him even if you don't cast anything. But 6 to hit, your hit rolls suffer -1. You need to roll 7 to hit. Good luck with that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
it's a little less cut and dried when you realize for the price of magnus you can take Gulliman and 2 full squads of sisters of silence.

True that. How many people take SoS though? No psykers and whopedoo those are pretty useless points.

tneva82 wrote:

 Ubl1k wrote:
I understand he can just fly around but how does he cast a spell making him invincible. guilliman can shoot him down with his badass stormbolter haha

That stormbolter ain't killing him even if you don't cast anything. But 6 to hit, your hit rolls suffer -1. You need to roll 7 to hit. Good luck with that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
it's a little less cut and dried when you realize for the price of magnus you can take Gulliman and 2 full squads of sisters of silence.

True that. How many people take SoS though? No psykers and whopedoo those are pretty useless points.

Culexus assassin is cheaper and more effective than SoS though probably

Magnus is FMC, daddy boy has awful move 7.

Magnus is centrepeace (not really competitive one, but still) unit and army multiplier (mostly for demons), big G is slow beatstick, who will struggle to bring his points back.

Hey guys thanks im playing against a Girlyman tonight so ill see myself how good he is or isnt. Why does magnus have +1 to hit to hit rolls? clearly didnt know his rules as well as i thought?

Magnus strikes me as having the same problem anything related to the Thousand Son's have. What he does he's really good at, and he's got a gorgeous model, but he pays through so many teeth to be that cool that he's to mediocre to be unusable. Magnus is ludicrously expensive. At the point I could actually play him without crippling myself I could actually have a semi-working Thousand Sons army that's rerolling 1s to hit, rerolling save results of 1, and has so many psykers I'd dominate the psychic phase without him and not have to worry about random power rolls cause when you've got 10 psykers running around you're going to cover your bases for AP2, anti-horde, and doombolts with so many warp dice to throw around anyone short of Daemons and Eldar might as well not bother trying to deny it.

GW just seems to massively overvalue Thousand Sons in points, and it carries to Magnus who has great rules but pays so hard through the nose for them he's a mediocre pick.

Well, Magnus is met in third of top10 LVO armies.

Both Magnus and Gulliman are PRIMARCHS. They DEMAND that you put some work into getting good use out of them!

 koooaei wrote:
His big drawback is his brickface. Though, Magnus has nipplehorns. So, it's a draw.

The nipple horns are optional, sadly the brick face is not.

 n0t_u wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
His big drawback is his brickface. Though, Magnus has nipplehorns. So, it's a draw.

The nipple horns are optional, sadly the brick face is not.

Robby G comes with a helmet head option, so his brickface is optional as well.

Saying Magnus depends on Psykers is true enough, but also Guilliman does too, unless you can think of another way to move him around the board efficiently. He's super slow, and if you stay out of charge range, he's going to be just about as effective in terms of damage as a set of Scarab occult terminators, or a dakka predator, or something else people just don't care about.

Additionally, getting all of the command traits - am i missing something? Not the best thing in the world since most are restricted to within 12", and he can't join units.

And a monstrous creature with T6 and 6 wounds isn't totally unkillable. Even outside of destroyer weapons.

And Guilliman is very vulnerable to psychic powers. Yeah he denies on 5+ but that's not great when as a whole space marines don't generate enough warp dice to be competitive in the psychic phase with armies that build for psychic. Good luck denying Gaze of Magnus. You'd need a 15 dice pool to reliably deny it on Guilliman. Magnus would thump him very easily.

Pretty sure Smashfether could go toe to toe with Guilliman and win.

You should feel sorry for Magnus, because his legion sucks and that is a huge shame.

As for one vs one with Guilliman I would be very confident Magnus would just shoot him off the table with his two strength D, 18" range powers from the air.

The bad thing about using magnus is that the 1k sons are quite possibly the worst possible choice for the chaos space marines because good god are rubric marines awful.

What? Magnus is awesome.

He's a FMC, so he can generally avoid confrontations.

He has tons of powers and cannot peril when he casts, and he will cast his powers almost guaranteed.

He is fairly squishy if you can get a bead on him, or knock him out of the sky, since his saves aren't spectacular. But thats what balances him out. I've seen him annihilate entire armies. And I've seen him go down to 3 dakka flyrants.

tneva82 wrote:

 Ubl1k wrote:
I understand he can just fly around but how does he cast a spell making him invincible. guilliman can shoot him down with his badass stormbolter haha

That stormbolter ain't killing him even if you don't cast anything. But 6 to hit, your hit rolls suffer -1. You need to roll 7 to hit. Good luck with that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
it's a little less cut and dried when you realize for the price of magnus you can take Gulliman and 2 full squads of sisters of silence.

True that. How many people take SoS though? No psykers and whopedoo those are pretty useless points.

SoS with blades are a pretty cheap for what you get, think of it more as Str4 AP2 blades that cost 15 points, AND have cool anti psyker rules to go with it.

I personally prefer Girlyman's rules to Magnus': glorious challenges in cc that leave enemy units devistated by your combat prowess will always trump flying so you can't be shot and throwing stupid psychic powers at your opponant in my book, no matter which one is more competitive.

Since when did chaos players ever want shooty over stabby?

If you're playing magnus, and thousand sons, its because you wanted more psychic power-y stuff. Magnus does that perfectly.

The challenge with Magnus is, you either have an answer, or you don't.

Either he's going to fly around the table shooting D-lasers all up in your business, or you'll kill him with concentrated firepower.

I think he would have been better served with dramatically reduced combat prowess, and the power set featuring more maledictions and ways to act as a force multiplier.

They almost got it right with Guilliman but again, you find yourself with a unit that is lacking a few distinct areas. For instance, the command traits simply don't matter. Give him all of the traits from the Ultramarines warlord traits in rise of the primarch and i would take him every time, twice on Sunday.

tneva82 wrote:

 Ubl1k wrote:
Hi Guys

Just looking at Magnus and Rowboat next to each other i feel a bit sorry for Magnus.

He seems to need a heap of psykers to make him a good pick and still his powers can be denied, most things you want to shoot D powers at have a better way to stop them than a 6. Haha Im thinking Magnus vs Kharn. I am not saying Magnus is underpowered or over costed I think he is just right but looking at papa smurf, he is cheaper than his FW variant and would rek him, I understand there are differenced like him being an MC which i think is a bit dumb.

I feel like pre DP Magnus would have been weaker physically than Big G but I feel unless magnus flies around all day pewing things, G-man will destroy him, I feel the odds should be in Big blues favour but not this much.

The one rule that bugs me is the murder everything in close combat, so he can never be tarpitted. He is a jack of all trades and a master of them all except he doesnt walk very fast.

Just my feelings maybe Ive overlooked some of his big drawbacks let me know but i think he should have been at least the same price as the FW model

Magnus will win against Roboutte nearly much every time. He doesn't have to get into combat. Guillimann has. So Magnus can just fly around lobbing D. Or he could cast himself into spell that makes Guillimann literally unable to hit him. Take that sword! I'm invincible(literally).

He's also 650 points. Kill everyone but him and he's not so scary any more.

On the other hand, he does change the meta. Knights aren't as popular as they used to be.

 Marmatag wrote:

Pretty sure Smashfether could go toe to toe with Guilliman and win.

Smashfather would lose that fight. He doesn't get his FNP against S10 attacks, so his durability is limited to a 2+3++ - The same as Guilliman. Guillimam hits on 3s, rerolling 1s, has a chance for D strength hits, has more attacks, and has 6 wounds. Smashfather hits on 4s, can't get D, and effectively only has 3 wounds since he loses Eternal Warrior after losing his first two wounds.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Since when did chaos players ever want shooty over stabby?

Since 4th ed Iron Warriors, and Thousand Sons in general.

Magnus needs a lot of your army to support him. Guilliman supports a lot of your army. They do different things.

That stormbolter ain't killing him even if you don't cast anything. But 6 to hit, your hit rolls suffer -1. You need to roll 7 to hit. Good luck with that.

40k isn't AoS, that's not how 40k's rules work. I wish people would stop spouting this nonsense, even worse when it's not even the correct version of Magnus that you're talking about.

Silver144 wrote:Magnus is FMC, daddy boy has awful move 7.

Magnus is centrepeace (not really competitive one, but still) unit and army multiplier (mostly for demons), big G is slow beatstick, who will struggle to bring his points back.

I doubt that RG will struggle to make his points back at all since he's not that expensive in the first place and offers a huge amount of board control.

LordofHats wrote:Magnus strikes me as having the same problem anything related to the Thousand Son's have. What he does he's really good at, and he's got a gorgeous model, but he pays through so many teeth to be that cool that he's to mediocre to be unusable. Magnus is ludicrously expensive. At the point I could actually play him without crippling myself I could actually have a semi-working Thousand Sons army that's rerolling 1s to hit, rerolling save results of 1, and has so many psykers I'd dominate the psychic phase without him and not have to worry about random power rolls cause when you've got 10 psykers running around you're going to cover your bases for AP2, anti-horde, and doombolts with so many warp dice to throw around anyone short of Daemons and Eldar might as well not bother trying to deny it.

GW just seems to massively overvalue Thousand Sons in points, and it carries to Magnus who has great rules but pays so hard through the nose for them he's a mediocre pick.

What? Thousand Sons are terrible at what they do. A bog standard plasma squad will kill more marines that equivalent points in thousand sons will, and since they're forced to use the trash Tz table, they're not good psychers either, not to mention that rubricae are one of, if not the most, expesive squad per warp charge in the entire game. Even in a maxed out war cabal, it's still the HQ's that carry the army despite, not because of, taking the MoT.

koooaei wrote:Well, Magnus is met in third of top10 LVO armies.

For Daemon armies, or armies that are daemons in all but name. Magnus does nothing for Thousand Son armies (taking Magnus and 3 DP's isn't a TS army). Sadly, Magnus is a mana addict and his legion can't supply him with what he needs, so that's why he's forced to look elsewhere.

Marmatag wrote:Saying Magnus depends on Psykers is true enough, but also Guilliman does too, unless you can think of another way to move him around the board efficiently. He's super slow, and if you stay out of charge range, he's going to be just about as effective in terms of damage as a set of Scarab occult terminators, or a dakka predator, or something else people just don't care about.

Additionally, getting all of the command traits - am i missing something? Not the best thing in the world since most are restricted to within 12", and he can't join units.

And a monstrous creature with T6 and 6 wounds isn't totally unkillable. Even outside of destroyer weapons.

And Guilliman is very vulnerable to psychic powers. Yeah he denies on 5+ but that's not great when as a whole space marines don't generate enough warp dice to be competitive in the psychic phase with armies that build for psychic. Good luck denying Gaze of Magnus. You'd need a 15 dice pool to reliably deny it on Guilliman. Magnus would thump him very easily.

Pretty sure Smashfether could go toe to toe with Guilliman and win.

He moves 6+d6+1 with a reroll a turn, he's not thundercav or wulfen, but he's no mutilator either and the list of things that don't mind getting into combat with him is very, very short. You're missing that he's 350 points with incredible utility and one of the meanest set of combat stats this side of ... well, just about anything. As an MC with T6 and 6W, no, he wouldn't be unkillable. As an MC with T6, 6W, 2+/3++, FNP, EW and gets back up on a 4+, he's about the most durable thing that's not Cawl or a WK. He denies on 5's with a re-roll too. Good luck denying Gaze? Good luck casting gaze or having it achieve much. Unless you roll that 6, you're still only doing ~2W even if you get through the 3++ and gaze is WC5! Magnus isn't going to reliably manifest that under his own steam even if he does cast on 2's! Magnus will kill him if it was a contest between just them and had unlimited turns, but when Magnus is at a 300 point disadvantage and there's only 5-7 turns to get it done, Magnus is unlikely to drop RG outside of a lucky 6 and relying on 6's is never a great plan unless you've got rending and a billion attacks a turn.

XT-1984 wrote:You should feel sorry for Magnus, because his legion sucks and that is a huge shame.

As for one vs one with Guilliman I would be very confident Magnus would just shoot him off the table with his two strength D, 18" range powers from the air.

Again, 350 points vs 650 points and Magnus isn't casting both powers reliably since 1 of them is WC5 (only ~40% chance to cast on 5 dice, even casting on 2's! you need 7 dice to have a ~90% chance to cast) and the other is WC 3 (need 4 dice for a ~87% chance to cast) so to have any sort of reliability, you need 11 dice to get both powers off and Magnus only generates 5 (+d6). You'll get Prismatic Gaze off, sure, but rarely both, but gaze still has to hit, wound and, unless it rolled a 6, get though his 3++.

Grey Templar wrote:What? Magnus is awesome.

He's a FMC, so he can generally avoid confrontations.

He has tons of powers and cannot peril when he casts, and he will cast his powers almost guaranteed.

He is fairly squishy if you can get a bead on him, or knock him out of the sky, since his saves aren't spectacular. But thats what balances him out. I've seen him annihilate entire armies. And I've seen him go down to 3 dakka flyrants.

Magnus has tonnes of powers, but is realistically only ever going to cast ~6-7 of them because the other 8-9 of them are trash or incredibly situational. As for casting his powers guaranteed, casting on 3's with a re-roll is better than casting on 2's and given how many of Magnus' powers are expensive and how little WC he generates on his own, he needs an army to be his personal battery which makes him only as strong as the weakest link while RG is the exact opposite and covers for his armies weakness for ~ 1/2 the points.

mrhappyface wrote:I personally prefer Girlyman's rules to Magnus': glorious challenges in cc that leave enemy units devistated by your combat prowess will always trump flying so you can't be shot and throwing stupid psychic powers at your opponant in my book, no matter which one is more competitive.

Since when did chaos players ever want shooty over stabby?

Anyone who plays Thousand Sons? Anyone who has played in 6th or 7th?

Grey Templar wrote:If you're playing magnus, and thousand sons, its because you wanted more psychic power-y stuff. Magnus does that perfectly.

Not in a Thousand Sons army.

 Drasius wrote:

Anyone who plays Thousand Sons? Anyone who has played in 6th or 7th?

People don't want shooty over stabby, people need shooty because 6th and 7th made stabby awful in comparison to shooty. In an ideal world Chaos would be stabby backed up by some shooty units rather than shooty with some stabby units that might work if you support them with mass psychic buffs.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Drasius wrote:

Anyone who plays Thousand Sons? Anyone who has played in 6th or 7th?

People don't want shooty over stabby, people need shooty because 6th and 7th made stabby awful in comparison to shooty. In an ideal world Chaos would be stabby backed up by some shooty units rather than shooty with some stabby units that might work if you support them with mass psychic buffs.

I'm not sure that you can really make that generalisation for every CSM player on the planet friend. Thousand Sons have always been a shooty army that can occasionally defend itself in CC when everything works perfectly. If you chose to run yours differently, that's fine, but I think that you'll find that spending ~600 odd points on 20 marines in rhinos and another ~200+ on psycher HQ's will default you to shooty for most Sons armies, especially when many of their psy powers don't work so good when they're in CC.