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They are funding miniatures for their new rule set. Throwing a fit because they won't make figures for another company's game seems a bit silly.

ced1106 wrote:

 Barzam wrote:
Does anyone happen to know how Black Scorpion's figures scale up to the ones from Shadows of Brimstone, Malifaux, or Wild West Exodus? If these are comparable, I may need to back it. If nothing else, I need the old coot and his dog and the fat, drunk guy on the donkey.

I asked the creator if he was going to make a pledge level or whatever for the SoB audience, and he said NOPE, aside from backers being able to order figures individually. Pretty irritating that a creator does all this work, then decides to not make money - and therefore doesn't reach SG's -- by ignoring a possible audience. Here's his FB if you want to ask for support for these other games: https://www.facebook.com/Black-Scorpion-miniatures-43404548975/

Why would he design something to support another game, when he's trying to get his off the ground? Moreover, what kind of pledge would you even expect? You can already get individual figures if you want, and I dont think he can use the SOB name to advertise.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
Why would he design something to support another game, when he's trying to get his off the ground?

Money. I hear money is good.

You're suggesting that SoB and Tombstone are mutually exclusive. I say they're not. If he finds a way to attract SoB players to his KS, some of them might pick up his Tombstone game as well. The worst case is that he receives free advertising that leads him to miniatures sales, which is better than if SoB players didn't know of the campaign and bought nothing at all.

Or maybe they are concerned with pushing this product more than supporting another with the Kickstarter. The individual figs will be for sale at retail, after all.

Who knows. We've been talking about the KS on Lead Adventurers and BGG, and you can see for yourself the interest in these miniatures by SoB players.

LA: http://www.lead-adventure.de/index.php?topic=99057.30
BGG: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1754506/black-scorpion-old-west-miniatures-ks-starts-april

Let SoB players be interested. Still no reason for Black Scorpion to advertise for that game.

ced1106 wrote:
Who knows. We've been talking about the KS on Lead Adventurers and BGG, and you can see for yourself the interest in these miniatures by SoB players.

Why don't you pledge for the miniatures and consider the rulebook a nice bonus rather than campaigning for a 'Shadows of Brimstone' pledge level. I mean what the hell would it even contain that that just pledging for the game with some miniatures wouldn't?

Zethnar wrote:

ced1106 wrote:
Who knows. We've been talking about the KS on Lead Adventurers and BGG, and you can see for yourself the interest in these miniatures by SoB players.

Why don't you pledge for the miniatures and consider the rulebook a nice bonus rather than campaigning for a 'Shadows of Brimstone' pledge level. I mean what the hell would it even contain that that just pledging for the game with some miniatures wouldn't?

Think we solved that one right here. Pledge for the minis - get the rules as a bonus. Minis are universal. Rules could very well be good (I haven't read anything on them yet, or if they're a current system that's just being updated...).

Win win.

Me, I'm excited for the undead gang.

~iPaint

Zethnar wrote:
Why don't you pledge for the miniatures and consider the rulebook a nice bonus rather than campaigning for a 'Shadows of Brimstone' pledge level. I mean what the hell would it even contain that that just pledging for the game with some miniatures wouldn't?

As I said before, it's foot-in-the-door theory. You get the SoB backers to pledge for the SoB pledge. Then they see all the other mini's the campaign has to offer, and some of them will buy more stuff, both rules and miniatures. Particularly, if the SoB pledge does not entitle them to SG's.

Reaper did this with their Bones I campaign. They had a $15 level that gave backers 30+ miniatures, but did not give them SG's. When SG's were hit (including because of this $30 level), not all, but some, $30 pledgers pledged for higher levels.

If you don't get them seeing the KS, how much money will these SoB backers contribute to the campaign? Hint: Absolutely none.

ced1106 wrote:

Zethnar wrote:
Why don't you pledge for the miniatures and consider the rulebook a nice bonus rather than campaigning for a 'Shadows of Brimstone' pledge level. I mean what the hell would it even contain that that just pledging for the game with some miniatures wouldn't?

As I said before, it's foot-in-the-door theory. You get the SoB backers to pledge for the SoB pledge. Then they see all the other mini's the campaign has to offer, and some of them will buy more stuff, both rules and miniatures. Particularly, if the SoB pledge does not entitle them to SG's.

Reaper did this with their Bones I campaign. They had a $15 level that gave backers 30+ miniatures, but did not give them SG's. When SG's were hit (including because of this $30 level), not all, but some, $30 pledgers pledged for higher levels.

If you don't get them seeing the KS, how much money will these SoB backers contribute to the campaign? Hint: Absolutely none.

Pretty sure they couldnt call it a "Shadows of Brimstone" pledge, as FFP probably wouldnt like them using their name to sell a competing product. It launches next week, so not really enough time for them to secure the rights even if they were interested. Plus, as mentioned, SOB players can just buy figures ala carte or off the webstore if they are interested.

Oh, definitely agreed. Something generic like a "You're new around here" pledge pitched as a "sampling of hombres for boardgames and miniature games. Stretch Goals not included.". Not the first KS that would have a "one-click convenience" pledge.

ced1106 wrote:
Oh, definitely agreed. Something generic like a "You're new around here" pledge pitched as a "sampling of hombres for boardgames and miniature games. Stretch Goals not included.". Not the first KS that would have a "one-click convenience" pledge.

Which still would not do what you are claiming you want, because it is not specifically targeted at the SoB community. If a generic pledge level like that exists, the HORDES of SoB players still don't know about it, unless they know about the KS over all. And if they do know about the KS...

I suspect you WILL see a smaller pledge level and/or access to just buying the sets you want.

What folks seem to think is silly is your insistence Black Scorpion cater directly to another game/tailor pledges for another game system, because, well, it IS silly to expect them to do so.

Err, yeah... Why would Black Scorpion promote another companies game in their own Kickstarter for their own game? Doesn't really make business sense.

Anywho... They previewed the undead faction - added to OP. Not my cup of tea, but to each their own....

30th March: Tombstone Kickstarter preview 6 of 7: Undead.

Those undead look pretty sweet. I really dig 'em

 CptJake wrote:
If a generic pledge level like that exists, the HORDES of SoB players still don't know about it, unless they know about the KS over all..

I hear there are things called "forums" where you can tell other members about these things called "Kickstarter projects" run by "creators".

BGG: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1754506/black-scorpion-old-west-miniatures-ks-starts-april
Lead Adventurers: http://www.lead-adventure.de/index.php?topic=99057.30

Click on those yellow things and see what others think about the miniatures.

Anywho -- anyone going to get all 110+ miniatures? How are you guys deciding what to do with your miniaures budget?

So, you're saying game fans can spread the word and now you can stop insisting BS create a pledge specific to another game, and advertise specifically for that other game?

Good. Glad you're coming around.

You can think whatever you want and the creator can leave on the table as much money as he wants. I'll keep looking at this KS as one which could have made more money than it will.

And, if you want, you can pretend there's no room on the game shelf for both games. Other than the SoB heroes being old west, there's not much the games have in common. Shadows is a coop game. Tombstone is player vs. player. Shadows is a western-themed dungeoncrawler. Tombstone is a miniatures skirmish game. While both have you fighting undead, Shadow's undead are minor monsters to the more Cthulhu-like major ones, and the game controls the monsters, not the players. Tombstone has undead as a player-controlled faction.

Would you get this uppity if I was going to use these miniatures for a Deadlands RPG??

ced1106 wrote:
You can think whatever you want and the creator can leave on the table as much money as he wants. I'll keep looking at this KS as one which could have made more money than it will.

And, if you want, you can pretend there's no room on the game shelf for both games. Other than the SoB heroes being old west, there's not much the games have in common. Shadows is a coop game. Tombstone is player vs. player. Shadows is a western-themed dungeoncrawler. Tombstone is a miniatures skirmish game. While both have you fighting undead, Shadow's undead are minor monsters to the more Cthulhu-like major ones, and the game controls the monsters, not the players. Tombstone has undead as a player-controlled faction.

Would you get this uppity if I was going to use these miniatures for a Deadlands RPG??

I think it's just general confusion what you expect, other than an "ala carte" pledge, which they are almost certainly going to have. Sell the figures cheaper with no cards? For like, what, 3 cents cheaper each?

ced1106 wrote:
You can think whatever you want and the creator can leave on the table as much money as he wants. I'll keep looking at this KS as one which could have made more money than it will.

And, if you want, you can pretend there's no room on the game shelf for both games. Other than the SoB heroes being old west, there's not much the games have in common. Shadows is a coop game. Tombstone is player vs. player. Shadows is a western-themed dungeoncrawler. Tombstone is a miniatures skirmish game. While both have you fighting undead, Shadow's undead are minor monsters to the more Cthulhu-like major ones, and the game controls the monsters, not the players. Tombstone has undead as a player-controlled faction.

Would you get this uppity if I was going to use these miniatures for a Deadlands RPG??

Not me personally, no, but that's not changing the argument of asking a project creator to cater their new project specifically for something that has nothing to do with their new project....or is that something companies should be doing de facto now?

Regardless of what you end up using the miniatures for, I'd consider it poor taste to ask a company specifically to change their Kickstarter campaign (for their own new game, mind you) to better fit in with some other company's game.

Also, why is there an assumption that Black Scorpion isn't going to make money on this because it doesn't cater to Shadows of Brimstone fans? Have they already finished the campaign? Do we know pledge structures yet? Seems all a bit premature doom and gloom.

Just my $0.02 though.

~iPaint

I didn't say that I was "asking a project creator to cater their new project specifically for something that has nothing to do with their new project".

I see that this project has old west figures. If they have old west figures that can open their project to a new audience, they should take advantage of this.

I also didn't say anything about selling the figures with or without cards.

KS is not a store, and I think has opportunities to advertise that conventionally have not been done. Assuming that they want to little work for maximum funding.

Looks cool! I like the Lawmen and Undead in particular. Wife is a fan of the Natives. I'll be checking it out!

Undead might be cool to use as zombivores in zombicide.

Undead would work as harrowed for Deadlands RPG, but please don't tell anyone or else you'll regret it like I do.

I need to see these undead painted, maybe they'll catch my interest, but as it stands I may be in for all factions previewed thus far with the exception of them... I'm hoping they'll have some painted examples on display at Salute later this month. (I do like their undead pirates though linky 1 linky 2 linky 3)

I'm sure there's nothing stopping Black Scorpion or anyone who's a fan of theirs advertising this Kickstarter in places where players of Shadows of Brimstone will see them. Or where players of .45 Adventures or any other Old West game will see them. I'm just not sure how having a pledge level specifically named "Shadows of Brimstone" will help that? Does Kickstarter's search engine look at pledge names? I mean, whatever it's called, someone would still need to go looking for it, or bring it to people's attention, so a pledge that allows you to order whatever minis you want is the solution you're asking for, as far as I can see. He didn't say he didn't want people to talk about this where SoB players may gather.

As for getting annoyed, why? It's not your business, so why do you think you should have anything to do with how it's run? Money isn't, after all, everything. The biggest delays and failures I've seen on Kickstarter have been ones where the final total was massively over the initial goal, so perhaps he wants to keep things under control.

It is possible to end a campaign prematurely if it hits its goal early. Not an option I've seen used by games campaigns often, but I have seen it, in the odd case where the campaign was only to fund a print run of a certain size.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Barzam wrote:
Does anyone happen to know how Black Scorpion's figures scale up to the ones from Shadows of Brimstone, Malifaux, or Wild West Exodus? If these are comparable, I may need to back it. If nothing else, I need the old coot and his dog and the fat, drunk guy on the donkey.

The painted models are metal models from Black Scorpion. The unpainted models are metal Malifaux models - a pair of Performers from the original Colette du Bois box.

Worth mentioning that the new Malifaux plastics are generally taller/lankier than the original metals. The stocky and more wide legged stance of the Black Scorpion models should still work, just be be a bit different aesthetically.

7th and last faction up...

She looks good

I have their Pirate range in metals, from a few years back. Excellent figures. I am going to get a load of these for the SOB drought that is out there. I'll probably get them before I get more SOB from the SOB's.

What a excellent set of figures. Standard top notch range of figures from a great company!

Back them, you won't be disappointed.

2nd April: Tombstone Kickstarter preview page now live!

We've now put up the preview page for the Kickstarter, it will launch on April 5th approx 7pm UK time. You'll see all the details and previews of the book here:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/69613072/1000057089?token=c133e80e

Also on our facebook page you'll see previews, share the video for a chance to win all the models and book!!

https://www.facebook.com/Black-Scorpion-miniatures-43404548975/

A preview of the cover:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's the pledges from the KS preview page to...

Pledge £5 or more

mix and match

For a selection of different miniatures/packs calculate the total and pledge above. You can tell us exactly what you'd like when we send out the pledge survey. Order over £50 and receive the PDF rulebook free. Shipping added on checkout/campaign end.

ESTIMATED DELIVERY
Dec 2017
SHIPS TO
Anywhere in the world

Use this if you're getting a mix of different packs from different factions. Just add up the total and enter that amount (shipping is added at checkout/end of campaign) E.g If you want a Native leader, Mexican deputy and the printed book = £35

Pledge £15 or more

PDF Rulebook.

PDF only version of the rulebook, select language with the pledge survey when the campaign ends. Select this option only when buying the PDF ALONE (as it has no postage). Available in English, Spanish, French, German and Italian.

ESTIMATED DELIVERY
Dec 2017

ONLY use this option for the PDF book on its own! As it has no shipping cost. The PDF is also added free to a number of other pledge options

Pledge £25 or more

Rulebook (printed English)

Printed rulebook (only available in English, select pdf version for translated versions). Also entitles you to a free PDF rulebook in any language. Shipping added on checkout/campaign end.

ESTIMATED DELIVERY
Dec 2017
SHIPS TO
Anywhere in the world

For the printed book in English. You can increase the pledge amount to add miniatures or add £25 to another pledge option to add the book. (shipping is added at checkout/end of campaign)

Pledge £45 or more

Complete Faction

One complete faction of your choice (leader, mounted leader, deputy and 3x four model packs= 15 models total). To add the printed book or extra packs simply increase the pledge amount accordingly and let us know in the survey once the campaign ends. Entitles you to a free copy of the PDF rulebook. Shipping added on checkout/campaign end.

ESTIMATED DELIVERY
Dec 2017
SHIPS TO
Anywhere in the world

Use this for any complete faction. (equals: leader, mounted leader, deputy, and 3x four model packs). Yes you can choose from different factions as long as the make up is as above (as this option offers a small saving). Increase your pledge as needed to add more packs or the book etc.. E.g for 2 factions and the book enter £115 (Shipping added at checkout/end of campaign)

Pledge £110 or more

2 Faction + Book combo.

2 complete factions plus the printed book offer (english only). Also qualifies for the free miniature over £100 offer. Shipping added at checkout/campaign end. Entitles you to a free copy of the PDF rulebook. Increase your pledge to add more packs or extras.

ESTIMATED DELIVERY
Dec 2017
SHIPS TO
Anywhere in the world

Entitles you to 2 x complete factions plus the printed rulebook. Also means you qualify for the free miniature for spending over £100 and free PDF rules offers

Pledge £250 or more

Tombstone town (early bird)

All 7 complete factions! 105 models... Free vulture miniature plus FREE SHIPPING WORLDWIDE. To add the printed book or extra models increase the pledge amount accordingly and tell us what you want on the survey once the campaign ends. Entitles you to a free copy of the PDF rulebook.

ESTIMATED DELIVERY
Dec 2017
SHIPS TO
Anywhere in the world
(Limited backers)

Pledge £285 or more

Tombstone town.

All 7 complete factions! 105 models... Free vulture miniature plus FREE SHIPPING WORLDWIDE. To add the printed book or extra models increase the pledge amount accordingly and tell us what you want on the survey once the campaign ends. Also qualifies for the free miniature over £100 offer. Entitles you to a free copy of the PDF rulebook

ESTIMATED DELIVERY
Dec 2017
SHIPS TO
Anywhere in the world

It's probably best to give in and accept you want this option from the start. You get all 105 models across the 7 factions shown above! Offering a significant saving. You also get a free vulture miniature only available with this pledge and a free miniature of your choice for spending over £100 (see below)... and FREE SHIPPING WORLDWIDE! increase the pledge amount to add the book or extra packs or add ons. (Free shipping).

SHIPPING COSTS:

We try to keep things simple so shipping has two categories and flat rates regardless, meaning you'll know exactly what your shipping costs are!

UK: £6.00

EU/ROW: £10.00

Also note the highest pledge goes post free worldwide!

We are shipping from the United Kingdom. Therefor this project is EU friendly.

Delivery schedule.

We've put December 2017 as the delivery date, in truth we hope to start shipping the first orders within a couple of months. If the project is very successful we've given this as a buffer to get everything out. Obviously once the campaign is over we will have a more accurate idea of this