Chaos is becoming a joke

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**BrianDavion**

Rippy wrote:
If Chaos don't feel like a threat at this very time, then unfortunately it is your own twisted perception.

A massive part of the galaxy just got swallowed by the warp.

Plus Chaos play the long game, everyone that dies adds another soul to the chaos gods, every emotion adds to their power.

Things are very dire for the imperium, especially from the hands of Chaos. I suggest that you attempt to re-align your perception of the current state of affairs, and actually look at what Abaddon is.

Is he a threat? Yes
Does he keep the chaos forces a lot more united than they could be? Hell yes
Did he successfully break the warp in to real space? Yes, over 13 black crusades.

The writers somewhat were writing themselves in to a hole, but have a look at the current big picture.

agreed. overall I think GW's done a pretty good job of redeeming chaos. certainly the best job they could without resorting to the tired cliche trick of having Abbaddon replaced by some new leader whom we're constantly TOLD is a military genuins, but whose victories mostly come from everyone fighting him suddenly taking mass doses of "stupid pills"

**Dakka Wolf**

Mr Morden wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
The big difference between Sauron and Chaos in 40k is pretty damn huge.
The second difference is that Sauron was only defeated once (not including his final defeat of course, or before he became the Big Bad), and only through the utmost effort of the good guys. Their victory was in fact a Pyrrhic victory, since they failed to defeat Sauron completely and were so weakened they would never recover, leaving them unable to defeat Sauron the second time. Even in defeat, Sauron's amazing power and extremely high threat level is obvious. This is how the Imperium's victories against Chaos should have worked, too. Instead however Abbadon has been defeated more times than you can count on two hands, always coming back with yet another silly plot and angrily shouting "I'll get you next time!" when said plot inevitably gets foiled. In short, Abbadon behaves like the villain in a kid's cartoon show, having a new plot every episode, getting defeated and being back next episode with yet another plot without the status quo of the cartoon setting ever changing.

Actually Sauron was defeated multiple times from what I recall.

He was overpowerd by Luthien and Huan and fled
He was part of the great defeat of Morgoth and had to flee into the depths of the earth iirc to avoid the wrath of the Valar
The Numenorians invaded with a vast force and he quickly surrendered as he could not fight them - he then later managed to corrupt them but he was militarily defeated. His attempt to get them to invade the West succeeds but results in everyone dying and his "fair" form being destroyed.
He was defeated by the last Alliance and his physical form destroyed again.
He arose as the Necromancer and was defeated by the White Council.

However I would agree that Chaos is often used as whipping boy, but then the Space Wolves have become increasingly silly - with plot shields 10 miles thick.

Even with their Wulfen boosting the Space Wolves are down from a couple of hundred in each of twelve chapters, 3500 or so to about a thousand or less, half of which are truly insane, they've lost three Wolf Lords and an entire chapter, had major numbers taken from their only recruitment planet by allies, who knows how many they actually lost to Daemons before the Grey Knights "cleansed" the planet and all the Dreadnoughts who were in the Fang during Warzone Fenris are half melted and down for the count, I'd love to use a politer turn of phrase but - plot shield my arse.

**BrianDavion**

Dakka Wolf wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
The big difference between Sauron and Chaos in 40k is pretty damn huge.
The second difference is that Sauron was only defeated once (not including his final defeat of course, or before he became the Big Bad), and only through the utmost effort of the good guys. Their victory was in fact a Pyrrhic victory, since they failed to defeat Sauron completely and were so weakened they would never recover, leaving them unable to defeat Sauron the second time. Even in defeat, Sauron's amazing power and extremely high threat level is obvious. This is how the Imperium's victories against Chaos should have worked, too. Instead however Abbadon has been defeated more times than you can count on two hands, always coming back with yet another silly plot and angrily shouting "I'll get you next time!" when said plot inevitably gets foiled. In short, Abbadon behaves like the villain in a kid's cartoon show, having a new plot every episode, getting defeated and being back next episode with yet another plot without the status quo of the cartoon setting ever changing.

Actually Sauron was defeated multiple times from what I recall.

He was overpowerd by Luthien and Huan and fled
He was part of the great defeat of Morgoth and had to flee into the depths of the earth iirc to avoid the wrath of the Valar
The Numenorians invaded with a vast force and he quickly surrendered as he could not fight them - he then later managed to corrupt them but he was militarily defeated. His attempt to get them to invade the West succeeds but results in everyone dying and his "fair" form being destroyed.
He was defeated by the last Alliance and his physical form destroyed again.
He arose as the Necromancer and was defeated by the White Council.

However I would agree that Chaos is often used as whipping boy, but then the Space Wolves have become increasingly silly - with plot shields 10 miles thick.

Even with their Wulfen boosting the Space Wolves are down from a couple of hundred in each of twelve chapters, 3500 or so to about a thousand or less, half of which are truly insane, they've lost three Wolf Lords and an entire chapter, had major numbers taken from their only recruitment planet by allies, who knows how many they actually lost to Daemons before the Grey Knights "cleansed" the planet and all the Dreadnoughts who were in the Fang during Warzone Fenris are half melted and down for the count, I'd love to use a politer turn of phrase but - plot shield my arse.

in fairness the space wolves do have a bit of plot protection in that if they weren't a first founding chapter I'd be worried that they may be dead. but yeah they've suffered heavy losses as the great company that was on Cadia was also wiped out to a man. the space wolves are in a bad place right now and I hope when they next get looked at GW addresses this and shows it, and doesn't just ignore it. but I think they will, with Russ rumored to come out later this year, my guess is GW wants the space wolves to be at an all time low, when Russ returns

**Dakka Wolf**

Hopefully, the fluff for the past five editions has claimed Russ will return for the Wolf Time/End Times, hopefully the writer will aknowledge the Wolves have their backs against the wall.

**BrianDavion**

Dakka Wolf wrote:
Hopefully, the fluff for the past five editions has claimed Russ will return for the Wolf Time/End Times, hopefully the writer will aknowledge the Wolves have their backs against the wall.

granted that fluff I always saw as being more a religious belief of the space wolves then anything, but yeah definatly be good to see some aknowledgement that the wolves are in a BAD state right now. I'd be dissappointed if the space wolf codex in 8th mostly just ignores the events and presents the wolves as being a powerful vital chapter. the Wolves are in a bad place right now, but a cornered wolf is at it's most dangerous

**Dakka Wolf**

BrianDavion wrote:
Dakka Wolf wrote:
Hopefully, the fluff for the past five editions has claimed Russ will return for the Wolf Time/End Times, hopefully the writer will aknowledge the Wolves have their backs against the wall.

granted that fluff I always saw as being more a religious belief of the space wolves then anything, but yeah definatly be good to see some aknowledgement that the wolves are in a BAD state right now. I'd be dissappointed if the space wolf codex in 8th mostly just ignores the events and presents the wolves as being a powerful vital chapter. the Wolves are in a bad place right now, but a cornered wolf is at it's most dangerous

It's expressions like that one that make me fear a Wulfen MC Russ...

**BrianDavion**

Dakka Wolf wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Dakka Wolf wrote:
Hopefully, the fluff for the past five editions has claimed Russ will return for the Wolf Time/End Times, hopefully the writer will aknowledge the Wolves have their backs against the wall.

granted that fluff I always saw as being more a religious belief of the space wolves then anything, but yeah definatly be good to see some aknowledgement that the wolves are in a BAD state right now. I'd be dissappointed if the space wolf codex in 8th mostly just ignores the events and presents the wolves as being a powerful vital chapter. the Wolves are in a bad place right now, but a cornered wolf is at it's most dangerous

It's expressions like that one that make me fear a Wulfen MC Russ...

a Wulven Russ might be moderatly intreasting, however I think it'd be a lost oppertunity. assuming the order rumored is true there is gonna be a time when the only two primarchs active will be Gulliman and Russ, and I think it'd be a shame for them not to be able to interact as brothers (I mean, it's pratically a buddy copy movie there. you have the straight as an arrow studious gulliman trying to study, while his brother the druken college frat boy is trying to drag him out to the big party etc!

**Dakka Wolf**

A Wulfen MC already exists.
Bran Redmaw.
So here's hoping for Frat Boy Russ.