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Some new stuff here, much of it may be specific to small army tactics (like running out of ammo, hiding), but some of it seems like a herald of 8th - weapon and armor profiles in particular.

It seems like a mix of 40k and AoS, with rending instead of AP.

Interestingly, seems like terminator armor is back to a 3+ save, but saves on 2D6. I hear 2nd was like that.

I'm curious if all 2+ saves will be like that (riptides, dreadknights), or if it's a imperial-terminator thing only.

Because I know it's too much to hope for mega armor to work like that.

This is already posted in the relevant thread...

Is it? I looked, but didn't see anything new. Which thread is it?

This one; https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/720498.page

Thanks. I have trouble finding news when it's buried in ongoing threads like that.

Moving this to 40k Discussion - topic seems broader than just previewing the rules of Necrom ... ahem, er, Shadow War.

It has its own ruleset. I wouldn't take it as a sign of anything.
Also I would rather not have this be a testing ground for 8th which would deal with much larger games where lessons drawn from here don't really apply.

Of course it could be foreshadowing some of the 8th mechanics. It could also be foreshadowing nothing since it's an entirely different game. There's no reason to speculate on it without anything beyond pure speculation that there could be crossover.

Ripper Guns are certainly better in it that's for sure.

But I don't believe it's going to be a big thing given that basic Shoota's are getting sustained fire.

Moving from a 2+ save to 2xd6 on 3+ would be so pointless. You'd gain roughly 5% expected survivability for double the rolling, and you'd have to roll each terminator individually.

That means 10 wounds would be 10 distinct instances of rolling, compared to roughly 1.

I cannot imagine this is what they'd do to buff terminators, it's so minor and creates ridiculous overhead.

 Marmatag wrote:
Moving from a 2+ save to 2xd6 on 3+ would be so pointless. You'd gain roughly 5% expected survivability for double the rolling, and you'd have to roll each terminator individually.

That means 10 wounds would be 10 distinct instances of rolling, compared to roughly 1.

I cannot imagine this is what they'd do to buff terminators, it's so minor and creates ridiculous overhead.

Because with the Armor Save Modifiers the Terminator can make saves it presently cant in standard 40k. Like you can make saves vs Meltaguns and Thunder Hammers with a 3+ on 2d6 when those weapons have a -5 Modifier.

So you'd have an 8+ armor save, which you can make on 2d6.

I really hope not. Making saves on 2d6 will REALLY slow the game down.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Moving from a 2+ save to 2xd6 on 3+ would be so pointless. You'd gain roughly 5% expected survivability for double the rolling, and you'd have to roll each terminator individually.

That means 10 wounds would be 10 distinct instances of rolling, compared to roughly 1.

I cannot imagine this is what they'd do to buff terminators, it's so minor and creates ridiculous overhead.

Because with the Armor Save Modifiers the Terminator can make saves it presently cant in standard 40k. Like you can make saves vs Meltaguns and Thunder Hammers with a 3+ on 2d6 when those weapons have a -5 Modifier.

So you'd have an 8+ armor save, which you can make on 2d6.

Though, and this is all still speculation, but the modifier system also seems to take weapon strength into account. So, you've got the meltagun negative modifier, and the modifier from the strength of the weapon. If they combine, it could easily rend terminator, and all other armor, into near-uselessness.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Moving from a 2+ save to 2xd6 on 3+ would be so pointless. You'd gain roughly 5% expected survivability for double the rolling, and you'd have to roll each terminator individually.

That means 10 wounds would be 10 distinct instances of rolling, compared to roughly 1.

I cannot imagine this is what they'd do to buff terminators, it's so minor and creates ridiculous overhead.

Because with the Armor Save Modifiers the Terminator can make saves it presently cant in standard 40k. Like you can make saves vs Meltaguns and Thunder Hammers with a 3+ on 2d6 when those weapons have a -5 Modifier.

So you'd have an 8+ armor save, which you can make on 2d6.

Though, and this is all still speculation, but the modifier system also seems to take weapon strength into account. So, you've got the meltagun negative modifier, and the modifier from the strength of the weapon. If they combine, it could easily rend terminator, and all other armor, into near-uselessness.

If it has a built in Armor Save Modifier it doesnt gain the rend from weapon strength, from what people have been saying.

If it doenst have a built in Modifier its uses the Strength.

So the Melta would only be -5 not -10.

...Guys...Shadow War: Armageddon is almost unaltered 2e/Necromunda rules.

It isn't foreshadowing new rules, it's flashing back five editions.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
...Guys...Shadow War: Armageddon is almost unaltered 2e/Necromunda rules.

It isn't foreshadowing new rules, it's flashing back five editions.

This. We know armor save modifiers are likely to reappear, but it doesn't follow that it will look like this. This is a skirmish ruleset, so things that add crunch but slow down the game are acceptable due to the low model count.

I expect 8th edition to handle terminators and save modifiers the same way it would in AoS: by giving TacDread armor a special rule to ignore a certain amount of rending value.

Rend is based on Str which we know is a train wreck from second, there is no way they would make that mistake again after AoS which is hands down a better system. Like formerly wu says I expect terminators to be able to ignore a certain amount of rend, I also expect that rend values on weapons to break down into five or so groups:

Rend 0: Las guns, sluggas, basically crappy weapons.
Rend -1 : Bolters, Guass Flayers, pulse rifles shuriken weapons, basically guns of the line
Rend -2: Heavy bolters, autocannons, Krak missles, hotshot las guns
Rend -3: Plasma weapons, las cannons, maybe meltas
Mortal wounds: Current D weapons, and I expect melta to make it into this category, giving most factions access to mortal wounds. Mortal wounds won't allow armor saves at all.

Given the above, Terminators probably ignore at least 1 point of rend, with storm shield adding another point to be ignored. I'm hoping that's how shields of various stripes work, they reduce the rend of incoming attacks by one or two rend. Invuls would go back to being 5+ and exceedingly rare, things like iron halos, phase shifters, kustom forcefields, etc.

Well as this game is based on Necromunda which was based on 2nd Ed 40k (which had 2d6 termi save) I wouldn't bank on Termi armour being 2d6 save in 8th ed

For what it counts for, I still think the 8th ed. rumors are a joke.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Moving from a 2+ save to 2xd6 on 3+ would be so pointless. You'd gain roughly 5% expected survivability for double the rolling, and you'd have to roll each terminator individually.

That means 10 wounds would be 10 distinct instances of rolling, compared to roughly 1.

I cannot imagine this is what they'd do to buff terminators, it's so minor and creates ridiculous overhead.

Because with the Armor Save Modifiers the Terminator can make saves it presently cant in standard 40k. Like you can make saves vs Meltaguns and Thunder Hammers with a 3+ on 2d6 when those weapons have a -5 Modifier.

So you'd have an 8+ armor save, which you can make on 2d6.

Which is only slightly better than a 5+ invuln, or slightly worse than a 4+ invuln. Meaning you add an insane amount of extra rolling for an almost imperceptible change. Test it: roll 20 dice, and count up your fails. Now, roll 2 dice at a time, 20 times. Compare how long it takes.

 kingbobbito wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Moving from a 2+ save to 2xd6 on 3+ would be so pointless. You'd gain roughly 5% expected survivability for double the rolling, and you'd have to roll each terminator individually.

That means 10 wounds would be 10 distinct instances of rolling, compared to roughly 1.

I cannot imagine this is what they'd do to buff terminators, it's so minor and creates ridiculous overhead.

Because with the Armor Save Modifiers the Terminator can make saves it presently cant in standard 40k. Like you can make saves vs Meltaguns and Thunder Hammers with a 3+ on 2d6 when those weapons have a -5 Modifier.

So you'd have an 8+ armor save, which you can make on 2d6.

Which is only slightly better than a 5+ invuln, or slightly worse than a 4+ invuln. Meaning you add an insane amount of extra rolling for an almost imperceptible change. Test it: roll 20 dice, and count up your fails. Now, roll 2 dice at a time, 20 times. Compare how long it takes.

Make it take longer if what people were saying about Invulns is how it works (i never played 2e or Necromunda) and they get the armor save and Invuln.

I'd like to see them ditch the use of silly code words and special rules like "Rend", etc.

 gummyofallbears wrote:
For what it counts for, I still think the 8th ed. rumors are a joke.

What, the ones that GW themselves talked publicly about at Adepticon, or some other rumours?

 Azreal13 wrote:

 gummyofallbears wrote:
For what it counts for, I still think the 8th ed. rumors are a joke.

What, the ones that GW themselves talked publicly about at Adepticon, or some other rumours?

Yes, Games Workshop. A company that has pulled April Fools jokes on its customers every year for as long as I can remember. That's in 2 days by the way.
Cheeky Brits

-

But Adepticon was last weekend?

You're seriously trying to imply that conducting multiple seminars at one of the largest conventions in the US, two weeks prior to April 1st, is the same as bashing out a "How to roll Citadel Dice" article on the website?

 Azreal13 wrote:
But Adepticon was last weekend?

You're seriously trying to imply that conducting multiple seminars at one of the largest conventions in the US, two weeks prior to April 1st, is the same as bashing out a "How to roll Citadel Dice" article on the website?

I just find it ridiculous that GW would announce the new 40k editions - with almost the exact same changes as AOS, a ridiculously unpopular system until recently.

Not to mention the ridiculous video on a similar subject released on the same day.

Interesting rationale.

You do realise you finding anything ridiculous does absolutely nothing to alter the reality of the situation? The reality being that GW have used an official platform to not only tacitly confirm that a new edition is happening but also some of the changes they're looking to implement?

I mean, I get when people are dubious when a source outside of GW like Hastings or Atia talks about things, despite it being almost wilfully ignorant to do so, given their track records, but to see the same attitude when GW themselves do so? That takes a special sort of mindset.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Interesting rationale.

You do realise you finding anything ridiculous does absolutely nothing to alter the reality of the situation? The reality being that GW have used an official platform to not only tacitly confirm that a new edition is happening but also some of the changes they're looking to implement?

I mean, I get when people are dubious when a source outside of GW like Hastings or Atia talks about things, despite it being almost wilfully ignorant to do so, given their track records, but to see the same attitude when GW themselves do so? That takes a special sort of mindset.

Well, some of it might definitely be hope.

I think we all know GW is stupid, but no company whatsoever releases a video making fun of Age of Sigmar and an article, saying that they are turning their cash cow, into something similar to Age of Sigmar as a serious move.

Maybe they just released all this so close together and in such a weird way that they could wait for a week and see how people reacted, and then change their end result to that. IE: People hate it - "oh it was just a joke everyone ya see?" People like it - "AGE OF THE EMPEROR"

And I think the ridiculousness isn't that they confirmed the edition - literally we all knew a new edition would come out, we didn't know when but it would eventually.

Good lord, that's some mental gymnastics right there.

 gummyofallbears wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Interesting rationale.

You do realise you finding anything ridiculous does absolutely nothing to alter the reality of the situation? The reality being that GW have used an official platform to not only tacitly confirm that a new edition is happening but also some of the changes they're looking to implement?

I mean, I get when people are dubious when a source outside of GW like Hastings or Atia talks about things, despite it being almost wilfully ignorant to do so, given their track records, but to see the same attitude when GW themselves do so? That takes a special sort of mindset.

Well, some of it might definitely be hope.

I think we all know GW is stupid, but no company whatsoever releases a video making fun of Age of Sigmar and an article, saying that they are turning their cash cow, into something similar to Age of Sigmar as a serious move.

Maybe they just released all this so close together and in such a weird way that they could wait for a week and see how people reacted, and then change their end result to that. IE: People hate it - "oh it was just a joke everyone ya see?" People like it - "AGE OF THE EMPEROR"

And I think the ridiculousness isn't that they confirmed the edition - literally we all knew a new edition would come out, we didn't know when but it would eventually.

I fail to see how they were making fun of Age of Sigmar in the video unless you are referring to them making fun of how many square bases they most likely have left over. They weren't making fun of the mechanics, nor the lore, nor the models of AoS. They were making fun of square bases and, really, poking fun at the fanbase for how rabidly they clutch to any little rumor (the thunderhawk box in the background shown before the rumors confirmed it).

It's also making fun of people like you who take things too seriously. They are clearly having more fun with their marketing and community relations which is fantastic. This, along with the great new models coming out and them saying clearly that they are working with the community on the rules for 8th shows GW isn't so stupid anymore.